IG tactics/tricks

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**amrogers3**

syypher wrote:
Was hoping this thread would amount to some awesome tactica IG thread like the GK tactica and Vanilla SM tactica threads.

This.

**TheCaptain**

The best guard commanders (Me) don't divulge their secrets to the public.

**amrogers3**

I am trying to build a all IG mech list. Since "Weaken Resolve" is not a witchfire attack it can not be used from inside a Chimera unfortunately. Plus the fact that the Psyker Battle Squad does not have access to other powers besides the two in the IG Codex, I don't think the PSB is a efficient/effective unit for the points. What are your thoughts on the effectiveness of the PSB in a Chimera?

Also, IG does not have access to Divination which can be a potent psychic discipline. How would you supplement the IG with psychic ability? A Primarus Psyker in the Command Squad Chimera? A Primarus Psyker in the Veteran Squad Chimera?

And what powers would be most useful for IG?

**Griddlelol**

Ailaros wrote:
But marbo would be right behind the demolishers.

... who are outflanking marbo, who is right behind creed...

I think we could make some kind of perpetual motion machine out of this.

Also guard tactics 101 are covered on page 1 of this thread. Pick your target, roll your dice. Guard aren't complex, they are however really, really cool.

**TheCaptain**

amrogers3 wrote:
I am trying to build a all IG mech list. Since "Weaken Resolve" is not a witchfire attack it can not be used from inside a Chimera unfortunately. Plus the fact that the Psyker Battle Squad does not have access to other powers besides the two in the IG Codex, I don't think the PSB is a efficient/effective unit for the points. What are your thoughts on the effectiveness of the PSB in a Chimera?

Also, IG does not have access to Divination which can be a potent psychic discipline. How would you supplement the IG with psychic ability? A Primarus Psyker in the Command Squad Chimera? A Primarus Psyker in the Veteran Squad Chimera?

And what powers would be most useful for IG?

Simply put, guard psykers are crap, and our units aren't worth buying psykers unless they're big blobs.

I use a 40 man Plasmagun/Lascannon blob with a Divination Rune Priest, and its filthy-good.

But any less in that squad, and the psyker wouldn't be worth it.

Guard kinda don't improve themselves with Psykers. They improve by bringing more guns.

**Trickstick**

loner wrote:
To bring it back on topic: What do people think of Chenkov and conscripts with SITNW?

I like them, having used them in two games this week. First game they got shot up by SW a lot but then came back on to cap objectives. Lost 8-7 because I split my army up too much on turn one and lost first blood. Game two against Tau I just kept sending them forward as cover and distraction whilst I concentrated on objectives.

Oh, and I had a kill team game with Chenkov and 30 conscripts against Farsight. That was fun.

**Ailaros**

loner wrote:
To bring it back on topic: What do people think of Chenkov and conscripts with SITNW?

I love them. They're the only permanent scoring unit in the codex, and they get stronger the more your opponents try to kill them. If there were some way of taking only conscripts, and if there were some way to give them the ability to hurt tanks, then that's all I'd ever take in my entire army.

As it is, though, I've got to have most of my army dedicated to handling tanks, given how many mech players there are at my store, so I wind up sacrificing my second squad of conscripts for more AT most of the time.

**Blaggard**

Btothefnrock wrote:

Also, here is a little trick involving this that will catch MOST players off guard- Squad with 2 LR variants.

I believe the whole squad gets camo cloaks.`

**minid33**

amrogers3 wrote:
I am trying to build a all IG mech list. Since "Weaken Resolve" is not a witchfire attack it can not be used from inside a Chimera unfortunately. Plus the fact that the Psyker Battle Squad does not have access to other powers besides the two in the IG Codex, I don't think the PSB is a efficient/effective unit for the points. What are your thoughts on the effectiveness of the PSB in a Chimera?

Also, IG does not have access to Divination which can be a potent psychic discipline. How would you supplement the IG with psychic ability? A Primaris Psyker in the Command Squad Chimera? A Primaris Psyker in the Veteran Squad Chimera?

And what powers would be most useful for IG?

If you want divination, take space wolves (as I mentioned in my previous post)

The Primaris is OK at wrecking light armor and killing Toughness 3 dudes. I wouldn't really take him these days. For a few more points you can take a heavy weapon squad with auto-cannons, which I find to be more preferable. I have had some funny moments where he killed SM Heros with a force weapon (by sheer luck though). That's always a funny sight.

