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2012/12/10 05:20:37
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarter: Gaming battle boards that fit you and your needs!
I have backed (just checked and holy...) 61 projects on Kickstarter in 2012.
My wife is already dropping some not too subtle hints about my Kickstarter "Addiction" and I'm under the magnifying glass when it comes to any new backing.
That said, I really, really want help this out so I am going to start waging a subtle, surreptitious and subversive information war over the next few weeks until she asks me "Hey, maybe you should back that project". At which point I will say "Oh do you think so? Hmmm, maybe..." and she will say "No really, I think you should". And I will say "Oh well, if you insist".
Also - I have noticed that some people don't seem able to easily equate inches to feet. The standard gaming table is 6' x 4'. That is the same as your 48" x 72" pledge. It's not immediately clear though so I imagine some people won't realise it exists.
Again, I reiterate that even if you don't do up a graphic explaining the various pledge levels, at least move your pledge descriptions above the stretch goals. Now that it is getting so close to the end of the KS, having such optimistic goals so prominently displayed won't help with the psychological component of getting impulse backing.
You've done a great job on the photo's of the product, the constant updates etc are also something a backer looks for. The obvious customer service focus of your company also really shines through and is reflected in the comments section. At this point, there are only one or two things that could be effecting funding. One is out of your control - Kickstarter fatigue. Other projects at the moment are just higher profile. The second though is stream lining the backing process as much as possible to encourage impulse backing.
This can be achieved by showing the value as prominently as possible. What I mean by this is saying things like expected recommended retail pricing. What value do backers get for getting in on the ground floor. You should also focus on a particular pledge level as being the "Best bang for buck". I would aim for the 6' x 4' option. Show that this is the best way to get a full table sized gaming board.
Finally, if you haven't already done so reach out to some of the past successful Kickstarters. It probably won't amount to much, but it may be worth a try. Send Tre a mail, send Mantic, Reaper, Zombie Orpheus (The Gamers) etc a message asking for them to review the product. Perhaps offer to supply them a board or two to test for you.
Anyway, as always best of luck and here's hoping I can put a pledge in. I think I'll just go the safe option of the 6' x 4' cracked earth if I can convince the wife to go that high.
2012/12/10 05:56:55
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarter: Gaming battle boards that fit you and your needs!
Thanks for the reply. I'll be sure to keep my out for when it arrives.
DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++ Get your own Dakka Code!
"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
2012/12/10 11:54:16
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarter: Gaming battle boards that fit you and your needs!
Dear Surloch, thanks for the great feedback and comments. Also thank you for your pledge! We will action a few things as you have suggested.
Your pledge and everyone else's will breath life to this project. We are excited and have confidence as the product it great in quality and detail. So pledge now if you can and join the small army of backers and let's turn our numbers into a vast growing horde.
We need to grow the G&G army of backers. 17 days to go! With your help we can do it!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/10 12:01:11
I just took a look at the KS page and read through the whole thread here.
This is a very interesting project, but there are a few things keeping me from pledging.
Texture aside, what I like about this product is that it is a gaming board that breaks down very compactly. I have a 6x4 gaming board that breaks down into three 2x4 sections, and a skirmish board that folds up into a box for storage. I would love to have a few more gaming table surfaces but storage is an issue. This is exactly the type of product that would work for me.
However, my main concern is how sturdy the board is when the tiles are clipped together. The problem with a 4x4 or 6x4 board is that it is wider than most tables, so there will inevitably be overhang.
I saw that the FAQ on the KS page said that 12" overhang is fine, but my problem with the project is that I have not seen anything to demonstrate what I feel is a really, really important part of the product. None of the videos that I have seen show how it clips together. None show a clipped board being picked up and handled.
For me, that raises a big red flag. It seems to be a very important feature of the product, so why not show it. The videos are flashy without having substance.
As others have said, i don't care much about the texture. I have textured boards, latex mats, felt, etc. I would be interested in a modular tile system that had roads or something, but that isn't what is in this KS project.
It seems to me that this product is really a portable gaming table that is light, durable, affordable, and looks pretty good too. That's great, but I have not seen the product perform, and it seems like GamesNGears is specifically not showing these features of the product.
I'm not saying that this is intentional obfuscation, but it will absolutely keep me from pledging, especially at a time when my wallet is tight anyway.
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
2012/12/10 14:39:34
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarter: Gaming battle boards that fit you and your needs!
weeble1000 wrote: I just took a look at the KS page and read through the whole thread here.
