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 Bulkoth wrote:
That is a little odd but what incentive do people have to buy the game if they can grab the rules online and play with their own minis without buying in. I mean with 11+ months until release of the game another company could easily rush developement on a knockoff and beat him to market.

In bullet point form:
• they believe the author(s)/etc. deserve support (in fact, many models work around this model, for instance, many webcomics, Infinity (skirmish), and Dominion (cards))

• they enjoy the aesthetics (for instance, the Malifaux rules are available for free in a truncated form missing the art)

• they enjoy background (typically stripped from rules only versions)

• the bought form is more convenient (esp. in card and counter-heavy games)

• they like the models (aesthetic and/or execution)-- Malifaux has actually released an official and free Vassal module for their game, so they seem pretty confident about it

• if all they wanted were the game mechanics, there are a ton of video/computer games that probably do something relatively similar to this, but much more flexibly and efficiently (this was what initially made me hesitate to back, before I was sold on the minis)

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 Bulkoth wrote:
I agree that not all the minis were spot on my style. I love some of them like Dragon King, King's Hand, etc, I nearly didn't buy Gorm because I really am not a fan but I'm primarily a gamer even tho I enoy painting etc so I'm banking on the gameplay being solid but like it's been stated BGG is trying to discuss a small amount of info to extrapolate balance, it just can't work.

BGG raised alot of good concerns over gameplay though, enough for me to rethink my pledge.

What got me was him repeatedly talking about protecting IP... You can't trademark/copyright/anything game mechanics, so why not share the rules.

I think it odd that you and I had the exact opposite reaction to the BBG forums on this game. I read all of the info in these two links and it sold me on both the gameplay and and how expandable the game is meant to be. I love the liquid/organic aspect to the battles and story. Strange, just strange.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/905034/kingdom-death-rules-compilation

http://www.scribd.com/doc/118387274/Kingdom-Death-Monster-Notes

 Bulkoth wrote:
That is a little odd but what incentive do people have to buy the game if they can grab the rules online and play with their own minis without buying in. I mean with 11+ months until release of the game another company could easily rush developement on a knockoff and beat him to market.

On the other hand, Mantic's Dreadball did release the rules early, and it hasn't caused any lack of interest as far as I can tell. Possibly the opposite.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Bulkoth wrote:
That is a little odd but what incentive do people have to buy the game if they can grab the rules online and play with their own minis without buying in. I mean with 11+ months until release of the game another company could easily rush developement on a knockoff and beat him to market.

On the other hand, Mantic's Dreadball did release the rules early, and it hasn't caused any lack of interest as far as I can tell. Possibly the opposite.

For curiosity's sake, what was the turn around time between when Mantic released their rules early, and when backers got their games? Alternatively, when was dreadball released in comparison to when the rules were released early. I don't doubt that Mantic has been drumming up interest that way, On the Lamb is going the same with Endless, to the point that by the time the rewards have been sent out, backers will have a complete pdf ruleset (of course this was part of the reward levels). But I think the important thing to note about KD:M is that this is almost a year away... someone could easily "scoop" Poots on a similar ruleset and release something earlier.

 Alfndrate wrote:

For curiosity's sake, what was the turn around time between when Mantic released their rules early, and when backers got their games? Alternatively, when was dreadball released in comparison to when the rules were released early. I don't doubt that Mantic has been drumming up interest that way, On the Lamb is going the same with Endless, to the point that by the time the rewards have been sent out, backers will have a complete pdf ruleset (of course this was part of the reward levels). But I think the important thing to note about KD:M is that this is almost a year away... someone could easily "scoop" Poots on a similar ruleset and release something earlier.

Dreadball's rules were out during the Kickstarter, and the games shipped about 2 months later.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

For curiosity's sake, what was the turn around time between when Mantic released their rules early, and when backers got their games? Alternatively, when was dreadball released in comparison to when the rules were released early. I don't doubt that Mantic has been drumming up interest that way, On the Lamb is going the same with Endless, to the point that by the time the rewards have been sent out, backers will have a complete pdf ruleset (of course this was part of the reward levels). But I think the important thing to note about KD:M is that this is almost a year away... someone could easily "scoop" Poots on a similar ruleset and release something earlier.

