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Now that I think about it, one of the greatest games I've ever had was with Space Marines, and I lost so many men that it was hilarious. I was going against my friend (he uses Dark Eldar), and by the end of the game, we decided to call it a draw. We had both lost so many men that we barely had a single squad left, each. And they were across the board from each other, both sitting on an objective. It was an absolute bloodbath. I was not upset when I lost a space marine, because I expected defeat anyways. But that still goes down as the greatest game I've ever played, not because neither of us one, but because of the sheer carnage we inflicted on each other.

 ShatteredBlade wrote:

 captain collius wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 captain collius wrote:


I have a friend who will challenge anything you do if he hasn't heard of it. he will ask you to show him it in your book.

He sounds very interested in learning the finer points of the game.

Good for him.

True he'll tell you after he's calmed down (dreaded 13th really gets him) this is how he learns ev ery other armies rules its actually quite instructional.

There is a difference though. Someone who does that and says, " Oh, wow I didn't know that!" is trying to learn. Someone who hands the book back and proclaims" That is such B and your army is broken I hate Mat Ward blah blah blah overpowered blah blah Congress." isn't exactly trying to learn the book.

True

There's two guys I play against once in a while that illustrate this point.

One is pretty new to the game, and likes to be on top of things.

Him: 'What's the BS on your Ravager?'

Me: "all my DE vehicles are 4, because DE BS is 4 standard, like your SM. '

Him : 'Ok, cool. ' - proceeds to remember that they are BS 4 from here on, with occasionally reminders if it's been a while between games.


Other guy...

Him: 'Whats the BS on your Ravager? '

Me: "all my DE vehicles are 4, because DE BS is 4 standard, like your SM. '

Him: 'That's BS! Everyone knows Eldar are BS 3 standard!'

Me : Shows him codex ' See, BS 4'

Him: 'Gotta be a typo. No way Eldar are as good shots as Space Marines! This is such BS! '

Me: 'Dude, it's 4 all through the codex. CWE have BS 3 units, but DE are base 4. Can we get back to the game? '

Him: (muttering..what bs, SM are better than Eldar ..) 'What AP are those Dark Lances again? Ap 4 right?)

Me: 'AP 2"

Him : Grabs codex and riffles, muttering ' what utter BS!' Xenos shouldn't have AP2! At least it's only S 8, not like my much-better Lascannons, so it's not going to hurt my Awesxome Land raider much.

Me: Explains the Lance rule.

Him: Goes incoherant about how BS OP powerful Xeno armies are compared to SM.

 Ascalam wrote:
There's two guys I play against once in a while that illustrate this point.

One is pretty new to the game, and likes to be on top of things.

Him: 'What's the BS on your Ravager?'

Me: "all my DE vehicles are 4, because DE BS is 4 standard, like your SM. '

Him : 'Ok, cool. ' - proceeds to remember that they are BS 4 from here on, with occasionally reminders if it's been a while between games.


Other guy...

Him: 'Whats the BS on your Ravager? '

Me: "all my DE vehicles are 4, because DE BS is 4 standard, like your SM. '

Him: 'That's BS! Everyone knows Eldar are BS 3 standard!'

Me : Shows him codex ' See, BS 4'

Him: 'Gotta be a typo. No way Eldar are as good shots as Space Marines! This is such BS! '

Me: 'Dude, it's 4 all through the codex. CWE have BS 3 units, but DE are base 4. Can we get back to the game? '

Him: (muttering..what bs, SM are better than Eldar ..) 'What AP are those Dark Lances again? Ap 4 right?)

Me: 'AP 2"

Him : Grabs codex and riffles, muttering ' what utter BS!' Xenos shouldn't have AP2! At least it's only S 8, not like my much-better Lascannons, so it's not going to hurt my Awesxome Land raider much.

Me: Explains the Lance rule.

Him: Goes incoherant about how BS OP powerful Xeno armies are compared to SM.

He should spend less time whining and more time shooting.

There used to be a time where I absolutely hated Dark Eldar, and would hate to go against them in a game. But then I discovered the merits of mechanized veterans.

 Ascalam wrote:
There's two guys I play against once in a while that illustrate this point.

One is pretty new to the game, and likes to be on top of things.

Him: 'What's the BS on your Ravager?'