This is a very interesting project, but there are a few things keeping me from pledging.
Texture aside, what I like about this product is that it is a gaming board that breaks down very compactly. I have a 6x4 gaming board that breaks down into three 2x4 sections, and a skirmish board that folds up into a box for storage. I would love to have a few more gaming table surfaces but storage is an issue. This is exactly the type of product that would work for me.
However, my main concern is how sturdy the board is when the tiles are clipped together. The problem with a 4x4 or 6x4 board is that it is wider than most tables, so there will inevitably be overhang.
I saw that the FAQ on the KS page said that 12" overhang is fine, but my problem with the project is that I have not seen anything to demonstrate what I feel is a really, really important part of the product. None of the videos that I have seen show how it clips together. None show a clipped board being picked up and handled.
The G&G army is recruiting and we need you.
For me, that raises a big red flag. It seems to be a very important feature of the product, so why not show it. The videos are flashy without having substance.
As others have said, i don't care much about the texture. I have textured boards, latex mats, felt, etc. I would be interested in a modular tile system that had roads or something, but that isn't what is in this KS project.
It seems to me that this product is really a portable gaming table that is light, durable, affordable, and looks pretty good too. That's great, but I have not seen the product perform, and it seems like GamesNGears is specifically not showing these features of the product.
I'm not saying that this is intentional obfuscation, but it will absolutely keep me from pledging, especially at a time when my wallet is tight anyway.
Good point we will do a video today!! This is a non issue and one we will show on the video. Good points and hopefully it will dispel the above.
Thanks!!
Pledges are slowly rising. Our army of backers are rising to the call. Let's turn our elite number of backers into a fast horde and together smash through the goals. picking up and your pledge will get us there faster.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/10 15:54:27
I also agree that there should be the "sweet spot" pledge level highlighted right at the top of the page. A big ad saying, "GBP 100 gets you 24 clip together modular tiles of one type, enough for a 6x4 board, shipped anywhere in the world!" then the wargamers would see that and immediately go, "that's a deal, I can afford that" without having to search through all the text descriptions etc.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2012/12/10 15:49:54
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarter: Gaming battle boards that fit you and your needs!
Szymon wrote: We (me and my friend) have spread word about this awesome KS on polish WH and WM forums. I hope this helps a little bit and they wont ban us ;-)
@up
I agree, it would be nice to see how these clip are performing.
@GamesNGears
I think you should re-work pledges table a little bit. Sorry but it looks awfull, it's squeezed and illegible.
Thank you Szymon!! Every new recruit is needed . We are working on your suggestions. I hope they don't ban you fro the forums too :p. We are aiming for G&G army of a 1000 backers min. We think we can do it. This community so far has been amazing and we hear you. We may not be big yet or well known as others. But our quality, detail and sturdiness of our gaming board is not only great but we think up there with the best and with the products to come hopefully to one everyone goes to for their battle boards.
Our battle ground now is getting pledges. So Thank you Szymon for your help In this front. Let's get our army growing. . We are working on the great points above.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
judgedoug wrote: I also agree that there should be the "sweet spot" pledge level highlighted right at the top of the page. A big ad saying, "GBP 100 gets you 24 clip together modular tiles of one type, enough for a 6x4 board, shipped anywhere in the world!" then the wargamers would see that and immediately go, "that's a deal, I can afford that" without having to search through all the text descriptions etc.
We will add that. We must admit we are not the best sales people. We are though excellent in manufacturing and making high quality durable goods. I guess this is the place to thank all those who have helped us before and during the Kickstarter. This is a truly organic experience with the community.
Should be added soon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/10 15:53:05
Whislt I wholeheartedly agree with Judgedoug. I actually really do like the honesty of these guys, kind of a breath of fresh air in our hobby. But I do think you need to do that some people need to be sold to. Spreading th message here too! Awesome Kickstarter and I want allot of the stretch goals.
So count me in the G&G Army! :p
2012/12/10 16:13:23
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarter: Gaming battle boards that fit you and your needs!
darkeldarcrone wrote: Whislt I wholeheartedly agree with Judgedoug. I actually really do like the honesty of these guys, kind of a breath of fresh air in our hobby. But I do think you need to do that some people need to be sold to. Spreading th message here too! Awesome Kickstarter and I want allot of the stretch goals.
So count me in the G&G Army! :p
Thanks Darkeldsrcrone.
