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So I finally had the pleasure of running my grotesque/haemie deathstar yesterday in a game against necrons, and DANG! I knew the unit was good in theory, but I didnt expect them to do as good as they did.

My death star is composed of: 3 grots w/ liquifier gun, 3 haemies w/ 3 liquifier guns and 3 venom blades, and a super kitted out archon all in a raider with no attachments. The reason I had the archon with them was because I was expecting for their transport to be popped pretty early on and would thus really benefit from his oober cc and he would likewise from T5.

The first unit I pull up to is a 10 man squad of immortals w/ lord. Now I was rolling good for my ap most the game so that was part of it. Anyways the immortal squad is completely annihilated by my 4 liquifier guns. A turn or two passes by and I pull up to another 10 man immortal squad w/ lord and likewise they are also obliterated by my 4 liquifier guns. Finally I pull up to a 10 man lych guard squad with shields and immotek. I only manage to kill off like 4, but that is only due to the fact that my opponent saved 11 out of his 15 invunerable saves! seriously I have never seen so many 4++ saves made.

so is it just the army I was playing or is a grot/haemie star actually a viable option? please let me know what you think and if anyone else has had the chance to try out something similar!

Ok, I'll confess. When I saw "DE Grot Star" I immediately thought:

"What? DE and Grots (orks) work well together?"

flaming tadpole wrote:
So I finally had the pleasure of running my grotesque/haemie deathstar yesterday in a game against necrons, and DANG! I knew the unit was good in theory, but I didnt expect them to do as good as they did.

My death star is composed of: 3 grots w/ liquifier gun, 3 haemies w/ 3 liquifier guns and 3 venom blades, and a super kitted out archon all in a raider with no attachments. The reason I had the archon with them was because I was expecting for their transport to be popped pretty early on and would thus really benefit from his oober cc and he would likewise from T5.

The first unit I pull up to is a 10 man squad of immortals w/ lord. Now I was rolling good for my ap most the game so that was part of it. Anyways the immortal squad is completely annihilated by my 4 liquifier guns. A turn or two passes by and I pull up to another 10 man immortal squad w/ lord and likewise they are also obliterated by my 4 liquifier guns. Finally I pull up to a 10 man lych guard squad with shields and immotek. I only manage to kill off like 4, but that is only due to the fact that my opponent saved 11 out of his 15 invunerable saves! seriously I have never seen so many 4++ saves made.

so is it just the army I was playing or is a grot/haemie star actually a viable option? please let me know what you think and if anyone else has had the chance to try out something similar!

better to have 4 grots for more wounds at less cost and longer to keep the majority T5. Archons are nice if they have a PGL. A haemi is mandatory for the LOS. 1 haemi and the squad only gives you FNP and FC unless the archon rolls well on his combat drugs. You also def want the abberation with a venom blade. 5 attacks that reroll to wound 2+ is awesome.
against crons you have to avoid the death ray.

Hanith wrote:
Ok, I'll confess. When I saw "DE Grot Star" I immediately thought:

"What? DE and Grots (orks) work well together?"

Me too.

My eyes skipped to the second paragraph and I saw: "3 grots w/ liquifier gun".

Grots can take WHAT now?

Hanith wrote:
Ok, I'll confess. When I saw "DE Grot Star" I immediately thought:

"What? DE and Grots (orks) work well together?"

haha same!

I thought, oh this will be interesting, ork grots and deathstar in the same sentence!

I second Exergy with saying a VB on the aberation is must have, you get +1 attack for having 2 CCW's as well. Also consider a succubus with the grots, at I8 it greatly affects their sweeping advance chances, escaping if they wiff combat and run which can happen, and also by catching their opponent. The succy is also really cheap, and offers 6 more 3+ hit 2+ wound +combat drug chances to the mix on the charge.

