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 Catyrpelius wrote:
Techincally there is a lower percentage of comments on the Kingdom Death KS coming from the creator, roughly around 3%. Through the Breach comes in around 9%. I get where your going with this though, and I do have an answer for you. Simpley put the creator of this project isn't the one commenting on peoples comments, which makes it different then any of the other kickstarters listed.

I get what your saying though, but great communication is never something I've credited Wyrd with.

Only a few more hours until we get to see just what their going to change.

Oh, it's not so much about the % of the whole that I think is important, it's the level of interaction, the feeling on the part of the backers being connected with the company. It can be an infectious thing: KD doesn't have so many comments because Poots is always commenting, it has so many because people know that he's listening and will comment if he can/needs to. TtB, by contrast, is starved of attention, which fosters a certain attitude in the comments... and even in the official thread on their forums.

It's not so much that the creator needs to be constantly interacting with their backers, but some degree of responsiveness is appreciated, and helps to prime the community. Poots' occasional comments and reactions reap a dividend, in the involvement and emotional investment of the community.

The conduct of Wyrd is such that it seems they are avoiding interacting with their backers. I am somewhat confused by what you mean by "the creator of this project isn't the one commenting on peoples comments"? Do you mean someone from Wyrd other then the official Wyrd Miniatures profile is responding? I wasn't aware this was the case. Or do you mean that they have chosen the route of responding only in the daily briefings?

I remember it being said early on in the project that Jac is pretty much in charge of the daily update and ansering questions in the comments, thats why its only done during the week and only during buisness hours.

Kingdom Death has alot more backers then Through the Breech does, and in support of Through the Breach alot of the comments were directed at Mac and his Breachside Chats. I'm starting to think that the majority of the people backing KD are hoping for another windfall resale product like zombiecide, but that's neither here nor there.

I do agree that the Through the Breach KS isn't generating much in the way of feedback as far as the comments section though, but the comments section of that KS isn't a warm or constructive place most of the time.

However, the lack of info and interaction has been at the heart of some of that negativity.

An oft quoted example are the "multi-post minis", which led to a flurry of speculation with narry a peep from anyone officially through most of it. Weeks (as I recall it) later we got the sprue concept art for both, and were astounded to realize that one sprue could feasibly make up to 3 different figures. That's awesome! So much bickering and negativity would've been avoided if that info had been made available from the start, both in terms of the images present and someone pointing out what they intended to do.

It's not their job to police every last comment on their chat wall for the campaign, but surely someone could've stepped in to correct blind assumptions and misinformation, rather than letting it fester.

Unless they didn't actually know, and the "3 figures sprues" were pulled together in response to that negativity.

Which would indicate that they weren't fully prepared, either to release accurate info on the pending products, or for the overwhelming barrage of information the community would seek out.

I think Mack has snapped... I read the update and went what the gak? Quoted below.

Salutations!

I want Santanas in your hands. The guys here in the office are asking, "Mack, why are you twitching?" They blame the case of energy drinks I down on a daily basis, but I blame my need to get Santanas out there.

So, what can we do? Well, I'm going to start off by thanking our Secret Reward level backers again. They really put a shoulder behind this project and for that, we're going to add a Santana for every Secret Level backer. This is in addition to the one they could earn if we all hit the Santana Claus Stretch Goal.

But that's not all. It's time to achieve Santana Claus, so we're going to play a little game. You'll notice the Ye Old Back-O-Meter One Thousand down below. That tracks our progress towards Santana Claus. I'll post a new one every day. You'll also notice some new ways to move towards 500!

First, there is the current Game Room backers. they got us a chunk of the way there. Every Game Room back counts as a point, just like they do now.

Second, we want you all to appreciate our Secret backers as much as we do, so they count for another two points!

But lastly, we need to push those numbers higher... how can we do that? Well, we just posted a Through the Breach Kickstarter image on Facebook and Twitter. For every 5 Shares on Facebook that it gets, it counts as a point. For every 10 Likes or Retweets that the image gets it counts as a point. That's all it takes! So go sociamalize some media!

I can hear you asking now, "But Mack, you ruggedly handsom devil, the Ye Old Back-O-Meter 1000 goes up to One Thousand, what happens after 500?"

Well, I'll need something to talk a bout in a later update, now won't I? Muwahaha. And we'll have more games to come!

Now I must run off to get ready for our next Breach Side Chat tonight at 6pm! Hope to see you there!

