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Dark Sphere are posting GW again. They trounce Wayland.

I have had issues with Waylands speed before now, to be honest its the main reason why I switched to Maelstrom in 2009 or so.

They aren't extremely slow but my orders were being delivered about a week later than they should have been.

UltraPrime wrote:
I placed an order 3 weeks ago. Wasn't in stock, but was due in within 3 days. However, still not in stock, and now says 8 days.

Did the day countdown on your product also go from 0 to -1?

 BrookM wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:
I placed an order 3 weeks ago. Wasn't in stock, but was due in within 3 days. However, still not in stock, and now says 8 days.

Did the day countdown on your product also go from 0 to -1?

Yes

I ordered from them, with a product that hadn't been released yet, and they had it marked as shipped before I was expecting the release date. I know it has often taken 1-2 full weeks to get anything from the UK to my doorstep, so I'm sure my box will be waiting for me when I get home from work today or tomorrow. As long as Gorgalla, lord of the international postal service, and devourer of minis, hasn't gotten my package. Damn you Gorgalla...

Tell me about it, parcels from the UK to me are always a pain in the bum and taking well up to a month. Parcels and mail from the US though.. As if by magic, no more than a week!

 BrookM wrote:
Tell me about it, parcels from the UK to me are always a pain in the bum and taking well up to a month. Parcels and mail from the US though.. As if by magic, no more than a week!

Ah, so I'm not the only one! Would those UK parcels happen to be delivered by some shady non-labeled-van-driving freelancer later in the day, instead of being delivered by the regular PostNL parcel service, as well? because my issues with shipping delays on UK parcels started when Royal Mail started using that abysmally dysfunctional company instead of PostNL, more or less.
I still think the three parcels that went missing since (and have been replaced by the respective stores, as they went missing in transit) will probably have gone missing somewhere in that last stretch. seriously, dozens and dozens of parcels from the UK in the preceding few years and nothing ever went missing, until those yokels took over... gah!

...guess I had to vent a little, there

Bolognesus wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Tell me about it, parcels from the UK to me are always a pain in the bum and taking well up to a month. Parcels and mail from the US though.. As if by magic, no more than a week!

Ah, so I'm not the only one! Would those UK parcels happen to be delivered by some shady non-labeled-van-driving freelancer later in the day, instead of being delivered by the regular PostNL parcel service, as well? because my issues with shipping delays on UK parcels started when Royal Mail started using that abysmally dysfunctional company instead of PostNL, more or less.
I still think the three parcels that went missing since (and have been replaced by the respective stores, as they went missing in transit) will probably have gone missing somewhere in that last stretch. seriously, dozens and dozens of parcels from the UK in the preceding few years and nothing ever went missing, until those yokels took over... gah!

...guess I had to vent a little, there

Squeeeeeee~! I'm not the only one either!

Yes, yes indeed it went downhill fast lately. I'm still waiting on the delivery of a pair of books from another company that's getting close to a month of transit time now.

Wayland are my 'go to' supplier for all things gaming related and have been for some time now. I always experienced delays with Maelstrom and gave up using them some time ago. I have experienced delays with Wayland but nothing excessive and almost always it has been due to awaiting stock from the manufacturer which is understandable. There will always be people who have had bad experiences or delays; you can't please all of the people, all of the time but you shouldn't let a couple of anecdotal bad experiences colour your perception of a store. Some people have had delays; the vast majority of customers are happy with the service they get.

 filbert wrote:
all of the time but you shouldn't let a couple of anecdotal bad experiences colour your perception of a store. Some people have had delays; the vast majority of customers are happy with the service they get.

By the same token you shouldn't let a couple of anecdotal stories of good experience colour your perception. Are the vast majority happy, its extremely hard to tell given the paucity of evidence. I suspect the vast majority of people are fairly indifferent.

Palindrome wrote:

 filbert wrote:
all of the time but you shouldn't let a couple of anecdotal bad experiences colour your perception of a store. Some people have had delays; the vast majority of customers are happy with the service they get.

By the same token you shouldn't let a couple of anecdotal stories of good experience colour your perception. Are the vast majority happy, its extremely hard to tell given the paucity of evidence. I suspect the vast majority of people are fairly indifferent.

If the vast majority of their customers weren't happy with them, they probably wouldn't be in business and certainly not for as long as they have been. More to the point, if the vast majority weren't happy, I doubt the owner would have the stones to come on here and post. As per usual with the internet, there will always be a vocal minority of people with bad experiences - by it's very nature, if you have a bad experience you are more likely to post and complain about it with others. You are unlikely to do that when your transaction is as expected however.

