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 TheCaptain wrote:


Stormies can deep strike, and double special weapons.

Marines have ATSKNF, combat tactics and combat squads, can take heavy weapons and can score.
This is a pointless divergence, my initial response was more complaining that storm troopers have 18" rage weapon which I why I can't stand them. A rile that has a shorter rapid fire range than a land raider hull? Pretty silly.

Getting back on topic, these are a few final tips I would give the OP.

1.Meltas, plasmas, autocannons, and lascannons are worth their weight in gold on your infantry. Learn how to convert them or pick em up from bitz sellers, but make sure you have a healthy amount of all 4. They are what makes our infantry scary to other armies, because even though lasguns can pick up the odd wound, usually only conscripts are putting out enough shots to guarantee results.

2. Start off small, IG is a very confusing army at first glance, ESPECIALLY if you're running platoons. Keep your games under 1k for a while and learn the in's and outs of your army. Remember things like orders (move, orders, shoot, assault. Say that until you know it by heart) 2" spacing, bubble wrapping tanks, and keeping your front armor facing the enemy at all times. big games have a lot going on and its all too easy to just sit there and roll dice until its over with, and you wont learn anything from that.

3. Finally, try every unit in the codex at least once, even if it's just in a friendly game. You never know what might be the perfect unit for your strategy may be, and you'll never know until you give them a shot. Some things are obviously trash (ratlings for example) but until you use them. you'll never know. Several things that IG players would have laughed at last edition are really good now, and we would have never found out if we hadnt messed around and tried new units out.

I find it funny that people look down on Grenade Launchers and Heavy Bolters. I've had nothing but success with both weapons, and find them invaluable for armor save attrition and light vehicle hunting.

To the OP: The Imperial Guard can be one of the most diverse armies in Warhammer 40k, and the further that you get from the power units, the more involved that your strategy will become. They are a shooting army (Guard have some truly dire close combat obtions available to them), so they can easily conform to a static, gunline type army. On the other hand, they also have access to a tremendous amount of transports (not to mention what is arguably the best flyer in the game), so they can also be played as a highly mobile force.

Honestly, MrMoustaffa's list of tips really do have the right of it. Don't be afraid to try out different units or different builds, even if people insist that those options are "bad." You'll figure out pretty quickly what works for you and what doesn't, and when you do, you'll be able to carve out your own particular variation on the Imperial Guard.

That's kind of the point, to make things just imbalanced enough to create a meta game, but if something is so overpowered, it becomes a no-brainer choice to auto-take and the metagame becomes much more shallow.


But w/e

Back to the topic:

Yea, weapons weapons weapons. Try them all out and see what works for you and your current models.

I really like tanks, thus that is the main reason for chosing to start an IG army. I would like to run an all mech army. Any suggestions or pointers for that?

I generated a 2000 list that consists of 2 CCS, 1 Psyker Battle Squad, Veterans, PCS and IS. Each unit is in a Chimera for a total of 8 Chimeras, 3 Vendettas, and 3 Griffons.

Based on the previous posts, I may take out the PBS due to the fact I won't have 3.

Thoughts?

 amrogers3 wrote:
I really like tanks, thus that is the main reason for chosing to start an IG army. I would like to run an all mech army. Any suggestions or pointers for that?

I generated a 2000 list that consists of 2 CCS, 1 Psyker Battle Squad, Veterans, PCS and IS. Each unit is in a Chimera for a total of 8 Chimeras, 3 Vendettas, and 3 Griffons.

Based on the previous posts, I may take out the PBS due to the fact I won't have 3.

Thoughts?

That just made my day.

You have learned well, grasshopper.

Obviously, you don't HAVE to take 3 of everything, but it certainly helps. 3 pysker battle squads would probably be a bit overkill for example.

Also, kind of curious, but how do you only have 8 chimeras at 2k? I would think with a platoon thrown in you could get much higher. Do you have a few vet squads riding in the vendettas OP? That would make sense.

I play foot guard so I cant help you much with all Mech.

just send in wave after wave of expendable infantry supported by artillery (not manticores, way too unpredictable, basilisks/griffons/hydras instead) then veterans with plasma and/or meltas in valkyrie/vendetta gunships. its a common tactic and someones bound to say something about that but if its not broke then dont fix it.....

