Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I'm still a bit lost about this chart they've put out?

Is it just "share this to cook the books and get a Santana to people who wanted one as we are under 500 actual pledges" or is it something more than that?

Yes, it's that and that's the (selfish) problem right there: What's in it for me, the tabletop level pledger? Because I'm sure as hell not going to up my pledge for a few reasons.

 Alkasyn wrote:

So true, I feel the same. I've heard positive stuff about the game and was at some point in the past choosing between Malifaux and Infinity. Now I know I won't ever touch Malifaux, and some of the banter in this topic is indeed awesomely depressing

I do enjoy lots of things about Malifaux, but Wyrd seem to be having a bit of a personality change from when I first started the game a couple of years ago. Whether its a "we are bigger now, so have to act that way" change or just me, I don't know. Sort of the way I'm feeling about them though and this KS is reinforcing that for me.

Doubt I'll expand my Arcanists beyond what they are at the moment, which is quite a bit. Actually, I've not painted Kaeris yet and forgot about the box I've sitting there.

 Alkasyn wrote:
Now I know I won't ever touch Malifaux..

Now this is being too cynical. The figures are great and the miniatures game is good, too. Don't pledge if you don't see any value but also don't let this kickstarter affect how you view the Malifaux miniature game.

 Breotan wrote:

 Alkasyn wrote:
Now I know I won't ever touch Malifaux..

Now this is being too cynical. The figures are great and the miniatures game is good, too. Don't pledge if you don't see any value but also don't let this kickstarter affect how you view the Malifaux miniature game.

The thing is, projects such as this Kickstarter are also there to expand the brand and promote the company. I have seen how the company is run and how it responds to problems, and I do not need to get into a mess like that, I already collect Space Marines and got enough of corporate drama

 Buzzsaw wrote:
If anything, I'm almost outraged on behalf of Mr. Martin: he's not running the campaign, we know that, so he has to soldier along. To put him out there, to answer the complaints of low value, of poor communication and people not believing the posted book plan, to answer those complaints and no doubt others I'm forgetting, with yet another gimmick designed to maybe salvage what was obviously intended to be an irresistible sweetener... outrageous.

The behavior of the management of this campaign is seriously impacting my impression of Wyrd as a company.

Okay, that makes more sense. I was just wondering at that reaction, since clearly people can't blame the guy for doing his job (as he's definitely doing!). To be upset on his behalf is different. He's actually salvaged Wyrd from "Don't touch with a 10-foot pole" to "Wow, LCB has always looked pretty awesome to me, hmmmmmm" for me after the start of the campaign did the opposite.

I'd actually be interested in this game (not this Kickstarter) if folks near me played. As it is, I'll definitely keep an eye out if they do.

Btw what is a secret backer?

Alkasyn wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 Alkasyn wrote:
Now I know I won't ever touch Malifaux..

Now this is being too cynical. The figures are great and the miniatures game is good, too. Don't pledge if you don't see any value but also don't let this kickstarter affect how you view the Malifaux miniature game.

The thing is, projects such as this Kickstarter are also there to expand the brand and promote the company. I have seen how the company is run and how it responds to problems, and I do not need to get into a mess like that, I already collect Space Marines and got enough of corporate drama

The majority of the time, Wyrd has very little issues with their product. The game is balanced with the exception of a few outliers that are being reigned in (Hamelin, I'm looking at you, you rat loving so and so), or given the tools to help the old fogies like some Book 1 masters compete with "better" masters from other factions (ressers are notorious for needing the boost because a lot of their stuff requires dead bodies on the board, which doesn't really happen until end game). But within the past year (basically when I started being a henchman and looking at the company, etc... more than I did before that), Wyrd has had 3 "snafus". The first is GenCon shipping, which they apparently have issues with every year. I want to liken it to Privateer Press's shipping issues like 2 years ago. They usually have the stock, it's just a matter of people around the world ordering stuff when the majority of the staff and crew are in Indy, gak's gonna get backlogged. The second is Avatar Hoffman. aHoffman is currently the only model from book 3 that hasn't been released. He was supposed to be released in November, but there were some unexplained issues. I'm sure it had to do with the casting of the model. I'm assuming the large construct that carries hoff is gonna be like aMcMourning's Simulacrum 29 and is a giant piece of resin. The third has been the mismanagement of the kickstarter. Everything else Wyrd has done has been top notch. Their first world wide campaign went off without a hitch, and was well received by the community, and Kaeris should be getting her Alt sculpt soon. Barring the Hungering Darkness's model, the new plastics have been well received minus the fact you can't get the models individually (but I believe I'm the only one bitching about that lol). And Book 4 with the inclusion of a 6th faction as well as the advancement of the story has been well received. Wyrd makes very few missteps in their production schedule.

