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I really like the way the Valkyrie/Vendetta looks. Although I like the look of the Vulture even more. Than giant-a$$ engine really does it for me more than the two smaller engines do.

So what about artillery, I am going to get a lot of it for my Death Korps siege regiement, but I rarely see it being mentionned in here, except for the Manticore, which I can't take.

From what I've been reading... take 2 Basilisks in a squadron. Maybe multiples of that.

I saw in one of these threads that the Bassy has lost it's minimum range. What does that mean?

I remain a big, big Medusa fan, but I might be biased since I bought two of them from Forgeworld and am loathe to let the models go unused. Much like my Hellhound, they tend to draw a huge amount of fire, keeping the autocannons, plasmaguns, and rockets away from my Chimeras.

Sadly, they don't survive that hail very well.

It can fire directly is what I understand, if it can see the target, you can directly fire at it, but you don't remember your BS from the scatter.

I am leaning over the Medusa personally, the Krieg ones are only 100 pts each, after all.

If I bought something from FW, I'd definitely want to use it. When I get my future Vulture, then I'll do anything I have to to be able to play it.

HMmmmmmm IG tactics and tricks you say.....

This sounds like a job for...

Thing is, FW Medusa carriage are stupidly, horribly, terribly, monstroulsy, overly, totally, completely, retardedly expensive. Compare to the Earthshaker platform, and weep for me :(

Yeah, but it looks cool. Sometimes... no matter the math, or points cost, or effectiveness, just having that bad-ass model on the table is what counts. You just have to try to work around it's shortcomings. Or, if you're like me, and you choose your entire army based on what looks good, instead of how it works together, then you lose a lot and get used to it.

Well I use the Grenadiers, horribly overcosted, but sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo pretty, I'll always have at least one squad of e'm.

Grenadiers? Grenade launchers?

I unfortunately have yet to play a game in 6th (been going on two years without rolling dice), but I'm still working on painting my guard.

In the meanwhile, I'm planning some purchases, and after reading through the new book and tactica online, it seems I'm almost forced to bring Vendettas/other flyers to be competitive.

My question is, if I want to have a truly competitive list, am I seriously gimping myself not bringing at least a pair of Vendettas? I'm not overly fond of the model, and I hate the idea of bringing them in with my all mech and/or foot list. Problem is, the only other reliable method for dealing with flyers is by bringing a bunch of Hydras, which not only limit my Heavy slots, but are also only truly effective against flyers; compared to the Vendetta which leaves my heavy slots untouched and is equally effective at dealing with flyers and ground units. It just feels like an even greater no-brainer decision to bring Vendettas than they were in 5th.

This is within the context that I want a competitive IG list without allies. I've been considering picking up the new IA book for the armoured battlegroup list, but that still doesn't solve my issues of dealing with flyers without bringing flyers.

 Bobthehero wrote:
So what about artillery, I am going to get a lot of it for my Death Korps siege regiement, but I rarely see it being mentionned in here, except for the Manticore, which I can't take.

Extremely overpowered. The 6th edition changes to the artillery rules are insane with the towed guns. You have to roll to wound against T7 even though you have 5+ guardsmen in front of the gun taking any wounds that get through, and since the guns are now no longer vehicle models they can shoot 360*. Effectively for 75 points you have a T7 W10 3+ MC with an earthshaker cannon. And then you put it behind an aegis line and make sure your T7 guardsmen now have a 4++.

The only "downside" is that the Medusa is now the same gun as the tank, not the special barrage version. Well, that and the fact that your opponents probably won't want to play you anymore if you bring too much artillery, at least until FW fixes the rules and/or point costs to account for how 6th made them obscenely powerful.

 Valhalla130 wrote:
Grenadiers? Grenade launchers?

Grenadiers, DKoK "stormtroopers".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:
My question is, if I want to have a truly competitive list, am I seriously gimping myself not bringing at least a pair of Vendettas?

Yes. Vendettas are insanely powerful, and pretty much any list that doesn't have them is significantly worse than a list that does.

 Blacksails wrote:
My question is, if I want to have a truly competitive list, am I seriously gimping myself not bringing at least a pair of Vendettas?

Significantly so. It's not impossible to have a competitive list without them, but they're an important addition and every competitive list *should* have them by all logic and reason.

Is it okay to bring Valkyries instead of Vendettas? They seem like the same exact aircraft, but with different weapon options and I'd rather just bring the one I cna make out of the box with also having to buy FW stuff to make it look right.

 TheCaptain wrote:
Do buy:
Plasmaguns
Meltaguns
Lascannons
Autocannons
Medusas
Vendettas
Sabres
Vultures
Chimeras

Don't buy:
Ratlings
Ogryn
Psyker Battle Squads
Marbo
Grenade Launchers
Heavy Bolters
Most of the Leman Russ Variants (LRBT, Executioner, and Demolisher are really the only feasible ones.)
Medipacks
Carapace Armor
Special/Heavy Weapon Squads
Sentinels
Commissars


Everything else is a toss up, and depends on your list.

I am interested in hearing why you don't recommend buying Gernade Launchers?

 Valhalla130 wrote:
Is it okay to bring Valkyries instead of Vendettas? They seem like the same exact aircraft, but with different weapon options and I'd rather just bring the one I cna make out of the box with also having to buy FW stuff to make it look right.

Valkyries are a balanced, decently priced codex option.

Vendettas are insanely good for their points with incredibly powerful weaponry.

Valks are good, Vendettas are amazing. Go with the Vendetta; conversion kits aren't that much.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Valhalla130 wrote:
Is it okay to bring Valkyries instead of Vendettas? They seem like the same exact aircraft, but with different weapon options and I'd rather just bring the one I cna make out of the box with also having to buy FW stuff to make it look right.