From my experience 4 grots with succy, in raider with ethersails is the most cost effective loadout. Move flat out ontop of your opponent, watch the raider get destroyed, sit in the crater, tank the shooting so the rest of your army lives(archon with PGL is also good for this, due to stealth within 8 inches) and then charge everything. Preferably the rest of your army is also high threat, high saturation, reavers, hellions, haywire wyches, incubi all in transports.

Steffo wrote:
I second Exergy with saying a VB on the aberation is must have, you get +1 attack for having 2 CCW's as well. Also consider a succubus with the grots, at I8 it greatly affects their sweeping advance chances, escaping if they wiff combat and run which can happen, and also by catching their opponent. The succy is also really cheap, and offers 6 more 3+ hit 2+ wound +combat drug chances to the mix on the charge.

From my experience 4 grots with succy, in raider with ethersails is the most cost effective loadout. Move flat out ontop of your opponent, watch the raider get destroyed, sit in the crater, tank the shooting so the rest of your army lives(archon with PGL is also good for this, due to stealth within 8 inches) and then charge everything. Preferably the rest of your army is also high threat, high saturation, reavers, hellions, haywire wyches, incubi all in transports.

getting fearless is really important for these guys, so I can almost understand the 2 haemis

 Exergy wrote:


getting fearless is really important for these guys, so I can almost understand the 2 haemis

It is certainly handy and if you want to stack liquifiers which is very cool then sure, but you are paying 50 points or more for something you can get after your first combat, and with their movement that is usually turn 2. Initiate 8 also mitigates the downside of not being fearless since it is very unlikely that you will be swept it also means it is almost certain you sweep your opponent. Stacking liquifiers also reduces the chances that your target will be alive to be charged which could be dangerous if you are facing a gun line and want to be in combat. However Liquifiers are great charge deterrents, i would definitely think twice or three times before charging 4 of them with the reward for getting through having to fight a mean unit of grots, but i have found my opponents don't really want to charge my grots, so they just shoot them, so liquifiers just seem to hinder my effort of getting the unit into combat.

The main issue with grots i have found is getting them to survive the first wave of shooting, but if they tank everything then they have done there job, if they survive then they can threaten everything. The next main issue is wiffing combat and getting swept. Fearless would stop the unit getting swept but you are more likely to win combat with the succy and very likely to escape if you wiff, and you can get fearless after one combat if you take a hammy as well, which i don't since i need the points elsewhere usually to cram reavers down my opponents throat.

Steffo wrote:

 Exergy wrote:


getting fearless is really important for these guys, so I can almost understand the 2 haemis

It is certainly handy and if you want to stack liquifiers which is very cool then sure, but you are paying 50 points or more for something you can get after your first combat, and with their movement that is usually turn 2. Initiate 8 also mitigates the downside of not being fearless since it is very unlikely that you will be swept it also means it is almost certain you sweep your opponent. Stacking liquifiers also reduces the chances that your target will be alive to be charged which could be dangerous if you are facing a gun line and want to be in combat. However Liquifiers are great charge deterrents, i would definitely think twice or three times before charging 4 of them with the reward for getting through having to fight a mean unit of grots, but i have found my opponents don't really want to charge my grots, so they just shoot them, so liquifiers just seem to hinder my effort of getting the unit into combat.

listen, I think starting with FC and FNP is ok. I prefer the archon as i like the shadowfield, the huskblade, and the PGL. Then you also want to give your haemi and your archon haywire grenades to help them with dreads. I just think it is important to be thinking"I gotta kill something FAST" when you take these guys. Get the 3rd pain token ASAP


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Steffo wrote:


The main issue with grots i have found is getting them to survive the first wave of shooting, but if they tank everything then they have done there job, if they survive then they can threaten everything. The next main issue is wiffing combat and getting swept. Fearless would stop the unit getting swept but you are more likely to win combat with the succy and very likely to escape if you wiff, and you can get fearless after one combat if you take a hammy as well, which i don't since i need the points elsewhere usually to cram reavers down my opponents throat.

