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I just read Ulrika the Vampire: Bloodforged, and I was confused about something that Ulrika stated when she confronted that Daemon towards the end. She said that the 'dark power' that animated her body was resisting the Daemon's influence even so up close, but then, where does that power come from, if not the Warp? Or is the necromantic power that was used to create vampires different from Chaos sorcery or 'normal' magic?

You should read the Nagash trilogy, he is afterall the father of the vampires (and the neferata one afterwards)

Nagash had nothing to do with the vampires creation aside from writing about the elixir of life. If Neferata never tried recreating it, the vampires would have never been. So it's hard to call Nagash the father of the vampires, even if he may refer to them as his children. Adoptive children, maybe.

yeah i believe that the vampires are possessed with a non-warp entity that gives them their unnatural vitality and requirement for blood, its never specified where the entities originate i remember reading about it in a white dwarf several years ago when they redid the vampire counts

Does it mention it somewhere in the VC army book?

i've read it somewhere that its one of the most raw magical essences.

If you read Black Plague, there is a character who becomes a necromancer, it says that the darkness or something like that enters his body. Its not the same as a vampire but it could mean something.

 muleyyy wrote:
yeah i believe that the vampires are possessed with a non-warp entity that gives them their unnatural vitality and requirement for blood, its never specified where the entities originate i remember reading about it in a white dwarf several years ago when they redid the vampire counts

Sounds like defunct fluff. Nothing is elaborated on anymore, other than Neferatas Elixir of Life causing her Vampirism, and the Blood Kiss spreading it. The Blood Kiss is different for each Vampire, and not elaborated on at all on how it is done. They do have natural or instinctual Necromantic powers based on Dark magic, but again, nothing elaborated on about how.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

willhman wrote:
If you read Black Plague, there is a character who becomes a necromancer, it says that the darkness or something like that enters his body. Its not the same as a vampire but it could mean something.

Most likely referring to Dark magic, which while blowing with the winds of magic, isn't quite the same. Dark Magic is where the tricks for Eternal life come from.

 -Loki- wrote:


Most likely referring to Dark magic, which while blowing with the winds of magic, isn't quite the same. Dark Magic is where the tricks for Eternal life come from.

Isn't Dark Magic magic in its crudest, most unrefined form, before it differentiates into the eight winds?

So it is - I didn't know what, only that it was distincly different to the 8 winds. It is still, however, where Necromantic power comes from. So talking about 'the darkness' entering their body, it's likely referring, still, to Dark magic.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
I just read Ulrika the Vampire: Bloodforged, and I was confused about something that Ulrika stated when she confronted that Daemon towards the end. She said that the 'dark power' that animated her body was resisting the Daemon's influence even so up close, but then, where does that power come from, if not the Warp? Or is the necromantic power that was used to create vampires different from Chaos sorcery or 'normal' magic?

You could probably take it as her dark magic is resisting the magic of the daemon.

Ok, so can someone please explain to me what's the difference between magic, Chaos sorcery, dark magic, high magic, and so on? Or is just like the difference between psychic abilities and sorcery in 40k?

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Ok, so can someone please explain to me what's the difference between magic, Chaos sorcery, dark magic, high magic, and so on? Or is justlike the difference between psychic abilities and sorcery in 40k?

I actually did a bit of reading about it today. Dark magic is, as you said, raw magic, before it is blown on the eight winds. High magic is the opposite - after it has blown on the eight winds, it is used collectively as High magic. Basically, High magic is using all eight of the winds at the same time. Divine magic is derived from a deity - Chaos sorcery would fall under this, and I assume Ogre (the great Maw) and Skaven (the Horned Rat) as well.

All BRB magic is from chaos. Even HE magic is from chaos. Lizardmen magic, the most anti-chaos race, still acknowledge it's from chaos. The Old Ones used the chaos magic, but that was before the actual rift was opened.

