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Sort of. The rules are pretty clearly explained in the rulebook.
And what's so bad about exterminators. I know they're not great, what with being stuck with autocannons, but they ARE cheap, and better than the only other tank that shares its cost.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/10 09:21:01
Ailaros wrote: Sort of. The rules are pretty clearly explained in the rulebook.
And what's so bad about exterminators. I know they're not great, what with being stuck with autocannons, but they ARE cheap, and better than the only other tank that shares its cost.
Its for fluff purposes. Ill be replacing them with Hellhounds
I think I have a nice balance here. I have 5 plasma delivery systems, and 4 melta, alongside 9 heavy flamers and 3 inferno cannons.
I also think that Ive worked in my fluff well; lots of fast moving, high threat units with a great deal of precision. The carapace CCS is going to be modelled using the valkyrie door gunners, and will be a Storm Trooper command unit.
This fluff in mind, does my list look good for the style I want to achieve?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/10 19:10:01
I think I have a nice balance here. I have 5 plasma delivery systems, and 4 melta, alongside 9 heavy flamers and 3 inferno cannons.
I also think that Ive worked in my fluff well; lots of fast moving, high threat units with a great deal of precision. The carapace CCS is going to be modelled using the valkyrie door gunners, and will be a Storm Trooper command unit.
This fluff in mind, does my list look good for the style I want to achieve?
You have no anti-horde.
I'd ditch the Hellhound and run some form of artillery. Your chimeras with HHF will perform fine as Ghetto-hellhounds; your problem will be things like Gaunt-spam and Green-tide.
A manticore would synergize nicely with this list.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/10 21:08:20
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
The fluff Ive attached to my list dictates that my units need to be fast and precise (description wise), for use in lightning raids against camps/depots/whatever. This means things like armoured fist squads, vendettas, storm troopers and other fast/scout vehicles. This sadly rules out artillery pieces like medusae, bassies, manticores and russes (which after the brief discussion above with Peregrine, I have decided is too slow for what Im after).
I would have reckoned that a large number of templates (9 heavy flamers and 3 inferno cannons) going tearing forwards would be ample anti-horde, when combined with the various other weapons I have at my disposal. Also, when faced with a true tide list, space becomes an issue, so I can either use my (moderately) superior manueverability to bottleneck them and tackle them 1-2 at a time, or they bunch up to make room, making my hounds more effective.
In theory at least.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/10 21:32:37
I would have reckoned that a large number of templates (9 heavy flamers and 3 inferno cannons) going tearing forwards would be ample anti-horde, when combined with the various other weapons I have at my disposal. Also, when faced with a true tide list, space becomes an issue, so I can either use my (moderately) superior manueverability to bottleneck them and tackle them 1-2 at a time, or they bunch up to make room, making my hounds more effective.
In theory at least.
The problem being that, effectively, you only have 1 inferno cannon at 1500, and 3 inferno cannons at 2000. Your HHFs are more defensive/for pushing off objective campers. You don't want them (Chimeras) rushing hordes, because they will get popped, and the guys inside: shredded.
I stand by my suggestion of the manticore; if only because it will provide STR10, an important factor you are lacking, as well as the obvious horde utility.
That said; Manticores are long-range ballistic missiles; if you were to tuck it into the backfield while the entire rest of your line rushes up; you'd be fluffy in dictating that it is simply some miles away, barraging your targets.
Up to you; but either way, you're short consistent anti-horde, and Str10 instant death. Something to either fix, or consider when you play games.
Cheers,
-Capt
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/10 21:39:00
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
I would have reckoned that a large number of templates (9 heavy flamers and 3 inferno cannons) going tearing forwards would be ample anti-horde, when combined with the various other weapons I have at my disposal. Also, when faced with a true tide list, space becomes an issue, so I can either use my (moderately) superior manueverability to bottleneck them and tackle them 1-2 at a time, or they bunch up to make room, making my hounds more effective.
In theory at least.
The problem being that, effectively, you only have 1 inferno cannon at 1500, and 3 inferno cannons at 2000. Your HHFs are more defensive/for pushing off objective campers. You don't want them (Chimeras) rushing hordes, because they will get popped, and the guys inside: shredded.
I stand by my suggestion of the manticore; if only because it will provide STR10, an important factor you are lacking, as well as the obvious horde utility.
That said; Manticores are long-range ballistic missiles; if you were to tuck it into the backfield while the entire rest of your line rushes up; you'd be fluffy in dictating that it is simply some miles away, barraging your targets.