As I said I suspect that the vast majority of people are indifferent.

I should note that I am not denigrating anyone's experience here, just that a little perspective should probably be noted. If Wayland are anything like the size Maelstrom were (and I think the two are of comparable size) then Wayland turn over in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions of pounds worth of transactions. That's quite a lot of business to be dealing with. I think we can safely assume that most customers receive their goods as expected in a timely fashion. Obviously, some people don't or haven't in the past, sometimes due to their own misinterpretation of stock, sometimes due to other factors but it is something Rich and his team have acknowledged and are moving on with just as any customer faced business does. I think they deserve a bit of kudos for their efforts in getting a new website up and running - ultimately, people asked for stock levels and that's what has been delivered.

There was a couple of issues where my order arrived a little off schedule, about a week off. Apart from that, nothing negative.

Thanks everyone.

We do listen, and I hope you can see that we are constantly striving to improve what we do.

One quick one, the traffic light system... we implemented based on customer demand many moons ago. The issue is whatever we do, some will like it, some will hate it and some wont care but its a balancing act sometimes to tread a path that follows the opinions of the majority of customers. We do sometimes get it wrong though.

rich1231 wrote:
Thanks everyone.

We do listen, and I hope you can see that we are constantly striving to improve what we do.

One quick one, the traffic light system... we implemented based on customer demand many moons ago. The issue is whatever we do, some will like it, some will hate it and some wont care but its a balancing act sometimes to tread a path that follows the opinions of the majority of customers. We do sometimes get it wrong though.

Rich1231

The trafic light system would have been great for when you didn't have live stock levels, but now you do it just adds an extra level of confusion

I'd suggest going with the ACTUAL number of items in stock in the list view : really easy to see if what you want is there (if you want to keep the trafic light to indicate how soon restocking may happen move it onto the actual item page)

 BrookM wrote:

Bolognesus wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Tell me about it, parcels from the UK to me are always a pain in the bum and taking well up to a month. Parcels and mail from the US though.. As if by magic, no more than a week!

Ah, so I'm not the only one! Would those UK parcels happen to be delivered by some shady non-labeled-van-driving freelancer later in the day, instead of being delivered by the regular PostNL parcel service, as well? because my issues with shipping delays on UK parcels started when Royal Mail started using that abysmally dysfunctional company instead of PostNL, more or less.
I still think the three parcels that went missing since (and have been replaced by the respective stores, as they went missing in transit) will probably have gone missing somewhere in that last stretch. seriously, dozens and dozens of parcels from the UK in the preceding few years and nothing ever went missing, until those yokels took over... gah!

...guess I had to vent a little, there

Squeeeeeee~! I'm not the only one either!

Yes, yes indeed it went downhill fast lately. I'm still waiting on the delivery of a pair of books from another company that's getting close to a month of transit time now.

...Okay, that does it. I really do think it would be a good idea to at least write RM about this. I'm almost never home when delivery occurs - usually a roommate of mine takes delivery - but I'll try to get some information as to what company exactly is doing this. Would you mind inquiring when your next delivery happens as well? (if nothing else I'd like to know if they're using a biggish contractor or just several different smaller ones). This is getting out of hand

Bolognesus wrote:
...Okay, that does it. I really do think it would be a good idea to at least write RM about this. I'm almost never home when delivery occurs - usually a roommate of mine takes delivery - but I'll try to get some information as to what company exactly is doing this. Would you mind inquiring when your next delivery happens as well? (if nothing else I'd like to know if they're using a biggish contractor or just several different smaller ones). This is getting out of hand

Royal Mail, or whatever cheap equivalent the companies use around there, use the nameless delivery companies, it used to be Selekt Vracht, but I don't see those around any more. My Miniature Market orders from the Americas on the other hand always get delivered by an official TNT bloke, one of those rare few that still wears the official uniform and whatnot driving around in an actual mail van.

Right now I'm waiting on two books and a rather large box from Warlord Games, stuck in our mail system, or that of the Brits I fear and loathe. The horrible thing is, when you call TNT about it, they will always tell you to go somewhere else, as that's no longer part of their problem. What doesn't help either that the papers are having a lot of reports on mailbags being found in ditches or by the road left unattended..

Gah, I need to stop reading the Telegraaf, it's making me dumber by the minute.

