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 Kanluwen wrote:

I didn't say strictly GW's B&M shops. Should have clarified, that's my bad.

What does this have to do with GW's miniatures being priced so high?

 Kanluwen wrote:

It is rare to find an independent shop that does not stock GW's products here in the US. It is even more rare to find one which does not have some kind of active GW community, whether it is Specialist Games or 40k/Fantasy(usually 40k though).
It is only recently that a shop I've been frequented began to stock Mantic's products. The reason being that prior to Warpath's "Corporation" line, there was no interest. The same with their "Kings of War" line and the Elves+Dwarves. The Undead would have sold, but stocking an entire range just to sell one particular boxed set is not really feasible for many independents.

Again, I've said that the far greater sales and distribution can be said to enable GW to lower prices, not raise them, so what does your example have to do with GW miniatures prices being so high?

 Kanluwen wrote:

PLC status means that they have a "responsibility" to their stockholders before the customers.
Changing sculpts has to do with prices because inevitably, in any price based discussion people point towards the older models which the player base is being charged an arm and a leg for.

Do you have any proof that lowering the prices would see a reduction in corporate prices? Because I believe it would see a return to the hobby of priced out gamers and an increase in start up hobbyists. Thereby increasing the company's profit and benefiting their shareholders. I selected the marauders as 'near' in shape and aesthetic to the 'barbarians from the other companies. The age is irrelevant.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The Chaos Marauders plastics are a good example of that. In the grand scheme of things, they are rather pants sculpts. When they came out that was a different story--but they, like many other plastic kits, have not aged well.

The age of the sculpts is not relevant, the aesthetic is not relevant. I could have chosen imperial greatswords but they the 'they are elite' or 'some other flimsy horsegak' would have been deployed. Stop fixating on which unit I chose and look at what I was pointing out.

Why do they charge models at such a high price?

Because they know that their gak is addictive to us kewl d00ds and because we
fething BUY THEIR gak UP

Griever wrote:
Sold all my GW stuff, got into Warmachine and also made enough money to buy christmas presents this year.

Not looking back. WarmaHordes is cheaper to get into, quicker to play, has a better tighter ruleset, makes better models, has a more appealing release schedule, and more people play it.

don't tempt me.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

I didn't say strictly GW's B&M shops. Should have clarified, that's my bad.

What does this have to do with GW's miniatures being priced so high?

The same thing that has to do with generic store brand aspirin being cheaper than a brand name like Advil?

They up the price because people fixate on brand recognition.

 Kanluwen wrote:

It is rare to find an independent shop that does not stock GW's products here in the US. It is even more rare to find one which does not have some kind of active GW community, whether it is Specialist Games or 40k/Fantasy(usually 40k though).
It is only recently that a shop I've been frequented began to stock Mantic's products. The reason being that prior to Warpath's "Corporation" line, there was no interest. The same with their "Kings of War" line and the Elves+Dwarves. The Undead would have sold, but stocking an entire range just to sell one particular boxed set is not really feasible for many independents.

Again, I've said that the far greater sales and distribution can be said to enable GW to lower prices, not raise them, so what does your example have to do with GW miniatures prices being so high?

Greater sales and distribution can be said about any number of high priced products compared to their generic counterparts with the same components/ingredients.

The generic brands keep their prices low by outsourcing production and distribution. They do not maintain their own facilities and do not have to pay that upkeep, which goes up when production/distribution costs go up.

They will reach a tipping point eventually where they have to start up their own production lines as the demand exceeds the supply that their producer can reasonably make without closing out the other generics who outsource to them.

 Kanluwen wrote:

PLC status means that they have a "responsibility" to their stockholders before the customers.
Changing sculpts has to do with prices because inevitably, in any price based discussion people point towards the older models which the player base is being charged an arm and a leg for.

Do you have any proof that lowering the prices would see a reduction in corporate prices? Because I believe it would see a return to the hobby of priced out gamers and an increase in start up hobbyists. Thereby increasing the company's profit and benefiting their shareholders.

