Are Grey Knights nerfed?

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**sudojoe**

How do you have a fort that has a 3+ cover save right now? I've been told that all the battlements are 4+, skyshield gives like nothing, defense lines are 4+ also. There's currently nothing that's taking advantage of the fortification rules atm since everything has been FAQ'ed to 4+ as far as I'm aware.

**Lobokai**

DeathReaper wrote:
Tomten wrote:
DeathReaper wrote:
Bolstered ruin for a 3+ and has stealth for a 2+

Or just within a fortification as noted on P.18 for cover saves.

But then you have to take a techpriest if you want to have 2+ cover in a ruin.

Correct, or just put out a fortification and have a 3+ base cover save.

Either way, 4 krak missiles, 1 misses or fails to wound, 3+ save, statistically dead... From the attention of a bored havoc squad. Mine usually is behind an ADL, so a quad is in the mix to seal the deal. Since there's no fliers on turn one anyway, its time well spent for me.

**DeathReaper**

sudojoe wrote:
How do you have a fort that has a 3+ cover save right now? I've been told that all the battlements are 4+, skyshield gives like nothing, defense lines are 4+ also. There's currently nothing that's taking advantage of the fortification rules atm since everything has been FAQ'ed to 4+ as far as I'm aware.

You put a fortification out on the board as terrain.

Fortifications are not only those that are bought with an army, you can have fortified bunkers, buildings etc... that are terrain pieces and are not one of the 4 listed "Fortifications".

Battlements are 4+, ADL's are 4+ The Skyshield gives a cover save and it is a fortification.

**Experiment 626**

Tomten wrote:
Do daemons stand a chance against GK?

Daemons are lucky to even be allowed to deploy against Grey Knights since everyone and their mother now takes Strikes and/or Interceptors.

If the Daemon player wins first turn, then we have a shot at it with a good alpha strike. If the Grey Knight player goes first and has one or more Warp Quake units that make their psychic tests... Well, I may as well just leave my Daemons in the case at that point.

Dark Ex is also a bit beyond silly, since our Daemons Princes can suddenly forget which God created them!

However, the funniest thing you'll ever hear in 40k is a Grey Knight player whining that Daemons are broken OP because of the WD update, Skarbrand and Flesh Hounds.

**AnomanderRake**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
AnomanderRake wrote:
Grey Knights are still fairly powerful, but not so much as they were. A lot of the changes in 6e have had rather mixed effects on the Grey Knights; let's take a look.

AP3 on normal power weapons. Terminators, which GK have easy access to, got a lot tougher, while Nemesis weapons got a little weaker; slightly positive in the long run.

Deny the Witch: Again, Grey Knights got more defenses against other peoples' psychic powers, but everyone else gets defenses against theirs. Slightly more positive here, since Grey Knights don't use many offensive powers.

Vehicle damage: On one hand the Grey Knights lost effective transports, which were central to their tactics in 5e, but on the other hand no vehicle is now safe from S8 psycannon spam. The Grey Knights' general lack of range is going to be a problem in 6e, this change is fairly negative for them.

Overwatch: Very good for the Grey Knights; they're tough enough to withstand Overwatch fire from other people, while getting to Overwatch with S5 Storm Bolters and the aforementioned S8 Psycannons.

Flyers: A problem; Grey Knights don't have a lot of range to down them, and Stormravens are fairly expensive as flyers go. Not insurmountable, but troubling.

So they'll probably end up playing differently, but they haven't really been nerfed or buffed all that significantly by 6e.

There is no such thing as a S8 psycannon.

Sorry; mistyped. S7 Rending is just as dangerous to most vehicles as S8, though, and S8 Psyflemen Dreadnaughts are still a thing.

**reaper with no name**

Are GKs nerfed? Yes. One of their 3 main competitive builds (Draigowing) is dead, several of their advantages are longer as significant (tearing apart light vehicles, assault vs MeQ, storm bolters), and there have been some direct nerfs (DtW, FWs being AP3).

Are they still overpowered? Absolutely.

**Luide**

reaper with no name wrote:
Are GKs nerfed? Yes. One of their 3 main competitive builds (Draigowing) is dead, several of their advantages are longer as significant (tearing apart light vehicles, assault vs MeQ, storm bolters), and there have been some direct nerfs (DtW, FWs being AP3).

Are they still overpowered? Absolutely.

If you think GK are OP, I wonder what you think about Necrons or IG (especially with SW allies) which are both way above GK in power scale.

**tuiman**

There was not doubt that when our codex first came out, we sat at the top of the tree for 5th edition, and yes we were op. However with 6th with have been reigned in a bit, I would say even with crons, guard & wolves. Big changes being vehicles easyier to kill, and the whole not assaulting from transports (even scoring in transports) hit quite hard.

So, grey knights are still are very strong codex, just not as strong as they were.