Don't knock the game just because a single aspect of their company faltered. I have no doubt, based on Mack's previous works, that this will be a good game. I have no doubts that the KS rewards will be fulfilled. I do have doubts that this will garner much more money than it already has, and that saddens me a bit.

RiTides wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:
If anything, I'm almost outraged on behalf of Mr. Martin: he's not running the campaign, we know that, so he has to soldier along. To put him out there, to answer the complaints of low value, of poor communication and people not believing the posted book plan, to answer those complaints and no doubt others I'm forgetting, with yet another gimmick designed to maybe salvage what was obviously intended to be an irresistible sweetener... outrageous.

The behavior of the management of this campaign is seriously impacting my impression of Wyrd as a company.

Okay, that makes more sense. I was just wondering at that reaction, since clearly people can't blame the guy for doing his job (as he's definitely doing!). To be upset on his behalf is different. He's actually salvaged Wyrd from "Don't touch with a 10-foot pole" to "Wow, LCB has always looked pretty awesome to me, hmmmmmm" for me after the start of the campaign did the opposite.

I'd actually be interested in this game (not this Kickstarter) if folks near me played. As it is, I'll definitely keep an eye out if they do.

Steve, you obviously don't pay attention to the DCM AdeptiCon thread Gym plays Malifaux, she's one member of our Cake Tournament Team, I need to give her a refresher on the rules via Vassal, and wouldn't mind giving you one too at the same time.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

raven2100 wrote:
Btw what is a secret backer?

A secret backer is the "unlisted" pledge level for those that back 500 dollars or more. Idk why they didn't just list it in normal rewards, but it's the 225 dollar level plus one of the following three rewards:
1) You get to play in the Canon Campaign with Mack at GenCon
2) You get art of your character added to the book
3) You get your Hannah model professionally painted.

For every 250 dollars beyond 500 you can add one more of those rewards to your pledge. It's down on the main page, probably by the bottom at this point.

Simply put the update wasn't quite like I was expecting. I won't go so far as to say its a bad thing, but at the same time I wouldn't say it's a good thing. It's really something they should have been doing from the begining.

It's going to be interesting to see the rest of what they have planned for this week as originally Mack made it sound like we'd be seeing more then one thing.

I think this campaign would have been much better off if Mack handeled the updates from the beginning. Who ever started off doing them came off as cold and uncaring. Mack however gets me excited to play the game.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Alkasyn wrote:

So true, I feel the same. I've heard positive stuff about the game and was at some point in the past choosing between Malifaux and Infinity. Now I know I won't ever touch Malifaux, and some of the banter in this topic is indeed awesomely depressing

I do enjoy lots of things about Malifaux, but Wyrd seem to be having a bit of a personality change from when I first started the game a couple of years ago. Whether its a "we are bigger now, so have to act that way" change or just me, I don't know. Sort of the way I'm feeling about them though and this KS is reinforcing that for me.

Doubt I'll expand my Arcanists beyond what they are at the moment, which is quite a bit. Actually, I've not painted Kaeris yet and forgot about the box I've sitting there.

+2 to this.

Not only have they lost thier minds, they have lost the skull that the brain recently vacated. Pesonality change is a nice way to put it.

It started for me with the change to plastic, and the increase in models price. THEN we go to the holier then thou KS project of horror that is mutating into a WTF moment of epic proportions.

I have the original book, two or three gangs, and was on the way to get a few more before the train wreck. NOW? I'm good with my own couple of factions, and am more or less going to paint those up and sell them off.

When they started out, Wierd was "One of the boyz". You could have some reactions to some of the stuff, have a few ooohs, and ahhs with the new stuff coming out almost on a regular basis, but then as the helltrain flew off the tracks, some of the standards that they established have slacked off to the point of average and the sculpts and chara cterization of the established characters has been comprimised to "JUST SELL stuffs".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrookM wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I'm still a bit lost about this chart they've put out?

Is it just "share this to cook the books and get a Santana to people who wanted one as we are under 500 actual pledges" or is it something more than that?

Yes, it's that and that's the (selfish) problem right there: What's in it for me, the tabletop level pledger? Because I'm sure as hell not going to up my pledge for a few reasons.

And to this, seriously?

That selfishness is going BOTH ways on this one.

Wierd is just playing to the masses and mentality that KS has evolved to a science. It isn't nessesarily selfishness, either- Its sales, even if they all want to amuse themselves with the illusion that "KS is not a sales site..."

Look at the way this thing is evolving like the preverbial box of cats? People want one thing, the project morphs into what they want. the other people want something different, they get that as well. All with the added charm of- We're doing it because we love our fans!!!( nevermind thier money!)

 Grot 6 wrote:
It started for me with the change to plastic, and the increase in models price.

I must be confused, where did the model prices go up? Yes Jakob Lynch's box is on the high end (possibly one of the most expensive boxes), but all the new plastics are decently priced. The metal rats seem to be gakky in price, but everything else is right around where the metal prices were.