Well, that happened.

I'm at a loss. I am not even sure what that update is intended to accomplish.

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Well, that happened.

I'm at a loss. I am not even sure what that update is intended to accomplish.

Drum up 2 things...

1) Pledges for the 225 and 500 levels

2) Advertising for the Kickstarter as it heads towards it's final push.

Knowing full well that they were not going to reach 500 upper-tier backers, they contrived a silly gimmick to ensure the people expecting a Santana get one before they drop out.

They could have offered something more tangible like an additional male/female character sprue ot the parts of the book they planned and won't include. Instead, Wyrd is rewarding people for sharing the KS on the Twitterbook...

As much as I love Malifaux, what the hell is Wyrd doing here? They really, really don't get it.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Knowing full well that they were not going to reach 500 upper-tier backers, they contrived a silly gimmick to ensure the people expecting a Santana get one before they drop out.

They could have offered something more tangible like an additional male/female character sprue ot the parts of the book they planned and won't include. Instead, Wyrd is rewarding people for sharing the KS on the Twitterbook...

As much as I love Malifaux, what the hell is Wyrd doing here? They really, really don't get it.

This is the first time with this kickstarter that I've actively gone, wtf are they doing? I'm most likely not changing my pledge, but I shared, liked, and retweeted. It took 2 seconds to do all of that. If it gets people their santanas, it's the least I could do.

Umm... yeah.

Wyrd seems astoundingly stubborn in trying to make the $225 level the ideal place, but this does nothing for me, a backer who isn't interested in dropping that sort of cash unless something is truly amazing.

If they really wanted to motivate their base, something that included all of their backers, or at least the $125+ ones, seems obvious, but I don't expect late game social media to monetize very well, either way. I'm kind of curious if they're going to get the 500ish hits they're looking for, would be pretty awkward if they don't. edit, forgot to add-- If they made the $125 level more worthwhile, they'd both be motivating more people involved and be more likely for later game people to jump on or increase their pledges ($125 entry is easier than $225, and $65 increase is easier than $100-165). I still don't get why they think that the $225 level should be the sweet spot. I'm not saying I'm some sort of marketing prophet, but it seems like common sense...

In short, adding to the chorus of "I like Wyrd, but..."

BTW, I started reading the post out loud... it sounds really awkward, in a kind of anguished way.

I actually thought that was a pretty nice post on his part. I genuinely like this guy Mack. Can't say the same for the rest of 'em!

 RiTides wrote:
I actually thought that was a pretty nice post on his part. I genuinely like this guy Mack. Can't say the same for the rest of 'em!

He's a really good dude. Sat down with us at Adepticon and explained a ton of things regarding making Dust Tactics that he didn't need to.

I don't get the update. At all.

 RiTides wrote:
I actually thought that was a pretty nice post on his part. I genuinely like this guy Mack. Can't say the same for the rest of 'em!

I've met most of the Wyrd guys, they're all genuinely nice people, and Mack has been a fething trooper posting this stuff, but I think we finally broke him


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cincydooley wrote:
I don't get the update. At all.

On the surface it's not a hard update to understand, but I'm assuming you're with me on this in that you're not sure why they posted this...

 RiTides wrote:
I actually thought that was a pretty nice post on his part. I genuinely like this guy Mack. Can't say the same for the rest of 'em!

Mack seems like good people,and, outside of some weird stuff in this campaign, the rest of the Wyrd team has seemed genuine, too, but the most recent post just sounds somewhere between confused and forced...

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Well, that happened.

I'm at a loss. I am not even sure what that update is intended to accomplish.

Drum up 2 things...

1) Pledges for the 225 and 500 levels

2) Advertising for the Kickstarter as it heads towards it's final push.

Heh, I was being slightly facile, one can see the hope is to motivate the backers to spread the word, it's all just so... sad.

Yesterday Mack expounds that; "Tomorrow is the big day, everyone is back, and we have a lot to discuss from your comments and suggestions over the last week" and in turn they present... that?

If anything, I'm almost outraged on behalf of Mr. Martin: he's not running the campaign, we know that, so he has to soldier along. To put him out there, to answer the complaints of low value, of poor communication and people not believing the posted book plan, to answer those complaints and no doubt others I'm forgetting, with yet another gimmick designed to maybe salvage what was obviously intended to be an irresistible sweetener... outrageous.