Only stuff like shamanistic and god-magic (that isn't some tricky chaos god/daemon prince) would be something else. So Mork/Gork, Great Maw. And maybe even those are just the dark powers in disguise.

I think the original question has nothing to do with magic. Dwarfs and Ogres and Greenskins are resistant to chaos taint. Some races just are. Even if they aren't remotely magical. I think of vampirism as some physical corruption. Almost its own taint. So it's harder to warp.

Also, taint can come from people actively choosing it. Think that the ruinous powers came about because mortals willed them into being. So they are naturally going to be influenced by them. But Ogres/Orcs don't amazingly need anything. Food and fights is about as far as they think. And dwarfs are too stubborn. Likewise, a vampire has nearly whatever they want. What could slaanesh offer a vampire? Or Tzeentch. They get get nearly it all by themselves.

The dragon ogres traded their souls in exchange for eternal life. Vampires already have that. The greatest reward a human can get is to ascend to being a daemon prince. Countless stories are about it. Vampires are already close to that in power.

The Daemon also noted Ulrika as an 'immortal' and something it never encountered before - "Never before have we had an immortal lover, one who could heal from every caress..." - squick aside, this line implies that the existence of vampires are beyond that of Chaos, so even if their power is warp-based, it may not necessarily Chaos-touched.

There's no such thing as warp, this isn't 40K. Chaos is the realm of chaos. It's all the same. Daemons are magic. They don't ever "die" unless their boss chooses to unmake them. Or unless all mortals stop being angry, or lustful or dying or being born...

Immortal just meant it could heal and not die. He'd find the same experience (just a lot grosser) with a Troll lover.

Vampires, MAY be immortal, but the very oldest is still a baby compared to old High Elves or Daemons or Tomb Kings and most certainly Slann, dragon ogres and dragons.

@DukeRustfield

But isn't the Warhammer world somewhere in 40k galaxy? Perhaps in a warp storm or even the Eye of Terror?

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
@DukeRustfield

But isn't the Warhammer world somewhere in 40k galaxy? Perhaps in a warp storm or even the Eye of Terror?

No. It was, back in about 3rd edition Fantasy, and even then was just a short bit of fluff in White Dwarf, but that has since changed. They're completely separate universes, however, think of the 'warp', or in the Fantasy universe, 'realm of chaos', as something that links them (it is said in some 40k fluff that it linked multiple alternate universes, though I can't quite remember which). IIRC, the Albion campaign even had some 40k weapons appear as wargear - a chainsword and a power fist, via the Realm of Chaos.


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DukeRustfield wrote:
Vampires, MAY be immortal, but the very oldest is still a baby compared to old High Elves or Daemons or Tomb Kings and most certainly Slann, dragon ogres and dragons.

The oldest (and original) Vampire, Neferata, is still alive - the Queen of Mysteries. She is older than the oldest Tomb King, which didn't become undead until after the last war for Nehekara when Nagash cursed them.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
@DukeRustfield

But isn't the Warhammer world somewhere in 40k galaxy? Perhaps in a warp storm or even the Eye of Terror?

No. It was, back in about 3rd edition Fantasy, and even then was just a short bit of fluff in White Dwarf, but that has since changed. They're completely separate universes, however, think of the 'warp', or in the Fantasy universe, 'realm of chaos', as something that links them. IIRC, the Albion campaign even had some 40k weapons appear as wargear - a chainsword and a power fist, via the Realm of Chaos.

Ah, so its like a sandwich - the 40k and Warhammer realms are the slices of bread with the Warp in between. So, how often do people and items from one realm pass to the other?

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
@DukeRustfield

But isn't the Warhammer world somewhere in 40k galaxy? Perhaps in a warp storm or even the Eye of Terror?

No. It was, back in about 3rd edition Fantasy, and even then was just a short bit of fluff in White Dwarf, but that has since changed. They're completely separate universes, however, think of the 'warp', or in the Fantasy universe, 'realm of chaos', as something that links them. IIRC, the Albion campaign even had some 40k weapons appear as wargear - a chainsword and a power fist, via the Realm of Chaos.

