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Isn't metastable metallic hydrogen theoretically a high-powered explosive? That could be a possible candidate if you are really desperate to explain 'depleted deuterium'.
Although I think it's probably wisest to write all Imperial techobabble off as Adeptus Mechanicus misdirection...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/05 19:00:23
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Maybe GW decided to make something up and they happened to make up something that already exists. Or they went through a list of radioactive elements and picked one that sounded cool, not doing any further reaserch to find that they picked one of the lightest elements there is.
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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
"This material, at a density of 140 kg/cm3, would be a million times more dense than regular deuterium, denser than at the core of the Sun. This ultradense form of deuterium may facilitate achieving laser-induced fusion.[27] Only minute amounts of ultradense deuterium have been produced thus far."
Bolts are specifically noted to have solid, superdense cores, made of deuterium, new (relatively speaking) player!
Meh. The insane haxness of bolter fire would finally be explained. You can't fit much deuterium into a .75 calibre shell, but even a little would help penetration considerably.
Perfect Organism wrote:Isn't metastable metallic hydrogen theoretically a high-powered explosive? That could be a possible candidate if you are really desperate to explain 'depleted deuterium'.
Although I think it's probably wisest to write all Imperial techobabble off as Adeptus Mechanicus misdirection...
I'm not desperate to explain it, it's just interesting. As is metallic hydrogen, although I don't know how explosive it is.
Indeed. But interesting to think about.
Grey Templar wrote:Maybe GW decided to make something up and they happened to make up something that already exists. Or they went through a list of radioactive elements and picked one that sounded cool, not doing any further reaserch to find that they picked one of the lightest elements there is.
Very likely.
ScreamPaste wrote:To add to the deuterium discussion, if the core of a bolt shell is indeed said to be solid, I think I know what it is:
"This material, at a density of 140 kg/cm3, would be a million times more dense than regular deuterium, denser than at the core of the Sun. This ultradense form of deuterium may facilitate achieving laser-induced fusion.[27] Only minute amounts of ultradense deuterium have been produced thus far."
I've heard about that laser fusion experiment, they're trying to make it an efficient power source. Using a ridiculous number of room-sized lasers focussed on a tiny pellet of deuterium and the theory is that it crushes the deuterium enough to make it undergo fusion. Although they haven't managed to make it continuous or efficient yet.
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Dr H wrote:Ahh, but if you wanted to increase the weight of the round using deuterium is pointless as it's a gas, twice the weight of hydrogen but not the heaviest of elements.
That's what I meant with the screw-up. The "depleted" prefix leads me to believe they were looking for something like "depleted uranium", which is used in modern ammunition. Since they are game designers rather than scientists, and likely did not think that we would have countless heated debates about such minor details on the internets, they went with another element without checking if it makes any sense.
I mean ... why would you deplete deuterium? Even if you wanted to make a mini-nuke, you'd use enriched deuterium (aka heavy water), not the opposite.
Although I have to say that AnomanderRake's suggestion makes it sound reasonable enough for me. Nice technobabble workaround.
Dr H wrote:And on Lexicanum, it says that the bolt "possesses a super-dense metallic core" so that'll be the penetrator and weight.
The problem with Lexicanum is that it takes info from any source the respective editor can get his hands on. Unfortunately, this results in an unordered mess, since 40k does not use a uniform canon but rather lots of different author interpretations or "visions" resulting in quite a number of deviations and contradictions. So I suppose we would have to establish whether we want to go by GW material in this discussion, or by whatever source Lexicanum gives for this particular statement.
Dr H wrote:The main charge would be used to set off the deuterium as you have in any nuclear bomb.
I would assume then it would not be called a "main charge" but rather a "fuse" or a "trigger". Main kind of implies that this is the part responsible for the big boom, rather than a supporting element.
Also, the Kraken Penetrator round uses a "heavier main charge" but removes the deuterium core in favour of adamantium. Which I'm not sure would work well as the basis of a nuclear chain-reaction, or even any explosion whatsoever.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/06 00:13:53
Dr H wrote:Ahh, but if you wanted to increase the weight of the round using deuterium is pointless as it's a gas, twice the weight of hydrogen but not the heaviest of elements.
That's what I meant with the screw-up. The "depleted" prefix leads me to believe they were looking for something like "depleted uranium", which is used in modern ammunition. Since they are game designers rather than scientists, and likely did not think that we would have countless heated debates about such minor details on the internets, they went with another element without checking if it makes any sense.