If you want PSBs to live long enough to earn their points, put them in ruins or an aegis line and go to ground when they get shot at. Use "Get back in the fight" orders to get them back up from your 2/3+ Cover save and keep on whaling on the enemy. I'm not really sure there are many other ways to keep them alive to weaken resolve enough to be worth their points.

As for conscripts, it's something I used to take as bubble wrap but these days bubble wrap is not very effective because your opponent can kill the dudes in his way to charge whatever you're wrapping. In an objectives game, which most games are I think this could be promising. I'll Chenkov it out (pun intended).

**amrogers3**

Another tactic I was thinking about is having a PSB with "Weaken Resolve" and having an ally assault squad that could take advantage of reduced leadership.

**kestril**

loner wrote:
To bring it back on topic: What do people think of Chenkov and conscripts with SITNW?

They are amazing at holding an objective on your board edge.

**Ailaros**

Primaris' don't have weaken resolve, that's ability only comes with PBSs. As for a strategy as a whole, there are an awful lot of "if's" in it (if the PBS passes a psychic test, if the enemy fails to deny the witch, if the ally squad rolls well for charge range, etc.) to be all that terribly reliable.

Plus, the enemy is only going to take a morale test at all if it wins the close combat, which means this is likely only working on crummy squads. Crummy squads that will likely lose a close combat straight away to an allied CC squad. The list is rather short in my mind of things that will both lose CC, and only lose by a small amount, so that weaken resolve could be useful.

And the reduced leadership only helps them break. If they avoid a sweep, you might well be doing your opponent a favor by keeping the allied squad out of close combat so that he can shoot them.

**amrogers3**

Ailaros wrote:
Primaris' don't have weaken resolve, that's ability only comes with PBSs

I realized that after I posted and corrected it. Maybe a Primarius with "Weaken Resolve" would be much better. Power has the potential to be nasty.

**MrMoustaffa**

Have to buy camo netting for every tank in a squadron I think. It's all or nothing. On russes it's 30pts for sure, per tank.

Obscenely expensive, but the look on your opponent's face when you explain your leman russ has a +3 cover save is priceless. To those saying deepstrikers are a problem, you obviously havent dropped a 40 man unit to the ground behind an aegis defence line. Unless, emperor forbid, a 9 strong unit of flamers landed right in front of your tank, you should survive just about anything they can throw at you.

Also, i leave for 3 days and miss the best Marbo discussion ever. I feel sad....

**amrogers3**

loner wrote:To bring it back on topic: What do people think of Chenkov and conscripts with SITNW?

I don't see how this unit would be that effective. First, if you use the SITNW, then then your opponent get a VP depending on mission. Next, you have to move them up on your board edge. How long is it going to take to get them back in the battle? They probably won't be able to make it back to be effective. Doesn't seem very feasible points wise either. 50 + 80 + 75 at a minimum to get this squad started. That's 205 points!! Waaay too expensive.

**Happygrunt**

amrogers3 wrote:
loner wrote:To bring it back on topic: What do people think of Chenkov and conscripts with SITNW?

I don't see how this unit would be that effective. First, if you use the SITNW, then then your opponent get a VP depending on mission. Next, you have to move them up on your board edge. How long is it going to take to get them back in the battle? They probably won't be able to make it back to be effective. Doesn't seem very feasible points wise either. 50 + 80 + 75 at a minimum to get this squad started. That's 205 points!! Waaay too expensive.

Only 1/6 of the missions are KP and it is 80+80+75 minimum for, essentially, Infinite Guardsmen.

I plan on trying them out in my next game. They sound.. interesting.

**Peregrine**

amrogers3 wrote:
Next, you have to move them up on your board edge.

You can place objectives 6.000001" from the table edge, and the unit can move on 6", so they immediately respawn within scoring range of an objective, and can optionally use their run move to surround the objective and add insurance against casualties.

**MrMoustaffa**

plus you just need to be within 3" of the objective to hold it. Place the objective by terrain or in a building and it can be almost impossible for the enemy to take from your conscripts.

**Ailaros**

Yes, all of that is true.

I'd also add that they're not that bad for stopping linebreaker and for killing stuff that gets in your deployment zone. Even a squad of 20 puts down 40 shots, and the DO, on occasion, accept FRF.