Ah, so its like a sandwich - the 40k and Warhammer realms are the slices of bread with the Warp in between. So, how often do people and items from one realm pass to the other?

Well, I don't think there's anything official stating it's like that, but it's pretty obvious when the Gods are the same (40k even has a place for 'lesser' gods like the Great Maw and the Horned Rat as simply mighty powerful daemons), the daemons are the same, and now even the Soul Grinder is around in Fantasy, which looks very '40k', a bio hitech mechanical fusion. There's even sorcerers in 40k - like the Tousand Sons. The fact that there's no psykers in Fantasy just means that no one in Fantasy has developed that yet.

Again, it's not outright stated anywhere, but it doesn't really have to be. The 'warp' and 'realm of chaos' being the same thing and a linking 'alternate' reality to both universes doesn't impact the setting of either at all.

The only time anything has passed would be obviously daemons, and those few items in the Albion campaign. It's not hard to see where the description of a 'howling sword hilt and teeth moving down the blade' is going. It's just not something GW capitalises on outside of being able to sell the full daemon range in both 40k and Fantasy.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
@DukeRustfield

But isn't the Warhammer world somewhere in 40k galaxy? Perhaps in a warp storm or even the Eye of Terror?

No. It was, back in about 3rd edition Fantasy, and even then was just a short bit of fluff in White Dwarf, but that has since changed. They're completely separate universes, however, think of the 'warp', or in the Fantasy universe, 'realm of chaos', as something that links them. IIRC, the Albion campaign even had some 40k weapons appear as wargear - a chainsword and a power fist, via the Realm of Chaos.

Ah, so its like a sandwich - the 40k and Warhammer realms are the slices of bread with the Warp in between. So, how often do people and items from one realm pass to the other?

Well, I don't think there's anything official stating it's like that, but it's pretty obvious when the Gods are the same (40k even has a place for 'lesser' gods like the Great Maw and the Horned Rat as simply mighty powerful daemons), the daemons are the same, and now even the Soul Grinder is around in Fantasy, which looks very '40k', a bio hitech mechanical fusion. There's even sorcerers in 40k - like the Tousand Sons. The fact that there's no psykers in Fantasy just means that no one in Fantasy has developed that yet.

Again, it's not outright stated anywhere, but it doesn't really have to be. The 'warp' and 'realm of chaos' being the same thing and a linking 'alternate' reality to both universes doesn't impact the setting of either at all.

The only time anything has passed would be obviously daemons, and those few items in the Albion campaign. It's not hard to see where the description of a 'howling sword hilt and teeth moving down the blade' is going. It's just not something GW capitalises on outside of being able to sell the full daemon range in both 40k and Fantasy.

Still, it would be great to see what happens when something from 40k like Draigo or an Astartes Company or a Guard regiment or even 'someone of no consequence' drops into the Warhammer realm.

No, it really wouldn't. The strength of both systems is they're not beholden to each other. There's an alternate dimension pouring out 'magic' that happens to be the same in both, but that's it.

 -Loki- wrote:
No, it really wouldn't. The strength of both systems is they're not beholden to each other. There's an alternate dimension pouring out 'magic' that happens to be the same in both, but that's it.

That sucks...oh well. I just have to live with it, I suppose.

They unlinked them for very solid reasons. 40K is earth/terra in the year 40K... That's a big deal. It has the planet mars and whatever else. If they were the same worlds, we should expect Richard Nixon in WHFB and Caesar and Kobe Bryant at some point. That's very limiting.

Even though a lot of WHFB looks and acts a lot like earth, it's high fantasy.

High Queen Whatserbutt might be old, but she's not even half as old as the Slann who were even frogging around before the chaos portals opened.

It was definitely a good idea separating them. It benefited both games, and allowed them to make two distinct universes with one linking feature that still works in both.