That gets stated every year. It's speculation. It seems sensible, but given the rather large secondary market and the "revolving door hobbyists" who start up and then flog their stuff on eBay/Craigslist/whatever, the "priced out gamers" usually come back at some point via that direction.

I selected the marauders as 'near' in shape and aesthetic to the 'barbarians from the other companies. The age is irrelevant.

Age might be irrelevant, but the fact that they're "Chaos Marauders" is not.
It comes down, again, to brand recognition. Someone who is just getting into the game and is ill-informed will not come into a shop asking for "Wargames Factory Ancient Britons" to create their Marauders.

They'll come in asking for Chaos Marauders.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The Chaos Marauders plastics are a good example of that. In the grand scheme of things, they are rather pants sculpts. When they came out that was a different story--but they, like many other plastic kits, have not aged well.

The age of the sculpts is not relevant, the aesthetic is not relevant. I could have chosen imperial greatswords but they the 'they are elite' or 'some other flimsy horsegak' would have been deployed.

Oh no, Imperial Greatswords are stupidly priced. The only Greatswords I had for my planned Empire army were those I got in the two Battalions I bought. I had no plans to buy more, especially once they removed the Greatswords from the Battalion.

Stop fixating on which unit I chose and look at what I was pointing out.

The reason for high prices is "brand recognition" and a perception by GW that people will keep buying at these prices.

Because people do keep buying at these prices. Whether you buy from an online retailer who discounts or from a GW shop that has no discounts, GW gets their blood from a stone.

 Ugavine wrote:
STOP THE PRESS
Games Workshop shops are shops that want to sell their products shocker!

I don't play in stores, don't want to, never wanted to, don't understand why people want to.

My local GWs are more than a FLGS than most LGS I have been to with great friendly staff. Maybe I just have good GW stores and have only been to poor games stores, but that's how it is.

To me a GW store, or any gaming store, is exactly that, a retail outlet for their products. I go their to buy things.

So you intentionally toss away 20 - 25% of your money? I don't understand buying at retail if you're not going to play there. You may as well get it from any discount online store.

Thank you Kanluwen,

Two pages of circular argument to end up agreeing with my original points.

well done...

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Thank you Kanluwen,

Two pages of circular argument to end up agreeing with my original points.

well done...

I didn't actually get that from your "original points", so perhaps it was not as clear as you thought?

What I got from your point was that "X and Y are cheaper than Z" in a post about "price gouging"(which is primarily applied to raising the prices of necessary goods during emergency situations).

We can agree though that Greatswords are stupidly priced and whoever thought of that price should be slapped with a carp, I hope?

Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 Ugavine wrote:
STOP THE PRESS
Games Workshop shops are shops that want to sell their products shocker!

I don't play in stores, don't want to, never wanted to, don't understand why people want to.

My local GWs are more than a FLGS than most LGS I have been to with great friendly staff. Maybe I just have good GW stores and have only been to poor games stores, but that's how it is.

To me a GW store, or any gaming store, is exactly that, a retail outlet for their products. I go their to buy things.

So you intentionally toss away 20 - 25% of your money? I don't understand buying at retail if you're not going to play there. You may as well get it from any discount online store.

Peace of mind really, too many lost or missing parcels. One lost parcel and there goes more than any savings made. And I've lost more than one parcel.

That and GW is just 10 minutes walk from my house, better than waiting 10 days. The guys in the local GW are great too, so I don't mind popping in for a chat about the game.

And if you want to talk tossing away money, I drive a 37 year old Land Rover that does 14 miles to the gallon on - a good day.
I've said it before on the forums though, in general I don't think GW prices are that bad for the product. I just tossed 100 quid on a case of Heroclix the weekend which by comparison was nowhere near the value for money.

 Ugavine wrote:

Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 Ugavine wrote:
STOP THE PRESS
Games Workshop shops are shops that want to sell their products shocker!