**Tomten**

I think that the vindicare assassin is the best assassin.

**reaper with no name**

Luide wrote:
reaper with no name wrote:
Are GKs nerfed? Yes. One of their 3 main competitive builds (Draigowing) is dead, several of their advantages are longer as significant (tearing apart light vehicles, assault vs MeQ, storm bolters), and there have been some direct nerfs (DtW, FWs being AP3).

Are they still overpowered? Absolutely.
If you think GK are OP, I wonder what you think about Necrons or IG (especially with SW allies) which are both way above GK in power scale.

I think they're both way above GKs in power scale.

**Tomten**

reaper with no name wrote:
Luide wrote:
reaper with no name wrote:
Are GKs nerfed? Yes. One of their 3 main competitive builds (Draigowing) is dead, several of their advantages are longer as significant (tearing apart light vehicles, assault vs MeQ, storm bolters), and there have been some direct nerfs (DtW, FWs being AP3).

Are they still overpowered? Absolutely.
If you think GK are OP, I wonder what you think about Necrons or IG (especially with SW allies) which are both way above GK in power scale.

I think they're both way above GKs in power scale.

Why are IG with SW allies OP?

**daedalus**

It's the alphastrike harmony that should have never happened. See also Prescience on HWS/tanks.

**AnomanderRake**

tuiman wrote:
There was not doubt that when our codex first came out, we sat at the top of the tree for 5th edition, and yes we were op. However with 6th with have been reigned in a bit, I would say even with crons, guard & wolves. Big changes being vehicles easyier to kill, and the whole not assaulting from transports (even scoring in transports) hit quite hard.

So, grey knights are still are very strong codex, just not as strong as they were.

...Wait, you were assaulting from non-Land-Raider transports in 5e? You couldn't assault out of Rhinos back then, either...

**AlmightyWalrus**

AnomanderRake wrote:
tuiman wrote:
There was not doubt that when our codex first came out, we sat at the top of the tree for 5th edition, and yes we were op. However with 6th with have been reigned in a bit, I would say even with crons, guard & wolves. Big changes being vehicles easyier to kill, and the whole not assaulting from transports (even scoring in transports) hit quite hard.

So, grey knights are still are very strong codex, just not as strong as they were.

...Wait, you were assaulting from non-Land-Raider transports in 5e? You couldn't assault out of Rhinos back then, either...

If you didn't move the transport you could.

**Tomten**

Can youassault from an open topped transport when it moved?

**felixander**

6" yes.

**Tomten**

So you can move 6 with your transport then disembark 6 then assault 2D6?

**felixander**

It's all described clearly in your Rulebook in the Vehicle section (~pg65)

**reaper with no name**

Tomten wrote:
reaper with no name wrote:
Luide wrote:
reaper with no name wrote:
Are GKs nerfed? Yes. One of their 3 main competitive builds (Draigowing) is dead, several of their advantages are longer as significant (tearing apart light vehicles, assault vs MeQ, storm bolters), and there have been some direct nerfs (DtW, FWs being AP3).

Are they still overpowered? Absolutely.
If you think GK are OP, I wonder what you think about Necrons or IG (especially with SW allies) which are both way above GK in power scale.

I think they're both way above GKs in power scale.

Why are IG with SW allies OP?

First off, IG are stronger than GKs to begin with (and some would argue that SWs are as well). But there is a lot of synergy between SWs and IG. In fact, Tony Kopach used this synergy to win at NOVA.

**Tomten**

can you take 4 rune priests with prescience an allies to IG?

**reaper with no name**

They are BB, so yes, you can.

**Tomten**

reaper with no name wrote:
They are BB, so yes, you can.

But can you take the same psychic powers to all of the Runepriests?

**nosferatu1001**

Yes, why couldnt you? You dont "take" the BRB powers at list building time, you do so at the start of the game.

You cannot take 4 as allies, only 2

**Tomten**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes, why couldnt you? You dont "take" the BRB powers at list building time, you do so at the start of the game.

You cannot take 4 as allies, only 2

Because the SW codex says that no two characters may have the same psychic powers.

**nosferatu1001**

When you build the list. Which is before you change to the BRB powers.

**Tomten**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
When you build the list. Which is before you change to the BRB powers.

The codex just says that no two characters may have the same psychic powers.

**DeathReaper**

Tomten wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
When you build the list. Which is before you change to the BRB powers.

The codex just says that no two characters may have the same psychic powers.

Check the FaQ:

Q: Can you clarify how The Leaders of the Pack works with regards to
psychic powers? (p81)
A: No number of Rune Priests may share the exact same two
psychic powers...
If you choose instead to take psychic powers from the disciplines in
the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, this restriction does not
apply, as the specific powers are selected randomly.

Page 6: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2570051a_Space_Wolves_v1.1.pdf

**Tomten**

But thats just good.