 MrMoustaffa wrote:


Also, kind of curious, but how do you only have 8 chimeras at 2k? I would think with a platoon thrown in you could get much higher. Do you have a few vet squads riding in the vendettas OP? That would make sense.

Yes, I have several Vet squads in Chimeras with Melta/plas, I can't remember which. I think melta.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:


Also, kind of curious, but how do you only have 8 chimeras at 2k?

This could also become the motto of the Imperial Guard.

 amrogers3 wrote:

Based on the previous posts, I may take out the PBS due to the fact I won't have 3.

This guy gets it.

I'm actually surprised to see peoople saying that you shouldn't take Marbo. If I may ask, could you please tell us why?

People either love him or hate him. He can do insane damage, or whiff terribly. Smart placement fixes this most of the time, but like everything else in this game, your dice will do everything in their power to screw you over at times.

Most players have a well earned hatred for him, as it seems like every player has that one story where he popped up and kicked some faces in. He forces your opponent to have to deploy differently, hide his important upgrades in the center of squads, or accept the fact that no matter what he does, something is about to have a really bad day. The fact that he remains a threat after that demo charge is chucked also can disrupt your opponent's following shooting phase as well. He can draw insane amounts of fire, especially for what's essentially a really scary guardsman.

Unless you face opponents who are very used to fighting IG, or are IG players themselves, you can't go wrong with him. He takes some practice, but i'd say he's worth it. Even against people that are used to fighting him, he can still do damage. Basically, give him a try. He's hilarious to use, Rambo incarnate, and cheap to add to an army (as you only need one guardsman model). Try him out sometime.

Marbo is even better in 6th edition than he was in 5th, and he was crazy good in 5th. He is a denial unit, which means he gives you Linebreaker, as well as contesting an objective. Since he has stealth, you can bring him on the board in cover, way back there in the corner, and just smile as your opponent has to bring part of his offensive output to bear on a 65 point guardsmen hiding in the bushes with his face painted. And he will still have his demo charge, in case someone is foolish enough to get close. It's not as glorious as the suicide demo heave, but it can be a very effective strategy.

Finally, you will see a lot of people running the numbers on him. Numbers matter, a lot, just ask Nate Silver, but a lot of 40k is psychological. Marbo is one of the ultimate psychological weapons. I've run across very few players who just ignore him.

loner wrote:I'm actually surprised to see peoople saying that you shouldn't take Marbo. If I may ask, could you please tell us why?

Because a vast majority of the time, you're spending 65 points for what basically amounts to a single earthshaker cannon shot. Really, you're wasting an elites slot on a heavy support choice, and you're doing it rather poorly, as he's pretty expensive for one shot. If what you want is that specific kind of pie plates, just take a medusa. For only twice as expensive, you get a lot more shots, and the option to be REALLY good against vehicles.

Secondly, most opponents will figure marbo out pretty quickly. They're only going to need to be surprised roughly once to figure out how to keep their troops spread out and in cover. Once that happens, marbo's offensive effectiveness plummets.

Strategically, he's not all that great either. Yes, he can show up and claim linebreaker, but if that's what's going to get you the win, then your opponent will kill him. Likewise, he's capable of contesting an objective, for basically one turn. He's just a guardsman. He's not that difficult to kill. He's not scoring either, so it's not like he's really having much of an impact other than by what he kills. Worse, on 1/6th of the missions, he's basically giving away free KP.

Marbo is over rated because everybody remembers those one or two times when he showed up and was exceedingly awesome, and then forget all of the other times he shows up and is a waste of points. He's worth including for rule of cool, but not much else.

 Ailaros wrote:
Marbo is over rated because everybody remembers those one or two times when he showed up and was exceedingly awesome, and then forget all of the other times he shows up and is a waste of points. He's worth including for rule of cool, but not much else.