I don't play in stores, don't want to, never wanted to, don't understand why people want to.

My local GWs are more than a FLGS than most LGS I have been to with great friendly staff. Maybe I just have good GW stores and have only been to poor games stores, but that's how it is.

To me a GW store, or any gaming store, is exactly that, a retail outlet for their products. I go their to buy things.

So you intentionally toss away 20 - 25% of your money? I don't understand buying at retail if you're not going to play there. You may as well get it from any discount online store.

Peace of mind really, too many lost or missing parcels. One lost parcel and there goes more than any savings made. And I've lost more than one parcel.

That and GW is just 10 minutes walk from my house, better than waiting 10 days. The guys in the local GW are great too, so I don't mind popping in for a chat about the game.

And if you want to talk tossing away money, I drive a 37 year old Land Rover that does 14 miles to the gallon on - a good day.
I've said it before on the forums though, in general I don't think GW prices are that bad for the product. I just tossed 100 quid on a case of Heroclix the weekend which by comparison was nowhere near the value for money.

Wow do UK online store suck that much? I order form the Warstore, had 1 lost package out of 20ish, got the replacement 5 days later.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

I hear this gakky answer frequently. It's usually touted by children who don't actually work for a living, [b]perhaps you are a child living with your parents?[b] I think this may well be the case given that you've never heard of price gouging?

I travel 3 hours a day to work 40 hours a week in a factory making pizzas mate.

But call me little timmy if it makes your tantrum over prices any easier. You're the one who can't cope with the concept of inflation without inflating it with corporate greed, I think maybe you need to grow up, huh?

 Testify wrote:

I travel 3 hours a day to work 40 hours a week in a factory making pizzas mate.

Ah, my sympathies, that would likely make me a sour little snowflake as well.

 Testify wrote:

But call me little timmy if it makes your tantrum over prices any easier. You're the one who can't cope with the concept of inflation without inflating it with corporate greed, I think maybe you need to grow up, huh?

Your reading comprehension is lacking.

Severely lacking, especially if you think this has anything to do with inflation.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Testify wrote:

I travel 3 hours a day to work 40 hours a week in a factory making pizzas mate.

Ah, my sympathies, that would likely make me a sour little snowflake as well.

I'm a sour little snowflake? I know how much money I can spend on luxeries, so I spend it. You're the one who whinges that prices go up. Welcome to the real world.

I've also reported you for condescending attitude. Look down on people who do the work in your society at your peril.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Severely lacking, especially if you think this has anything to do with inflation.

I've crossed paths with Testify a bit recently. My enduring impression is that he doesn't let his ignorance on a topic get in the way of having a jolly good opinion about it!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Severely lacking, especially if you think this has anything to do with inflation.

Hey what's plastic made of?

And what's used to heat the stores?



Seriously grow. The feth. Up. Prices go up, deal with it.

Zoned wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Its about $1500 to get into the gw hobby, and another $1000 a year for a new army/books/paints.

That's quite an exaggeration there. I mean, it's expensive (too expensive for new gamers, IMHO) but not that expensive.

For a new gamer, I think this is quite reasonable for a Space Marine army (all prices Canadian MSRP)

Hobby stuff

Starter set ~ $120 (for the rulebook mainly, though you get some great minis too)
Hobby starter set -~ $70
Primer ~$20
Large Figure case ~$120
codex ~$50

=~$380

Models

2 Space Marine Battle forces ~ $310
Devastator box ~$42

=~$352

That's 40 tacticals, 10 assaults, 10 Scouts, 2 Rhinos, 5 Terminators, 5 Devastators (probably make a ten man squad with some tacticals) and 2 HQs. I'd probably just use the Librarian from the starter set.

So all in all ~$732 before tax.

Is it Spez Marinez? Yes, but let's be honest, most new players start with Marines. Is it optimal or tournament hyper competitive? No, but it's a solid start and fine to cut your teeth on.

Good gaming!

kb305 wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Its about $1500 to get into the gw hobby, and another $1000 a year for a new army/books/paints.