I see, we are agreed on that.
Yeah, I mentioned the depleted uranium link earlier.
I mean ... why would you deplete deuterium? Even if you wanted to make a mini-nuke, you'd use enriched deuterium (aka heavy water), not the opposite.
Actually heavy water is deuterium oxide. Deuterium is heavy hydrogen. (Sorry that's the chemist in me)
Agreed on the point though.
Dr H wrote:And on Lexicanum, it says that the bolt "possesses a super-dense metallic core" so that'll be the penetrator and weight.
The problem with Lexicanum is that it takes info from any source the respective editor can get his hands on. Unfortunately, this results in an unordered mess, since 40k does not use a uniform canon but rather lots of different author interpretations or "visions" resulting in quite a number of deviations and contradictions. So I suppose we would have to establish whether we want to go by GW material in this discussion, or by whatever source Lexicanum gives for this particular statement.
Fair enough, I don't have any of the official GW publications and so the internet is my only source of information of this kind. As lexicanum was used in an earlier post I assumed it was fine. The reference given for the metallic core is "Dark Heresy Rulebook, pg. 133 checked". But whether that is a good source or not, I do not know.
Dr H wrote:The main charge would be used to set off the deuterium as you have in any nuclear bomb.
I would assume then it would not be called a "main charge" but rather a "fuse" or a "trigger". Main kind of implies that this is the part responsible for the big boom, rather than a supporting element.
Also, the Kraken Penetrator round uses a "heavier main charge" but removes the deuterium core in favour of adamantium. Which I'm not sure would work well as the basis of a nuclear chain-reaction, or even any explosion whatsoever.
That is a valid point. In nuclear bombs they're usually referred to as primary and secondary so that doesn't help clear that up.
The Kraken round is built for penetration and not expolsive damage so the chain-reaction is not needed. The main charge there is just to give the penetrator the kick.
And finally;
I'm not trying to say that the bolt most definitely works on nuclear fusion. I was just suggesting a reason for there being deuterium inside.
I understand explosives and I understand nuclear reactions. I am however not an expert on 40k.
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Dr H wrote:Actually heavy water is deuterium oxide. Deuterium is heavy hydrogen. (Sorry that's the chemist in me)
Agreed on the point though.
Whoops. Yeah, I see it now - apparently you can turn enriched deuterium into heavy water, but it's not the same thing without treatment.
We never had this stuff in school, so I'm basically going by what google throws at me and trying my best to understand the connections.
Dr H wrote:Fair enough, I don't have any of the official GW publications and so the internet is my only source of information of this kind. As lexicanum was used in an earlier post I assumed it was fine. The reference given for the metallic core is "Dark Heresy Rulebook, pg. 133 checked". But whether that is a good source or not, I do not know.
Well, it's not a GW source - but that does not make it more right or more wrong. Just another version of the setting.
I did not even notice this bit until now, and I've played the Dark Heresy RPG for years! Guess it's a plain ole' fluff conflict, given that GW's books say the core is made from depleted deuterium. Unless in 40k this magically turns into a metal... The writers probably noticed how silly the deuterium is and decided to go with another idea that sounds more sensible.
Dr H wrote:The Kraken round is built for penetration and not expolsive damage so the chain-reaction is not needed. The main charge there is just to give the penetrator the kick.
Hum. After taking another look at the different descriptions of the bolts on the pic I posted earlier, I noticed that "main charge" might indeed refer to the propellant rather than an explosive - the stuff that drives the rocked forward ...
Hence both the main charge as well as the propellant base are replaced by less loud gas cartridges in the Stalker shell.
Going by the pic, I'm assuming that:
"Propellant base": 1st stage propellant, the stuff that kicks the bolt free of the barrel
"Main charge": 2nd stage propellant, rocket burn starts once projectile has cleared the barrel
"Detonator cap": the actual explosive
"Depleted deuterium core": core for added weight / kinetic force
"Diamantine tip": ensures penetration of the target
Man, they really could've labeled this a bit less confusing!
Dr H wrote:I understand explosives and I understand nuclear reactions. I am however not an expert on 40k.