While I do agree that Marbo is somewhat overrated, I think that you're selling him a little bit short. In the hands of an experienced player, Marbo has tremendous potential to function as a spoiler. Has your opponent advanced too far from their own lines? Then he scores you an easy VP as a linebreaker by hiding in cover. Lightly armored scoring unit holding an objective? He can contest or try to steal it from them outright with a combination of his demo charge and decent assault profile (though Overwatch makes this a bit riskier in 5th). Enemy power armor (or lighter) squad just deep struck in a threatening position? If Marbo shows up on your next turn, he can deal with them immediately.

I'm not going to pretend that he's always a reliable unit, or that he'll consitently win the game for you. But if you're aware of what he can do, you'll usually find a good place on the table from which he can make up his points and then some. The fact that he's an Elite choice, which is a classification at which the Imperial Guard is pretty thin on worthwhile units, just makes him easier to slip into the Force Organization Chart. While he's not an auto-take, I'd say that he has value beyond the rule of cool, and is never a waste of points.

Ailaros wrote:
Marbo is over rated because everybody remembers those one or two times when he showed up and was exceedingly awesome, and then forget all of the other times he shows up and is a waste of points. He's worth including for rule of cool, but not much else.

This is the cold hard truth.

beerbeard wrote:Numbers matter, a lot, just ask Nate Silver, but a lot of 40k is psychological. Marbo is one of the ultimate psychological weapons.

No good player is going to be psychologically affected by anything you throw at them.

SkaerKrow wrote:In the hands of an experienced player, Marbo has tremendous potential to function as a spoiler.

Its moreso "in the hands of a player versus someone who has never seen Marbo used."

After you are Marbo'd once, you learn.

 TheCaptain wrote:


This is the cold hard truth.

It's funny how Marbo can take over any discussion about the IG. Everything everyone writes here is opinion, not the absolute, or should I say, "cold hard" truth. A lot of good players will tell you Marbo is a waste. A lot of other good players will tell you he is an automatic include in your list. Ultimately, YMMV. When I write a list, I put him in, and then at the end if I need points for that last autocannon or two, I consider taking him out if I think his points will be better spent elsewhere. Most of the time he stays in, and I am usually glad he did. The only auto-include is when I do one of my crazy outflanking lists with Harker, Al-Raheem, etc.

 beerbeard wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:


This is the cold hard truth.

It's funny how Marbo can take over any discussion about the IG. Everything everyone writes here is opinion, not the absolute, or should I say, "cold hard" truth.

I'm inclined to say that "Its silly to auto include Marbo" is cold hard truth.

Like Ailaros said, if you have around 150 points; Buy a heavy support choice. Don't buy Marbo, then figure out what junk to spend the other 90 points on.

I figure marbo is a points filler. Like:

"Okay, I've got a 1795 point list for this 1850 game. What can I use it on...

Oh, why not a deep striking demo charge?"

SkaerKrow wrote:In the hands of an experienced player, Marbo has tremendous potential to function as a spoiler.

Well, see, here's the problem.

The ability for marbo to be used to his maximum potential is determined by my player skill, but the ceiling for that maximum potential is determined by my opponent's player skill. This is true for basically everything, but in the case of marbo, it hurts more than most other units in the codex.

If my opponent is a putz, and clusters his troops together out in the open, then the maximum potential is really high. If my opponent is smart, he can present no good targets for marbo. No matter how high my player skill, my opponent has determined the maximum possible utility of marbo to be at a pretty low level. No matter how skilled I am, marbo is never going to do good damage against units that my opponent has properly displaced and put in cover.

Of course, the same can be said about artillery, but artillery has ways of mitigating this, like with the colossus ignoring cover and with the medusa being able to basically pen with each hit against a vehicle.

Marbo, on the other hand, is just stuck.

Marbo has only ever whiffed for me. I see him as a liability on KP missions (guard already gives up KP too easily). I have never experienced an epic moment where he was actually Rambo. He usually has his demo pack scatter right back onto himself.

If I had 65 points to spare I would rather find another 10 and field a griffon. Or even a mortar squad for 5 points less.

 Ailaros wrote:
Because a vast majority of the time, you're spending 65 points for what basically amounts to a single earthshaker cannon shot.

