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Might have to increase my pledge now you have shocked my wallet with new revisions

 Dannicus wrote:
A really nice revision to the stretch goals. As per the kickstarter update page:

Due to us dropping below the first stretch I have revised the goals. I have upped the model counts on all of the stretch goals x2 and the first goal x5. Each Stretch goal still includes a new sculpt. There will also be mini-stretches between each big stretch.

Well, that's just sweet! And smart, I think

All those modifications look nice.

I am definately keeping my $150 pledge where it is at.

I will stay at the 200 level right now but looking to increase depending on what is released next.

 Yodhrin wrote:
We are as free to express our desire that new minis fit into the scale we favour as you are to complain about other people's preferences.

Never said you weren't.

 cincydooley wrote:
Hey Sid. The scale issue has nothing to do with being GW compatible for a lot of is here. It has to do with requiring is to completely re-outfit our tables with terrain. That's a big deal.

I can see that, but so far they don't look like they'll be so horribly out of scale that existing 28mm terrain won't work. I would think you could still play with all your hills, trees, etc.

As for buildings and stuff I imagine a lot of new terrain will need to be built anyway, to match the aesthetic of Thon's architecture that we've seen from the artwork. Which I don't really see as a bad thing, or at least I personally don't have a problem with making new terrain.

 Dannicus wrote:
A really nice revision to the stretch goals. As per the kickstarter update page:

Due to us dropping below the first stretch I have revised the goals. I have upped the model counts on all of the stretch goals x2 and the first goal x5. Each Stretch goal still includes a new sculpt. There will also be mini-stretches between each big stretch.

lol, holy crap. Sadly though I dropped my pledge down to the $100 Mite level last night before this news, since the rulebook doesn't really feel necessary and the only truly "exclusive" miniature so far is Spirit. I might up my pledge again later though with add-ons.

Also, I think we need more pics of the card terrain/cover, that one on the KS isn't much to look at. And for people interested in the vehicles I noticed this in the comments by JR:

@ Tim / Alvin - The vehicles are prohibitively expensive to model and mold, which I why we are here. They are set up as a higher end stretch goal, since they will take a fair amount of resources to make. If we don't make it to them, I will look at offering them separately.

So if you want to see the vehicles before the end of this (and later this year when it hits retail) then it apparently hinges on the success of this Kickstarter.

That's good info on the vehicles.

Okidan_Champion wrote:
_Price has come up a number of times.
I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on what is acceptable/similarly priced goods, or what you *want* to pay for these and other models?

The MSRP is not set in stone and I will lower it as much as I can. Until they are manufactured and shipped I can't say with certainty.

I would say try to shoot for $15 for character figs that are standard "human" sizes (like Vakon) where as the bulkier ones like Daughtus should reach $20 with truely massive ones only reaching $25 each. Standard line trooper types that you need multiples of should be around $15 for 2 if human sized (like the honor guard) and $20 if significantly bulkier. Combo sets like your Warkeeper Caurus and 2 honor guard should go for $30 to $33 max to still give a token discount compared to buying figs of that size separately ($20 for bulky character +$15 for two rank and file human sized). Pricing at the above costs still puts you in the upper end of the market above even know companies like Reaper that is often talked about in terms of both quality and value but still at a reasonable number for a completely new game that doesn't have a long time minis or cross media tie-in following (like if you were doing the "official" mass effect minis). These prices are still above your KS offered ones in most cases and I'd personally put nailing that ahead of increasing the stretch goals any further (which by the way are INCREDIBLY generous at this point). That said.. the preceeding is based on true 28-32mm scale that I think you still haven't reached yet.



People who post in this thread (including myself) seem to love the aesthetic and look of the world you're creating and I'm sure there are others that will agree when they see the minis on the shelves. I wouldn't discount the importance of random buyers of 1-2 figs that don't necessarily want them to play Thon. I've bought literally hundreds of figs over the years that I thought just looked cool for use in both beer and pretzel "bring anything" minis games as well as RPGs for characters. If the figure looks too out of place with the others in that same general category (like the realistically proportioned one you're going for), I personally don't buy them. I don't want NBA players running around with the rest of my scifi RPG characters or skirmish warband. Just to give you another comparison with some of the figs I'm talking about, here's a pic with an infinity fig as well a slightly exaggerated merc with another space marine for comparison as well. It would really help to get an accurate idea of the scale if you placed the Thon figs next to other realistically proportioned ones (like the oft mentioned Infinity line or even the old prepainted plastic Star Wars minis) in addition to the ubiquitous space marine.