Me: "all my DE vehicles are 4, because DE BS is 4 standard, like your SM. '

Him : 'Ok, cool. ' - proceeds to remember that they are BS 4 from here on, with occasionally reminders if it's been a while between games.


Other guy...

Him: 'Whats the BS on your Ravager? '

Me: "all my DE vehicles are 4, because DE BS is 4 standard, like your SM. '

Him: 'That's BS! Everyone knows Eldar are BS 3 standard!'

Me : Shows him codex ' See, BS 4'

Him: 'Gotta be a typo. No way Eldar are as good shots as Space Marines! This is such BS! '

Me: 'Dude, it's 4 all through the codex. CWE have BS 3 units, but DE are base 4. Can we get back to the game? '

Him: (muttering..what bs, SM are better than Eldar ..) 'What AP are those Dark Lances again? Ap 4 right?)

Me: 'AP 2"

Him : Grabs codex and riffles, muttering ' what utter BS!' Xenos shouldn't have AP2! At least it's only S 8, not like my much-better Lascannons, so it's not going to hurt my Awesxome Land raider much.

Me: Explains the Lance rule.

Him: Goes incoherant about how BS OP powerful Xeno armies are compared to SM.

Wow some people really don't play much.

He plays near constantly.

It's like this every single fething game.

He just won't accept any rule that hurts him without arguing it, and will browbeat his opponents into accepting his version of the rules.

Unfortunately (for us both) i tend to wind up opposite him in the league i'm in with a few friends, and he's the BFF for one of my friend's friends, so it's a bit hard to shift him. The rest of the group are awesome to play.

 Ascalam wrote:
He plays near constantly.

It's like this every single fething game.

He just won't accept any rule that hurts him without arguing it, and will browbeat his opponents into accepting his version of the rules.

Unfortunately (for us both) i tend to wind up opposite him in the league i'm in with a few friends, and he's the BFF for one of my friend's friends, so it's a bit hard to shift him. The rest of the group are awesome to play.

Well. If he's that bad, just bring the cheesiest list you can and slaughter him.

Since he's going to whine either way, why not make it a good one?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
"blah blah Congress."

I found this absolutely hilarious.

Actually i find it more amusing to slaughter him with so-called inferior units, like Flash Gitz and grotz mobz. or Talos/Cronos

It makes the little veins in his forehead throb

Next league get-together i'm taking an all grot army, led by grotsnik, just to see him have apoplexy when a lowly grot shoots down his commander.

I don't tend to care much about losses, although I'd admit that losing a super-pimped crisis suit is a bitch.

But when an enemy model just deepstrikes in, with some sort of "no serious error even possible" and proceed to kill twice his own cost before I even get a chance to react?
That, right there, pisses me off.

 BoomWolf wrote:

But when an enemy model just deepstrikes in, with some sort of "no serious error even possible" and proceed to kill twice his own cost before I even get a chance to react?
That, right there, pisses me off.

"Marbo"

At least that guy is one-per-army guy, who can actually fail with his scatter on the demo charge a bit. annoying, but ultimately not game-braking.

Also, I must admit, some things that hit my by suprise make me go "WHAT!? no way! you can do THAT?" and then proceed to check the codex, bt if the codex confirems, I just focus on removing said unit that took me off balance instead of whining about it.

Whining does not win games. shooting things full of holes and blasting them to narnia does.

I think some people are kind of missing the point here. I'm not talking about just general TFG behavior, I'm talking about a specific kind of bad behavior. That is, a complete misunderstanding of statistics that leads certain players to think that a 3+ armor save is way more effective than it really is, and complain about how unfair it is when they do things like roll ten saves and lose two models.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
You're not able to do that, you have to fire ALL your weapons at the target, if you cannot do that you cannot light something up, so he was somewhat right in his complaint.

Wrong. The rule says that you do it after firing all of your weapons, as in you can't fire one weapon, say "I searchlight", and then fire the rest of your weapons without allowing the cover save for night fighting. There's no requirement that you fire every single weapon on the vehicle or you can't searchlight.

And anyway, my opponent didn't complain about the searchlight, the point is that the unit he whined about because of that nasty AP 2 pie plate that could kill space marines didn't even get to shoot once, it just searchlighted and died without ever firing a pie plate.

