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http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2012/12/26/40k-video-bat-rep-jy2s-chaos-vs-captn-dees-biker-marines-1750-bao-practice-game/

In this game Jy2 busts out his Typhus led Chaos against Capt’n Dees’ mean green Biker Marines!

Enjoy!

Really enjoyed this one fellas, loved the discussion afterwards personally. TY!

Just a little introduction to this game.

Dan (Captn Dees here on dakka) and I played for the first time at the Golden Throne GT (it was our Game #5). He brought essentially the same biker army, though at 1500, and I brought my necrons. He ended up doing great at the tournament, getting I believe 5th or 6th place. He only lost once in the tournament and that was agaisnt my necrons.

So this is essentially our rematch, though this time instead of bringing my crons, I was just trying out my Nurgle Chaos army (without Epidemius). I actually felt that this would be a bad matchup for my chaos army, especially since my army is so slow and his so fast. With the amount of plasmas and multi-meltas he had in his army, he could basically play the range game and shoot down my troops possibly faster than I could shoot down his. Then at the end, he could just move 48" with his eldar jetbikes to contest any of my objectives, whereas I would lack the means to reach his objectives.

Anyways, you could say that I was somewhat surprised at the results. All in all, a very entertaining game and we both had a blast. You should also stay tuned for the Post-game commentaries in the video-rep. It is both informative and quite funny.

For those who are curious, these are the lists:


1750 Marine Bikers (Dan)

I don't have his list, so this is going off memory:

Space Marine Captain - Bike, Relic Blade, 2+/3++
Farseer - Jetbike, Doom

5x Marine Bikers - 2x Plasmas, Sergeant w/Combi-plasma, 1x Attack Bike - Multi-melta
5x Marine Bikers - 2x Plasmas, Sergeant w/Combi-plasma, 1x Attack Bike - Multi-melta
5x Marine Bikers - 2x Plasmas, Sergeant w/Combi-plasma, 1x Attack Bike - Multi-melta
5x Marine Bikers - 2x Plasmas, Sergeant w/Combi-plasma, 1x Attack Bike - Multi-melta
5x Scouts - Snipers, 1x Missile Launcher, Sgt. Telion
3x Jetbike warriors

2x Attack Bikes - Multi-meltas
2x Attack Bikes - Multi-meltas
2x Attack Bikes - Multi-meltas

Aegis Defense Line - Quad-guns



1750 Nurgle Chaos Space Marines (My list)

Not my most competitive list, but this was just for fun.

Typhus

30x Zombie Cultists
7x Plague Marines - 2x Plasmas
6x Plague Marines - 2x Plasmas
6x Plague Marines - 2x Plasmas

5x Chaos Spawn - Mark of Nurgle
Heldrake

3x Obliterators - Mark of Nurgle, Veterans of the Long War
3x Obliterators - Mark of Nurgle, Veterans of the Long War

bye bye chaos, unless jy2 has some real awesome luck and some flabergasting moves to make...

I think that Chaos should be able to stand up against this list, especially with the Hell-Turkey - that Baleflamer is a biker-list's worst nightmare.

Also, by screening with the zombies, the Plague Marines will be able to get a 5+ cover plus their FnP against the Plasma/melta.

Will be interesting though...

No FNP against plasma or melta (double the toughness).

Jetbikes are insane for the relic, move 12" onto it in the movement phase, move 6" in the shooting phase then move another 6" (or 2d6) which ever is less in the assault phase.
Chaos shouldn't have been able to touch the bikers with the relic (apart from the helldrake).

 CaptainJay wrote:
No FNP against plasma or melta (double the toughness).

Jetbikes are insane for the relic, move 12" onto it in the movement phase, move 6" in the shooting phase then move another 6" (or 2d6) which ever is less in the assault phase.
Chaos shouldn't have been able to touch the bikers with the relic (apart from the helldrake).

Plague Marines are T5, so they would get their FnP.

 Heartless wrote:

 CaptainJay wrote:
No FNP against plasma or melta (double the toughness).