When they started out, Wyrd was "One of the boyz". You could have some reactions to some of the stuff, have a few ooohs, and ahhs with the new stuff coming out almost on a regular basis, but then as the helltrain flew off the tracks, some of the standards that they established have slacked off to the point of average and the sculpts and characterization of the established characters has been compromised to "JUST SELL" stuffs.

Again, I'm interested in examples of this. I honestly would love to hear your opinions on this.

I suppose avatars could be seen as something which increases the cost of having your options available significantly... If you play in hypercompetitive meta and cheap is a higher priority than varied to you?

 Bolognesus wrote:
I suppose avatars could be seen as something which increases the cost of having your options available significantly... If you play in hypercompetitive meta and cheap is a higher priority than varied to you?

From personal experiance with the tournaments I've run at various conventions the avatars aren't that common except for a few masters. The majority of the winners I've had have either not included the avatar in their crew or never manifested it.

 Bolognesus wrote:
I suppose avatars could be seen as something which increases the cost of having your options available significantly... If you play in hypercompetitive meta and cheap is a higher priority than varied to you?

Except that in rare cases, Seamus and Ramos, the Avatar isn't worth the cost in money or points spent to take. Most of the avatars change the playstyle of the master, and it's not always "for the better". aRamos and aSeamus improve what the master already does. aRamos gets better at making spiders and electrical creations, and aSeamus gets better at the terrifying game (and becomes somewhat of a melee brute in the process). Most avatars are lateral jumps. You go from doing one thing really well to doing something else really well. aSonnia goes from direct damage fire spells to burning auras that damage things around her. aPandora goes from being the mobile little Wp master she is to an immobile center of board controller that does just as much damage as her regular form (you just give up the ability to push her 4 inches every time she wins a Wp duel), but you do get a free version of Candy. aRasputina becomes a melee survivor and loses most of her spell casting abilities, etc... With few exceptions, Avatars aren't auto-includes and they're not "epic" versions of the masters. They're simply another tool with which to play the game .

Though I have heard aZoraida is a beast, but I haven't seen her on the board lol

Crap, ninja'd by Caty

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Alkasyn wrote:

So true, I feel the same. I've heard positive stuff about the game and was at some point in the past choosing between Malifaux and Infinity. Now I know I won't ever touch Malifaux, and some of the banter in this topic is indeed awesomely depressing

I do enjoy lots of things about Malifaux, but Wyrd seem to be having a bit of a personality change from when I first started the game a couple of years ago. Whether its a "we are bigger now, so have to act that way" change or just me, I don't know. Sort of the way I'm feeling about them though and this KS is reinforcing that for me.
.

This is it for me. The personality change that's happened has been really....odd. To me, it started at GenCon 2012 when they were much less receptive than they seemed to be in the past. It was peculiar. They just seem more....distant. When I asked to get my copy of EBO at GenCon, it just seemed like it was a big old hassle and that I was bothering them quite a bit (and bear in mind, I had a giant Wyrd bag in my hand). It was really frustrating to me.

I was excited to find out Mack was going to be working with them, because every single interaction I've ever had with him has been wholly positive. Maybe he can help to infuse the positive energy that seems to be lacking.

And here's where my dilema lies:

First, I feel a bit slighted because apparently my patronage, with it's critiques of questionable practices and the want of "more" from a company I (used to) quite like seems far less valued than the patronage of the blind fanatic. That's frustrating, as I'd wager I have as much invested in the game as many of those other folks, if not more (been collecting since Origins 2009 when we first saw the game, have 2 full factions in Arcanists and Guild and about half of the Neverborn & Outcasts).

Second, I actually really like the game, and my wife likes the game. The chances of my giving up easily on a wargame my wife is willing to play is slim to none. She more or less hates miniature wargaming, but likes Malifaux. Ain't gonna quit that.

So I'm at a crossroads. There's really no reason for me to back, as the Hannah model will be made available elsewhere, but I'm still holding on waiting for them to give me a reason. But they just won't. Couple that with the fact that we haven't heard high or low of the stretch goals from EBO and the strange new attitude Wyrd is presenting and I'm having a hard time thinking my money is going to stick.

I'll wait until the last few hours to see if they change my mind, but man....it's not looking like they will, and that disappoints me a lot.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
I suppose avatars could be seen as something which increases the cost of having your options available significantly... If you play in hypercompetitive meta and cheap is a higher priority than varied to you?