That's what threads like these are for - to pool our knowledge! Yours is certainly welcome; I do like to find ways to combine 40k fluff with realism as well. Finding explanations (and sometimes excuses) can be a rather fun activity, I think.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/06 01:19:09
Let's just chalk it up to the Mechanicum not knowing what Deuterium is either and they accidentally called something else that. That one mistake got passed down through the generations and now the word really has changed meaning.
Dr H wrote:Actually heavy water is deuterium oxide. Deuterium is heavy hydrogen. (Sorry that's the chemist in me)
Agreed on the point though.
Whoops. Yeah, I see it now - apparently you can turn enriched deuterium into heavy water, but it's not the same thing without treatment.
We never had this stuff in school, so I'm basically going by what google throws at me and trying my best to understand the connections.
Yeah, you can turn deuterium into heavy water the same way you turn hydrogen into water... burn it. I've actually used heavy water. As a solvent for NMR samples. It's essentially water.
Enrichment (when you're talking uranium) is a process that adds more U235 to the usual U238. U235 is the isotope that undergoes fission in a bomb.
The thing with deuterium is that you can't do this to make it more useful. It's the equivalent of adding some hydrogen to it and deuterium undergoes nuclear fusion (sticking atoms together) as opposed to uranium that undergoes nuclear fission (splitting atoms).
I suppose that adding tritium to deuterium could be considered enrichment and that is kind of what is done in hydrogen bombs. Don't go bang without some tritium.
Spoiler:
Dr H wrote:Fair enough, I don't have any of the official GW publications and so the internet is my only source of information of this kind. As lexicanum was used in an earlier post I assumed it was fine. The reference given for the metallic core is "Dark Heresy Rulebook, pg. 133 checked". But whether that is a good source or not, I do not know.
Well, it's not a GW source - but that does not make it more right or more wrong. Just another version of the setting.
I did not even notice this bit until now, and I've played the Dark Heresy RPG for years! Guess it's a plain ole' fluff conflict, given that GW's books say the core is made from depleted deuterium. Unless in 40k this magically turns into a metal... The writers probably noticed how silly the deuterium is and decided to go with another idea that sounds more sensible.
It's not as much of a conflict as you may think as Lexicanum still keeps the deuterium, it just adds the metal core to everthing else in the pic you posted.
Interestingly, under enough pressure liquid hydrogen (and quite likely deuterium) does become metallic in nature e.g. conducts electricity.
Spoiler:
Dr H wrote:The Kraken round is built for penetration and not expolsive damage so the chain-reaction is not needed. The main charge there is just to give the penetrator the kick.
Hum. After taking another look at the different descriptions of the bolts on the pic I posted earlier, I noticed that "main charge" might indeed refer to the propellant rather than an explosive - the stuff that drives the rocked forward ...
Hence both the main charge as well as the propellant base are replaced by less loud gas cartridges in the Stalker shell.
Going by the pic, I'm assuming that:
"Propellant base": 1st stage propellant, the stuff that kicks the bolt free of the barrel
"Main charge": 2nd stage propellant, rocket burn starts once projectile has cleared the barrel
"Detonator cap": the actual explosive
"Depleted deuterium core": core for added weight / kinetic force
"Diamantine tip": ensures penetration of the target
Man, they really could've labeled this a bit less confusing!
I think the main charge is still the exposive, as the detonator cap is just there as a detonator would be for any explosive.
So...
The propellant gets the bolt from the gun to the target.
The Diamantine tip allows the round to penetrate the target.
The mass reactive detonator cap... reacts to the mass it just hit and starts a short fuse before exploding.
The detonator's explosion sets off the main charge which goes boom.
The target drops like a sack of spuds...
The depleted deuterium core is therefore present for the extra mass to aid penetration or an added bonus for nuclear fusion to make the boom bigger.
The other thing I thought of with this is that if the depleted deuterium core is there just to add mass to aid penetration, why not use the adamatine as in the Kraken round... I suppose, answering my own question, it's the difference in how the rounds work:
Normal bolt, enters target then explodes.
Kraken round, explodes on contact and drives the adamatine spike into the target. A bit like the shaped charge and copper cone of a modern day RPG.
The other thing not mentioned yet, is that a conventional explosive is not enough (especially when encased in a fragmentation shell) to cause deuterium to undergo fusion. You effectively need a normal uranium fission bomb to set off the fusion...