Jetbikes are insane for the relic, move 12" onto it in the movement phase, move 6" in the shooting phase then move another 6" (or 2d6) which ever is less in the assault phase.
Chaos shouldn't have been able to touch the bikers with the relic (apart from the helldrake).

Plague Marines are T5, so they would get their FnP.

My bad, I misread that as the zombies getting fnp.

 CaptainJay wrote:
No FNP against plasma or melta (double the toughness).

Jetbikes are insane for the relic, move 12" onto it in the movement phase, move 6" in the shooting phase then move another 6" (or 2d6) which ever is less in the assault phase.
Chaos shouldn't have been able to touch the bikers with the relic (apart from the helldrake).

Had my opponent screened out his Relic unit with another bike squad, I think he could have gotten away with it. Alas, he left an opening for my chaos spawn to assault, thus tying them down and buying some time for Typhus to make it into assault.

That was a fun game to watch, and some good discussion about the book and the game at the end!

Always a pleasure to have you over, Jim!

Personally I think "flat out" for tanks and "turboboost" for bikes are both their equivalents of "run". Exact same purpose, similar mechanic. But technically it's not. Annoying.

At any rate, this game seemed to go like most vs chaos games go: Mill around a bit until the dragon comes in to kill everything. In my experience, it's the dragons that do all the work while my army just survives and finishes things off.

I agree with everything discussed afterward, though. Regular marines definitely have the leg-up on chaos marines, chaos marines are fun and viable, but not tournament-nasty, and nurgle oblits are about the best heavy support points can buy. I do LIKE the maulerfiends, but they mucked up their rules. I LIKE the forgefiend, but they made it cost too damn much and the defiler is nearly just as easy to kill as before with 40-70 more points tacked onto it for no good reason. As for the oblits themselves - correct, why take any mark other than Nurgle? They should have been toughness 5 base, so that nurgle either made them T6 or did the daemon nurgle mark which just gave them shrouding. Slaanesh giving them initiative was a mistake, that should have done something different and Tzeentch....well, how much do you really want a better invul save?

 Reecius wrote:
That was a fun game to watch, and some good discussion about the book and the game at the end!

Always a pleasure to have you over, Jim!

Always a pleasure to come over buddy....when I get the chance.

Spellbound wrote:
Personally I think "flat out" for tanks and "turboboost" for bikes are both their equivalents of "run". Exact same purpose, similar mechanic. But technically it's not. Annoying.

At any rate, this game seemed to go like most vs chaos games go: Mill around a bit until the dragon comes in to kill everything. In my experience, it's the dragons that do all the work while my army just survives and finishes things off.

I agree with everything discussed afterward, though. Regular marines definitely have the leg-up on chaos marines, chaos marines are fun and viable, but not tournament-nasty, and nurgle oblits are about the best heavy support points can buy. I do LIKE the maulerfiends, but they mucked up their rules. I LIKE the forgefiend, but they made it cost too damn much and the defiler is nearly just as easy to kill as before with 40-70 more points tacked onto it for no good reason. As for the oblits themselves - correct, why take any mark other than Nurgle? They should have been toughness 5 base, so that nurgle either made them T6 or did the daemon nurgle mark which just gave them shrouding. Slaanesh giving them initiative was a mistake, that should have done something different and Tzeentch....well, how much do you really want a better invul save?

Ironically, my dragon didn't really do all that much. It helped to wipe out an already depleted biker unit but we ended the game before it could do more.

The main workhorses in this game were the oblits and Typhus actually. Oblits shot down a lot of bikers and Typhus not only killed the 2 HQ's, but he broke 2 biker squads (who then fled off the board thanks to shooting the following turn) and wiped out a 3rd biker squad. Ironically, it was the slower, static units and the shooting that won me the game.

When looking at the troops, I don't just compare them directly. ATSKNF marines are awesome. However, chaos has 13pt troops, or T5 CSM troops for only 16pts! Moreover, they've got the gosh-darn-cheap-as-chips cultists, whereas vanilla marines would have to ally in IG in order to get troops as cheap as that. What CSM lacks in special rules, they can make up for in increased bodies and firepower. In short, CSM troops are good in their own way and you have to use the rest of the army to shore up their weaknesses (i.e. fearless IC's, heldrakes to kill enemy infantry, tarpitting "anti-assault" units like maulerfiends, zombies, chaos spawn, etc.).