Except that in rare cases, Seamus and Ramos, the Avatar isn't worth the cost in money or points spent to take. Most of the avatars change the playstyle of the master, and it's not always "for the better". aRamos and aSeamus improve what the master already does. aRamos gets better at making spiders and electrical creations, and aSeamus gets better at the terrifying game (and becomes somewhat of a melee brute in the process). Most avatars are lateral jumps. You go from doing one thing really well to doing something else really well. aSonnia goes from direct damage fire spells to burning auras that damage things around her. aPandora goes from being the mobile little Wp master she is to an immobile center of board controller that does just as much damage as her regular form (you just give up the ability to push her 4 inches every time she wins a Wp duel), but you do get a free version of Candy. aRasputina becomes a melee survivor and loses most of her spell casting abilities, etc... With few exceptions, Avatars aren't auto-includes and they're not "epic" versions of the masters. They're simply another tool with which to play the game .

Though I have heard aZoraida is a beast, but I haven't seen her on the board lol

Crap, ninja'd by Caty

Oh I wasn't saying it's actually the case - just that when I first looked into it, it kind of felt like that to me, too.
...Of course then I realized providing more options is generally a good thing - if it needs to be as cheap as possible there's always chess

The price per model well, I got a bit of sticker shock looking at some of the individual model boxes at the FLGS - then again, €30ish for a fancy model isn't that far out - and I believe those bigger models especially are a relatively recent thing?
Then again, from someone who trumps WM/H of all things as the right kind of pricing I can't see how even the most expensive malifaux models could even make him blink...
(Let's just say that the price tag on those bane thralls still makes me wince - and I didn't even pony up for them in the end )

(nice one on that sig quote, btw. original )

 Alfndrate wrote:

RiTides wrote:

I'd actually be interested in this game (not this Kickstarter) if folks near me played. As it is, I'll definitely keep an eye out if they do.

Steve, you obviously don't pay attention to the DCM AdeptiCon thread Gym plays Malifaux, she's one member of our Cake Tournament Team, I need to give her a refresher on the rules via Vassal, and wouldn't mind giving you one too at the same time.

I read that as RiTides would potentially be interested in playing the RPG, but not participating in the RPG kickstarter. I did just PM him with a little info. Yes, we will have a local nexus of players when the game comes out, but I'm not the FM, so it isn't up to me who will sit at the table.

 Bolognesus wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
I suppose avatars could be seen as something which increases the cost of having your options available significantly... If you play in hypercompetitive meta and cheap is a higher priority than varied to you?

The price per model well, I got a bit of sticker shock looking at some of the individual model boxes at the FLGS - then again, €30ish for a fancy model isn't that far out - and I believe those bigger models especially are a relatively recent thing?
Then again, from someone who trumps WM/H of all things as the right kind of pricing I can't see how even the most expensive malifaux models could even make him blink...
(Let's just say that the price tag on those bane thralls still makes me wince - and I didn't even pony up for them in the end )

(nice one on that sig quote, btw. original )

Oh yeah, feel you there. Hello Trollbloods Tuffalos. $110 of yikes! And then you have to green stuff all the gaps

I think the Malifaux models are priced about right for the market. I just got a Lady J avatar finally because I got it on FRP's clearance sale. That model is overpriced at $45. I got Demo Willie from that sale as well, and I also feel he's a bit overpriced at $20. Just a very thin, small model, and when the GW plastic blisters are going for $13-$20, I think he's a bit on the high side. Everything else I have I've been fairly okay with the pricing, I think.

Bolognesus wrote:

Spoiler:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
I suppose avatars could be seen as something which increases the cost of having your options available significantly... If you play in hypercompetitive meta and cheap is a higher priority than varied to you?

Except that in rare cases, Seamus and Ramos, the Avatar isn't worth the cost in money or points spent to take. Most of the avatars change the playstyle of the master, and it's not always "for the better". aRamos and aSeamus improve what the master already does. aRamos gets better at making spiders and electrical creations, and aSeamus gets better at the terrifying game (and becomes somewhat of a melee brute in the process). Most avatars are lateral jumps. You go from doing one thing really well to doing something else really well. aSonnia goes from direct damage fire spells to burning auras that damage things around her. aPandora goes from being the mobile little Wp master she is to an immobile center of board controller that does just as much damage as her regular form (you just give up the ability to push her 4 inches every time she wins a Wp duel), but you do get a free version of Candy. aRasputina becomes a melee survivor and loses most of her spell casting abilities, etc... With few exceptions, Avatars aren't auto-includes and they're not "epic" versions of the masters. They're simply another tool with which to play the game .