Selekt vracht used to deliver quite promptly; it's the new ones that suck. If any of my current shipments take this long at least I'll contact royal mail and complain at least. Not that it'll do much :|
...oh and get rid of that rag, indeed. Really

Got my package from Wayland while I was away at work, as I suspected. I'm happy to be another Wayland customer, and it took the time I expected to receive a package from the UK. I have enough Mantic to put together now that I wasn't sweating waiting.

Forget what I said, got really confused with paypal. Overall, I do recommend wayland games, atleast they have a good customer service

I put my first order in with Wayland about 10 days ago for about £100, Ive watched the models count down - 32 on order "3 days to go" to "0 in stock will order soon"

My order did not change and has still not been sent out, so im guessing they did not order enough in to fill all their own orders

Now im not in a massive rush but with what has happened with other stores i would like to have my models sooner rather than later.

Ive just got back into gaming so would like to order more but im going to wait as i dont want to lose out.

So you ordered something that was not in stock, but said more were on the way and the date came and went without anything shipping? Was it a pre-order of something?

My experiences with Waylands arwe both possitive AND negative, good customer service with with some fast orders and others.....not so much O_o

Now Waylands have literally taken Maelstrom out of the equation (and I respect them for openly saying they did it on purpose to save future Maelstrom cutomers trouble and the supply chain) I'm wondering if this will effect services or deliveries in any way.

I apologize for the wall of text but I started to just say one thing and found out I had a lot to get off the chest.....

I have not bought a lot from Wayland, as I am in America and normally try to support my FLGS. I miss out on discount, but it goes to pay for the tables that I play on. That being said.......

I have had very good service from Wayland. Nothing ever gets here quickly enough for me.....but that is my impatience rather than the job Wayland does. I have found that they have been prompt (especially considering the distance), professional, and very accurate. Once again I have not bought a lot, but then I bought even less from Maelstrom. I do tend to purchase things which are hard to get here or that my FLGS can not get from his suppliers (or at least the distributors never seem to have it in stock - and I have seen the invoices!). This is not because I do not believe in Rich or Wayland, in fact he's been very positive and helpful everywhere I have seen him unless someone is being a complete jerk (or internet jerk).

I'd also like to point out that he has also helped companies release samples from their minis (like Mantic especially), and he actually at one point sent out an email/forum post explaining a slight delay....on a FREE shipment of 2 minis! This made my 12 yr old's day (and eventually week when he did get his minis!). In fact it was this that initially put Wayland on my map (when a lot of people were pushing Maelstrom at the time), and is why i tend to use his store for those things I really want.

Also, I am an old salt GW trade salesmen from the US. So I tend to be a bit jaded on internet stores. I saw New Wave start and completely implode. And several others. I have now watched the end of Maelstrom. That does not mean that I do not understand the model, but rather I have a pretty good idea on how the spiral down starts (and how much it can effect the entire industry.) Gamers might not even know how many stores went under due to New Wave or others. The bad stores all have the same premise and mission - Sell GW as cheap as you can (to replace customer loyalty). Expand as soon as the cash flow is there into other lines to become the "Mecca of gaming". Don't over-worry customer service - hey we are giving the best discount.Complete lack of long-term stable planning. Lack of sales in comparison to stock levels on non main-line items (ie ordering 200 of a mini they really need 72 - because someone else ordered 72 and we have to be the "best" - then sit on tons of models that then get sold at 40%, 50%, 60%, 70% or worse "sales") You are the biggest buyer from a lot of your distributors so you look for "extra deals" or make bigger orders....just when the cash gets tight. This normally then starts a line of "we had a bit of an issue at the bank, or XYZ distributor double charged my account. I'll get it to you right away....while they wait for the sales to come and pay off the bill....it then gets harder for that to happen they miss payments, drown in debt, get worse at customer service because they simply CANNOT serve their clients and then stiff everyone as they go down. Any of that sound familiar to anyone? For non-recent examples just look up New Wave at its end.....

So why ramble on like this on this page? Simple. I have never met, dealt or talked with Rich except on 1 thing he sent about free models and I posted in one other thread that he was in on Dakka. But I do not think that anything I stated above is anything like his approach. He has done well on the orders I have placed, has worked hard to help other companies promote themselves (and sure, he did it in hopes of selling a lot - he is a business, it is what he should do!), has never hidden away on this forum or seemingly from emailing customers with issues, always touts his store from a customer service angle rather than the "we're your cheap source for XYZ.." He also obviously was able to weather the "eurozone/australia" blockade (and sure it might have hurt him but it obviously did not sink him.). And I bet Simple Minis is pretty happy with him too. I have never used rocket hobbies, dark sphere or any of the others (mostly due to location and reasons above). I have nothing at all against any of them, I just have not formed an opinion of them. However, as Wayland has always been professional, prompt and completely satisfactory (even on those non-major line purchases I have made - like historical minis) I doubt I'll have reason to find out. I'll be buying from Wayland.

