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So I haven't really had a chance to play in quite some time and I am really curious. What has 6th Edition done to IG Mech/Air Cav lists? Are they destroyed? Have tanks lost their awesomness? If so I am gonna have to change up my entire gameplan and army structure. Let me know your thoughts!

I personally find that veterans in chimeras are nowhere near as good as they were in 5th. That being said, Leman Russ tanks are making a real comeback. I haven't tried out vendettas yet; they're still OP as hell, but their role has changed dramatically

I'm a little odd in that I run LRconquerors, but right now tank squads rock. I ran 9 LR conquerors in a friendly battle against a CSM big shot in our local scene three weeks ago and just obliterated him. Brilliant player, but he had got so used to people not running heavy vehicles anymore that he was very hard pressed to tackle them except for assaulting them. As we play blind lists, it really was a bit of a trap game for him.

I know several RL friends in other areas have expressed the same: that the knee jerk dropping of heavy tanks allows players to exploit this blind spot with tank saturation.

Aircav is one of the strongest lists in the game at this exact moment; Chimera-vets aren't as effective as they once were due to 6e's changes to vehicle damage. Tanks haven't lost their awesomeness, but changes to Ordnance mean you need to mix and match Leman Russ variants more now and they're better played on a stationary gunline supporting infantry platoons in most cases.

Arcane over on Heresy had the following to say. It was really helpful, and I'm curious what you guys think.

"6th edition has brought many changes to the Mech side of 40k with Imp Guard getting some buffs and some nerfs, here's what I have found in my experience.

Russ's are still great and are still more likely to get blown up by high powered, concentrated attacks like Lascannons or Railguns than slowly glanced to death. Putting them behind an Aegis wall improves their survivability tremendously but not in the way you might expect. Given sufficient other targets, your opponent is simply more likely to choose to shoot at other things since the Aegis line serves to prove as a deterrent for wasted shots. Few people want to waste a whole turn shooting at something which has a 50% chance to just ignore it.

Leman Russ
Good:
-Safe behind Aegis lines.
-Ordinance blasts (Battle Cannon) now are full strength against vehicles even if the marker is not directly over the vehicle and roll 2d6 take the highest for armor pen.
-Variants (Executioner etc) can now fire their turret AND sponsons at full BS while moving 6 inches.
-Less likely to be Glance locked since Glances simply strip hull points and have no status effects.
-Cammo Netting's stealth stacks with easy to get cover.
-Like all vehicles may now move 12 inches and "run" a full 6 inches (flat out)
Bad:
-Can be Glanced to death (beware Str8 weapons)
-Can only fire snap shots (no flamers) from other weapons when firing Ordinance like the standard Battle Cannon.
-Only has 3 hull points, just like the lesser Rhino or Chimera

Chimera
Good:
-Less likely to be Glance locked since Glances simply strip hull points and have no status effects.
-Like all vehicles may now move 12 inches and "run" a full 6 inches (flat out) and gets your troops where you want them quickly!
-Like all transports, it can move up 6 inches and the troops may disembark another 6 inches, giving them a very long range if you need a quick melta strike or jog to an objective.
Bad:
-Can be Glanced to death (beware Str6 weapons)
-Only has 3 hull points
-Popping Smoke only confers a 5++ save
-Troops must disembark to count as scoring.

Valk/Vendetta
Good:
-Flyers can only be hit on 6s unless against skyfire units
-Cheap 3 TL lascannons make quick work of other flyers and enemy armor
-More maneuverable than other flyers thanks to Outflank and Deepstrike
-Can enter Hover to stay on the board or position for shooting/disembarking
-Extra Armor means they never get Stun locked and possible destroyed due to moving over enemy models
-Extremely cheap for 12 armor
Bad:
-Has to enter Hover to disembark infantry unless they want to risk gravchuting out and possible landing in impassible terrain (which kills them)
-Enters the board turn 2 or later
-Armor 10 rear ends presents a large target.

Overall I think Mech Guard has only gotten better. A wall of mech running up the board still does great and presents a huge threat to your enemy. Just don't expect half those vehicles to make it to the end of the game if you are lucky."

 Cappizzano wrote:
Leman Russ
-Like all vehicles may now move 12 inches and "run" a full 6 inches (flat out)

Only mistake I found. Russes can't move at cruising speed or go flat out, so stuck at 6" a turn. The rest was a good summary though.