So I think we'll agree that the depleted deuterium is there as an analogue to depleted uranium and any similarities in name to a certain gas called deuterium is purely coincidental...
And yeah, could be labelled and explained clearer in the official fluff.
Dr H wrote:I understand explosives and I understand nuclear reactions. I am however not an expert on 40k.
That's what threads like these are for - to pool our knowledge! Yours is certainly welcome; I do like to find ways to combine 40k fluff with realism as well. Finding explanations (and sometimes excuses) can be a rather fun activity, I think.
Indeed, fun fun fun. It's been enjoyable thinking and learning about all this.
Every explaination here is as valid as the next.
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Wow this is fascinating, I'm learning about 40k and modern day science all at the same time. Please continue.
Here is my 2 pence, I believe the deuterium core acts as a catalyst for the main charge to increase the yield of the explosion from the detonator cap (as said above acts as a fuse).
But hey it's 40k, so maybe even cheese is a explosive by then as I've never read of anyone eating it in 40k so it must be toxic, and I don't mean from your @ss
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/06 16:58:26
Come into my web, said the spider to the fly.
Come rest your wings, and let us talk eye to eye.
For I am a spider, and you are the fly. Now that you are here, let us sit, and say hi.
But I have have no morsel to share, nor anything to eat. But wait, what is that stickiness upon your feet.
Ah now I have you, now I can eat. Now I can enjoy you, or store you as meat.
For I am the spider, and you are the fly. How else could it have gone, between one such as you, and one such as I.
Sorry, but that picture reeks of a huge lack of technical knowledge about grenades or modern day ammunition. Grenades have a primer/detonator, the main charge/explosive, and the casing. Modern day ammunition has the shell, primer, powder, and bullet. They tried to combine them into some RPG thing.
Basically, it should be
-the propellant, which shoots the round out of the barrel.
-the next propellant stage, which actually carries the round to the target.
-the deuterium core, which I guess adds mass and weight to the round, but is otherwise pointless.
-the "mass reactive tip" which I guess is a fancy way of saying "detonator."
-the tip, which I guess is used for penetration, but RPGs do not penetrate, they use the force of their explosion to damage things.
-Spin stabilized... no kidding. Really? Man, that's something new. Oh wait, all modern day ammunition is spin stabilized, and has been since the 1860s. This is what I mean, when I say they fail at basic firearm principles, and what this actually is; RPGs and missiles are not spin stabilized. They have fins. Arillery shells also have fins an spin, but Bolter Shells do not have fins.
The closest equivalent would be artillery shells. However, Bolter shells use a different launching mechanism and are some almost coherent combination of a grenade and modern day ammunition. The main problem is that they're missing a stage of propellant, either the one to launch it from the barrel after the trigger is pulled or to further propel it after the first stage has finished.
Hear that? That's the sound of a lot of the tech speak in here going over my head.
fascinating read though.
Lol.
If there is something you would like explained further, you only need ask and someone on here may be able to answer as with any section of Dakka. Or is may just trigger another wave of discussion.
McNinja wrote:Sorry, but that picture reeks of a huge lack of technical knowledge about grenades or modern day ammunition. Grenades have a primer/detonator, the main charge/explosive, and the casing. Modern day ammunition has the shell, primer, powder, and bullet. They tried to combine them into some RPG thing.
Basically, it should be
-the propellant, which shoots the round out of the barrel.
-the next propellant stage, which actually carries the round to the target.
-the deuterium core, which I guess adds mass and weight to the round, but is otherwise pointless.
-the "mass reactive tip" which I guess is a fancy way of saying "detonator."
-the tip, which I guess is used for penetration, but RPGs do not penetrate, they use the force of their explosion to damage things.
-Spin stabilized... no kidding. Really? Man, that's something new. Oh wait, all modern day ammunition is spin stabilized, and has been since the 1860s. This is what I mean, when I say they fail at basic firearm principles, and what this actually is; RPGs and missiles are not spin stabilized. They have fins. Arillery shells also have fins an spin, but Bolter Shells do not have fins.
The closest equivalent would be artillery shells. However, Bolter shells use a different launching mechanism and are some almost coherent combination of a grenade and modern day ammunition. The main problem is that they're missing a stage of propellant, either the one to launch it from the barrel after the trigger is pulled or to further propel it after the first stage has finished.
Generally agree.
Couple of points though.