I tend to use the haemi as my wound catcher. Put him up front and have him LOS incoming shots back to different grots. I dont want to use the archon for that, because I dont want him in front for things like MSS. With his init, if he gets charged he will get into combat just fine.

Hanith wrote:
Ok, I'll confess. When I saw "DE Grot Star" I immediately thought:

"What? DE and Grots (orks) work well together?"

LOL! I actually thought the same thing at first, I was just too lazy to finish the word so I went with the abbreviation

Though now that you mentioned it, I kinda want to do that now!

I second the discussion around Fearless Grotesques. They are too expensive and too many wounds to risk getting swept. There are two ways to accomplish this:

1) Use a character with Fearless. Vect is the only one in our codex who could lead them. Alternatively, if you are willing to let them walk, you could include a Pheonix Lord^ from the Eldar codex.
2) Start them with 3 pain tokens. It has been mentioned to use multiple Haemonculi to accomplish this, and that's great, but as has been pointed out you lose out on a Grotesque in your transport (assuming you want another IC in there). Personally, I like Urien. If you think he's too expensive for what he does, then so be it, but he guarantees that they will be Fearless while only taking one spot on the transport (saving room for an Archon/Succubus and still allowing 4 Grotesques). He's also one of the hardiest Warlords in the game, and one of the toughest we have available (it's a toss-up with Drazhar, who loses because of his squad limit). Also, making them stronger is always nice, although it costs more points.

Personally, I run foot Grotesques, but if I ran Raider Grotesques, I would still use Urien over the three Haemonculi most likely. If I had three squads of Grotesques, obviously I would run Haemonculi instead.

Also, you should check out hyv3mynd's reports in the battle report section (or on his blog HERE *I'm amazed at how often I've plugged his blog at this point, it seriously is incredible) to see how he uses his Grotesque deathstar. He utilizes multiple ICs that, depending on the matchup/circumstances, confer any number of benefits to his Grotesques.

^As far as Pheonix Lords are concerned, the only stinkers are Jain Zar and Asurman. Kharandras and Fuegan provide AP2 and Infiltrate/Tank Hunters respectively, Maugan Ra provides some nice ranged firepower, and (possibly becoming my favorite in the future) Baharroth provides Hit & Run. H&R and Fearless on a multi-wound deathstar is a nice combination!


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 Exergy wrote:
You also def want the abberation with a venom blade. 5 attacks that reroll to wound 2+ is awesome.

Personally I'm partial to the Mindphase Gauntlet. The most concerning things for my Grotesques (besides Manticores/Demolishers) are S10 Thunderhammers/TMC, as there are a lot of Grey Knights and Tyranids around here. The Gauntlet helps me reduce the risk of Instant Death by negating their attacks. Otherwise though, you are correct that the Venom Blade Aberration is fantastic. With the changes to the poison rules, the Scissorhand looks nice as well (as you're paying 10 points for an extra attack, which is what you're typically doing anyway with squad leaders that are optional).

I do a haemonculi coven army, which is a lot of fun, two squads of 5/6 one led by Urien and another led a Haemi (I can usually rely on getting 2 extra pain tokens to make them both fearless, if I only get 1 then I can usually get another, because with that toughness and and wounds I can get to the other side and kill something before they need to take any fear checks.

But I am also toying with changing up my list slightly, adding in either a farseer with divination and pathfinders, which works out nicely, because no matter what powers I roll I can use him by either sticking him with the grots (4++ and re-roll misses) or pathfinders (ignore cover and bull BS overwatch). Or I am thinking of doing Mad Doc Grotsnik (I think is the one) who can add 5++ to any units in the army.

Wow you guys were right about taking an abberation, just ran him in a game wih scissorhand. 7 poisoned (3+) attacks with re-rolls on the charge is pretty crazy! I was in cc with a dreaknight too which made even more epic when he was not only wounding on 3's but getting to re-roll too.


