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I don't think it's a surprise to him,

he was just pointing out quite how scarily fast the KS money will vanish when he gets it

Throughout the KS Adam has seemed to have a very good hold on funds. He certainly isn't expecting to get rich from this, in fact I think I remember an early post (maybe the KS page?) saying he hoped to be able to pay himself basic wage! Either way with so many backers and so many products to produce I can't imagine the net profit will be more than a few percent.

I would be interested in seeing a total breakdown from a miniatures kickstarter though, just to see how much we (backers) underestimate costs.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I don't think it's a surprise to him,

he was just pointing out quite how scarily fast the KS money will vanish when he gets it

That is good, and you are right, it shows how fast money gets eaten up with things people don't consider. But that won't stop people from complaining about how the KS is being run a few months ago and how come that can't do X, Y, and Z since they got all that money.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I don't think it's a surprise to him,

he was just pointing out quite how scarily fast the KS money will vanish when he gets it

I can easily testify to how quickly the funds get used up.

Continued sales of Brushfire will be covering the shipping for Endless.

 redstripe wrote:

 Catyrpelius wrote:

What got me was him repeatedly talking about protecting IP... You can't trademark/copyright/anything game mechanics, so why not share the rules.

You certainly can Patent game mechanics (or attempt to.) At least you can in the U.S. Game mechanics are Intellectual Property in the same way characters, lyrics, or Coke's secret formula are.

Famously, Magic: the Gathering patented several game mechanics, including "tapping" cards. This patent forced games like Legend of the Five Rings to call card toggling "bowing" the card. There was a rumor at the time that even this required a licensing fee from Wizards of the Coast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_%28gaming%29
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=5662332

I dont want him to share the rules, if it was just a board game or a card game i'd like a look, but this boardgame/rpg hybrid i only want to see it in its final packaging so as not to spoil the fun early using fake models and fake cards ect ect

 Alpharius wrote:
I'd put the chances of someone designing up a co-op RPG-lite game AND producing miniatures on par with what KD has (and presumably will) produce at... as close to zero with out actually being zero.

Because, I suppose, you never know!

Is co-opting board games by a few months really a "thing"?

Is scooping the rules alone even a thing?

I wonder why know one has published "Buy property and scream at each other", "roll dice for your asterisk armies" or "Put 4 tokens in a row" and made millions hundreds. I can't imagine "Miskatonic Terror" or "Going down (into the dungeon)" selling well without the accompanying artwork or models.

I would suspect that Part of that crazy shipping bill is also shipping the products from the factory to the assembly facility and then on to the USA and elsewhere.

It won't cost that much to Ship. But if he's counting materials, or paying someone to pack the boxes, of course it can add up. Good thing he raised 2 million, eh

If he can keep the form factor down so it fits into the standard USPS Priority Mail flat rate box, he can save quite a bit on packaging & shipping.

I had to do it... except I dont want you to shut up... Make More Videos and Take My Money!

Nicely done. It seems to sum up the KDM KS fairly well.

Although it could use more tentacle wang.

I know Adam Poots isn't getting rich from this.... the average Joe has no idea about all the hidden cost .... like how much those pin-ups from Lokmanlam cost, even fonts cost... if the 3D Artist used certain programs You need to pay a licensing fee (usually once) , I mean all this stuff adds up...

Its funny how people are.... Mr. Poots is giving the fans /backers one helleva awesome deal. Tons of minis....

I think people expect too much. The saving grace for Mr.Poots is now he has a little breathing room and a nice starting lineup for a very expandable system. Any one thinking he's walking away a millionaire is an idiot. He'll be able to get his company up n running to a higher degree and support himself while he does it. But this thing didn't make him rich... I love how some folks think everything is free... or the have some twisted idea of how things work in the real world.

 5deadly wrote:
I know Adam Poots isn't getting rich from this.... the average Joe has no idea about all the hidden cost .... like how much those pin-ups from Lokmanlam cost, even fonts cost... if the 3D Artist used certain programs You need to pay a licensing fee (usually once) , I mean all this stuff adds up...

Its funny how people are.... Mr. Poots is giving the fans /backers one helleva awesome deal. Tons of minis....

I think people expect too much. The saving grace for Mr.Poots is now he has a little breathing room and a nice starting lineup for a very expandable system. Any one thinking he's walking away a millionaire is an idiot. He'll be able to get his company up n running to a higher degree and support himself while he does it. But this thing didn't make him rich... I love how some folks think everything is free... or the have some twisted idea of how things work in the real world.

Yes, people hear something costs X amount to make in materials and want it sold at that price, nevermind design, warehousing, accounting, shipping, etc that makes it cost much more.

Adam will likely be a millionaire at some point though. If he can sell 4000 copies of a game (conservative estimate) sight unseen, imagine what he'll be able to move once the product is on the shelves...

 Breotan wrote:
If he can keep the form factor down so it fits into the standard USPS Priority Mail flat rate box, he can save quite a bit on packaging & shipping.

There is just NO way that is gonna happen between the extra freebies he tossed in, all the plastic etc in the base box, and the fact that the average pledge being over $300 means that the average pledger spent over $150 on extras, these boxes are going to be all over the map size wise.