Though I have heard aZoraida is a beast, but I haven't seen her on the board lol

Crap, ninja'd by Caty

Oh I wasn't saying it's actually the case - just that when I first looked into it, it kind of felt like that to me, too.
...Of course then I realized providing more options is generally a good thing - if it needs to be as cheap as possible there's always chess

The price per model well, I got a bit of sticker shock looking at some of the individual model boxes at the FLGS - then again, €30ish for a fancy model isn't that far out - and I believe those bigger models especially are a relatively recent thing?
Then again, from someone who trumps WM/H of all things as the right kind of pricing I can't see how even the most expensive malifaux models could even make him blink...
(Let's just say that the price tag on those bane thralls still makes me wince - and I didn't even pony up for them in the end )

(nice one on that sig quote, btw. original )

I know, but when it comes to the "this game has crazy pricing!" many people look at Avatars and models like Nekima, Snow Storm, and a few other large models. Most of the large based models are priced similarly to their cost in game. Nekima and Snow Storm are both more than 10 points, and while I believe Snow Storm is a better model (and technically 2 models), he is very expensive for a hunk of pewter. Nekima gets more flak because she's unloved due to her rules. Though her model is as solid as a fething rock. The Avatars get the largest amount of hate because they're 2 points an avatar (so low in game cost), but they're all like 30+ dollars a model.

Gymnogyps wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

RiTides wrote:

I'd actually be interested in this game (not this Kickstarter) if folks near me played. As it is, I'll definitely keep an eye out if they do.

Steve, you obviously don't pay attention to the DCM AdeptiCon thread Gym plays Malifaux, she's one member of our Cake Tournament Team, I need to give her a refresher on the rules via Vassal, and wouldn't mind giving you one too at the same time.

I read that as RiTides would potentially be interested in playing the RPG, but not participating in the RPG kickstarter. I did just PM him with a little info. Yes, we will have a local nexus of players when the game comes out, but I'm not the FM, so it isn't up to me who will sit at the table.

I'm sure he wants to play the RPG as well, but he made a comment about LCB (Lord Chompy Bits) and I thought he was talking about the Skirmish game lol mah bad if he wasn't.

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
I suppose avatars could be seen as something which increases the cost of having your options available significantly... If you play in hypercompetitive meta and cheap is a higher priority than varied to you?

From personal experiance with the tournaments I've run at various conventions the avatars aren't that common except for a few masters. The majority of the winners I've had have either not included the avatar in their crew or never manifested it.

I think avatars was Wyrd first bit of a stumble. I've seen them at a tournament here and there, and a malifaux mad chap at the club uses one regularly, but aside from that they just don't seem to be that popular at all. Theres got to be 7-8 semi regular Malifaux players (inc a henchman), but few people use them. Big buzz and lots of chatter about them in the build up to release, then.........................nothing really.

I'll follow Wyrd for while yet and still play malifaux, but TBH theres not much they are doing that grabs me at the moment. This cutesy gingerbread guff fails hard on a grumpy old man like me! Do need to get a Blessed of December at some point though.

Saw this KS for the RPG and though "yep, just the thing to get back into the 'faux after being out of it for a while". Shame its sort of confirmed a lot of feeling I've had building for a while.

*edit* I've found the plastics to be costly for what they are. Its plastic minis priced like metal ones. Bit close to GW style for me, that one.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
It started for me with the change to plastic, and the increase in models price.

I must be confused, where did the model prices go up? Yes Jakob Lynch's box is on the high end (possibly one of the most expensive boxes), but all the new plastics are decently priced. The metal rats seem to be gakky in price, but everything else is right around where the metal prices were.

When they started out, Wyrd was "One of the boyz". You could have some reactions to some of the stuff, have a few ooohs, and ahhs with the new stuff coming out almost on a regular basis, but then as the helltrain flew off the tracks, some of the standards that they established have slacked off to the point of average and the sculpts and characterization of the established characters has been compromised to "JUST SELL" stuffs.

Again, I'm interested in examples of this. I honestly would love to hear your opinions on this.

The prices are up at my local and not so local FGS's.

Heres an example at FRP. Note that FRP prices are pretty good on a bad day.

http://www.frpgames.com/cart.php?skip=0&m=product_list&c=1514

There is FRP's Malfaux stuff. We could talk about the scenery sets, as well? the kits in person are around 40 plus bucks.

I picked up my first box for 25 bucks. the blisters were 10 or so.

Not that we can go on to see the stuff in the store? MY local game store that will remain nameless has a full rack at PP prices. ( not including tax, not including discount)

Including BOTH of this? they nullify each other.

By and BY?! Look at the prices of the scenery sets- 18 for the clips? Whats up with that? basicly a set of heavy cardstock pieces, and without the clips- which cost 18 bucks additionally.

No. I'm sorry, but theres a point where it's not fun with stuff like that. Its underhanded and the "Game" suffers because its getting to GW levels of overpriced. ( we do it because we can, you can complain, but the beatings will continue 'till moral improves.)

Example of Nubah two?

The KS is a train wreck. people can cry all they want on how it isn't ONE or two guys thing? It doesn't matter. the company face is on the attitude promoted by this project. I for one get it. You need cash, you have games to make/ sell. Problem is when youo see the pricing already, then the disingenuous attitude in which the spokeman is shilling this thing.

I for one would have loved a RPG for malfaux, but not with the ill feelings that this is giving me as a gamer. I know it's not personal, but as the game is getting bigger, I'm seeing a corresponding attitude getting bigger as well.