I'd try very hard to get the unarmored or minimally armored (in terms of bulk) humanoids like Vakon and honor guard and manakins to no taller than the chaos marine you've got pictured and then just keep the scale consistent within your universe to that. I hope that change in scale will help you as well reach the price points I mentioned above.

God, you don't notice so much when they're grouped with their own, but the Space Marine models in the pic above look so toyish in comparison to the others. Even Herpderps McBarrelbody looks better.

I really, really wish I could afford to stay in this one. I love the aesthetic, the bits of background I've read so far, and especially (most of) the models.

For me, the scale isn't as important with sci fi (lol, genegineering), but Thon just can't afford to alienate any potential customers. The two biggest concerns that they can deal with are the projected MSRP pricing and the scaling. If they fix those, or at least ameliorate them somewhat, that should help welcome a bunch of new customers. Unfortunately, I think this KS will underperform what it should achieve just because of the timing. There are half a dozen other highly anticipated mini kickstarters going on right now, and that is the real problem. It might help for Thon to take a more Dreadball approach by fostering communities, tournaments and forums for sharing fanfiction/projects/whatever to lay the groundwork for a second, larger KS later. Instead of making new sculpts at each stretch goal, they can work on campaign rules or quick-play board game scenarios or something. Make Thon a game that is easy to get into and widely known. Then cash in on it.


I do like how Thon spent a long time putting out bits and pieces of info before the KS. I honestly think Thon would be doing WWX numbers if the timing were better (and the scale and pricing issues were dealt with more quickly).

Its a good update, I hope it is a timely one too.

Its still falling, 42k now

I think it will go up a litte after wwx ks ends aloy of gamers a going in heavy with that ks. I hope this one bounces back I love the minis so far.

So I was stalking this Thon a little bit because I'm in love with the concept art, and I found this:
http://talent.adweek.com/gallery/THON-The-Game/5433927
Mostly unrevealed concept art. A ton of awesome stuff is in the works. I especially love the civilian/priest looking B&W concepts.

Also this:
http://cghub.com/images/view/449403/

 inqscott wrote:
I think it will go up a litte after wwx ks ends aloy of gamers a going in heavy with that ks. I hope this one bounces back I love the minis so far.

Maybe, maybe not.

I don't think that we'll see a big uptick because certain campaign ends - money spent is money spent - it's gone!

A shame that this one is bleeding out as much as it is...

Indeed. Unfortunately, putting out your stuff (no matter how good it looks.. and this does look good!) in a scale that isn't compatible with much and charging more as the new kid on the block than the biggest companies out there for the figs (like $25 human characters) aren't the best ideas. I do hope that those two issues are addresses sooner rather than later before this dips down below the initial funding goal. GOA frankly deserved to fail due to poor planning and hubris; this doesn't and rather just needs a few tweaks in scale (easy) and retail pricing (not necessarily easy). While it's difficult to get an exact match due to differences in angle, I tried matching the width of the marine bases to compare the size of the figs. Unfortunately, Vakon towers over everyone (even the marines) like Herman Munster even after his recent rescaling.

I have to admit - I didn't see THAT happening.

Ouch!

I know.

What the heck?

A confession first. I've backed this project to hopefully participate in the discussion, but pulled my 100 cents after getting all the interesting things in updates.

Second, the timing really couldn't have been worse, and this became apparent in the last 5 days - a new hope for Tau is coming. And this brings the question of scale - Kickstarter price vs. the MSRP back to the table. Many of those who wanted to back Thon for minis only now has turned their attention to the competition.

This project is just 6 days from un-reaching its funding goal, and the more pictures with orange battle suits will hit the web, the more likely this will happen. I am actually willing to bet on this happening.

Third, not to sound just pessimistic, this is what I see as a possible saving points.

"The game's Core Set consists of a skirmish sized army from both the Sons of Ord and the Thonian Alliance, dice, markers, reference cards and rulebook."

There should be some pledge goals without all the "dross" - simply a set of every single sprue to be produced for the project, for the collectors and modellers and those too cautious to pledge high. Similarly, there should be an a la carte menu of sprues, and not just in 15$ or 25$ increments.

Fighting through the fanboy mob is difficult, but even the worst circumstances may be (hopefully) used, if this set is promoted on the forums as an alternative to the battleforce. Right now it is 1 "not-broadside", 5 "not-crisis" (if Daughtus is included), 1 "non-ethereal" with 2 "non-honour-guard", 2 "non-stealth" and a bunch of drones and bits. Manakins are not particularly fitting for warriors, but using parts of more "human-like miniatures" this can be worked around. The first stretch goal will greatly help.