Dammit I just realized how much I just spent since 1992....

1500 to get in? not even close.

you could have a GIANT space marine army for less than 400 bucks if you use online discounters.

throw in another 100 bucks for brushes, paint, drills.

i just bought 5 boxes of assault marines to the tune of 120 buck US. brand new, free shipping.

Oh Dakka, always an exception.

According to GW average person spends $1500 on warhammer in their first year. If Im wrong by all means tell me, I'll call up my old regional managers and yell at them for lying to me when I worked for the great enemy

I don't care for what GW says unless they come up with an actual listing of what their "average customer" buys in order to achieve the 1500$ goal.

 Testify wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Testify wrote:

I travel 3 hours a day to work 40 hours a week in a factory making pizzas mate.

Ah, my sympathies, that would likely make me a sour little snowflake as well.

I'm a sour little snowflake? I know how much money I can spend on luxeries, so I spend it. You're the one who whinges that prices go up. Welcome to the real world.

I've also reported you for condescending attitude. Look down on people who do the work in your society at your peril.

Ah, well as long as we've established 'if you don't like it, get out of the hobby' isn't a condescending attitude...

And all of this continues to divert away from what I showed you earlier, other companies produce plastic model soldiers for considerably less.

And I don't look down on people who do the work in my society, I only look down on purposely obtuse halfwits who don't bother to read other people's posts before lambasting them, patronizing them and thinking they can do all that without others returning the favor. You aren't one of those people, are you?

 azreal13 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Severely lacking, especially if you think this has anything to do with inflation.

I've crossed paths with Testify a bit recently. My enduring impression is that he doesn't let his ignorance on a topic get in the way of having a jolly good opinion about it!

Exalted for truth

 Ugavine wrote:

Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 Ugavine wrote:
STOP THE PRESS
Games Workshop shops are shops that want to sell their products shocker!

I don't play in stores, don't want to, never wanted to, don't understand why people want to.

My local GWs are more than a FLGS than most LGS I have been to with great friendly staff. Maybe I just have good GW stores and have only been to poor games stores, but that's how it is.

To me a GW store, or any gaming store, is exactly that, a retail outlet for their products. I go their to buy things.

So you intentionally toss away 20 - 25% of your money? I don't understand buying at retail if you're not going to play there. You may as well get it from any discount online store.

Peace of mind really, too many lost or missing parcels. One lost parcel and there goes more than any savings made. And I've lost more than one parcel.

That and GW is just 10 minutes walk from my house, better than waiting 10 days. The guys in the local GW are great too, so I don't mind popping in for a chat about the game.

And if you want to talk tossing away money, I drive a 37 year old Land Rover that does 14 miles to the gallon on - a good day.
I've said it before on the forums though, in general I don't think GW prices are that bad for the product. I just tossed 100 quid on a case of Heroclix the weekend which by comparison was nowhere near the value for money.

Gotcha. Once bitten, twice shy. I've always had good luck w online orders, but since I pay with paypal, its covered anyways. I dont mind the wait, because hey, whats waiting a few more days when I've got a pile of metal thats been going to be painted "any day now" from years ago.

 Testify wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Severely lacking, especially if you think this has anything to do with inflation.

Hey what's plastic made of?

And what's used to heat the stores?



Seriously grow. The feth. Up. Prices go up, deal with it.

Dude, seriously, stay away from economics.

Fuel increases affect inflation, everything goes up when fuel goes up and that is reflected.

GW regularly increases it's prices well in excess of inflation, that is the point.

Yes, plastic may become slightly more expensive, but it would make such a small increase per sprue it would be almost impossible to quantify.

 Sigvatr wrote:
I don't care for what GW says unless they come up with an actual listing of what their "average customer" buys in order to achieve the 1500$ goal.

$1500 a year is $28, or £17 a week. That's a box set every fortnight, without taking into account paints and supplies. Seems reasonable to me at face value.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 azreal13 wrote:

Dude, seriously, stay away from economics.

