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Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

I've searched but can't find a 6th tactica thread for Daemons.

Are they so unloved?

I'm planning on starting one early next year, so any advice, or even a link to a thread I may have missed most welcome.

I'm not looking to play competitively, but neither do I find being annihilated all that fun, I like an effective list, but also variety and good modelling and painting options are high on my list too.

I'm currently thinking a core of Khorne units, with a dash of Nurgle and cherry picking the more effective Slaanesh and Tzeentch units to taste.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Stephens City, VA

 azreal13 wrote:
I've searched but can't find a 6th tactica thread for Daemons.

Are they so unloved?

I'm planning on starting one early next year, so any advice, or even a link to a thread I may have missed most welcome.

I'm not looking to play competitively, but neither do I find being annihilated all that fun, I like an effective list, but also variety and good modelling and painting options are high on my list too.

I'm currently thinking a core of Khorne units, with a dash of Nurgle and cherry picking the more effective Slaanesh and Tzeentch units to taste.


From what I've seen they're getting a codex possibly January. Also most of the Khorne units are bad atm.

   
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I've been seeing a few threads about the Epydimus (sp?) combo with CSM. I'm not sure what they're rumored to get. They already got a few new models and if I remember right they are expecting a WD dex.

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
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Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Yeah, I'd heard about a possible update, the idea has been fermenting for more than a year, but I figured that may be a catalyst to it.

Thanks for your response, but I could really use more info than 'bad.' I thought on first glance that Thirsters, Letters and Bloodcrushers look half decent. Hounds, meh.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Connecticut

In the US daemons are doing very well in the tourney scene.

4 out of 8 of the FoB top bracket were daemons I hear. I would start with looking at what they brought.
   
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Stephens City, VA

 azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, I'd heard about a possible update, the idea has been fermenting for more than a year, but I figured that may be a catalyst to it.

Thanks for your response, but I could really use more info than 'bad.' I thought on first glance that Thirsters, Letters and Bloodcrushers look half decent. Hounds, meh.


Crushers are slow and are now AP3. Not too terrible but compared to what they could do, vs what they do now.
In an army without tanks, that means Crushers will take all those shots. AP1-2 is all more common now especially plasma.

Bloodletters are quite aweful. They have no shooting and only a 5++. They get minced by lasguns and anything else.

Thirsters are a pretty good Hammer unit. I actually have found it worthwhile to give it the Str7 ap2 Shooting upgrade.
Vector Strike and shoot.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
 labmouse42 wrote:
In the US daemons are doing very well in the tourney scene.

4 out of 8 of the FoB top bracket were daemons I hear. I would start with looking at what they brought.


Also look at how that tournament was won. It wasn't your typical style. Favored the highly agressive lists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/03 22:58:56


   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine





Ohio

There was a WD update. Flamers are pretty amazing from what I hear.

6th edition hurt some stuff for daemons I.e. overwatch on your assaulting units, dropping FNP to a 5+. Though on the flip side I'd say they got a bigger buff since the assault range is now 2D6, FMC, Soul Grinders have an invuln save, and the deepstrike mishap table is more forgiving than it was in 5th.

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Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
 azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, I'd heard about a possible update, the idea has been fermenting for more than a year, but I figured that may be a catalyst to it.

Thanks for your response, but I could really use more info than 'bad.' I thought on first glance that Thirsters, Letters and Bloodcrushers look half decent. Hounds, meh.


Crushers are slow and are now AP3. Not too terrible but compared to what they could do, vs what they do now.
In an army without tanks, that means Crushers will take all those shots. AP1-2 is all more common now especially plasma.

Bloodletters are quite aweful. They have no shooting and only a 5++. They get minced by lasguns and anything else.

Thirsters are a pretty good Hammer unit. I actually have found it worthwhile to give it the Str7 ap2 Shooting upgrade.
Vector Strike and shoot


Much more useful, thanks. Although isn't the speed of Crushers somewhat of a secondary consideration when they deep strike in your face?

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Connecticut

I've been using a fatecrusher with flamers/screamers thus far in 6th. I've found the crushers to still be excellent in 6th.
As mentioned they are not as good, but they are still pretty darn good.
   