Dreadball's rules were out during the Kickstarter, and the games shipped about 2 months later.

Okay, didn't think it was that long of a time period. far less time for someone to "copy" the rules and release it as their own thing with tweaks of course. I don't see this happening to Adam, but a year is a long time.

I'd put the chances of someone designing up a co-op RPG-lite game AND producing miniatures on par with what KD has (and presumably will) produce at... as close to zero with out actually being zero.

Because, I suppose, you never know!

 Alpharius wrote:
I'd put the chances of someone designing up a co-op RPG-lite game AND producing miniatures on par with what KD has (and presumably will) produce at... as close to zero with out actually being zero.

Because, I suppose, you never know!

The posts over on bgg highlight that the quality of the miniatures is less of a concern for some, im suprised at how many people appeared to be turned off by the fact you have to build them yourself.

 spears wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I'd put the chances of someone designing up a co-op RPG-lite game AND producing miniatures on par with what KD has (and presumably will) produce at... as close to zero with out actually being zero.

Because, I suppose, you never know!

The posts over on bgg highlight that the quality of the miniatures is less of a concern for some, im suprised at how many people appeared to be turned off by the fact you have to build them yourself.

Like I said, troll the forums for Battles of Westeros and you'll see the same complaining about putting a mini on a base.

I am ok with the game not being done since it's a complete package and he started out going "i need 11 months to get this out the door" the goal of a KS tends to be to fund the making of something, I'm less a fan of it being used entirely as a preorder platform.

discovered this game 2 days ago, looked at all the art i could, read all the text i could, watched the gameplay videos 12 times over, even planned out in which order i plan to buy the expansions me and my gaming group are excited for this one!

What did you pledge at?

Just last weekend I spent all my mini budget at GW biggest mistake of my life

My only concern for the game play is how scalable it is for different numbers of players. He said it would be 1-4 players, I just hope that it is not too steep of a challenge with less players.
I still pledged for 365, got most of the expansions and two of the messengers, so I'm in this one, just hoping that me and my girlfriend can play this one alone if we need to =)

 Sirius42 wrote:
So I've emailed Adam, guess we shall see.

Yea I'd love to get in on this, I just wasn't able to during the KS (backed another instead with most of my $). That and to be honest, the stretch goals never got updated often on the front page, so it was like 5 hours left before I actually clicked on the Updates section and saw all the other stuff. I may have been swayed if I had a bit more time to figure it out. I guess it's my fault.

Oh well, the vast majority of it will be in stores at some point so I'm not too worried.

Actually the game is 1-6 players, and I think at 1 and 2 players you'd control more than one survivor each.

 Bulkoth wrote:
Actually the game is 1-6 players, and I think at 1 and 2 players you'd control more than one survivor each.

That's what I'm planning.

Part of my trepidation was curbed by the ability to play solo. Ideally, I'd be playing with at least one other person but that won't always be feasible so I'll probably end up playing by myself some nights.

If you missed something or did not add up your totals right there is good news. This has been posted by Adam.

"I am figuring out an ideal way for people whom made mistakes and other special circumstances to fix their pledge total. I will not be taking on any new "late to the party go-ers". Im sorry, gotta take care of everyone that was here first. So to anyone that asks, or ended up with xyz problem, it will be addressed when the time is right. Just relax for now, hehe."


He also mentioned that he may have upwards of 400k of the money going directly to shipping.... If this is true ouch!

Did Adam ever mention when he expected to have the pledge surveys sent out?

ok, the messages from Adam on Kickstarter are as follows.

Link: http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/poots/comments

Just a quick update : 1 - I should have access to the money in about 3 weeks. Right now its im magical amazon / kickstarter land. 2 - I'll be mostly off this week, resting up. ( i got sick on the final day! ;_; ) 3 - As progress is made I'll be keeping everyone updated. First thing on my list is some nice shots of the dung beetle knight that's sitting unassembled on my desk! 4 - i <3 you all!

Jan. 10, 2013 on Kingdom Death : Monster.