Our background is in manufacturing and design. But the community has been awesome so far and we are adding the great points made. Honored to have you and all in the G&G army.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/10 16:15:04
darkeldarcrone wrote: Whislt I wholeheartedly agree with Judgedoug. I actually really do like the honesty of these guys, kind of a breath of fresh air in our hobby. But I do think you need to do that some people need to be sold to. Spreading th message here too! Awesome Kickstarter and I want allot of the stretch goals.
So count me in the G&G Army! :p
It is hard to judge honesty when a key feature of a product is talked about but never shown. I think people get sold to quite a bit, and most of the KS seems to be selling to me. It's mostly pretty picture after pretty picture flying around with a bunch of shiny colorful stuff to make me excited. That's the problem that I have with it. If the table does not clip together well, why buy it? If it doesn't clip together well, it isn't a board so much as a textured surface and there are better ones on the market.
A lot of people build their own game boards because you can't easily find a 6x4'+ table. If you build a 6x4 table, where do you put the thing? Once you design one that comes apart, construction starts becoming complicated fast. To avoid the hassle, I would absolutely buy a table that could split apart into 1x1 tiles, assuming that it was reasonably rigid.
Otherwise, the product has value as a modular surface, but you don't really get that value in the KS. I understand the reasons behind that choice, but am I supposed to invest in a product that I don't really want to fund a company so that I can get a product that I do want later? I'd jump all over a nice set of modular tiles that clip together in various ways to make a system of urban roads, sidewalks, etc. That would be great, but you don't get that in the KS. You get a great quality gaming board that breaks down into 1x1 tiles for storage and has some nifty tray attachments. Like I said, that's fantastic as long as it holds together.
If it wasn't a KS campaign, I could do a lot to asses the value of the product before I committed to buying it, and I could return it if I was unsatisfied. With KS, I've got to trust. Trust the product to be good, trust the company to deliver. There are no guarantees. GnG has said it is steadfast and rigid, but they have also tended to use the same exact phrasing over and over again, like I am being sold to. This does not inspire trust.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/10 16:52:15
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
2012/12/10 16:59:12
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarter: Gaming battle boards that fit you and your needs!
We will get a video done today as you have suggested. This is a non issue to be honest but one that we are happy to demonstrate. To be honest it is not something that crossed our minds since they are good as we have stated on our stress test.
Video to come soon =D. Should dispel this and hopefully attain your pledge too! But they are strong and steadfast as we have said many times.
Thank you for your comments and we hope by showing this video we will attain your and many more recruits in pledges. Sorry for not doing this sooner. But no request of a video has been made till now. We are very happy to comply.
Cheers!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Video is looking cool!! Should be up in a couple of hours!!
Hey guys thanks we are seeing allot of Dakka Dakka members join in the fray to our call to arms. Thank you seriously for the backing so far on 40%!! now. Your continued rally to our Kickstarter project is amazing. Without you this would not be possible
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2012/12/10 18:31:47
hey GamesNGears, Will you be able to Hybrid the cobblestone board and the Sci-Fi scape board together? I want to do board based on a 40k old world with a concealed tech priest base. Allot of themes coming up in my head for some games with my mates.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/10 19:02:42
2012/12/10 19:31:08
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarter: Gaming battle boards that fit you and your needs!
Yes you can and there will be hybrids for that as already planned, awesome idea by the way. This is exactly the type of stuff we want gamers to do. To be able to have thematic battle & play smoothly and uninterrupted at the same time. We hope to hear more stories and ideas like this. =)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stress test demo of 12" outside of the table surface and same results with bigger widths as they all have the same number of clips attached to them.
Update: Here is the video as promised!! help us share this with everyone. Also we are amassing our G&G backer army. So after you have watched this video and you like our Gaming Boards even more please pledge now and lets beef up our backers in numbers. We are very proud of our high end & durable design.
Thank you
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/11 07:11:03
Also please note it is very rare in our experiences that players pack out the two extreme corners of the gaming board with their armies/games/battles as their armies/ board-games/battles take place in the middle part of the gaming boards. However we wanted to show an extreme circumstance to show the great integrity of our gaming boards.
Cheers!!
Here is the video again just in case you missed the one above! =P
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/11 07:56:38
@Bacms; Agree, the edge is just on the table... but I would never put something out more than that if it wasn't a solid piece...
In for a 6x4 now, looking forward to it.
The problem with that is that I use my dinning table which is only about 24inches so it need to overhang on both sides
Hmm, could still work, but I wouldn't have over a foot of overhang.
That being said, you could potentially put something down on the edges... but 2 feet of overhang... that's a lot for something in sections. You might need a single piece for that which is essentially another table.