Once again - sorry for the wall of text (I know some of this should have been on another thread....) It will be interesting...New Wave morphed into CMON, wonder if the same thing will happen here. I am not claiming Rich is a saint. just that everything I have seen makes it seem like he is a decent businessman. Much like Mike at Showcase here in the States. I just don't see either one doing a Maelstrom any time soon - I don't think they would ever do it to their businesses or their customers.

 frozenwastes wrote:
The problem is that you can buy the item without seeing whether or not it is in stock, but still see the same stupid green dot that doesn't mean anything and is misleading.

Everyone in this thread now knows though, that you need to click through each item and look at the actual stock levels.

Which is why I have just cancelled my first order. Green light supposedly indicates dis patch in 1-5 or 3-9 working days. After e-mailing for an update I was told it would be "wrong" to tell me when my order would bedispatched. I agree I did not fully understand the traffic light or stock level but in the end Wayland could not guarantee meeting their 1-9 working day dispatch statement. Not good enough when they already have my money. In future, if I do order again it will only be for in stock items.

I used to buy all the time before the whole embargo thing. I say they are a very good at what do, if a little slow on packing and delivery but for the price, hey ho

 frozenwastes wrote:
So you ordered something that was not in stock, but said more were on the way and the date came and went without anything shipping? Was it a pre-order of something?

If you order when there is a Qty shown as available, that will be allocated to your order. It will then join the pick/pack queue. There are some exceptions, should a stock count be found to be incorrect. As an example we are doing continous rolling stock checks when picking as erros are being picked up and corrected. (there are very few though).

Rich, I really like your new stock tracking system. I used to criticize your store on this forum for providing false information and now applaud you for providing accurate information. You've gotten me back as a customer with that change.

Though I don't understand why you still have delivery time estimates for the coloured dots that might give people a false impression of how quickly you get in out of stock items.

Given the realities of ordering from distributors,out of stock items may or may not reliable get to you, get received, picked, packed and shipped within 9 days. There are just too many variables outside of your control, so that's giving people a false impression of your ability to deliver a product you don't have yet.

Perhaps if someone orders an out of stock item that is a green regular stock item and the order has not yet been dispatched after nine days, they get an automatically generated email explaining that there have been delays getting the item in question, apologizing for the delay and thanking them for their understanding.

Similarly if someone orders something and its supposed to be in stock and turns out not to be, there should probably also be some customer contact. I used to do inventory control for a glass and housewares webstore, so I know exactly how easy it is for counts to get wrong. If the order pickers couldn't complete an order because of an inventory error, a customer service person would send a quick email to the customer advising them of any delay, apologizing and assuring them everything was still proceeding with their order.

Customers hate it when they order something online and their order appears to be in limbo with no explanation. Or worse than that an explanation that contradicts something you've already told them. "Why does it say "waiting for stock" when I ordered in stock items?" An email explaining and apologizing goes a long way in those circumstances. Even if it's automatically generated.

The easiest solution might be to remove any days estimates from those green dots now that you have live stock tracking. Or if your success rate at hitting that 9 day statement is so high you'd rather keep it, provide a little bit of extra contact for those orders in which you don't hit it.

I had some pretty bad initial experiences with them but i made my orders during the time they were changing their stocking system and i didnt realise, I made a few fairly large orders including a preorder for chaos items,

things seemed to be slow, i rang and had everythi8ng explained, all in all their explanations seemed perfectly valid to me knowing what i know about how GW works, and in the end i got what they could send me (One order was done quickly and complete) and they refunded me the balance.
I have been back a few times, I use the stock system they have, the things i really want are rarely in stock if ever but some things they have in stock, they are always processed very quickly and arrive fast. The new stock system is great and I agree it would be better if you could see the stock situation on the main listing rather than having to go into each product before adding it ot your cart.
I think as wayland develops the new system we will se more and more improvements but until then my major buys will be done elsewhere but it will not stop me being a regular customer there as their product range is good and when they have the stock you cannot fault their service in my opinion.
I am glad i went back to them even after what i thought was a complete disaster originally.