"First, I feel a bit slighted because apparently my patronage, with it's critiques of questionable practices and the want of "more" from a company I (used to) quite like seems far less valued than the patronage of the blind fanatic. That's frustrating, as I'd wager I have as much invested in the game as many of those other folks, if not more (been collecting since Origins 2009 when we first saw the game, have 2 full factions in Arcanists and Guild and about half of the Neverborn & Outcasts). "

This hits it on the head. Seeing as I'm not the only one who feels this way. I remember when Santana was a freebee to my local game store. Then as the first few boxes came along, they had a charm to the game that was fresh.

The new car smell of the "New game" wore off. It wore off because of the attitude prevelent on thier board, and some of the vibe that it is producing with the evolution of the game itself.

Of course, milage may very.

I actually love the Avatars, but not for game purposes. They're some of the best models in the line, overall.

Sadly, in my meta, not many of the people that play are good painters.....so I've seen a lot of just turrible looking avatars.

Also: -4 Backers, -$214 so far today. I honestly didn't expect that. I'm a bit shocked that the social media encouragement hasn't drumed up ANY additional support.

Shocking, really.

Shocking, but not surprising?

 BrookM wrote:
Shocking, but not surprising?

Sigh... I guess not.

I really thought this might give them a much needed boost.

C'est la vie.

Honestly, they've probably already hit, or are really close to hitting, the Santana unlock threshold. Once they do, I predict a slight jump (nothing massive) as people migrate to a guaranteed Santana mini.

Too little too late at this stage IMHO.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
It started for me with the change to plastic, and the increase in models price.

I must be confused, where did the model prices go up? Yes Jakob Lynch's box is on the high end (possibly one of the most expensive boxes), but all the new plastics are decently priced. The metal rats seem to be gakky in price, but everything else is right around where the metal prices were.

Relic Hunters (the new Guild Master's box set) is also $40 MSRP (though a local shop will be selling it for $28), looks like that might be their new standard price. However, note that the boxes are now generally bigger, with the inclusion of the master's personal totem, rather than that being a seperate blister. The other Guild boxes are between $32 and $43 ($26 to $34 at local shop) or so, AND you have to buy the totem (if you want it). The old boxes are generally 5 models apiece, the new Guild box has 7 (Master while mounted, dismounted, totem, sidekick and 3 minions). Dark Debts (the new Neverborn master's box) is 6.

As for avatars, between the 7 players in my circle of friends there are exactly two avatars owned; Sonnia (mine) and Rasputina (a friend of mine). We're talking skilled, competitive folks, 4 of whom own pretty much an entire faction apiece, and generally have at least 1-2 crews from other factions bought or being worked on. Personally I wish the avatars did just a bit more, but at least in my case the others seem to lose more than they gain, and I'm not willing to risk 2 stones from my cache and $30+ in the hopes that maybe it'll work out to be a net benefit in the end. I don't want them to be strict upgrades, but I'd at least like them to be more than simply situational.

 Grot 6 wrote:
It wore off because of the attitude prevelent on thier board

Thier board is one of the worst going (with an annoyingly smug "we are better than GW players" attitude amongst people" and I think thats hit them as its migrated across to the KS backer comments.

Theres a particular blind fanatic on the KS that is pure comedy gold though - no convert like a recent one, eh?

On pricing, first big WTF moment for me on the pricing was the alternate sculpts costing more than the other sculpt of the exact same character!

 Grot 6 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
It started for me with the change to plastic, and the increase in models price.

I must be confused, where did the model prices go up? Yes Jakob Lynch's box is on the high end (possibly one of the most expensive boxes), but all the new plastics are decently priced. The metal rats seem to be gakky in price, but everything else is right around where the metal prices were.

When they started out, Wyrd was "One of the boyz". You could have some reactions to some of the stuff, have a few ooohs, and ahhs with the new stuff coming out almost on a regular basis, but then as the helltrain flew off the tracks, some of the standards that they established have slacked off to the point of average and the sculpts and characterization of the established characters has been compromised to "JUST SELL" stuffs.

Again, I'm interested in examples of this. I honestly would love to hear your opinions on this.

The prices are up at my local and not so local FGS's.

Heres an example at FRP. Note that FRP prices are pretty good on a bad day.

http://www.frpgames.com/cart.php?skip=0&m=product_list&c=1514

There is FRP's Malfaux stuff. We could talk about the scenery sets, as well? the kits in person are around 40 plus bucks.

I picked up my first box for 25 bucks. the blisters were 10 or so.

Not that we can go on to see the stuff in the store? MY local game store that will remain nameless has a full rack at PP prices. ( not including tax, not including discount)

Including BOTH of this? they nullify each other.

