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So - I have struggled a bit lately with my Tau Army as soon as a flyer has turned up. As reliable as Broadsides and Hammerheads usually are, I am the KING of rolling 1's and 2's.

SO! In a brief moment of inspiration, I came up with a solution that was MOST effective last time I played.

I dropped a hammerhead and a few other bits and went for an allied attachment.

Marine Captain - 100pts
Aegis Defense Line + Quadgun - 100pts
5 Scouts with boltguns - 75

So what I ended up with was a base where I had a BS of 5 shooting everything out of the sky and managed to get rid of 2 vendettas and killed 3/4 of what was inside when it crashed down.

Might seem like a points bleed, but meant that the Tau could run on to victory. I hope I can change this out in the future for something more plausable, but It's the only heroic startegy I have against flyers.

I like this a lot. Would it be worth investing just a little more points to make it a tougher, more productive unit?

Captain, Terminator Armour, Power Axe - 125
ADL + Quad Cannon - 100
5 Scouts, Boltguns, Heavy Bolter, Camo Cloaks - 100

For 50 points more, you go from 3+ or 4+ w/t 4+ cover to 2+ or 4+ with 3+ cover. That makes them a lot more survivable and resilient to assaults.

The heavy bolter is probably pretty optional but it does add 3 poisoned shots.

You could even go silly and combo Lysander w/t 10 scouts, camo cloaks and 2 heavy bolters. No one is going to shift that and it actually provides solid output too.

 iainslomoscott wrote:
So - I have struggled a bit lately with my Tau Army as soon as a flyer has turned up. As reliable as Broadsides and Hammerheads usually are, I am the KING of rolling 1's and 2's.

SO! In a brief moment of inspiration, I came up with a solution that was MOST effective last time I played.

I dropped a hammerhead and a few other bits and went for an allied attachment.

Marine Captain - 100pts
Aegis Defense Line + Quadgun - 100pts
5 Scouts with boltguns - 75

So what I ended up with was a base where I had a BS of 5 shooting everything out of the sky and managed to get rid of 2 vendettas and killed 3/4 of what was inside when it crashed down.

Might seem like a points bleed, but meant that the Tau could run on to victory. I hope I can change this out in the future for something more plausable, but It's the only heroic startegy I have against flyers.

Two really important things here:

- Hammerheads are anything but reliable.

- Taking Telion on the gun would be better.

Haven't got the telion model sadly. Just thinking how to make this work for the TAU, so don't really want to use named characters as I'm using it as a small auxiliary unit, while somehow trying to stay a bit fluffy (renegade marines etc)

 iainslomoscott wrote:
Haven't got the telion model sadly. Just thinking how to make this work for the TAU, so don't really want to use named characters as I'm using it as a small auxiliary unit, while somehow trying to stay a bit fluffy (renegade marines etc)

Honestly for Tau I wouldn't bother with Marines, I'd take Eldrad and a squad of Jetbikes. Model Tau on jetbikes (similar to Piranhas) and make Eldrad as a snazzy looking Ethreal. Give him Divination to make your shooting more reliable and your squads less squishy. He is BS5 I think too so you can put him on the Quad Gun.

While that would be lovely, Eldrad is 210 points. I'm trying to figure out the cheapest way to shoot down flyers and can't think of another way for the Tau until new stuff comes out.

Twin-Linking any unit you desire does help shoot down flyers, while it also buffs your army as a whole, which is more important than taking a lesser choice for a specific role, especially when the better choice achieves that as well.

If you are going to spend 100 pnts on an HQ, why not go for a Master of the Forge?

Still have BS 5 and you get to Bolster your defences

 iainslomoscott wrote:
Just thinking how to make this work for the TAU,

Why use Marines at all? Tau have BS 5 characters.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 iainslomoscott wrote:
Just thinking how to make this work for the TAU,

Why use Marines at all? Tau have BS 5 characters.

Very True, but for a crisis suit to stand behind a quad gun, I'd rather have something small with an iron halo that's not going to suck in close combat.

You could consider a basic Farseer with guide and a minimum squad of Rangers.

The Farseer has BS5 in addition to access to Divination (meaning they can swap the Eldar-only Guide for the Primaris to benefit Tau) and a 4+ invulnerable save. The Rangers themselves offer a bit of sniper fire support and give the Farseer Stealth which takes advantage of the Aegis Defense Line.

The total cost should work out to 170 points, so you save 5 points over the marines and gain a bit more utility.

AH! Now That I can dig!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just as an overall thought, regardless of Marine / Tau / Eldar, what do people think to this tactic as an anti-flyer powerhub for the Tau?

Just as an overall thought, regardless of Marine / Tau / Eldar, what do people think to this tactic as an anti-flyer powerhub for the Tau?

The issue I have with the Quad Gun is that an air force can easily dedicate firepower to destroying the gun and rendering the tactic useless. 2 Night Scythes, on average, kill a quad gun.

I like the Aegis defense line, but I am far less crazy about the quad gun. In addition, Tau actually have the ability to take on flyers due to a large amount of twin linked weaponry. In particular, the twin linked missile pod Crisis suits en masse.