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Daemons on their own rely very heavily on Reserves rolls and Deep Strike scattering; if you get your troops onto the field on time where you want them you'll usually win since your soldiers outperform everyone in close combat, otherwise you'll come on piecemeal and get squashed at range. 6e helped Daemons a lot by making Reserves more reliable, though.

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Eaton Rapids, MI

From experience in a few local tourneys: Daemons are good again.
The reason: The WD update.

Screamers and Flamers make the list and they are some tough nuts to crack.

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Stephens City, VA

 labmouse42 wrote:
I've been using a fatecrusher with flamers/screamers thus far in 6th. I've found the crushers to still be excellent in 6th.
As mentioned they are not as good, but they are still pretty darn good.


I switched up to, pretty sure this is the list atm

Fate
Blood

3x 5 man Plague
1x5man horror+changeling

2x5 Flamers

2xDP TZ Gaze/Bolt Wings
1xDP Nurg Breath/Gaze Wings

   
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





Limerick

Savageconvoy wrote: if I remember right they are expecting a WD dex.


Well that's a silly idea that was most certainly never rumoured as far as I saw.

Read Bloghammer!

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My Eldar plog

Nosebiter wrote:
Codex Space Marine is renamed as Codex Counts As Because I Dont Like To Loose And Gw Hates My Army.
 
   
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Stephens City, VA

 azreal13 wrote:
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
 azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, I'd heard about a possible update, the idea has been fermenting for more than a year, but I figured that may be a catalyst to it.

Thanks for your response, but I could really use more info than 'bad.' I thought on first glance that Thirsters, Letters and Bloodcrushers look half decent. Hounds, meh.


Crushers are slow and are now AP3. Not too terrible but compared to what they could do, vs what they do now.
In an army without tanks, that means Crushers will take all those shots. AP1-2 is all more common now especially plasma.

Bloodletters are quite aweful. They have no shooting and only a 5++. They get minced by lasguns and anything else.

Thirsters are a pretty good Hammer unit. I actually have found it worthwhile to give it the Str7 ap2 Shooting upgrade.
Vector Strike and shoot


Much more useful, thanks. Although isn't the speed of Crushers somewhat of a secondary consideration when they deep strike in your face?


In their face to an extent. Smart players bubblewrap and multilayer. Assaulting with a one minded unit like crushers is hurt by 6th ed.

   
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Syracuse, NY

This is so muhc more complex for why Daemons are doing well in 6th than just a WD update. There are a lot of changes that together have made Daemons strong - the WD update just put them over the top by undercosting those models given their abilities. Here is why Daemons are good:

1 - Mishap table more forgiving with a 2+ save against being destroyed (up from 3+)

2 - Vehicles are WS 0 or WS 1 when being charged to make putting hits into them easier

3 - Hull points enable vehicles to be more easily glanced to death (a Rhino used to require an average of 3 Immobilized/Weapon Destroyed results or 9 glances to wreck - they now take 3)

3a - The emergence of hull points has led to more armys eschewing transports to enable Daemons to alpha strike infantry models

4 - Units cannot charge out a vehicles - preventing flamers/Horrors or other units from being assaulted after they wreck a vehicle

5 - Reserves come in on a 3+/3+ and then automatically so all Daemons arrive by Turn 4 instead of Turn 5

6 - Fearless is insanely good now with no combat resolution hit

More specific to the WD update - Screamers and Flamers would be good under 5th ed rules but the update to these two items is huge:

7 - Turbo Boost allowed after a Deep Strike to reposition units

8 - Overwatch Wall of Death brutal when used by Flamers


Add in some other random buffs like causing Fear, 5++ to Soul Grinders, Flyers Swooping and random charge ranges increasing the mean charge distance. Other buffs include Cavalry/Beasts moving 12" in the movement phase to be more mobile and you have a huge number of aspects that combine together to make Daemons stronger.

The ony hit they took (really) is that cover from area terrain/units is 5+ instead of 4+. This could be significant, but the rest of the changes really favor Daemons s heavily it does not matter.

I have played Daemons in RTT's and GT's for the last 3 years - they feel much stronger now than they did in 5th edition. In some cases units like flamers or Screamers can even win the game turn 1. On top of everything else, most people have no idea how to play against them and they dodge most of the meta decisions made by other armies because of their unique rules.