 Peregrine wrote:
I

Wrong. The rule says that you do it after firing all of your weapons, as in you can't fire one weapon, say "I searchlight", and then fire the rest of your weapons without allowing the cover save for night fighting. There's no requirement that you fire every single weapon on the vehicle or you can't searchlight.

Shooting: Page 12

Check Range Rule:

At least one weapon must be in range of the Target Unit. If no weapons are in range, then a different target must be chosen.

The main issue is you are out of range to shoot in the first place.

It's an illegal action, so it cannot be performed.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
I

Wrong. The rule says that you do it after firing all of your weapons, as in you can't fire one weapon, say "I searchlight", and then fire the rest of your weapons without allowing the cover save for night fighting. There's no requirement that you fire every single weapon on the vehicle or you can't searchlight.

Shooting: Page 12

Check Range Rule:

At least one weapon must be in range of the Target Unit. If no weapons are in range, then a different target must be chosen.

The main issue is you are out of range to shoot in the first place.

It's an illegal action, so it cannot be performed.

Zebio is right. Can't target a unit outside 36", and can't searchlight something you can't target. In nightfight, that is.

Early on when I first started learning the game., I hadn't decided what army to play. A friend told me about SMs, and I decided to go for that. Nobody in the group played them, so it kept a very diverse environment.

I made all the rookie mistakes, taking too few units in favor of heavy weapons, loading up my HQs with wargear, and wasting points on pointless upgrades. I got my ass handed to me more times than I care to recall, and it was frustrating.

Rather than complain, I tried to fix my approach, albeit in a poor way. I looked to the other SM builds. I tried BAs (They sucked under 3.5.) and that failed, as there were way too many random elements bogging them down. I moved on to BTs, which actually worked out fairly well for me. It came down to finding new tactics that worked, and it took both time and a lot of painting to get there. That's what a lot of new players across the board experience.

They get sucked in by the fluff, the exposure of the "tier one" armies, and think that simply running those armies leads to victories. It just takes them time to finally figure out it doesn't work that way.

Take it from one of those people who came up with dumb fluff for his current original chapter, who still likes to name his characters. It's just Eager Rookie Syndrome, and the only cure is experience.

It has nothing to do with what army is being played, It's the level of maturity of your opponent.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
The main issue is you are out of range to shoot in the first place.

I was out of range for the main gun, the one that actually mattered.

I was in range to snap fire the hull heavy bolter at a Land Raider just so I could count as shooting at it and use the searchlight.

Anyway, that part isn't relevant because my opponent didn't complain about the searchlight. I only mentioned it to point out that the LR Demolisher didn't actually kill anything with that "overpowered" pie plate before it was killed.

There are more Space Marines players than other codexes, so it stands to reason you would be more likely to meet uncongenial players.

The other point is that Space Marines are often chosen by newcomers to wargaming, who are often younger, and in consequence less aware of odds, etc.

It would be unfair to say that Space Marines attract complainers.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There are more Space Marines players than other codexes, so it stands to reason you would be more likely to meet uncongenial players.

The other point is that Space Marines are often chosen by newcomers to wargaming, who are often younger, and in consequence less aware of odds, etc.

It would be unfair to say that Space Marines attract complainers.

I would agree that it is unfair to generalize all Space Marine players as the group that whines the most. I mean, I play against a Tyranid/Daemon player and when he feels like he isn't going to win he just proclaims that his codex sucks and gives up.

i try never to complain and i'm a die hard BA fan. i just like red. I give my friends the benefit of the doubt 90% of the time, if you say its that way. its that way. its just a game and your not being to paid to play it, why get mad or upset.

yeah, so brother corbulo just took 30 shots and made all of his saves. SO. move on, we've all seen stupid stuff roll out.

 Ascalam wrote:
There's two guys I play against once in a while that illustrate this point.

One is pretty new to the game, and likes to be on top of things.

Him: 'What's the BS on your Ravager?'

Me: "all my DE vehicles are 4, because DE BS is 4 standard, like your SM. '

Him : 'Ok, cool. ' - proceeds to remember that they are BS 4 from here on, with occasionally reminders if it's been a while between games.


Other guy...

Him: 'Whats the BS on your Ravager? '

Me: "all my DE vehicles are 4, because DE BS is 4 standard, like your SM. '

Him: 'That's BS! Everyone knows Eldar are BS 3 standard!'