The lack of a primary propellant is
a) likely that the writers just thought it would be enough the propel the shell from the gun and onwards to the target, like a missile. Even RPGs have two stages of propellant.
b) possibly explained by the boltgun housing a method of propelling the bolt from the gun before the bolt's propellant ignites (e.g. compressed gas at the simplest of levels, not very exciting that though).
And that RPGs, while not penetrating themselves, do house a copper cone that is turned into a thin spike by a shaped charge and that spike is what does the penetration.
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I'd still think the "main charge" is the 2nd stage propellant, but I'm at a point where I could see it being the main explosive as well. It depends on how you interpret the detonator cap (fuse or main explosive?), I suppose.
Don't have a problem with the "spin-stabilised", though. The barrel is rifled, so the bolt spins, which stabilised the projectile. It's not truly wrong to point it out regardless of it being a standard - it sounds like fancy technobabble, and I'm sure there are a number of gamers who lack knowledge about firearm principles.
Here's some more from the Wargear book, by the way:
"It is a short compact weapon that fires a small missile or bolt considerably larger than an ordinary bullet. The bolt contains an armour piercing tip, an explosive, and a mass reactive detonator. It is shot from the barrel under low velocity, its own propellant igniting once the missile is clear of the barrel. The explosive detonates only when it has pierced armour. Any sudden increase in local mass activates the explosive and blows the target apart from the inside.
Bolt guns are noisy and their effects are visibly devastating. Effective range is not great, and they are thus ideally suited to a shock/assault role."
As for the bolter having its own method of propelling the bolt - the cross-section notes a "piezo-electric ignition chamber", which I take it is for triggering the miniature explosion of the 1st stage propellant that pushes the bolt out of the barrel. This also explains why bolters spit out empty shells like a normal gun. Note how all of the bolts on the image have a small base whose diameter is slightly larger than the projectile, just like a normal modern day bullet.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/08 01:55:19
As for the bolter having its own method of propelling the bolt - the cross-section notes a "piezo-electric ignition chamber", which I take it is for triggering the miniature explosion of the 1st stage propellant that pushes the bolt out of the barrel. This also explains why bolters spit out empty shells like a normal gun. Note how all of the bolts on the image have a small base whose diameter is slightly larger than the projectile, just like a normal modern day bullet.
Oooh Piezo-electric materials are intereresting.
They change shape (in at least one dimention) and hence create movement when an electric current is passed through them or they create an electric current if they are exposed to physical stress (bent or squeezed). Usually a crystal and usually only small movements. They have been used for small scale speakers and microphones to change the sounds to electricity and then back to sound.
But with much (30 odd thousand years of) development it's possible that larger movement could be produced to maybe act as a hammer / striking pin to fire the bolt.
Oh yeah, I temporarily forgot that bolters eject spent shell casings. So acting like a normal gun would work fine to propel the bolt out the gun at "low velocity before igniting". So only the actual bullet is replaced by the mini-missile of the bolt.
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What about just having one of these but with a propulsion system attached? Obviously slightly modified so as to explode when inside the target, but we're nearly there already...
p_gray99 wrote: What about just having one of these but with a propulsion system attached? Obviously slightly modified so as to explode when inside the target, but we're nearly there already...
Good find.
Didn't know they existed.
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Better yet, HEAP is one of the available ammunition types for the AA-12 fully automatic shotgun. Still my favorite real life almost-bolter equivalent. Even has nearly the same caliber!
Who cares? It just works, and no one knows exactly how. Not the player base, nor the in-universe artificers, and certainly not the random assortment of nerds that cherry picked sci-fi/fantasy tropes based on rule of cool to create the 40K universe.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/08 14:47:06
Omegus wrote: Who cares? It just works, and no one knows exactly how. Not the player base, nor the in-universe artificers, and certainly not the random assortment of nerds that cherry picked sci-fi/fantasy tropes based on rule of cool to create the 40K universe.
I have no problem with people thinking this, but what is your reason to post on this thread? Honestly, if you don't want to discuss it then... just don't discuss it?
Lynata wrote: I'd still think the "main charge" is the 2nd stage propellant, but I'm at a point where I could see it being the main explosive as well. It depends on how you interpret the detonator cap (fuse or main explosive?), I suppose.