How does this compare? $50 for a Broadside. A match for a post-Kickstarter Havoc. $25 for a single Crisis. Fireborn are cheaper. Battleforce I can't read, presumably £80. Nominally in favour of Thon after the first stretch goal is met. It's an uphill battle against a well established opponent.

From reading I scale is becoming a major sticking point. I don't belive the scale is as bad as Dystopian Wars not even close. Scaling that close can be fixed with proper basing. I say show the scale of the Ord that will be either the show killer or the party starter I'm betting on the latter.

I think, unfortunately, the early bird strategy is backfiring with this campaign- folks rushed to get in on it, treating it like one of the big board game campaigns, then dropped when they didn't like what they saw.

I think it would've been better to take Dreamforge's approach in this case- no early birds, no special deals, just a good deal and taking fan feedback into account for stretch goals. It would make the "whiplash" effect of early backers coming in on a whim with little info and then bailing much less.

I also am not a fan of folks doing that... I've only cancelled my pledge on one project, Kingdom Death, and I felt I was very justified in doing so due to the things that were revealed at the time I did (partnerships, level to get stretches, overall cost, etc). But in this case I don't know why folks are bailing. I'm guessing the scale pics could be a reason, but the modified scale is much closer. I feel like people should've given them more of a chance if they had backed to start with before cancelling.

I still expect this to maintain it's funding level, but it has been a tough stretch!

I'm back in as much as I can afford. I really do want Thon to succeed because I think it looks like the most interesting new Science Fiction game out there. I'm not backing any other Kickstarters right now, but the timing is still bad for me financially--still recovering from the holidays and going into Tax Season is enough to make any wallet cautious.

I think Wirecat has a good point about "foot-in-the-door" purchase levels. Also, are you making any textured bases or terrain for this game? Try selling that as an add on.

I backed out because other KS appealed to me more. I wasnr enamoured by the exclusives of Thon, and I like the overall sculpts of WWX and Warzone more. Further, Arena Rex popped up, and so did Krosmaster.

I'd drop all of the above if wrath of kings or confrontation Phoenix started all of a sudden.

We are very interested in this project here at Angry Badger. How extensive will your art book be?

Hope you succeed.

And we're now officially under $40,000 and the kickstarter has lost 2/3 of the money earned since initially getting funded. I do wish that Okidan would post here as he did earlier when things were on the upswing about any changes if any that are planned to stop the bleeding of backers. The increased stretch goals were very generous (and unnecessarilly so IMO) but didn't actually help in any way since I don't think the stretch goals were the actual problem. He's obviously under no obligation to do so but I can't see how staying silent will help the endeavor more than doing so.

The scale issues were the decider for me. I like the concept art, I liked the test minis. I was an early bird backer that canceled.

I also think the responses could have been more clear and concise. Too often, early on, the answers made the questions less clear.

I hope the KS succeeds (as I like the fluff and the multiple uses/roles for the game bits) but I won’t be backing this one.

I'm staying in, but at this stage, I'm not confident it'll go forward.

I didn't think it would be possible, but this one is actually headed towards dipping BELOW the funding goal!




There's still plenty of time to turn it around, but... this one's in serious trouble.

 Alpharius wrote:
I didn't think it would be possible, but this one is actually headed towards dipping BELOW the funding goal!

There's still plenty of time to turn it around, but... this one's in serious trouble.

I think KS is this great slideshow of human nature, all illustrated with charts and graphs and comment flame wars.

Think about the wildly successful projects and how many people joined just to be part of the "big event"? Momentum is infectious. Similarly when a project inevitably stalls people panic and start pulling pledges because the project isn't exciting any more. It's still the same deal, same awesome minis that is there when the person signed up - but they justify it somehow.

It's the same part of our brains that causes people to *not* pledge for a project until it's successfully funded. Why when there is zero risk to their money until it is funded - and their money helps make it happen?

We excel at making totally illogical decisions and then justifying it after the fact.

It can be reversed, but it will need a major effort, not sure if it is worth spending that effort to reverse it, instead of spending it to redo it.

Its a worthy project the illustrations and the models look good, I would like to see it succeed, if not from the first attempt maybe with the second.

People do seem to be urging him to cancel the campaign and try again later.

That might be a good idea at this point...