Also, Crushers remain excellent in spite of what people say. The only difference to them is that Flamers are so good now it is hard not to take at least 1 unit. If you DS close with your crushers - you will get the charge in spite of being slow and their large footprint and the new DS rules lets you do so. This is still a MEQ game at the end of the day.

Daemons Blog - The Mandulian Chapel 
   
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Connecticut

This is a quick summary of the overall strategy that I've been using to good effect, and Ill also discuss some general tactics.
These are all my experiences, and others may disagree. I hope this helps you get started.

Overall Strategy
Pure Daemons are a tabling army. Your troops suck, and you have excellent hard-hitting units. This combination means that your are hiding your troops and you use your other models to remove all enemy models.

Daemons are a fairly fast army. The new WD updates give fast moving units which assist greatly with contesting/tying up units.
This helps to give you some flexability.

Daemons have great FMC options. They can bring 5 FMCs in a single force org, and unlike the 'nid FMCs the CD ones have invlun saves. I have found that many FMCs just don't kill enough to justify their point cost in a tabling army.

You can add in allied IG/CSM troops to make your army less of a tabling army and more of an objective army. I've done this a few times with varied success. Sometimes the allies were useless, and other times they won me the game.


Tactics
I play daemons as a pressure army. The goal is to force my opponent to choose between shooting either this really dangerous unit, or that really dangerous unit. If they don't address all units, then on the next turn they will be in trouble.

One way that I do this is to drop the bloodcrushers, fateweaver, and flamers right in front of someone. The flamers can obliterate 2 squads per turn, and the crushers will faceroll most units, so they need to address all the issues.

As mentioned, I view daemons as a tabling army, so play aggressively. Don't be afraid to drop your squad of flamers close to enemy models so you can get all your flame shots off.


Fateweaver
This model used to be called 'auto-include', yet with the WD update I think hes not as critical to bring as he used to be. Fateweaver is still an excellent unit, but your army can do fine without him.

Fateweavers main advantage is that he gives a force multiplier to your saves.
a 5 + is 67% better (56% to 33%)
a 4+ is 50% better (75% to 50%)
a 3+ is 33% better (89% to 67%)
and a 2+ is 17% better (97% to 83%)


What this means on a practical level is increased durability of units. This mathhammer shows STR 5 psybolt ammo shooting at flamers.
2*(3/2)*(3/2)*(3/2)*9 = 60.75 stormbolter shots to kill 9 flamers, assuming balistic skill of 4 and psybolt ammo for a strength 5 hit.

2/3 = 0.667 chance of not saving, with fateweaver support it becomes 0.444, inverting that becomes 2.252

2*(3/2)*(3/2)*(2.252)*9= 91.2 shots to kill 9 flamers, assuming balistic skill of 4 and psybolt ammo for S5 and fateweaver granting a reroll.
So that unit of flamers that has one model close to fateweaver is 50% more resilient than otherwise. A squad of screamers near fateweaver are twice as resilient. A squad of bloodcrushers near fateweaver are pretty much immune to anything that gives a normal save.


Bloodthirster
A BT makes an excellent sniper unit. I don't mean that he will shoot out enemy models, I mean that as in he is excellent for targeting a specific unit you want to hit. Lets say that your opponent has a squad of long fangs/havocs that you need to remove. The BT can swoop down near them and then assault the long fangs/havocs on the following turn.

The BT excells at killing smaller units, or even 10 man TAC squads, but fails vs. high quality dedicated assault units such as TH/SS terminators or Necron Wraiths.


Skulltaker
This is an excellent model to bring in games. Skulltaker on a Juggernaut is an excellent dueling IC. If you are bringing bloodcrushers bring him and he will do some heavy lifting for you.

Skulltakers biggest advantage is that he rends on a 4+ and inflicts instant death on a rend. This means most ICs without eternal warrior will be punked hard by him. Skulltaker will get crushed by the big hitter ICs with EW. Expect him to not do nearly as well vs Calgar, Abbadon, a black mace DP, or Draigo.

The other advantage skulltaker has is that he can destroy most vehicles on his own. Don't be afraid to seperate him to charge that LRBT when it suits your needs. Rending on a 4+ means that half his hits will be STR 12-14 for purposes of AV penetration.