By and BY?! Look at the prices of the scenery sets- 18 for the clips? Whats up with that? basicly a set of heavy cardstock pieces, and without the clips- which cost 18 bucks additionally.

No. I'm sorry, but theres a point where it's not fun with stuff like that. Its underhanded and the "Game" suffers because its getting to GW levels of overpriced. ( we do it because we can, you can complain, but the beatings will continue 'till moral improves.)

Terraclips aren't everyone's cup of tea, and I've found that it's FAR easier to just avoid them. Until they come out with the vinyl mats they use at GenCon, Terraclips are going to be a bad investment simply because you have to buy 3 boxes to get the appropriate number of 6x6 "ground" pieces to make the bottom of your board. I bought 1 box and 1 set of clips when they were first introduced because the idea interested me, I only picked up my 2nd and 3rd boxes because I didn't have to pay for the fething clips. If you've got the time and inclination (and creativity) you can build beautiful boards with terraclips. BUT these are things I don't have, and they're also not something required to play the game with. I use GF9 scenery personally and when at the store. I tell people if they want terraclips they need 1 box of clips to 1 box of terrain. I rarely push them because they're a pain in the arse to assemble, but like I said you can get some beautiful stuff if you have the various resources I listed above. So even though we're talking about models, I'll grant you the terrain is expensive.

You must have picked your first box up far before I did, because when I bought Lady Justice and Nicodem in the summer of 2011, I paid the retail price of 35 and 29 for the two starter boxes. I don't doubt they were cheaper when they started, but prices have gone up on everything, they're not gw crazy, but model prices fluctuate with the market prices of the materials, something that no wargamer should be new to. Which was 1 (not the only) reason why they wanted to move to plastics, for stability in the material pricing.

FRP is like many other online retailers, they sell at a discount. No one is stopping you from buying from them, and the models are fairly priced and decently inexpensive. Your average single model blister ranges from 7 dollars to 11, right around where you bought your first blister at. The multi model blisters range from 11 to 21. There are always going to be outliers, and a lot of it is based on the size of the model. Snow Storm like I said earlier is a hulk of a model. It's on a 50mm base, it's technically 2 models, and it costs 35 dollars.

I'm also not sure what is "underhanded" are you talking about the clips being sold separately from the terrain? It's kind of dumb, but it's far from underhanded.

Example of Nubah two?

The KS is a train wreck. people can cry all they want on how it isn't ONE or two guys thing? It doesn't matter. the company face is on the attitude promoted by this project. I for one get it. You need cash, you have games to make/ sell. Problem is when youo see the pricing already, then the disingenuous attitude in which the spokeman is shilling this thing.

I for one would have loved a RPG for malfaux, but not with the ill feelings that this is giving me as a gamer. I know it's not personal, but as the game is getting bigger, I'm seeing a corresponding attitude getting bigger as well.

"First, I feel a bit slighted because apparently my patronage, with it's critiques of questionable practices and the want of "more" from a company I (used to) quite like seems far less valued than the patronage of the blind fanatic. That's frustrating, as I'd wager I have as much invested in the game as many of those other folks, if not more (been collecting since Origins 2009 when we first saw the game, have 2 full factions in Arcanists and Guild and about half of the Neverborn & Outcasts). "

This hits it on the head. Seeing as I'm not the only one who feels this way. I remember when Santana was a freebee to my local game store. Then as the first few boxes came along, they had a charm to the game that was fresh.

The new car smell of the "New game" wore off. It wore off because of the attitude prevelent on thier board, and some of the vibe that it is producing with the evolution of the game itself.

Of course, milage may very.

Yes, the Kickstarter is being mismanaged, and Mack is easily the spokesperson for this campaign for at least a solid two to three weeks now, and I'm sure many of these "sell, sell, sell" gimicks we're seeing are not his choice, but I can't say for sure. As for Santana, when was she a freebee to your local store? She's never been given to stores. She was a thank-you to henchmen that ran enough events during the world wide campaign or worked enough hours at GenCon. She was prize support in a few things, but there haven't been major tournaments or events really since GenCon. There were the UK masters, but you're an American, and we gave out 1 in the Dakka Painting Challenge. So, I'm not sure where that's coming from


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Forar wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
It started for me with the change to plastic, and the increase in models price.

I must be confused, where did the model prices go up? Yes Jakob Lynch's box is on the high end (possibly one of the most expensive boxes), but all the new plastics are decently priced. The metal rats seem to be gakky in price, but everything else is right around where the metal prices were.

Relic Hunters (the new Guild Master's box set) is also $40 MSRP (though a local shop will be selling it for $28), looks like that might be their new standard price. However, note that the boxes are now generally bigger, with the inclusion of the master's personal totem, rather than that being a seperate blister. The other Guild boxes are between $32 and $43 ($26 to $34 at local shop) or so, AND you have to buy the totem (if you want it). The old boxes are generally 5 models apiece, the new Guild box has 7 (Master while mounted, dismounted, totem, sidekick and 3 minions). Dark Debts (the new Neverborn master's box) is 6.