2012/12/11 12:14:16
Subject: Re:Games & Gears Kickstarter: Gaming battle boards that fit you and your needs!
Bacms wrote: On the video the joint is still sitting on the table does the table has the same properties when it is hanging out of the table?
Actually the joint is a few mm outside the table as said in the video. So yes as long as it is approx 12 inches. For a 24inch table were both sides are short stress test is passed. However we would always recommend to Use A bigger surface if you can. Like any board on the surface like that you will have to be delicate. If you play with plastic figs it's fine and metal as well we did an extreme video demo. But in your particular case I would glue some parts of the gaming boards together. I would also suggest to play on the long side of the table. That way only your left and right side is hanging out. As opposed to your whole deployment zone.
Our optimum recommendation (gamers preference) is 6" inch short on both sides, which is what all gaming boards are comfortable in.
@Bacms; Agree, the edge is just on the table... but I would never put something out more than that if it wasn't a solid piece...
In for a 6x4 now, looking forward to it.
Thank you Makaleth!! Your pledge like everyone else's is essential. Welcome to the G&G army of backers. We hope to turn it into a giant horde kitting you out with allot more stuff.
@Bacms; Agree, the edge is just on the table... but I would never put something out more than that if it wasn't a solid piece...
In for a 6x4 now, looking forward to it.
The problem with that is that I use my dinning table which is only about 24inches so it need to overhang on both sides
Hmm, could still work, but I wouldn't have over a foot of overhang.
That being said, you could potentially put something down on the edges... but 2 feet of overhang... that's a lot for something in sections. You might need a single piece for that which is essentially another table.
I agree with Malaketh, as an ardent And picky gamer which is what I am :p, I would adhere to my recommendations above. Good news is. As we know players like to lean on the boards and place more pressure :p. We are working on developing small stands where you can adjust the height to insure your Games & Gears Gaming Boards have an entire surface. Initially we had this in mind for tournaments, but everyone can have it if they want. But this will be available in June 2013 and if this Kickstarter is hopefully successful.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That said as in the video, our build and design is to insure you have a great gaming experience. Time to rally more to our call to arms!!
thank you
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2012/12/11 12:39:52
Is it possible to clip a tray between two sections of the board, as in, one clip attached to one section and the other attached to the adjacent section?
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
2012/12/11 14:08:04
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarter: Gaming battle boards that fit you and your needs!
weeble1000 wrote: Is it possible to clip a tray between two sections of the board, as in, one clip attached to one section and the other attached to the adjacent section?
Dear Weeble,
You can do that, although one G&G clip would not fit straight through the slot they were intended for. If your Games & Gears tray is hanging out of the surface this will not be an issue and you can clip the gaming trays to where you want. We designed the G&G trays to pack out your gaming table neatly, for your cards, or gaming tokens and dice, for war-games, board games, card games and RPG.
However if you are intending to have a surface underneath as well for the trays, we would recommened you clip each tray to each section as in the video as there might be a small albeit unnoticeable bump if you do it they way you have suggested, if there is a solid surface for the Games & Gears trays to lay on. If there is no surface underneath for the trays you are at liberty to clip it where you want on the sides.
Hope the above helps! Thanks.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2012/12/11 14:15:25
That overhand video is impressive. Obviously it's not something you'd want to to constantly... It can obviously hold a pile of miniatures, but think about if you forgot for a second and put your elbow down and all your body weight!
Bacms, perhaps getting a large sheet of cardboard to overhang your dining room table, puttin the Games N Gears boards on top of, would provide enough extra strength and stability for a 12" overhand on each side - while also protecting your dining room table from scratches and dents.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2012/12/11 14:26:25
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarter: Gaming battle boards that fit you and your needs!
Absolutely Judgedoug great comments and great suggestion this is something I would do. If I were to play on my dining room table.
It is also important to note that we went to a bit of an extreme in the video. It is very unlikely in your games according to our experience in playing many war-games that you will actually have that many models on the extreme corners. Usually players deploy 12", 10, 8, 6 inches in roughly and the games usually end up in somewhere in the Middle of the board.
However we know that your models come first as do ours since we love the hobby of miniature wargaming. So best to insure you have taken all the steps as mentioned above.
Thanks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I should add, you will all receive a guide with your Games & Gears gaming boards. With recommendations, FAQ and do's and don'ts. From our gaming experience with the boards. Allot which has been explained here.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/11 14:33:27
2000pts in 
with 
allies 1850pts finished
thank you