This is an example of when my skulltaker was chewed alive at BFS. It was a hive tyrant with iron arm. Skulltaker was crushed like a bug before had a chance to ID her.



Masque
I've been bringing her more often lately. With Lash gone, Pavane is now the only way you can move enemy models. I enjoy being able to group enemy models so my flamers get the best shot lineup possible.

If she is near fateweaver shes is nearly invlunerable to shooting.

Finally, if she is assaulted, don't forget to use your Pavane in overwatch. If you hit, you can move the enemy models back d6" before they roll the dice to see how far they charge. Yes, I have used this to put models in terrain forcing them to roll 3d6" and pushing them back 5".


Bloodcrushers
These are still excellent units, and for 320 points taking 8 of them is very strong. The advantage crushers give is they have a huge footprint, which means they can threaten multiple units at once.

Take this screenshot from a game I had at BFS. By dropping the crushers there, they were able to threaten a total of 4 units. The CSM squad, the havocs, and both units of oblits.


In the assault, crushers deliver a huge number of attacks. I've used them to overwhelm Avatars, TH/SS terminators, Necron lords, etc. 8 crushers will deliver 24 AP 3 attacks that usually hit and wound on 3s. Needless to say this makes MEQ units evaporate, but also will kill 1.777 terminators an assault round.

The other role crushers do for me is they relieve pressure on my flamers. A smart CSM player will sacrifice a small unit to eat the overwatch, then assault a squad of flamers and tie them up. The crushers give me a force that can un-tarpit any squad of flamers.


Flamers
These units are your bread and butter models, and are a tie up for the best unit in the codex. At 23 points a model, they bring a huge amount of firepower. 9 of them can destroy most units in the game - be it vehicles or infantry.

When dropping flamers, don't forget they have guns as well. Each flamer still gets three BS 4 shots. If some of the flamers shoot the flame template, the others can still shoot their guns if your out of range.

I bring large squads of flamers, this is because even 3 flamers can be a significant threat to most units. This means that my opponent has to dedicate attention to them until the squad is destroyed.

When dropping flamers, drop them in a pyramid pattern shown in this image. This gives you the most templates you can drop the turn you drop it. The guy I was playing with in this match with the awesome 'aliens' army showed me how to do it. If you drop 9 flamers, you will be able to use the template with 7 of them (and shoot the guns with the other 2)

Look carefully as the drop pattern. 7 of them form the first ring, then 2 more are placed. One is placed on the side, and the other is placed at the front of the circle. This is how you make the 'pyramid' shape.



Screamers
This is the other new go-to unit for the daemons codex, and is arguably one of the best units in the game.

Screamers can fly 24" over a target and do d3 hits when they do so. This gives them a 'shooting attack' that's much better than MEQ squads. 8 screamers, for example, can expect do hit 16 times. They can even do this on the turn they arrive.

Screamers also have 4 STR 5 AP2 attacks when charging. They can chew through anything that gives your crushers a lot of problems. Since they have armorbane they can also chew through any enemy armor.

Simply put, they are very fast, and have the tools to deal with any enemy unit in the game.

When assauting with screamers, if you can assault with another squad first you can save a lot of attacks on your screamers. Take this image -- I assaulted with my PGs and then assaulted with the screamers. The end result was that most of the CSMs were locked in base to base with PGs, and my screamers were only touching 2 of them. This limited the attacks vs the screamers, but the screamers were still able to deliver all their attacks to the CSM.



Plaguebearers
This is the Achilles' heel of the daemons list. Your troops suck, hard. Some people talk about using horrors so they can get a little shooting, but I find horrors are extremely fragile. PGs are cheaper and tougher, and still fill the same role of objective camping -- so I use them.

These guys can also earn their keep. I've used them to assault many times in the past. See how in this game, I had moved them from an objective to assault along with my bloodcrushers. Just because they are there to hold objectives does not mean they need to be the objectives on your side of the board! Sometimes you want to camp the objectives on the enemy's corpse.



Daemon Princes
I used these a lot when the codex came out, but I have found that they generally cost a bit more than they kill. As mentioned, in an army designed to table, its not really the best kind of unit.