Except it's a single shot with AP 2, a guarantee that it arrives being shot at before it can fire, and BS 5 to make sure it lands on target. And even if it is only an earthshaker shot the Basilisk would have to fire three times to be more effective at delivering earthshaker shots (even ignoring the BS difference), and if your AV 12 open-topped vehicle dies before then it won't beat Marbo.

Secondly, most opponents will figure marbo out pretty quickly. They're only going to need to be surprised roughly once to figure out how to keep their troops spread out and in cover. Once that happens, marbo's offensive effectiveness plummets.

That was a decent counter in 5th with per-unit cover, but not in 6th with per-model cover. Sure you can make that demo charge weaker by deploying at maximum 2" coherency, but can you keep your entire unit in cover, or are you going to have to have models spread out away from the cover where I can focus fire on them? You counter Marbo, but only at the cost of badly deploying every single vulnerable unit in your list to ensure that Marbo can't kill it. I think that's worth 65 points.

And of course this plan only works with area terrain. Against something like an aegis line Marbo just shows up behind the cover and laughs at it.

Marbo is over rated because everybody remembers those one or two times when he showed up and was exceedingly awesome, and then forget all of the other times he shows up and is a waste of points.

It's way better than "one or two times". In my experience Marbo is at least 50/50 on killing enough to justify a mere 65 points.

A plus for marbo is that he costs next to nothing to scratch build where as tanks and artillery will run you a lot of cold hard cash. For those interested in saving dollars for a really cool demo charge what's the harm in that. Granted he is hit and miss but times that I have hit have far out weighted his wasted games. He can't be ignored and that is one enemy unit that is not shooting at my other tanks. Sometimes even more than one unit as I am usually gaining a 3+ cover minimum.

I do agree with you Ailaros but he does have his uses especially in a fun setting so depending on the type of player you are and what type of game you are playing he can be worth the mere 65pts to have some fun.

Quick question, what is the best you have done with a Marbo Demo charge. I took out a 200+ point sanguinar unit. from on top of a ruin. Then had a unit try to assault me and couldn't make it up to the top. Then proceeded to move out the next turn and melta bomb a vindicator. He died in the explosion but it was a good death.

Peregrine wrote:Except it's a single shot with AP 2, a guarantee that it arrives being shot at before it can fire, and BS 5 to make sure it lands on target.

Still counts as "basically amounts". Not exactly the same, but still mostly the same.

Peregrine wrote:You counter Marbo, but only at the cost of badly deploying every single vulnerable unit in your list to ensure that Marbo can't kill it. I think that's worth 65 points.

You don't need to badly deploy to counter marbo.

Even with focus fire, you're still killing only a couple models, and even then, that's when you hit, which BS5 does not guarantee.

With its single shot.

Peregrine wrote:It's way better than "one or two times". In my experience Marbo is at least 50/50 on killing enough to justify a mere 65 points.

Congratulations on being lucky with marbo.

For the rest of us, he's expensive, doesn't do much against smart opponents, and doesn't have much of a strategic impact.

skycapt44 wrote:A plus for marbo is that he costs next to nothing to scratch build

This is certainly true. That or just borrow a catachan model.

skycapt44 wrote:Quick question, what is the best you have done with a Marbo Demo charge. I took out a 200+ point sanguinar unit. from on top of a ruin. Then had a unit try to assault me and couldn't make it up to the top. Then proceeded to move out the next turn and melta bomb a vindicator. He died in the explosion but it was a good death.

Or, as I like to say...

Ailaros wrote:Marbo is over rated because everybody remembers those one or two times when he showed up and was exceedingly awesome, and then forget all of the other times he shows up and is a waste of points. He's worth including for rule of cool, but not much else.

 Ailaros wrote:
You don't need to badly deploy to counter marbo.

Even with focus fire, you're still killing only a couple models, and even then, that's when you hit, which BS5 does not guarantee.

With its single shot.

You misunderstand. I'm talking about focus fire with other units. To counter Marbo you have to deploy at maximum coherency and probably not make full use of cover with all of your units. If you don't spread everything out Marbo arrives and finds a good target. It might not be my first choice of squad to kill, but it's probably going to be enough to justify Marbo's low point cost. And if you DO deny Marbo a good target I drive my plasma vets over and focus fire on anyone that's out of cover, then repeat it with all of your other squads. By deploying to counter Marbo you might make the demo charge less effective, but you're paying for it by giving up a lot of cover saves.