Up to you; but either way, you're short consistent anti-horde, and Str10 instant death. Something to either fix, or consider when you play games.
Cheers,
-Capt
All valid points which will be taken into consideration. Im going to stick with this list for now, and give it some test runs before I decide on what needs to change. Thanks for the fast replies on this one
:EDIT:
Id just like to point out that im not an overly competitive gamer (I forgot to mention this haha). My flgs is pretty much me, my roomie, and the store owner (who has a few lists and models for every army going), so Im not expecting to go to big tournaments with this list. My roomie and I have decided to write full fluff out for each of our forces, the army being based on the fluff, so competitiveness isnt as big an issue as it is for most. Of course I like to win, hence the multitude of plasma and the like, but I also like to have a slight weakness to add challenge.
Another quick point; my remedy for anti-horde so far has been to get my vets halfway up the board, disembark them, and then go barreling into single squads with multiple chimerae haha.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/10 21:59:17
Check out this link, you can get a resin upgrade kit for anything on a Chimera Chasis to make it a 6 wheeled mean machine. If yoh get a Manticore and give it the 6 wheels it will look like a fast responce vehicle which would fit your fluff and fill some big holes in your list
? There's 6 chimeras and a hellhound, with points left over for sponson bolters for a vendetta. That's 15 heavy bolters and a torrent heavy flamer. Plus, a fair amount of lasguns as well.
Not going to win anti-horde list of the year by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't have NO anti-horde.
I've run Hellhounds and Bane Wolves a lot actually but I have to admit that the Manticore is better it is decent against more than just horde, has a far longer range so can kill things without being within range of return fire and being indirect it can snipe important models from a unit.
EmilCrane wrote: A hellhound is anti horde, have any of you guys ever actually used one?
It really isn't. It can help with anti-horde, but its main job is dealing with medium-size units that have cover bonuses (Eldar rangers, Harker squads, etc). Against true hordes you just can't get enough models under the template compared to a Manticore/Griffon squadron/etc.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TheCaptain wrote: Up to you; but either way, you're short consistent anti-horde, and Str10 instant death. Something to either fix, or consider when you play games.
One partial solution would be to add an Avenger or two with hellfury missiles. Sure, it's one-shot anti-horde but that's two no-cover blast templates and 7 shots from the main gun, and a pair of BS 4 lascannons to replace the Manticore's anti-vehicle shots when there aren't any hordes to worry about. And, as a ground-attack fighter, it's very fluffy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/11 02:08:17
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
TheCaptain wrote: Up to you; but either way, you're short consistent anti-horde, and Str10 instant death. Something to either fix, or consider when you play games.
One partial solution would be to add an Avenger or two with hellfury missiles. Sure, it's one-shot anti-horde but that's two no-cover blast templates and 7 shots from the main gun, and a pair of BS 4 lascannons to replace the Manticore's anti-vehicle shots when there aren't any hordes to worry about. And, as a ground-attack fighter, it's very fluffy.
Stop reminding me of thinks I want but can't afford.
I always thought the Avenger was more of an Anti-tank weapon myself. I mean, it seems to be based of the A-10, which is primarily meant to kill tanks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/11 02:49:09
40k: IG "The Poli-Aima 1st" ~3500pts (and various allies) KHADOR X-Wing (Empire Strong)
Ouze wrote: I can't wait to buy one of these, open the box, peek at the sprues, and then put it back in the box and store it unpainted for years.
I have a question. Are two Leman Russ (LRBT/Demolisher) tanks too much at the 750 pt level? I posted my list a bit back but I'm starting to have doubts about it. I mean, that much AV14 is pretty good but I'm hurt for troops choices. I'm thinking of just taking a bolter boat punisher and calling it a day.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
TheCaptain wrote: Up to you; but either way, you're short consistent anti-horde, and Str10 instant death. Something to either fix, or consider when you play games.
One partial solution would be to add an Avenger or two with hellfury missiles. Sure, it's one-shot anti-horde but that's two no-cover blast templates and 7 shots from the main gun, and a pair of BS 4 lascannons to replace the Manticore's anti-vehicle shots when there aren't any hordes to worry about. And, as a ground-attack fighter, it's very fluffy.
Stop reminding me of thinks I want but can't afford.
I always thought the Avenger was more of an Anti-tank weapon myself. I mean, it seems to be based of the A-10, which is primarily meant to kill tanks.