I'm experimenting with an ABG/IG allied blobtank list. Heavy tanks and infantry, with a couple of hydras hidden away. I need a few more games of testing though.

I am trying to get a mostly Mech/Air Cav Army up to around 2.5K. Any suggestions on what I should absolutely take?

Vendettas for sure get. Their AT is plain ungodly. Plus they're fliers plus they're codex so all those whiners about FW stuff being & unfair can shut up since it's SO undercosted it's not funny, especially in 6th. From there I'd recommend a full squadron of Russ MBTs & an aegis line with quad gun. Medusas are incredible in 6th so I'd think about some of those, as well as give a thought to griffon & basilisk big guns. Oh & if your opponents will consent to FW look at getting some heavy artillery. They just became awesome in 6th. Beyond that? Definitely chimera spam because now you need spares to make up for the ones that WILL die.

 Red_Starrise wrote:
Vendettas for sure get. Their AT is plain ungodly. Plus they're fliers plus they're codex so all those whiners about FW stuff being & unfair can shut up since it's SO undercosted it's not funny, especially in 6th. From there I'd recommend a full squadron of Russ MBTs & an aegis line with quad gun. Medusas are incredible in 6th so I'd think about some of those, as well as give a thought to griffon & basilisk big guns. Oh & if your opponents will consent to FW look at getting some heavy artillery. They just became awesome in 6th. Beyond that? Definitely chimera spam because now you need spares to make up for the ones that WILL die.

I am trying to build up my IG Army to around 2.5K Points.

Right now I have the following and would like to know where to go next.

1 x PCS with Melta Guns
- Dedicated Chimera Transport with ML, and HB

1 x 10 Man Veteran Squad with 3 x Plasma Guns
- Dedicated Chimera Transport with ML, and HB.

1 x 10 Man Veteran Squad with 3 x Melta Guns
- Dedicated Chimera Transport with ML, and HF.

1 x Heavy Support Squad 3 x Lascannons.

I am planning to add 2-3 Valkyries/Vendetta's

I want a Basilisk because they make me warm and fuzzy inside.

I also plan to add 1-2 Manticore's. Let me know what you think!

1 x PCS with Melta Guns
- Dedicated Chimera Transport with ML, and HB

Others may disagree with me, but I find platoon command squads to be best served sitting in their chimera & giving orders with quad flamers to overwatch wall of death anyone who charges their ride.

1 x 10 Man Veteran Squad with 3 x Plasma Guns
- Dedicated Chimera Transport with ML, and HB.

Consider giving these guys carapace armor, 4+ is tougher than 5+ when you have to worry about your own guns killing you.

1 x 10 Man Veteran Squad with 3 x Melta Guns
- Dedicated Chimera Transport with ML, and HF.

I understand what you're doing with this tank & the PCS, but I'd rather have a 2nd vets unit kitted identically. Plus, consider an autocannon here because S7 snap shots aren't a bad thing & if you need to bunker in the chimera or it gets immobilized your meltaguns will be neutered & the entire squad will be useless.

1 x Heavy Support Squad 3 x Lascannons.

If you take 2 vendettas this squad may be better served as a ML squad due to versatility & ability to threaten a wider range of targets.

I am planning to add 2-3 Valkyries/Vendetta's

I want a Basilisk because they make me warm and fuzzy inside.

I also plan to add 1-2 Manticore's. Let me know what you think!

I'm not a fan of manticores just because they have limited shots, the logic of "they won't live that long anyway" I disagree with, well placed with good cover rolls & a screen against assault your arty can live all game potential, especially if it's out of LoS. Convert those valks into vendettas, in a standard guard army they're killer AT.

 Red_Starrise wrote:

I'm not a fan of manticores just because they have limited shots, the logic of "they won't live that long anyway" I disagree with, well placed with good cover rolls & a screen against assault your arty can live all game potential, especially if it's out of LoS. Convert those valks into vendettas, in a standard guard army they're killer AT.

I think most of the manticore thing comes from the fact that with the strength and capability of their rockets (Ordnance Barrage D3 Large Blasts at Strength 10 AP 4) rather than the fact they won't live that long (which can be true).

If you are shooting your manticore (s) at the right targets (which, with those stats, are likely hordes or the like) they hopefully should be dead or pretty close to it after 4 turns of barraging from that.

Ive had good luck with chimera PG vets. The trick is to keep em no further than the middle of the board.