Especially if you have other stuff to injure them first, I've had conscripts finish off plenty of stuff in my deployment zone before. The best part is that if they're wiped out (or forced to run, given proper conscript placement), you can bring them back ANYWHERE on your board edge. This means that killing them can really just cause them to teleport anywhere onto your table edge, and into 12" range of something.

**Vhaine**

I'm a returning player who last played in 4th edition. I'm interested in running all infantry guard. I have a completely scandalous amount of infantry, heavy/special weapons, and elite options.

Any tips for pure foot slogger guard armies?

**TheCaptain**

Vhaine wrote:
I'm a returning player who last played in 4th edition. I'm interested in running all infantry guard. I have a completely scandalous amount of infantry, heavy/special weapons, and elite options.

Any tips for pure foot slogger guard armies?

Things to do/Have:

Blobs with Melta/Plasma and Lascannons

Conscripts with Send In The Next Wave

Al'Rahem

Basilisks, Medusas, Manticores

Vendettas

CCS's with orders for your blobs

Stormtroopers

Don't waste points on your PCS, keep it under 50 points total.

Aegis Defense Lines

Don't try to kit out units to do multiple things; keep it simple

Avoid Sentinels, Hellhound Variants, Techpriests, and Penal Legions.

Don't put Vets on foot unless its with Harker.

Have fun

**Vhaine**

"Blobs with Melta/Plasma and Lascannons "

When you say blobs, are you're referancing the new IG ability to combine multiple squads into one unit? What's the advantage to doing this in a squad that contains AT weapons like lascannons? Overwatch? In the past I'd designed my normal squads as plasma/missile and used them just for shooting troops. I would dedicate numerous lascannon heavy weapon squads and platoon commands to do lascannon AT work.

"Stormtroopers"

I ran the points on them and they still seem very expensive. I keep trying to work them in, but so pricey.

"Don't waste points on your PCS, keep it under 50 points total. "

Are PCS orders relavent enough to justify min/max them? I was disappointed to see that they can no longer lend their leadership to other units in this edition. The CCS orders look great, but I'm having a hard time seeing the shine on the PCS orders.

Aegis Defense Lines

With or without the sentry turrent? I haven't modeled one yet, but I was considering using my old tarrantula. (I've got all old style metal cadians.)

What about these smaller ratling squads? Seems like sniper rifles and ratlings got a buff. Any thought there?

**RegalPhantom**

Vhaine wrote:

With or without the sentry turrent? I haven't modeled one yet, but I was considering using my old tarrantula. (I've got all old style metal cadians.)

What about these smaller ratling squads? Seems like sniper rifles and ratlings got a buff. Any thought there?

As a general note, you tent to see Aegis lines taken with the Quad Gun. For 50 points you effectively get 2 Twin Linked Autocannons with Skyfire and Interceptor. It's an amazing purchase.

Additionally, speaking as a player who uses Sniper Scouts in his marine army, I can tell you that Snipe Rifles did get better, the buff merely improved them from 'never useful' to 'occasionally useful'. While I'm not sure about how Ratlings perform, based on the improvement to Sniper Scouts I would argue that if they weren't worth taking in 5th they aren't any better in 6th, especially if Ratlings can't score.

**Vhaine**

especially if Ratlings can't score.

I'll have to look into that. I'm frankly not sure if they can. I haven't much time with the mission rules. I was working under the assumption that they could.

**kronk**

I play Space Marines and Orks, and I swear at my IG buddy when Marbo hits the F'ing table.

(It's all in good fun)

WIth the new flier rules in 6th Edition, his Vendetta's rule the sky. Fortunately, I run an ork foot list, and could give a crap about 3 TL-Lascannons. "Oh, you killed 3 orks? Big woop. I'll grow more." However, my Space Marine techmarines cry at all of the damage that is done to his precious rhinos, land raiders, and predators.

As for tricks and tactics, Vendettas filled with plasma or melta veterans is cliche, but still very effective and self explanatory.

**TheCaptain**

Vhaine wrote:

When you say blobs, are you're referancing the new IG ability to combine multiple squads into one unit? What's the advantage to doing this in a squad that contains AT weapons like lascannons? Overwatch? In the past I'd designed my normal squads as plasma/missile and used them just for shooting troops. I would dedicate numerous lascannon heavy weapon squads and platoon commands to do lascannon AT work.