It's "supposed" to be an Anti-Light Tank strike vehicle, but it can take the Hellfury missiles, which I adore. It's incredibly dumb to put them on a Vendetta, but Elysians can take them on Thunderbolts, and they are a fantastic Horde-solution.
C:IG can only take them on Avengers (and vendettas, but I've covered that), and they are a great choice.
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
TheCustomLime wrote: I have a question. Are two Leman Russ (LRBT/Demolisher) tanks too much at the 750 pt level? I posted my list a bit back but I'm starting to have doubts about it. I mean, that much AV14 is pretty good but I'm hurt for troops choices. I'm thinking of just taking a bolter boat punisher and calling it a day.
Well, yes. You will be hurting for points and targets at 750 with a leman russ. Take one if you must, but no more.
40k: IG "The Poli-Aima 1st" ~3500pts (and various allies) KHADOR X-Wing (Empire Strong)
Ouze wrote: I can't wait to buy one of these, open the box, peek at the sprues, and then put it back in the box and store it unpainted for years.
TheCustomLime wrote: I have a question. Are two Leman Russ (LRBT/Demolisher) tanks too much at the 750 pt level? I posted my list a bit back but I'm starting to have doubts about it. I mean, that much AV14 is pretty good but I'm hurt for troops choices. I'm thinking of just taking a bolter boat punisher and calling it a day.
Well, yes. You will be hurting for points and targets at 750 with a leman russ. Take one if you must, but no more.
On the contrary; I don't think so. It will pack in quite a solid bit of firepower to your list, and on an AV14 frame that few 750pt lists can deal with.
Two will be, frankly, too much for them to handle in most cases. In 500, I always bring a demolisher. In 750, I don't see why you wouldn't bring two Leman Russes.
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
Happygrunt wrote: I always thought the Avenger was more of an Anti-tank weapon myself. I mean, it seems to be based of the A-10, which is primarily meant to kill tanks.
It's anti-tank, because you have flyer mobility to get two BS 4 lascannons and seven shots of STR 6 into side/rear armor. Just like a real A-10, which attacks the weak points on a tank, not frontal armor.
Though really the Avenger is good anti-everything: volume of fire and hellfuries for anti-horde, lots of AP 3 for anti-MEQ, decent anti-tank. If you take an Avenger with hellfury missiles you're pretty much guaranteed to have good targets for it.
TheCustomLime wrote: I have a question. Are two Leman Russ (LRBT/Demolisher) tanks too much at the 750 pt level? I posted my list a bit back but I'm starting to have doubts about it. I mean, that much AV14 is pretty good but I'm hurt for troops choices. I'm thinking of just taking a bolter boat punisher and calling it a day.
Dual AV 14 and two AV 12 threats is hard to deal with for most 750 point armies, and the camo cloak squad sits on an objective in cover and scares anyone away from trying to claim it. Or try this for a variation:
Loses AV 14, but Medusas always have something to shoot, and that's a nasty wall of AV 12 for such a small game.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
TheCustomLime wrote: I have a question. Are two Leman Russ (LRBT/Demolisher) tanks too much at the 750 pt level? I posted my list a bit back but I'm starting to have doubts about it. I mean, that much AV14 is pretty good but I'm hurt for troops choices. I'm thinking of just taking a bolter boat punisher and calling it a day.
Dual AV 14 and two AV 12 threats is hard to deal with for most 750 point armies, and the camo cloak squad sits on an objective in cover and scares anyone away from trying to claim it. Or try this for a variation:
Loses AV 14, but Medusas always have something to shoot, and that's a nasty wall of AV 12 for such a small game.
My list is actually very similar to the former one:
HQ:
CCS:
2x Plasma
Lascannon
Troops:
Veterans
3x Meltaguns
Chimera
Veterans
3x Plasma Guns
Autocannon
Chimera
Heavy Support:
LRBT Hull Heavy Bolter
Demolisher
Hull Heavy Bolter
I was considering downgrading the Plasma Vet squad to a plain meltavet squad in a Chimera, take off the CCS Lascannon and give them a Chimera to try and deny a "Slay the warlord" VP
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/11 04:11:45
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
I was considering downgrading the Plasma Vet squad to a plain meltavet squad in a Chimera, take off the CCS Lascannon and give them a Chimera to try and deny a "Slay the warlord" VP
You definitely want to do that. Although, I'd ditch the Vet Autocannon and Plasmas/lascannon on the CCS. The Plasmavets are good downfield shooting, and your CCS can just hang back in their Chimera. Three Plasmaguns and a living CCS are worth more to you than An autocannon, 2 Plasmas, a Lascannon, and a dead CCS.