Me : Shows him codex ' See, BS 4'

Him: 'Gotta be a typo. No way Eldar are as good shots as Space Marines! This is such BS! '

Me: 'Dude, it's 4 all through the codex. CWE have BS 3 units, but DE are base 4. Can we get back to the game? '

Him: (muttering..what bs, SM are better than Eldar ..) 'What AP are those Dark Lances again? Ap 4 right?)

Me: 'AP 2"

Him : Grabs codex and riffles, muttering ' what utter BS!' Xenos shouldn't have AP2! At least it's only S 8, not like my much-better Lascannons, so it's not going to hurt my Awesxome Land raider much.

Me: Explains the Lance rule.

Him: Goes incoherant about how BS OP powerful Xeno armies are compared to SM.

I would love to play against the complaining one... and propably end up driving him completely insane.

I think we'd drive him insane.

Iron Hands don't care about anything-even if 90% of their units get destroyed. The Emperor bless them

What if it is because marine players tend to be more plentiful, so we see them more often, therefore we see whiners more often.

You know, as a Space Marine player, I've never had this problem. One of my regular opponents plays Eldar. I know that even though I have good saves his army puts out about a gazillion shots a turn. Some are going to get through. I think there are alot of people who read the fluff about these marines being whirlwinds of destruction, pulling xenos arms off and beating them to death with it and they start playing the game thinking their dudes are going to be borderline invincible like in the fluff. I know there's stuff out there that can wreck my dudes. While having good saves is nice, I'm perfectly aware it's not guaranteed victory.

There's a new guy at my FLGS that brags about how he started playing GK because that was the most powerful codex and he wants to win. Well, he's been getting his ass beaten across the galaxy. He basically just assumed that he could show up with GK and just start tabling people. It's super annoying. His most recent "boo hoo" session was him telling his opponent about how Commander Dante's Death Mask was bs and that his opponent was making it up. Whenever he loses he gets very huffy and just tosses his models around back into their container. It's funny and annoying at the same time.

I have never won a game in 3 years with my IG/SM... I'm used to losing! xD

 gaovinni wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
There's two guys I play against once in a while that illustrate this point.

One is pretty new to the game, and likes to be on top of things.

Him: 'What's the BS on your Ravager?'

Me: "all my DE vehicles are 4, because DE BS is 4 standard, like your SM. '

Him : 'Ok, cool. ' - proceeds to remember that they are BS 4 from here on, with occasionally reminders if it's been a while between games.


Other guy...

Him: 'Whats the BS on your Ravager? '

Me: "all my DE vehicles are 4, because DE BS is 4 standard, like your SM. '

Him: 'That's BS! Everyone knows Eldar are BS 3 standard!'

Me : Shows him codex ' See, BS 4'

Him: 'Gotta be a typo. No way Eldar are as good shots as Space Marines! This is such BS! '

Me: 'Dude, it's 4 all through the codex. CWE have BS 3 units, but DE are base 4. Can we get back to the game? '

Him: (muttering..what bs, SM are better than Eldar ..) 'What AP are those Dark Lances again? Ap 4 right?)

Me: 'AP 2"

Him : Grabs codex and riffles, muttering ' what utter BS!' Xenos shouldn't have AP2! At least it's only S 8, not like my much-better Lascannons, so it's not going to hurt my Awesxome Land raider much.

Me: Explains the Lance rule.

Him: Goes incoherant about how BS OP powerful Xeno armies are compared to SM.

I would love to play against the complaining one... and propably end up driving him completely insane.

I strive to at every opportunity,

I'm working on it...

 Desert_thunder_heart wrote:
I have never won a game in 3 years with my IG

How...

Sorry, but what idiot cries when a model is killed, especially a basic infantry model? And who cries "lasguns are too powerful"? The OP sounds a bit over-the-top himself, I seriously doubt this actually happened.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Sorry, but what idiot cries when a model is killed, especially a basic infantry model? And who cries "lasguns are too powerful"? The OP sounds a bit over-the-top himself, I seriously doubt this actually happened.

Clearly you don't play pickup games.

Or you play in heaven itself.

Socially, wargamers tend to be more...maladjusted than some other demographics. By no means is this a blanket statement that all wargamers have poor social skills, but it seems they can be more prone to it.

During games where they lose, this possibility multiplies.