Don't have a problem with the "spin-stabilised", though. The barrel is rifled, so the bolt spins, which stabilised the projectile. It's not truly wrong to point it out regardless of it being a standard - it sounds like fancy technobabble, and I'm sure there are a number of gamers who lack knowledge about firearm principles.
Here's some more from the Wargear book, by the way:
"It is a short compact weapon that fires a small missile or bolt considerably larger than an ordinary bullet. The bolt contains an armour piercing tip, an explosive, and a mass reactive detonator. It is shot from the barrel under low velocity, its own propellant igniting once the missile is clear of the barrel. The explosive detonates only when it has pierced armour. Any sudden increase in local mass activates the explosive and blows the target apart from the inside.
Bolt guns are noisy and their effects are visibly devastating. Effective range is not great, and they are thus ideally suited to a shock/assault role."
As for the bolter having its own method of propelling the bolt - the cross-section notes a "piezo-electric ignition chamber", which I take it is for triggering the miniature explosion of the 1st stage propellant that pushes the bolt out of the barrel. This also explains why bolters spit out empty shells like a normal gun. Note how all of the bolts on the image have a small base whose diameter is slightly larger than the projectile, just like a normal modern day bullet.
I would assume that it has either some launching mechanism within the weapon, or the Bolt is fired like a standard autogun, but the actual bullet is simply larger and contains what is shown in he picture. Also, a detonator can only be interpreted one way, as something that causes something else to detonate. Detonators, when used in the military, constructions, or demolitions, is always a button or something that causes the mian explosive to go off. Just like you need a detonator for C4, otherwise it won't go off.
McNinja wrote:Also, a detonator can only be interpreted one way, as something that causes something else to detonate. Detonators, when used in the military, constructions, or demolitions, is always a button or something that causes the mian explosive to go off. Just like you need a detonator for C4, otherwise it won't go off.
Hmmh, that may be true for the correct term, but we're talking about the same people who came up with "depleted deuterium" as a filling and whose explanation for why there cannot be Femarines really doesn't make any sense in biology. I mean, Star Wars has "Thermal Detonators" as grenades, and I've seen "DetPacks" in multiple games like Team Fortress or the Crusader series, and nobody is complaining about that either.
That got me thinking, though - deuterium is highly flammable. How silly would it be to assume that "depleted deuterium" could be used both to increase the weight of the projectile and to go boom with large force when you compress it really, really, really hard? AnomanderRake mentioned you could make a "really dense chunk of matter" out of it, but then again, it'd probably lose its flammable qualities if you mingle it with platinum, right...?
That got me thinking, though - deuterium is highly flammable. How silly would it be to assume that "depleted deuterium" could be used both to increase the weight of the projectile and to go boom with large force when you compress it really, really, really hard? AnomanderRake mentioned you could make a "really dense chunk of matter" out of it, but then again, it'd probably lose its flammable qualities if you mingle it with platinum, right...?
/chemistrynoob
Firefox crashed while I was typing a reply here and I can't be arsed to type it all again so here's the short answer as you wouldn't be that interested in the long answer anyway.
Deuterium would be flamable, like hydrogen. although I can't find the numbers quickly to calculate which would burn hotter.
If deuterium was incorporated into the crystal lattice of platinum (or palladium as I noticed on wikipaedia) it wouldn't burn until it escaped the metal. As for something to burn you need oxygen, and that wouldn't be able to get into the lattice to mix with the deuterium quickly enough (I'm not even sure if oxygen would be able to penetrate the crystal lattice) to react sufficiently to be considered burning.
And the small amount of deuterium that you could fit into a bolt wouldn't create much of a flame to add much to the main explosive charge.
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p_gray99 wrote: What about just having one of these but with a propulsion system attached? Obviously slightly modified so as to explode when inside the target, but we're nearly there already...
Of course, there are some obvious problems with bolters and fluff - mainly, that they do not suck at short range, as they should if relying on a rocket propulsion (speed should increase as distance traveled increases, until propellant charge is completely used up). This should mean that a bolters penetration capability would start at "zero" range being kinda crappy, go up until a certain optimal distance (propellant charge used up) and then start decreasing again as air resistance slows the round (unless you are in space )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/10 19:16:12
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(Sorry that's the chemist in me)
(Iron Warriors) 
So acting like a normal gun would work fine to propel the bolt out the gun at "low velocity before igniting". So only the actual bullet is replaced by the mini-missile of the bolt.
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