@Kineticmedic , i have no idea what your talking about. Official Forums - not yet, anna might be joining the project full time now that it can afford her. she is a badass backend developer so we might maybe do something custom to KDM, but i need time to think about it. Shipping - this is easily 400k in shipping fees. how much does that suck eh? sick - yeah i was pushing myself pretty hard, thankfully i avoided getting really sick so far, sheer will / luck i think!

Jan. 10, 2013 on Kingdom Death : Monster.

I am figuring out an ideal way for people whom made mistakes and other special circumstances to fix their pledge total. I will not be taking on any new "late to the party go-ers". Im sorry, gotta take care of everyone that was here first. So to anyone that asks, or ended up with xyz problem, it will be addressed when the time is right. Just relax for now, hehe.

Jan. 10, 2013 on Kingdom Death : Monster.

@Ryan Thompson, dunno yet. i wont have a firm date / availability of anything kickstarted until were pretty close to backer fulfillment. i most likley wont be posting details until after that is over. i honestly see no benefit in rushing this to the market place, we kickstarted this together and thus we will be the first to receive it. i don't want to dilute the backer experience or add the complications that establishing distro / retail arrangements during these final creation and production phases. essentially : backers come first. the rest of the world sits on the side for now.

Jan. 10, 2013 on Kingdom Death : Monster.

Lets hope he does find a solution, I've re-checked my pledge and have'nt even got minis it turns out I've only paid for international shipping, which aside from making me feel like a pillock is also a giant waste of money, so I hope Adam comes through, im sure he will.

]

 Catyrpelius wrote:

What got me was him repeatedly talking about protecting IP... You can't trademark/copyright/anything game mechanics, so why not share the rules.

You certainly can Patent game mechanics (or attempt to.) At least you can in the U.S. Game mechanics are Intellectual Property in the same way characters, lyrics, or Coke's secret formula are.

Famously, Magic: the Gathering patented several game mechanics, including "tapping" cards. This patent forced games like Legend of the Five Rings to call card toggling "bowing" the card. There was a rumor at the time that even this required a licensing fee from Wizards of the Coast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_%28gaming%29
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=5662332

So, that averages out at $74 in shipping per backer. Presumably that includes materials etc. as well. That's probably....pretty accurate actually, ouch.

I snuck back in on the last day with a sad little pledge to get the exclusive survivors and a few of the semi-exclusives. Which actually makes this the worst mini/$ KS I've backed so far.

Looking forward to seeing where Adam takes this whole thing.

Yes it's easy to forget about the packing materials,

as if you're clever you can always scrounge up enough cardboard/bubble wrap/packing peanuts to wrap anything you want to post

but scrounging up enough stuff for 5000+ packages, nope that's not going to work

(Hope Adam can arrange a bulk discount!)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Yes it's easy to forget about the packing materials,

as if you're clever you can always scrounge up enough cardboard/bubble wrap/packing peanuts to wrap anything you want to post

but scrounging up enough stuff for 5000+ packages, nope that's not going to work

(Hope Adam can arrange a bulk discount!)

Well, USPS flat rates (which probably make the most sense, esp. given slightly varying weights on thousands of packages) have free packaging (rather, it's included in the cost of shipping)

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Yes it's easy to forget about the packing materials,

as if you're clever you can always scrounge up enough cardboard/bubble wrap/packing peanuts to wrap anything you want to post

but scrounging up enough stuff for 5000+ packages, nope that's not going to work

(Hope Adam can arrange a bulk discount!)

Well, USPS flat rates (which probably make the most sense, esp. given slightly varying weights on thousands of packages) have free packaging (rather, it's included in the cost of shipping)

Its doubtful that even the Large USPS flat rate is going to be able to hold most of the pledges, as something like SDE/Dreadball would not fit into one of those boxes.

Oh, hadn't thought of how large those boxes could be. Good point.

And to think, $45 in shipping is in no way going to cover all the stuff (ALL THE EVERYTHING!) we ordered..

And another Kickstarter takes a club to the head with shipping. Had heard a few months ago Reaper was hoping they would break even with their KS due to shipping.

You would think Poots would be ready for this. Especially since he is working with CMoN.

I think he was ready for it. He seems to have been talking in pretty realistic terms about his expenses etc. from the beginning. Even his delivery date suggests a certain amount of caution.