As for avatars, between the 7 players in my circle of friends there are exactly two avatars owned; Sonnia (mine) and Rasputina (a friend of mine). We're talking skilled, competitive folks, 4 of whom own pretty much an entire faction apiece, and generally have at least 1-2 crews from other factions bought or being worked on. Personally I wish the avatars did just a bit more, but at least in my case the others seem to lose more than they gain, and I'm not willing to risk 2 stones from my cache and $30+ in the hopes that maybe it'll work out to be a net benefit in the end. I don't want them to be strict upgrades, but I'd at least like them to be more than simply situational.

While Relic Hunters is 40, and Dark Debts if 40, The Thunder and Rail Crew are both 35. The 40 dollars might be the fact that there is a 50mm based model in it, but I don't know for certain, like you Forar, I'm not in on all the details.

And there it is, the Avatars hate I was talking about. I told ya they'd get flak because of their price . I own/ed 3 avatars. I had Peaches and Som'er Teeth when I ran gremlins, but traded all of them for most of my current collection (minus Lady J and Nicodem boxes). I got two avatars out of the deal, aDreamer and aPandora. I only use 1 of the avatars I own because for the longest time it was the only way for me to reach 35ss with the neverborn I owned (Since I only owned Dreamer and LCB from their individual box not their starter). This is no longer the case, and so I rarely include aPandora any more, but she was a solid staple for about 4 months.

Fenrir, they no longer offer the alt sculpts... I only know this because I like alt McMourning and alt Rasputina far more than their regular sculpts.

 cincydooley wrote:
I actually love the Avatars, but not for game purposes. They're some of the best models in the line, overall.

Sadly, in my meta, not many of the people that play are good painters.....so I've seen a lot of just turrible looking avatars.

Also: -4 Backers, -$214 so far today. I honestly didn't expect that. I'm a bit shocked that the social media encouragement hasn't drumed up ANY additional support.

Shocking, really.

The data for the last 9 days is a bit shocking:




This might be the strangest end to a 'successful' game Kickstarter yet.

Re: Terraclips; I have the Streets, Buildings and Sewers sets and while clipping a bunch of 3x3's together to make up for lacking 6x6's would be less than ideal, it could be done. For a full 3' x 3' board? Yeah, I'd recommend 3 boxes, but you can also get away with skipping the actual bottom board and just building, well, buildings, which is vastly less 6x6 intensive. I heard about the vinyl mats, and remain intrigued. I don't find them terribly problematic to build with, though I find the disassembly process can lead to the occasional broken clip. As a new wargamer who doesn't have any terrain to speak of aside from said clips, however, it was a fairly low cost entry to have some seriously modable boards I can build for when a buddy swings by.

The clips being sold seperately from the terrain is actually a feature, not a bug, imo. Personally I wish they were sold in bulk bins, so I could snag 10 or 20 of the ones I run short of or have broken a couple of, instead of having to get a full box. I'm not there yet, but a couple more snapped clips and I might just tag another round of clips to make sure I don't run out when board building, especially since I'll have to make sure they're movable in the new condo.

 Alfndrate wrote:
And there it is, the Avatars hate I was talking about. I told ya they'd get flak because of their price . I own/ed 3 avatars. I had Peaches and Som'er Teeth when I ran gremlins, but traded all of them for most of my current collection (minus Lady J and Nicodem boxes). I got two avatars out of the deal, aDreamer and aPandora. I only use 1 of the avatars I own because for the longest time it was the only way for me to reach 35ss with the neverborn I owned (Since I only owned Dreamer and LCB from their individual box not their starter). This is no longer the case, and so I rarely include aPandora any more, but she was a solid staple for about 4 months.

Re: Avatars: if that's "hate", man, you must live in one absurdly laid back world. O.o

The avatars vary heavily from faction to faction. Some Neverborn players seem keen on theirs. Some Ressers seem to consider most of theirs amazing. I wouldn't know, I haven't committed the time necessary to figure that all out, and I've yet to play against any. I just know that what Perdita and Hoffman give up in their Avatar form is a tough sell compared to what they lose. That's not "hating", it's an assessment of the stats on the figures against costs, both in game and out. As someone who owns the entire Guild lineup (minus 3 avatars and 2 figures because they are remarkably disappointing), I made the call, and one day I might get around to snagging them, but for now I'd rather have that $100+ in my pocket.

But of course, you are Defending Against The Haters. ;-)

Edit: also, while Snowstorm is a large and impressive figure to be sure, calling it "two models" is disingenuous, as the "second one" is a teeny tiny woman (single piece, if I'm not mistaken) who sits in front of him. I'm pretty sure I've got single parts of other models that are bigger and more detailed than she is.