Fuel increases affect inflation, everything goes up when fuel goes up and that is reflected.

GW regularly increases it's prices well in excess of inflation, that is the point.

Yes, plastic may become slightly more expensive, but it would make such a small increase per sprue it would be almost impossible to quantify.

So the fact that oil and gas prices have increased roughly in line with GW prices is a coincidence?

Also milk/bread/meat/eggs have gone up as much, probably more in fact, than GW have. Do you even live in the real world dude? Prices are going up everywhere.

testify wrote:
So the fact that oil and gas prices have increased roughly in line with GW prices is a coincidence?

Also milk/bread/meat/eggs have gone up as much, probably more in fact, than GW have. Do you even live in the real world dude? Prices are going up everywhere.

Real world?!

I've been signed off work with a chronic, incurable disease for the last 5 months, trying to make things work on benefits. Don't sit there accusing me of not living in the real world when your own knowledge (as, if I piece together from some of your other posts correctly, an early twenties stoner who possibly still lives at home, job or no job) of real world economics is breath takingly poor.

An increase in the cost of raw materials does not translate to the same increase in price of the finished goods.

Inflation is the measure of price increases down to such things as price increases of fuel etc and increases out of line with inflation, special circumstances notwithstanding, is nearly always for profit.

 Testify wrote:

So the fact that oil and gas prices have increased roughly in line with GW prices is a coincidence?

Also milk/bread/meat/eggs have gone up as much, probably more in fact, than GW have. Do you even live in the real world dude? Prices are going up everywhere.

And yet, other manufacturers of plastic miniatures have not increased at the same rate, why are they not all bankrupt?

@all: Please keep in mind that Rule One is Be Polite. Attack arguments and not posters. Thanks!

azreal13 wrote:
Real world?!

I've been signed off work with a chronic, incurable disease for the last 5 months, trying to make things work on benefits. Don't sit there accusing me of not living in the real world when your own knowledge (as, if I piece together from some of your other posts correctly, an early twenties stoner who possibly still lives at home, job or no job) of real world economics is breath takingly poor.

An increase in the cost of raw materials does not translate to the same increase in price of the finished goods.

Inflation is the measure of price increases down to such things as price increases of fuel etc and increases out of line with inflation, special circumstances notwithstanding, is nearly always for profit.

I pay my own way in the world but that's by the by.

By your logic, Games Workshop should increase the price by a huge amount. Not the 5/10% that the popular boxes go up by, but by 50% a year, or hell a month. Greed, right?

In fact I just checked. Guardsmen haven't gone up in the past year. So your narrative of huge price increases is looking a bit rickity.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:[
And yet, other manufacturers of plastic miniatures have not increased at the same rate, why are they not all bankrupt?

Because they're a far lower quality than GW's? At a guess.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
@all: Please keep in mind that Rule One is Be Polite. Attack arguments and not posters. Thanks!

I don't mind being attacked as a person, it's when you attack my job that it bothers me. Maybe I'm just too English.

Oh hey, this thread again. hahaha

 Testify wrote:
Seriously grow. The feth. Up. Prices go up, deal with it.

LOL! Plastic prices. Yeah. 'Cause plastic is the most espensive part of the process. HAHAHAHAH!

I don't think "plastic and gas prices" are the reason the new LOTR minis have such high prices.

 Testify wrote:
Because they're a far lower quality than GW's? At a guess.

*falls off chair laughing*

Yep. That's it. GW uses such high quality plastic (FinePlastic?) that their prices go up and up and up!!!

Priceless!

 Testify wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:[
And yet, other manufacturers of plastic miniatures have not increased at the same rate, why are they not all bankrupt?

Because they're a far lower quality than GW's? At a guess.

Other than aesthetic, define quality and why these other companies are 'far lower'. I have heard this argument before and it always seems to boil down to 'well I don't think they look as nice'.

Oh I give up.

It's like trying to teach astrophysics to a cat.