The behavior of the management of this campaign is seriously impacting my impression of Wyrd as a company.

i believe someone said it either in the comments section or even this thread. That wyrd has hit a limit on their customers for the kick starter if they really wanted to get that goal higher they would have "add ons" so that existing backers could add some revenue to the project..

The last day people tend to surge forward hoping to catch a deal but i think on the last day this kick starter will be lucky to reach a surge past 200k.

im wondering for how many people is this the first kick starter project they backed?

As much as I want Santana, I'm not upping my pledge for her. I'll do the Facebook thing so you guys can get yours though.

Of course if someone wants to sell me one of theirs on the cheap....

If the 225 level wasn't such a wasteful POS, I'd gladly do it. I can't justify spending 225 for THAT when for only $75 more another KS gives me two items for free that outstripe the value.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Come to think of it, this update feels more like a "oh god we better make sure those folks at $225 get Santana so they don't drop their pledges" move than a "lets get more backers" move.

 cincydooley wrote:
Come to think of it, this update feels more like a "oh god we better make sure those folks at $225 get Santana so they don't drop their pledges" move than a "lets get more backers" move.

I wish I could claim you're being to cynical but...

Well, skepticism aside, it looks like it's actually working to a degree--first time they've been above $192k in a while.

Yeah, and the strange bit is they haven't gained almost any backers! Must be a lot of jumps up from $60, since the $225 level still only has 359.

 cincydooley wrote:
If the 225 level wasn't such a wasteful POS, I'd gladly do it. I can't justify spending 225 for THAT when for only $75 more another KS gives me two items for free that outstripe the value.

This touches on something that really hit me today, when yet another amazing thing was added to... another campaign. Contrary to certain accusations, my criticism has always been geared towards the hope the campaign would eventually remedy the things I saw wrong with it. That is, eventually the value would be there (as I hoped some time ago). I've been interested off and on with the aesthetic of some of Wyrd's sculpts, especially the new plastic kits, and hoped to eventually be presented with "a deal I can't refuse".

The problem is that things aren't standing still: other campaigns are happening, end of year sales are happening, and while I've been waiting and hoping for a bargain to materialize, the money that might have gone to Wyrd has done gone away...

So what would have been a good deal a month ago isn't enough, not for me.

Honestly, one of the biggest problems with their campaign is that they value their stuff at the same level as some of their most rabid fans: they really seem to think that Santana is worth $100 or so. As a collectable miniature for a huge Wyrd fan, perhaps. But as something to attract new blood? I'd like one, but it's not worth more then $15-25, because to me it's just a cool female miniature, and that's what I'd pay for such a thing. I said that in the comments section on the campaign and was told in slightly broken English I should GTFO.

Right now it seems Wyrd has given up on attracting new blood, they're just trying to extract as much as they can from the backers they already have, cannibalizing existing pledges at lower levels trying to move them to $225 or $500.

As a point of fact, let's note that the previous Wyrd KS, Evil Baby Orphanage, ended with 2,263 backers. Through the Breach currently has 1,252, just over 1,000 fewer. That this campaign hasn't even attracted the people that pledged in that campaign should be a huge warning sign, but it's one that is very unlikely to be seen I fear.

That said, EBO had a vastly lower buy-in, making it much easier for people to throw a little disposable income at. It also didn't happen around the holidays, which may have protected it from other credit card related realities.

Note: I'm just saying, they're not perfectly analogous. Different products, different scope, different communities even (with hefty overlap as there may be).

Personally, I'm glad to see they're doing something. Even if that ~1k they gained really just became an extra 300-400, it covered up that unsightly -700-800'ish that was showing for a while there.

As a fan and a critic of the campaign I have often lamented that going from the middle tier to the top cost $111 for a second set of books, a doll and a deck. Sell the books off for $60 and I'm left with the doll and the deck for $50. Not worth it. Throw in Santana however, and I'm highly intrigued. While I'm not one who values such things at $100-200 as they went for on ebay, I can easily peg her at $50'ish, sell off the deck and consider the doll a freebie I keep around for the hell of it. It's not something that makes me go WOAH THIS IS HAAAAAWT, but at least progress is being made again.

As of the writing of this post, the TtB image has 120 shares and 115 likes, and it's been retweeted 40 times, which works out to another 39-40 "points". Eyeballing the little backer thermometer, it seems we're around the 430'ish mark, meaning that it's quite possible we'll hit the remaining points by tomorrow night.