Most of the time I see Marbo being used as a lone wolf, showing up in an enemy backfield with his backside hanging in the wind.

Good player will deploy Marbo in conjunction with outflanking, zooming flyers, DSing stormtroopers, etc.. When you do this you make him even more dangerous as it gives your opponent some serious choices to make even after Marbo chucks the demo charge. He still has 5+ atttacks which wound on 2+ and melta bombs. Oh yeah an AP2 pistol.

That being said I really dont take him any more. I can get a Griffon for nearly the same points or a mortar squad with 5 pts leftover. He's a fun,. frustrating unit but not something that has to be in your list.

The big reason I always recommend him to new guys though is because he's dirt cheap ($$$ wise) to make, and for a new player, that's huge. All it takes is a cool looking conversion on a normal guardsmen, and bam, you've got a Marbo.

He's a good force multiplier, and gives you something in the backfield, something new players often times desperately need, since most can't afford stormtroopers or vendetta dropped vets starting out.

He's the easiest thing to add to a starting army, and without a doubt, can be incredibly useful if you use him right. Therefore, I recommend him to new guys, if only to show how handy having units in your opponent's back field can be.

Peregrine wrote:To counter Marbo you have to deploy at maximum coherency and probably not make full use of cover with all of your units. If you don't spread everything out Marbo arrives and finds a good target. It might not be my first choice of squad to kill, but it's probably going to be enough to justify Marbo's low point cost. And if you DO deny Marbo a good target I drive my plasma vets over and focus fire on anyone that's out of cover, then repeat it with all of your other squads

But artillery can do this better. Arguably so can flamer stormies, what with being able to ignore cover saves.

Of course, Moustaffa is right, he does give you these kinds of advantages for insanely cheap modelling-wise, if not points-wise. It would be better to have marbo than NOTHING that fills this role. As a player acquires a larger model base to choose from, he can start to get phased out.

 Ailaros wrote:

But artillery can do this better. Arguably so can flamer stormies, what with being able to ignore cover saves.

But they can't do it cheaper. And I'd say a 5 man flamer stormtrooper squad couldn't, just because flamer stormtroopers can't deal with 2+ save, may scatter out of flamer range, and may mishap, among other things, and I'm even fond of running deepstriking flamers.

Also, when your opponent fires at marbo, it means your opponent is not shooting at a more valuable target. The thing about marbo is that he's so killy, even without his detpack, your opponent has to inefficiently divert some firepower to take him out. He will die, the point is to make your opponent waste firepower.

Furthermore, Marbo is brutally efficient. He just has 65 points to make back and has all the tools to do it, and if he gets ignored, well, he's still got an AP 2 pistol to take down a terminator or two.

I don't take Marbo because of that one time where he's, well, marbo, I take him because he complements my force well. I hardly rely on him to take on impossible odds all the time.

But, if you like to run larger squads of stormtroopers for some staying power, I can see why marbo could be underwhelming. Marbo's meant to weaken the enemy's lines so the rest of the army can storm through, not clear an entire flank by himself.

The IG are one of the armies you have to learn to play. There are no forgiving armor saves and to many weapons out there that negate cover saves. So what does that leave, dead guardsmen everywhere. I run the standard mech vets because I to like the tanks. It is fun to see the opponents face when at 1750 points, I field five chimeras, a exterminator, and two manti ores. The large amount of plasma and Melta guns you can throw in is the only thing that space marine players envy.

Every now and then I run some off the wall unit to just have fun and change the game a bit. Garrick and some ogryns are fun and Marbo. Marbo has done well before, and done nothing. I have at least once played him, got him on the board, and forgot about him until he was removed from the game.

I think a lot of people over exaggerate Marbo. He's really more of a fun option to include. I have found he's not reliable and everytime I take him I wish I spent those 65 points elsewhere.

I usually play 1850 - 2000 point games. I could only see using Marbo in either small games, where I feel he goes further for the points cost. Or in Apoc games where the whole point is just to have fun.