If your taking a DP, I like to take slaanesh for Pavane, Aura, and Musk. With hit and run they can be very hard to tie up. It also gives you a mobile Pavane. Also take breath of chaos, of course.


Seeker Chariots
I think these are the 3rd best unit in the codex, and have missed notice by most players. At 40 points a model they are cheap, and they deliver a heck of a punch.

Like screamers they are fast and able to move 12" after they deep strike. Moving 12", having fleeting, and being able to flat out 12" gives them the ability to be in assault range on the turn after they move in. This also means you can deep strike them in a safe location.

When they assault, you can expect 7 impact hits, and 5 more attacks from the exaulted alluress. To get that same effect, you would need to have 5 daemonettes assaulting (due to the fact that the impact hits don't need to roll to hit). So, in effect, for a 40 point model you are getting 70 points of daemonette assault damage.

What kind of damage can you expect to do with this? With a squad of 3 seeker chariots, I have wiped out terminators before they had a chance to swing. I have obliterated squads of MEQ. I have destroyed DE warrior squads. I've used them to open up rhinos and Necron annihilation barges.

Don't forget that their 5+ invlun can be used if they suffer an immobolized result when moving over terrain.

The final thing to mention is that AV11 is much tougher than T3. When your comparing them to daemonettes, the chariots are significantly better. They are immune to small arms fire, and thus unlike daemonettes, overwatch means nearly nothing to them.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/11/04 12:28:23


 
   
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The only thing I disagree with is deamons needing to be a tabling army. Sure our troops suck, but allied troops can be good. So far I've had very good results from mixing deamons with foot IG.

Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.


 
   
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Connecticut

Thats a valid point. I've played a number of games with IG allies with mixed results. They can be great objective campers.

I've been using them in a bastion or in chimeras behind an aegis wall though, not on foot. I've found them to get shot to bits far to often, as they wind up eating an alpha strike since my daemons all start in reserve.

Both of those solutions generally ensure they are alive until the end of turn 1
   
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Where can one find these changes made to Daemons?
   
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Stephens City, VA

 Dragon2439 wrote:
Where can one find these changes made to Daemons?


From a White Dwarf update from August? IIRC

   
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Tampa, FL

WD #392(UK)/#391 (US) has the Daemon update.

 
   
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In your squads, doing the chainsword tango

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Bloodletters are quite aweful. They have no shooting and only a 5++. They get minced by lasguns and anything else.

Yeah bloodletters are dead. AP3 weapons hurt, but the change to furious charge just killed them. T4 5++ means they die like flies, but with a big block of them they could make it into the enemy lines and murder things hard. I've had 5 of 15 survive and make it to combat to eat 38 marines in a game! swinging first one the charge with lots of power weapons murdered marines, especially the ones without true grit. But now swinging simultaneously leaves them exposed to alot of hits they simply did not have to take in 5th. Bloodletters are pretty terrible atm.

   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Ok, to keep the conversation going (thanks for all the input so far)

What do people think are optimal unit sizes? Aside from the usual restriction of points, daemons have to consider their deep strike footprint, and more forgiving or no, mishaps still ideally need to be avoided.

Secondly, Daemonettes. I see good I, a good number of attacks, grenades and rending as a pretty sound start, but is T3 just too much of a compromise?

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Syracuse, NY

 azreal13 wrote:
Ok, to keep the conversation going (thanks for all the input so far)

What do people think are optimal unit sizes? Aside from the usual restriction of points, daemons have to consider their deep strike footprint, and more forgiving or no, mishaps still ideally need to be avoided.

Secondly, Daemonettes. I see good I, a good number of attacks, grenades and rending as a pretty sound start, but is T3 just too much of a compromise?


A large Deepstrike footprint is actually better in man cases. Once you get past the first ring for units like Bloodcrushers or Seekers you have a ton of flexibility to add or subtract inches from the deep strike. That means you can deep strike a bit further back and still be in position to respond when you scatter.

If you play Daemons trying to avoid DS mishaps at all costs - you will lose with Daemons. It is just infesiable to leave a 12" radius circle (more with the size of the unit) around a unit and put them in a position to be effective.