Is it a bit silly, jumping through these hoops rather than 'admitting they were wrong'? Would it be better to have a "come to jeebus" moment and admit "mea culpa!"? Perhaps. But they haven't, so as someone who does intend to remain a backer, I can only hope this does inspire at least some forward momentum in these last few days. Looks like we're (at the top levels) gettin' Santanas. Yay! Add the hanging tree in and I'll be all the happier.

Dropped my pledge as my friend who I was holding it for isn't able to make up the cash for it. Sad to see it come to this, as I really do love the Malifaux background as well as the miniatures game.

I can understand wanting to get the word passed around for the game, but without a good reason for people to back the project now (considering they won't get Miss T or even the Penny Dreadful), plus funding totals staying low, I don't know how good it will be.

I really did want this to succeed. Just seems like those who are in charge are determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory (or a great kickstarter end total with a fantastic product being produced) because of some self-ascribed idea of their way being the best for the outcome of this. I really can't fathom it to be honest.

 Breotan wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Come to think of it, this update feels more like a "oh god we better make sure those folks at $225 get Santana so they don't drop their pledges" move than a "lets get more backers" move.

I wish I could claim you're being to cynical but...

This is exactly what it seems like. Hard any people signed up for the 225 level when they announced Santana, so they are back peddling so tet won't loss more people.

I have followed about 15 recent Kickstarters in the past year and I believe this is the only one that stopped dead in its tracks less than half way through and actually started to steadily loss backers. You would think that a company that has run 2 successful Kickstarters so far, would have a better understanding of the reality of these things. It really seems like they tried to rewrite a proven method of success and have failed miserably.

It's really a shame, as I love Malifaux and the setting. I am still supporting this thing, but still only at the 60 level. I would up it to 125 if they actually tried. As it is, I am fairly certain I will be staying right where I am.

 Fenriswulf wrote:
(considering they won't get Miss T or even the Penny Dreadful), plus funding totals staying low, I don't know how good it will be.

What happened to the "early backer thank you rewards"? Am I wrong in remembering that these were supposed to be something weekly? I think the second one is still going on, either way...?

Wow. The latest update sounds almost like it was written by Gil from the Simpsons. I'm guessing Mr. Martin wants some coffee, but the coffee's for closers.

I started reading the thread because I was interested in the Malifaux universe and was looking forward to a Dark Heresy-esque smorgasboard of fluff and flavor. I kept reading it for the outrage. And I'll continue reading it for the sweet, sweet schadenfreude.

Holy Jeebus was that update pathetic!

 Buzzsaw wrote:

The behavior of the management of this campaign is seriously impacting my impression of Wyrd as a company.

It has for me. It transformed me from a potential customer who heard a lot of great things about Wyrd into a cackling vulture who loves to see them fail.

That last update, I guess it was too much to hope for something of use to be put up for all of us there?

Actually, what a load of it is.

This is really odd.

It's like they are trying to "re-invent" the 'Kickstarter-logic' all over again, but not use the one Kickstarter provides.

Instead of backers itching to see the prominently displayed total pledged amount inch closer and closer to goal X (and usually squeaking with gleeful joy all over the internet when Stretch Goal X is achieved), they are now supposed to itch seeing Wyrd's own Backer-O-Meter inch closer and closer to a goal X?

Why?

I'm still a bit lost about this chart they've put out?

Is it just "share this to cook the books and get a Santana to people who wanted one as we are under 500 actual pledges" or is it something more than that?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Wow. The latest update sounds almost like it was written by Gil from the Simpsons. I'm guessing Mr. Martin wants some coffee, but the coffee's for closers.

I started reading the thread because I was interested in the Malifaux universe and was looking forward to a Dark Heresy-esque smorgasboard of fluff and flavor. I kept reading it for the outrage. And I'll continue reading it for the sweet, sweet schadenfreude.

Holy Jeebus was that update pathetic!

 Buzzsaw wrote:

The behavior of the management of this campaign is seriously impacting my impression of Wyrd as a company.

It has for me. It transformed me from a potential customer who heard a lot of great things about Wyrd into a cackling vulture who loves to see them fail.

So true, I feel the same. I've heard positive stuff about the game and was at some point in the past choosing between Malifaux and Infinity. Now I know I won't ever touch Malifaux, and some of the banter in this topic is indeed awesomely depressing