Valkyries are a balanced, decently priced codex option.

Vendettas are insanely good for their points with incredibly powerful weaponry.

Valks are good, Vendettas are amazing. Go with the Vendetta; conversion kits aren't that much.

yeah, a AV12 transport that flies without much in the way of weapons is strong but not broken for 100 points. The missile launchers arent any good, they can only get 1 lascannon, probably the best is multilaser and 2 heavy bolters. Hardly a gunship.

Vendettas would be incredibly strong with 3 REGULAR lascannons. The twinlinked moves them into the broken catagory.

That said I've never paid for a conversion kit. Plenty of random lascannons lying around from HWS boxes and pilfered from some dude at my FLGS who let me at his bits box.

 Exergy wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Valhalla130 wrote:
Is it okay to bring Valkyries instead of Vendettas? They seem like the same exact aircraft, but with different weapon options and I'd rather just bring the one I cna make out of the box with also having to buy FW stuff to make it look right.

Valkyries are a balanced, decently priced codex option.

Vendettas are insanely good for their points with incredibly powerful weaponry.

Valks are good, Vendettas are amazing. Go with the Vendetta; conversion kits aren't that much.

yeah, a AV12 transport that flies without much in the way of weapons is strong but not broken for 100 points. The missile launchers arent any good, they can only get 1 lascannon, probably the best is multilaser and 2 heavy bolters..

The multi-rocket pods are pretty good if you're short on anti-horde.

Like most aircav armies will be.

So, anti-horde, Valkyrie with rocket pods, anti-vehicle, then it's Vendetta? Thanks.

However you don't need Vendetta's immediately to counter your opponent. You could also take an ADL with an Icarus lascannon or an Quadgun. Both are pretty decent at what they do, while giving the rest of your army a 4+ cover save.

Valhalla130 wrote:So, anti-horde, Valkyrie with rocket pods, anti-vehicle, then it's Vendetta? Thanks.

No there are far better anti-horde options, I think the capt'n was saying bring the RP valks if you're running air cav. Not regular guard - they have better anti-horde (Manticores are an amazing example).

loner wrote:However you don't need Vendetta's immediately to counter your opponent. You could also take an ADL with an Icarus lascannon or an Quadgun. Both are pretty decent at what they do, while giving the rest of your army a 4+ cover save.

Sorry the Icarus or Quad do not compare to the Vendetta. They're a static gun. The Vendetta isn't just anti-air, it's probably the best anti-armor unit in the codex.

loner wrote:
However you don't need Vendetta's immediately to counter your opponent. You could also take an ADL with an Icarus lascannon or an Quadgun. Both are pretty decent at what they do, while giving the rest of your army a 4+ cover save.

Until your line gets hit properly and your opponent seizes your Quadgun or Icarus lascannon. True comedy is walking a character in Terminator armor us to a Quadgun, firing it in the shooting phase, then assaulting the unit you just shot at. Even walking up and snap-firing it isn't bad thanks to the twin-linking.

Blacksails wrote:My question is, if I want to have a truly competitive list, am I seriously gimping myself not bringing at least a pair of Vendettas?

No.

There are a lot of places to get anti-tank in the guard codex.

 Valhalla130 wrote:
Is it okay to bring Valkyries instead of Vendettas? They seem like the same exact aircraft, but with different weapon options and I'd rather just bring the one I cna make out of the box with also having to buy FW stuff to make it look right.

Not really. Vendettas are awesome because, in addition to being extremely cheap transports with good firepower, they give you something no other unit in the codex offers: the combination of effective AA and anti-tank in the same unit. Valkyries are decent, but they can't shoot down other flyers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:
There are a lot of places to get anti-tank in the guard codex.

But not while simultaneously getting AA, which is why Vendettas are so good.

(Well, technically people other than you can take Sabre guns.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Black_Falcon wrote:
I am interested in hearing why you don't recommend buying Gernade Launchers?

Because they occupy a spot that could be used for a melta or plasma gun, while doing almost nothing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:
There are a lot of places to get anti-tank in the guard codex.

But not while simultaneously getting AA, which is why Vendettas are so good.

(Well, technically people other than you can take Sabre guns.)

Well, it all kind of depends on your attitude towards the air game. If your goal is to dominate it, then yes, not taking vendettas will be a pretty big loss to your army. If you only want to curb the worst excesses of flier spam somewhat, then an ADL with a quad gun and a few hydras will probably suit you well enough. If you're going to cede the air game so that you can dominate the ground game, then you don't need any anti-air at all.

 Valhalla130 wrote:
Grenadiers? Grenade launchers?

Death Korps Grenadiers, kinda like stormtroopers without deep striking.

It also depends on your meta for fliers. Ive found that at my meta most people dont run fliers or they atleast have 1. In the military now a days when the troops or armor roll out theres generally eyes in the sky or some sort of airsupport and Ive found that to be true about most games. If you have air superiority then you will have an advantage on the ground game as you will have a unit that is harder to kill. I used 2 vendettas in the beginning of 6th but since my meta is low on fliers I have cut back to using 1 or none as a quad gun has proved amazing to me especially at wounding light armor as well(my opponents hate it especially the flying daemon princes). I dont find hydras good at all, yes they are like 75pts but they dont have interceptor which means your opponent has the chance to use his flier to blow up your very fragile chimera chasis in which if so happens you lose some anti air and if your rolling with 2 then your anti air is cut in half and with only 2 shots it may not damage the flier at all.