I ran a unit of 18 Daemonettes in a tournament a month ago - it was hard to evaluate them. They committed suicide on a unit of 10 GK terminators one game to lock them in place, in the other two they ripped apart some Leman Russes (rending CC attacks are much better with the vehicle changes and Hull Points) but probably did not pay back their cost. I want to like them, they are very very fast now but the loss of widespread 4+ cover has hurt them a bit.

Daemons Blog - The Mandulian Chapel 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






It is going to be tough to evaluate daemons right now. So much depends on missions and cover at tournaments when playing daemons that results tend to be skewed. What I expect to see is armies preparing better for flamers and screamers. I think they took players by surprise but actually they are not that hard to defend against. What I expect to see is daemon lists with allies being better than pure daemons. Daemons just cannot shoot in an edition that favors shooting. I expect also to see people trying out grinders again now. Soul grinders have the 5+ inv. I expect to see them spammed with Fateweaver. Of course they will have to be paired with either screamers or fiends to prevent them from being tied up in combat. But daemons still have their traditional issues. DSing is always a risk, getting your preferred wave is never assured, they have very little shooting support, the troops are just not that good, FMCs are flyers - they are vulnerable, etc., etc. I will not deny they have been doing great of late. But it's still early 6ed. I concur that a good sized DS footprint can be useful. But with the right squads (eg., 'Crushers or a large PB squad to hold the center of the table).

- I play daemons regularly ...

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b162/pheelixkat/Chaos/ --- just some of my models as I'm redoing my flamers and screamers and building some grinders.

I'm not just basing opinions on theory but on results from many games. They definitely can overrun some lists but they struggle against others. I'm a firm believer in adding either IG or CSM support to my daemons so I have a more balanced and flexible list. I have more than enough models to play 2500 - 3000 points of just daemons but I am lately adding CSM to my lists.

 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw




Stephens City, VA

 felixcat wrote:

It is going to be tough to evaluate daemons right now. So much depends on missions and cover at tournaments when playing daemons that results tend to be skewed. What I expect to see is armies preparing better for flamers and screamers. I think they took players by surprise but actually they are not that hard to defend against. What I expect to see is daemon lists with allies being better than pure daemons. Daemons just cannot shoot in an edition that favors shooting. I expect also to see people trying out grinders again now. Soul grinders have the 5+ inv. I expect to see them spammed with Fateweaver. Of course they will have to be paired with either screamers or fiends to prevent them from being tied up in combat. But daemons still have their traditional issues. DSing is always a risk, getting your preferred wave is never assured, they have very little shooting support, the troops are just not that good, FMCs are flyers - they are vulnerable, etc., etc. I will not deny they have been doing great of late. But it's still early 6ed. I concur that a good sized DS footprint can be useful. But with the right squads (eg., 'Crushers or a large PB squad to hold the center of the table).

- I play daemons regularly ...

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b162/pheelixkat/Chaos/ --- just some of my models as I'm redoing my flamers and screamers and building some grinders.

I'm not just basing opinions on theory but on results from many games. They definitely can overrun some lists but they struggle against others. I'm a firm believer in adding either IG or CSM support to my daemons so I have a more balanced and flexible list. I have more than enough models to play 2500 - 3000 points of just daemons but I am lately adding CSM to my lists.


True, albeit it will depend on your meta and how slow their learning curve is.

Playing a Flying Circus with Flamers and PB's as troops atm.

All the FMC's give the "locals" so many problems as they are still packing almost nothing but blasts of all shapes and sizes

   
Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes




Virginia

 labmouse42 wrote:

Skulltaker
This is an excellent model to bring in games. Skulltaker on a Juggernaut is an excellent dueling IC. If you are bringing bloodcrushers bring him and he will do some heavy lifting for you.

Skulltakers biggest advantage is that he rends on a 4+ and inflicts instant death on a rend. This means most ICs without eternal warrior will be punked hard by him. Skulltaker will get crushed by the big hitter ICs with EW. Expect him to not do nearly as well vs Calgar, Abbadon, a black mace DP, or Draigo.

The other advantage skulltaker has is that he can destroy most vehicles on his own. Don't be afraid to seperate him to charge that LRBT when it suits your needs. Rending on a 4+ means that half his hits will be STR 12-14 for purposes of AV penetration.




Skulltaker only rends on a 4+ against non-vehicle models. He rends on a regular 6 against vehicle models
   
 
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