Adam said during the KS that he HOPES when it's all said and done he can pay himself minimum wage for the >3 years he will have worked on KS by the time it ships. at 7.25 in NY that is not a large amount of profit, but I agree with Krinsath in as much as Adam might have problems keeping this game in stock after it's out in the market.

Agreed with Bulkoth. I just can't see any possible way this thing is fitting in the largest of the Priority Mail Flate rates. The largest flat rate box is 12" x 12" x 5 1/2" on the inside. For comparison purposes, the box for Super Dungeon Explore is 13 x 4 x 13 inches and the box for Zombiecide is 12.2 x 12.2 x 4.2 inches. Simply put, I just dont think its happening.

Reaper pricing from their KS and China price used by CMON has made the miniature section from KS goes by the inception of being more funds = should give freebies.

It's a terrible norm people if backers expect those to be happen. Adam doesn't have diversification of miniature business like how Reaper and CMON does, so he should be charging a higher price to compensate with the factor of risk involved with his business.

Though even I have a greedy side to expect more free stuff, I would rather pay a bit of premium if it's going to extend the survivability of top quality producing miniatures like KD. Remember how hobbyist cried when Rackham died? It will be a sad thing, at least I know I would.

The problem for dealing this would be transparency on the allocation of funds being used. This would give an insight to backers things are not as beautiful as they thought.

Adam mentioned that he would share the total shipping fee and how much he ate the prices for backers. If he could do that, it would be a changing start in miniature section of KS

With some 5000 (give or take) box games + extras to ship, I think he's got options in terms of working with UPS or USPS or etc. in order to negotiate a reduced shipping rate in return for giving them that much volume.

I'm not sure USPS would consider if it's only a one time deal, usually business do a long term contract for such incentives. Who knows, but I hope he could get it.

Another possibilities that CMON being kind enough to offer a helping hand on that. It's would be a great PR for them to help an indie company.

According to USPS' website you start to qualify for Business mail/Bulk mail at 200 First classpackages or 500 Standard packages.

Either way I would bet if he took a quote from USPS and one from UPS to each other they'd try to make a better deal for him.

He has talked about using CMON for fulfillment but isn't far enough in the process to make any of that solid.

I mean, I'd personally be fine if Adam simply partnered with CMON to do the shipping, fulfillment, and even utilize the CKPM. Their CKPM is fantastic, works well, and is easy to navigate.

I know there are others that are less excited about that prospect, but I'm all about it.

Luckily for us cincy Adam doesnt seem to care what others think and is running his business how he feels best. As can be seen in alot of the minis, even the non pinup ones have some stuff that others are less than excited about.

 Bulkoth wrote:
Luckily for us cincy Adam doesnt seem to care what others think and is running his business how he feels best. As can be seen in alot of the minis, even the non pinup ones have some stuff that others are less than excited about.

Right on. I think logisically working with CMON just "makes sense." Utilize their infrastructure and their shipping discounts, etc. I have confidence this will be handled with the utmost professionalism, so I'm not really concerned.

On the box: I'm guessing it'll be pretty similar in size to the new FFG boxes, around 13 x 13 x 6. Pretty standard board game size.

If someone ordered all of the game expansions, I don't know if they'd all fit in that box with the 'original game' + various pinups and what-nots!

Partnering up with CMON for order fulfillment is sounding a bit better all the time...

 Alpharius wrote:
If someone ordered all of the game expansions, I don't know if they'd all fit in that box with the 'original game' + various pinups and what-nots!

Partnering up with CMON for order fulfillment is sounding a bit better all the time...

No kidding. I imagine everyone that is all in for every expansion (this is not me) is going to be looking at a 15-20lb box that takes up some serious real estate.

I wonder when BF is gonna get in the mix because I doubt all those assembled minis are going back in that box.

I got all the expansions + some extras and I look forward to receiving a box of mammoth proportions. I will approve.

I did the same Lt Coldfire, adding Slenderman and that Tree on the last day made me cut alot of the options I was planning tho.

I'm missing out on a few expansions, and I'd love to have gotten the tree, but it just wasn't in the budget right now. Still, I'll likely put more money down after the fact when it's released.

To sidetrack the current conversation and since my search skills are naff, do we know when we'll get the survey for our options? Will that be closer to full release?

My guess is the Survey will come out pretty soon after Adam gets the money and our email addresses etc

Since his production runs are going to be pretty much stuffed it'll be important for him to know how much of each thing to have cast or printed so stuff can be scheduled efficiently

since it takes about 3 weeks now for Amazon/KS to do their bit i'd anticipate the survey 3-4 weeks after the KS ended,

and (again a guess) Adam will probably want it in reletively fast so 2-4 weeks to complete it?

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
My guess is the Survey will come out pretty soon after Adam gets the money and our email addresses etc

Since his production runs are going to be pretty much stuffed it'll be important for him to know how much of each thing to have cast or printed so stuff can be scheduled efficiently

since it takes about 3 weeks now for Amazon/KS to do their bit i'd anticipate the survey 3-4 weeks after the KS ended,

and (again a guess) Adam will probably want it in reletively fast so 2-4 weeks to complete it?

He also might be waiting to get an official "what there is" picture together as last I looked there was only a fan one.