The advantage is survivability and order efficiency. I run a 40 man blob with Lascannons and Plasmaguns. This one unit needs to take 10 casualties to force a leadership check, and like 30 before the enemy starts hitting my special/heavy weapons. They get 80ish shots on overwatch, and 80ish attacks in close combat. (More if you attach an IC with counter-attack.) For orders, you simply have to issue one order and it affects the entire 40 man blob.

Heavy Weapon Squads are too fragile; they instant death at Str6+ (which is super common as anti-transport fire in 6th) and after one casualty they run on ld7. Most will avoid HWS's now.

I ran the points on them [stormtroopers] and they still seem very expensive. I keep trying to work them in, but so pricey.

They're pretty darn expensive, but the Hotshot Lasguns are rather effective at picking apart a marine squad, and they are incredibly good at their main job; deep striking special weapons exactly where you need them.

Are PCS orders relavent enough to justify min/max them? I was disappointed to see that they can no longer lend their leadership to other units in this edition. The CCS orders look great, but I'm having a hard time seeing the shine on the PCS orders.

Frankly, their orders are kindof crap. Their only decent one is FRFSRF, and its still crap. The CCS is your order-monkey, the PCS is just a BS3 squad that can rock 4 special weapons. I suggest (and I rarely suggest this weapon) flamers and make them a suicide squad. Give 'em a Chimera or Vendetta (I recommend the latter) and send them where you need dat fire.

[Aegis] With or without the sentry turrent? I haven't modeled one yet, but I was considering using my old tarrantula. (I've got all old style metal cadians.)

For foot the Defense Line is (almost) mandatory. Guard makes it especially good, because we can GtG behind it for a 2+ save, then use GBITF right after. Its a fun little trick. The quad gun is up to you, but Flyers are stupid-good this edition, and very popular, so its advisable, yes.

What about these smaller ratling squads? Seems like sniper rifles and ratlings got a buff. Any thought there?

Snipers got a buff, but they're still bad. I'd avoid them; the rest of Dakka tends to agree with that.

If you find yourself short on heavy weapons, take a look at these bad boys. They are incredibly easy to scratchbuild, and have skyfire and interceptor (very sought after rules) along with t7, w2 and SV3. Oh, and a squad of 3 with TL-Lascannons is 150 pts.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vhaine wrote:
especially if Ratlings can't score.

I'll have to look into that. I'm frankly not sure if they can. I haven't much time with the mission rules. I was working under the assumption that they could.

They cannot.

Only troops.

And Heavies in the Mission "Big Guns Never Tire"

and Fast Attack in "The Scouring"

**Vhaine**

If you find yourself short on heavy weapons, take a look at these bad boys. They are incredibly easy to scratchbuild, and have skyfire and interceptor (very sought after rules) along with t7, w2 and SV3. Oh, and a squad of 3 with TL-Lascannons is 150 pts.

Where can I find the rules on them?

**Ailaros**

Vhaine wrote:
"Stormtroopers"

I ran the points on them and they still seem very expensive. I keep trying to work them in, but so pricey.

Firstly, meltacide is crazy good. Anywhere on the board, you're putting down one or more melta hits very, very often in melta range (if you place them aggressively).

Secondly, a full-sized squad of 10 puts down an awful lot of Ap3 shots, once again, anywhere on the board. I've been running a 10x squad of stormies with 2x flamers, and they are my most consistent objective clearers.

As for foot guard in general. Give a squad of Send in the Next Wave a try. There are a bunch of neat tricks you can do with them. Other than that, I've found it's a good thing to make sure you give your PISs some decent guns.

**Vhaine**

I think I'm going to try both in my game tommorrow. Also, on the site you have listed in your sig, you've got a list of revisions and changes. I found this helpful as I now have a list of specific rules I think I might need to reread.

**Happygrunt**

Vhaine wrote:
If you find yourself short on heavy weapons, take a look at these bad boys. They are incredibly easy to scratchbuild, and have skyfire and interceptor (very sought after rules) along with t7, w2 and SV3. Oh, and a squad of 3 with TL-Lascannons is 150 pts.

Where can I find the rules on them?

FW has them. It is called the Rapier Carrier Battery. The models are awesome, and I plan to pick up three for the 40k friendly. Plus, they are 148 points fully kitted out. 3 twin-linked S9 Ordnance shots is nothing to laugh at.

Rules are here (and free!):

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/Imperial_Guard_Rapier.pdf