I'm not a mech IG player, but we have a vet who is a dedicated treadhead and he runs a mean mech list.

Things he noticed about the changes from 5th to 6th.

Pros:
*No longer being stunlocked by glances is awesome.
*Things die faster, so tanklines are far more deadly. Since tanks don't get stunned as much, this is really awesome.
*Immobilized results simply split that vehicle from the unit, rather than destroying it.
*Chimeras are much faster now as are vendettas.
*vendettas are stupid good.
*being able to overwatch from transports is handy.

Cons:
*Infantry cannot score while being inside a vehicle.
*When said transport dies, the infantry inside are pretty much dead.
*Hullpoints means things like chimeras wreck faster, but vehicles like russes are largely unaffected.
*Lack of stunlocking means enemy vehicles fire more often as well.

He found that what this means was that while his vehicles wreck faster now, they can fire much more often than they could before. Even though he was losing chimeras quickly, his russes and other vehicles were putting out damage far more quickly than they ever did in 5th. He has to take more chimeras now to compensate for this, but the damage he can do is just scary. I would say a properly built mech list is just as, if not more scary, than they were back in 5th. But I dont play mech much, so take what I say with a huge grain of salt.

 undead flesh addict wrote:
I personally find that veterans in chimeras are nowhere near as good as they were in 5th. That being said, Leman Russ tanks are making a real comeback. I haven't tried out vendettas yet; they're still OP as hell, but their role has changed dramatically

I have been playing mech vets in chimeras to some good success. I like the hull points, with the good AV12, the he chimeras last well. I am in agree acne with you about the tanks, non ordnance seems to be the way to go. The manticore got even better wit full strength blast markers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 washout77 wrote:

 Red_Starrise wrote:

I'm not a fan of manticores just because they have limited shots, the logic of "they won't live that long anyway" I disagree with, well placed with good cover rolls & a screen against assault your arty can live all game potential, especially if it's out of LoS. Convert those valks into vendettas, in a standard guard army they're killer AT.

I think most of the manticore thing comes from the fact that with the strength and capability of their rockets (Ordnance Barrage D3 Large Blasts at Strength 10 AP 4) rather than the fact they won't live that long (which can be true).

If you are shooting your manticore (s) at the right targets (which, with those stats, are likely hordes or the like) they hopefully should be dead or pretty close to it after 4 turns of barraging from that.

Manticores in a back corner with an ADL with quad gun. I have been running two manticores, ADL with quad gun for a couple months now. Give the manticores camo netting, in the corner. Put the ADL around them, and put a penal legion squad back there to man the gun and act as a bubble to the manticores. Don't laugh, the stubborn part is great. A 3+ cover just makes those Sm players cry. Last game, a guy tried to off. The manticores in this set up by out flanking his Melta speeders. The quad gun took out one, and I rolled the 3+ on his two penetrating shots.

If youngest big guns never tier, place an objective near this set up. It works well.

 Cappizzano wrote:
Right now I have the following and would like to know where to go next.

Not a legal list. You can't take isolated PCS or HWS, and your veterans aren't part of a platoon.


Anyway, mech vets still works in 6th. The biggest change is that you have to disembark to score, so winning the game is now less about putting Chimera bunkers on objectives and more about tabling or near-tabling your opponent to the point that they can't threaten your token scoring presence.

Similar list to mine really - I think he might have meant CCS and not PCS (I made that mistake as well)

Mine's similar just 2 (or more, points dependant) vet squads which I try to run as smiliarly armed pairs plus a pair of Russes and a pair of Thunderers.

If your opponent has a problem with the FW Thunderers I just run them as "counts-as" Demolishers.

Still not 100% convinced about the value of adding sponson to a Russ though - the games I have played have been about 50/50 with and without and TBH, the sponsons I've been using (HB or MM) havent really made that much of a difference to how quick the target died.

But then again, may just be me playing badly!

I did mean CCS. I apologize for the mix up. What are everyone's thought's on throwing Marbo into the mix for the one time Demo Charge? Or even throwing some StormTroopers/Karskins into the mix? I have always played Space Marines in the past. I don't think I have played a guard Army since 2001.

 Cappizzano wrote:
I did mean CCS. I apologize for the mix up.

Then it's still not legal, since the HWS (I assume that's what you mean by "heavy support squad with 3x LC") can only be taken as part of an infantry platoon and you don't have one of those.

What are everyone's thought's on throwing Marbo into the mix for the one time Demo Charge?