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
I was considering downgrading the Plasma Vet squad to a plain meltavet squad in a Chimera, take off the CCS Lascannon and give them a Chimera to try and deny a "Slay the warlord" VP
You definitely want to do that. Although, I'd ditch the Vet Autocannon and Plasmas/lascannon on the CCS. The Plasmavets are good downfield shooting, and your CCS can just hang back in their Chimera. Three Plasmaguns and a living CCS are worth more to you than An autocannon, 2 Plasmas, a Lascannon, and a dead CCS.
That's true. Plus, it seems to me that the only use Plasma Guns really have in a CCS is to defend against any deep strikers. Otherwise, you wouldn't want the Command Squad in the Plasma gun range.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
That's true. Plus, it seems to me that the only use Plasma Guns really have in a CCS is to defend against any deep strikers. Otherwise, you wouldn't want the Command Squad in the Plasma gun range.
Exaaactly.
In such a low-point game, your opponent is going to want to bring as many heavy-hitters as he can with such few points (like you are, bringing two tanks). This means your CCS primarily is going to be aviding heavy hitters; 9/10 times, you shouldn't worry about them killing stuff. Let your tanks and shootyvets handle that. They can just hang out and crush handles of Jack in their metal box.
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
That's true. Plus, it seems to me that the only use Plasma Guns really have in a CCS is to defend against any deep strikers. Otherwise, you wouldn't want the Command Squad in the Plasma gun range.
Exaaactly.
In such a low-point game, your opponent is going to want to bring as many heavy-hitters as he can with such few points (like you are, bringing two tanks). This means your CCS primarily is going to be aviding heavy hitters; 9/10 times, you shouldn't worry about them killing stuff. Let your tanks and shootyvets handle that. They can just hang out and crush handles of Jack in their metal box.
Maybe I'll throw in a powerfist or something with the 5pts I have left over. Just in case. (I don't have the codex on hand so excuse me if I'm wrong about the cost)
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
That's true. Plus, it seems to me that the only use Plasma Guns really have in a CCS is to defend against any deep strikers. Otherwise, you wouldn't want the Command Squad in the Plasma gun range.
Exaaactly.
In such a low-point game, your opponent is going to want to bring as many heavy-hitters as he can with such few points (like you are, bringing two tanks). This means your CCS primarily is going to be aviding heavy hitters; 9/10 times, you shouldn't worry about them killing stuff. Let your tanks and shootyvets handle that. They can just hang out and crush handles of Jack in their metal box.
Maybe I'll throw in a powerfist or something with the 5pts I have left over. Just in case. (I don't have the codex on hand so excuse me if I'm wrong about the cost)
CCS-Flamer, CCS-Mortar, or Krak Grenades on the Meltavets would be your best bet.
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
That's true. Plus, it seems to me that the only use Plasma Guns really have in a CCS is to defend against any deep strikers. Otherwise, you wouldn't want the Command Squad in the Plasma gun range.
Exaaactly.
In such a low-point game, your opponent is going to want to bring as many heavy-hitters as he can with such few points (like you are, bringing two tanks). This means your CCS primarily is going to be aviding heavy hitters; 9/10 times, you shouldn't worry about them killing stuff. Let your tanks and shootyvets handle that. They can just hang out and crush handles of Jack in their metal box.
Maybe I'll throw in a powerfist or something with the 5pts I have left over. Just in case. (I don't have the codex on hand so excuse me if I'm wrong about the cost)
CCS-Flamer, CCS-Mortar, or Krak Grenades on the Meltavets would be your best bet.
Krak Grenades would probably be the most useful. I don't need any more pie plates and the flamer will probably only do something every 3 games.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
As far as redundancy is concerned; is one vendetta enough at 1500? Because I can see a vendetta surviving on its own, whereas I can see a lone hell hound booking it early.
:EDIT:
Correcting spelling.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/11 11:11:43
Afrodactyl wrote: As far as redundancy is concerned; is one vendetta enough at 1500? Because I can see a vendetta surviving on its own, whereas I can see a lone hell hound booking it early.
Depends on what you're looking for. One vendetta is something that will soak a bunch of anti-transport fire, pop a transport or two, and generally function as a harassment unit. I wouldn't put troops in a vendetta if it was my only flyer.
2+, and you now have some serious firepower, can start putting troops in them thanks to decent saturation, and you gain control of the sky.
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
KHADOR 
X-Wing (Empire Strong) 
The Empire 
1500 pts
: 