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BTW dreadknight still won it was just kind of cool seeing the abberation dish out the pain like that

I was expecting a deathstar of Grots :*(

 Exergy wrote:
... 5 attacks that reroll to wound 2+ is awesome...

Unfortunately, since the new FAQ Venom Blades no longer re-roll to wound if S>T. Sad but true, so Flesh Gauntlet/Scissorhand is probably better, if a little more expensive.

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
... 5 attacks that reroll to wound 2+ is awesome...

Unfortunately, since the new FAQ Venom Blades no longer re-roll to wound if S>T. Sad but true, so Flesh Gauntlet/Scissorhand is probably better, if a little more expensive.

Exactly which FAQ is this and whereabouts? I don't see anything about that

somerandomdude wrote:

^As far as Pheonix Lords are concerned, the only stinkers are Jain Zar and Asurman. Kharandras and Fuegan provide AP2 and Infiltrate/Tank Hunters respectively, Maugan Ra provides some nice ranged firepower, and (possibly becoming my favorite in the future) Baharroth provides Hit & Run. H&R and Fearless on a multi-wound deathstar is a nice combination!

Phoenix lords only give their non-exarch powers to the unit. So, Infiltrate and Tank hunters are not given to the unit, just the Lords themselves. I'd say Fuegan is your best choice for hanging with Grots due to AP2 at initiative and deadly when shooting. Ra is not bad either.


Also, I don't see where they would lose re-rolls on poison.

 lord_bobbington wrote:
Exactly which FAQ is this and whereabouts? I don't see anything about that

Because venom blades are no longer poisoned weapons. They have fleshbane, which does not confer rerolls :/

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:

 lord_bobbington wrote:
Exactly which FAQ is this and whereabouts? I don't see anything about that

Because venom blades are no longer poisoned weapons. They have fleshbane, which does not confer rerolls :/

Stop trolling us.

 Niiai wrote:

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:

 lord_bobbington wrote:
Exactly which FAQ is this and whereabouts? I don't see anything about that

Because venom blades are no longer poisoned weapons. They have fleshbane, which does not confer rerolls :/

Stop trolling us.

I'd hope it's a troll, I'd despair of someone thinking that was actually true

I apologise profusely, I must have seen that in a 3rd party FAQ. I didn't check my facts before posting, but the 1.1 DE FAQ contains no mention of the venom blade at all.

So no, not a troll but also not true. Thankfully. Sorry to all! >.>

Back on topic, I'm hoping to run a footslogging Grot unit once my fledgeling DE force gets boosted. As of now, will be running with a VB...

NamelessBard wrote:

somerandomdude wrote:

^As far as Pheonix Lords are concerned, the only stinkers are Jain Zar and Asurman. Kharandras and Fuegan provide AP2 and Infiltrate/Tank Hunters respectively, Maugan Ra provides some nice ranged firepower, and (possibly becoming my favorite in the future) Baharroth provides Hit & Run. H&R and Fearless on a multi-wound deathstar is a nice combination!

Phoenix lords only give their non-exarch powers to the unit. So, Infiltrate and Tank hunters are not given to the unit, just the Lords themselves. I'd say Fuegan is your best choice for hanging with Grots due to AP2 at initiative and deadly when shooting. Ra is not bad either.


Also, I don't see where they would lose re-rolls on poison.

Not quite true.

Pheonix Lords to not confer their abilities - this is true. But the 6th edition rulebook doesn't care about that. All Infiltrate, Tank Hunters, and several other abilities say is "if one or more models in the unit has [this rule]..." or something similar.

So let's look at the situation:

1) Fuegan is attached to a unit of Sniperborn.
2) Fuegan has an Exarch power which gives him and all Fire Dragons in his unit Tank Hunters.
_____ Therefore, Fuegan has Tank Hunters.

Can you dispute this?

Then:

1) Fuegan has Tank Hunters
2) The rulebook says: A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule [benefits].
3) The unit contains at least one model with Tank Hunters.
_____ Therefore, the unit as a whole benefits from Tank Hunters.