Other option, 50 lootas.

 iainslomoscott wrote:

what do people think to this tactic as an anti-flyer powerhub for the Tau?

It's rather pointless.

Broadsides are better and more efficient anti-flier units available to Tau and they are inside the existing army list.

Quad guns just don't kill fliers. They annoy them and occasionally damage them. Mostly they just make a target of themselves.

OP didn't disappoint.

Which point level did you utilize this strat, if I may ask?

 iainslomoscott wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 iainslomoscott wrote:
Just thinking how to make this work for the TAU,

Why use Marines at all? Tau have BS 5 characters.

Very True, but for a crisis suit to stand behind a quad gun, I'd rather have something small with an iron halo that's not going to suck in close combat.

If it's standing at the back of the board behind an ADL with the purpose of anti-flyer why would combat matter? You seem to be trying to get too much out of too little to be honest. Your army is going to crap at combat no matter what you do; one Space Marine Captain isn't going to change that.

Any Tau players here have the problem I have against flyers?

I've only thought of this as I had terrible luck with broadside and missile pods not rolling 6's. The quad gun seems more likely for me to take down vendettas or similiar when zooming. I've probably not been to clear as I wouldn't be to worried in hover mode.

Broadsides are better.

My point is the broadsides and hammerheads don't have Skyfire or interceptor rules. Which was a problem for me against flyers.

Unless I have misread something somewhere?

 iainslomoscott wrote:
My point is the broadsides and hammerheads don't have Skyfire or interceptor rules. Which was a problem for me against flyers.

Unless I have misread something somewhere?

No you didnt miss any hidden Broadside/Hammerhead rule that grants them Skyfire, its just that with the twin-linked, S10 AP1 nature of a Broadside the necessity of skyfire is diminished somewhat because you get to re-roll the dice if you didnt get a 6 for HtH. In addition, since Broadsides are already in the Tau Empire you dont need to spend the points outside the Codex on an ally.

Quad guns, however nice with their 4 shots, are still just S7 AP4 (same S/AP as Tau missile pods that get only 2 shots) and you can take many many more crisis suits than Quad Guns. if you like the idea of S7 AP4 just take a squad of Deathrain (TL MP, TL) Suits and hope for 6's. When you look at that scenario you can already tell that a squad of three Broadsides with their S10/AP1 TL Rail guns would be the better option vs a flyer. Plus you can throw on Target locks to let them shoot at up to three different flyers.

I know you said you seem to roll many more 1's and 2's rather than 6's but remember that dice have no memory and every time you roll it its just as likely to hit 6 as any of the other sides.

It's really too bad most armies like to make you lead from the front. I heard we grew out of that.
I'd love it if my HQs had less of an investment in frontline combat and more to invest in for utility and shooting.

 iainslomoscott wrote:
My point is the broadsides and hammerheads don't have Skyfire or interceptor rules. Which was a problem for me against flyers.

Unless I have misread something somewhere?

Twin-linked Railguns are mathematically superior at killing zooming fliers than Quadguns even without Skyfire.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 iainslomoscott wrote:
My point is the broadsides and hammerheads don't have Skyfire or interceptor rules. Which was a problem for me against flyers.

Unless I have misread something somewhere?

Twin-linked Railguns are mathematically superior at killing zooming fliers than Quadguns even without Skyfire.

Hmm is that all Flyers or just the AV 12 ones?

I've had amazing luck with my Quad gun. Especially considering it's manned by Gretchen.

I like fire dragons using a quad gun. Tank hunter is hilarious on a quad gun!

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Twin-linked Railguns are mathematically superior at killing zooming fliers than Quadguns even without Skyfire.

Hmm is that all Flyers or just the AV 12 ones?

All fliers except the AV 10, two hull point ones. Even a third hull point makes the rail gun better.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Twin-linked Railguns are mathematically superior at killing zooming fliers than Quadguns even without Skyfire.

Hmm is that all Flyers or just the AV 12 ones?

All fliers except the AV 10, two hull point ones. Even a third hull point makes the rail gun better.

I just like to think of it as an extra ~two lootas with skyfire.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 iainslomoscott wrote:
My point is the broadsides and hammerheads don't have Skyfire or interceptor rules. Which was a problem for me against flyers.

Unless I have misread something somewhere?

Twin-linked Railguns are mathematically superior at killing zooming fliers than Quadguns even without Skyfire.

That's a very broad blanket statement. How many Broadsides? What flyers? Who is on the Quad Gun? Could you show your math on that please?

For instance 3 Broadsides do 0.92 HP to AV11 while a BS4 Quad Gun does 1.78 HP to AV11. But these might not be the parameters you were refering to, but hard to tell since you never stated as such.

Dice luck aside, 3 broadsides get 3 shots (re-rollable) to hit on 6's.

A quad gun manned by a BS5 character get's 4 shots (re-rollable) to hit on 2's.

Am I right here against light armoured flyers?

iainslomoscott wrote:A quad gun manned by a BS5 character get's 4 shots (re-rollable) to hit on 2's.

Ok, but why take a BS5 character like a Captain that does nothing else for your army, than a BS5 character like a souped up Farseer or Eldrad?

And having the Skyfire rule isn't the be-all-to-end-all of AA options.