Almost always take Marbo. Marbo will consistently do enough to justify his very cheap point cost, and will sometimes do amazing things.

Or even throwing some StormTroopers/Karskins into the mix?

Sometimes useful. They can do good things but you need to have a clear idea of what their purpose is and how it fits into your overall strategy, otherwise they're an expensive waste of points compared to veterans.

You can't place a single LC in a CCS?

 Cappizzano wrote:
You can't place a single LC in a CCS?

You can. I'm talking about this:

1 x Heavy Support Squad 3 x Lascannons.

I just have three because I bought a Battlebox so I have two more. I haven't had a chance to field it yet.

technically, you can have onne in the CCS and one in each of the squads but vets and heavy weaponds arent a good mix from what i have read but i could have read wrong.

Marbo is very hit or miss - pun certainly intended. I used him recently after a long time of not using him.
His demo charge spectacularly missed a dev squad in ruins, only for him to be assaulted by a BA priest who he killed in CC.
Marbo then died like a true guardsmen when he charged the dev squad and took a Krak missile to the face in over-watch.

All in all...he didn't do a lot, nor did he make his points back. If he had hit with that demo-charge, (which statistically he should have) it would have been a different story.

Still: he's a one-trick pony with the chance to do some great damage, but if he misses, he's spent. Genereally if you have 60ish points left over, it's worth putting him in, but don't design your list around him.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Cappizzano wrote:
You can't place a single LC in a CCS?

You can. I'm talking about this:

1 x Heavy Support Squad 3 x Lascannons.

That's just what he has, not a list

OK Marbo. Ramb-Marbo can be incredibly hit or miss. If he works, he will work really well and kill a lot of stuff. If he fails, he fails terribly and usually will bring himself and anything around him (friendly or not) down in a fiery explosion.

Then again, he's 65 points for another blast template, so if you got the points left over and can't find any ways to get more useful upgrades, you might as well. Oh, and he gets to deep-strike anywhere on the board (as long as he's at least 1" from an enemy) with no scatter.

Oh, and in kill-point games you are basically giving the other guy a free point (unless he decides not to gun him down next turn which is not hard at all for 99.9% of armies, he is only 1 normal guardsman after all).

If he survives somehow he can be really deadly in assault (And shooting with his AP2 pistol) with his ability to wound anything on a 2+ and thankfully he is I5 and 2W. Oh, and WS/BS5 (so he can shoot and hit well). Unfortunately, that's IF he survives. That's assuming he DOESN'T kill himself with his own demo-charge, and his T3 5+ Armor Save ass doesn't get gibbed next turn. He does get 2 Wounds, but at T3 with no Eternal Warrior he will die to most things. I should also mention that he does have Stealth, so +1 to cover saves so he gets a 6+ cover save at all times and that can be improved if you place him right. All about planning with this guy.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Aircav is one of the strongest lists in the game at this exact moment; Chimera-vets aren't as effective as they once were due to 6e's changes to vehicle damage. Tanks haven't lost their awesomeness, but changes to Ordnance mean you need to mix and match Leman Russ variants more now and they're better played on a stationary gunline supporting infantry platoons in most cases.

Hmmm... Don't Valks/Vettas have to enter the game from Reserve on the second (or later) turn of the game?

golan2072 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Aircav is one of the strongest lists in the game at this exact moment; Chimera-vets aren't as effective as they once were due to 6e's changes to vehicle damage. Tanks haven't lost their awesomeness, but changes to Ordnance mean you need to mix and match Leman Russ variants more now and they're better played on a stationary gunline supporting infantry platoons in most cases.

Hmmm... Don't Valks/Vettas have to enter the game from Reserve on the second (or later) turn of the game?

And once they do; it's like airborne poetry.

Of death.

And killing.

And murder.

So you need something on the ground in the first place to hold the line until the (air) cavalry arrives...

Im a guard player myself and i run a mix of Foot/Air Cav with Tank support

Tanks are still awesome - wont do a list without my Russ's

Air Support - seem to be more and more of a priority now with 6ed

 Chaoticredneck wrote:
Im a guard player myself and i run a mix of Foot/Air Cav with Tank support

Tanks are still awesome - wont do a list without my Russ's

Air Support - seem to be more and more of a priority now with 6ed

Tanks are pretty "Meh" now; definitely worse.

Flyers are incredibly valuable, and hugely useful on the board.

I'll be interested in following this thread.