As for Slaanesh oblits, they're slightly harder to sweep in assault or kill with Jaws.

Funny you should mention sweeping in assault - Why take fearless away from the oblits AND drop them to leadership 8? Without ATSKNF, I always lose one and fail a morale check. Even regrouping, snap fire only and not being able to charge sucks.

As for allied IG, I wonder sometimes why I don't just use IG. The cultists in the initial 10 cost 5 points each, and pay a point for their autogun. The other cultists are 5 points with autoguns. An imperial guardsman is 5 points with a 5+ save instead of 6+ and they come with frag grenades!

Only difference is a chaos lord can't join IG squads to make the fearless and badass in close combat, so I guess it's a "this is what you get, deal with it" situation. But point for point IG are much better than cultists.

Great battle report as usual and after having watching this I would have to agree that Typhus was an all-star this game. Being able to pass both of your force weapon psychic checks on 3d6 to knock out two HQs was extremely fortunate for you. Your list was very balanced and not over the top with anything. Even if he had line of sight on the Heldrake with the quad gun I dont think he would have been able to do much to it maybe a few HPs removed which you could have regenerated on your turn. The Heldrake really didn't do a whole lot besides mopping up a few leftovers but if you would have had a few more turns with it he probably could have done some real damage. His list didnt really have a solid answer for the Heldrake. Good game though and I hope to see another battle report with this list to see how it fars against other things.

Just want to say I happened upon the Frontline Gaming site as a result of your interview on the 11th Company. Loving the work; particularly the Battle Reports.

Keep it up.

I do enjoy the Batreps put up and find them informative, really liked the discussion at the end of this one.

I would agree that there really isnt another choice for chaos if your wanting to try make a competitive list, it has to be nurgle.

Im using 2 heldrakes at the moment but might be an idea to get some spawn to be able to get over and tie up units.

Spellbound wrote:
Funny you should mention sweeping in assault - Why take fearless away from the oblits AND drop them to leadership 8? Without ATSKNF, I always lose one and fail a morale check. Even regrouping, snap fire only and not being able to charge sucks.

As for allied IG, I wonder sometimes why I don't just use IG. The cultists in the initial 10 cost 5 points each, and pay a point for their autogun. The other cultists are 5 points with autoguns. An imperial guardsman is 5 points with a 5+ save instead of 6+ and they come with frag grenades!

Only difference is a chaos lord can't join IG squads to make the fearless and badass in close combat, so I guess it's a "this is what you get, deal with it" situation. But point for point IG are much better than cultists.

Honestly, I don't mind if my opponent targets the oblits with their shooting. Those guys can absorb a lot of firepower! And if they try to assault them, they usually have to get through Typhus and his zombies first. But that's just my list, which I designed to have an "anti-assault" unit to protect my shooty units.

I agree that IG are superior. However, you also need to pay for the cost of the additional HQ as well. But the real gem for me isn't the cultists, but the zombies. I rely on them for the rest of my army to work, though I understand not everyone will run zombies and Typhus. Nonetheless, the very cheap cultists + cheap CSM as well makes chaos troops viable even without the need for cult troops. In this case, you may not get the extras like ATSKNF or combat/chapter tactics as their Imperial brethen do, but you can make up for it through sheer numbers.

 y0disisray wrote:
Great battle report as usual and after having watching this I would have to agree that Typhus was an all-star this game. Being able to pass both of your force weapon psychic checks on 3d6 to knock out two HQs was extremely fortunate for you. Your list was very balanced and not over the top with anything. Even if he had line of sight on the Heldrake with the quad gun I dont think he would have been able to do much to it maybe a few HPs removed which you could have regenerated on your turn. The Heldrake really didn't do a whole lot besides mopping up a few leftovers but if you would have had a few more turns with it he probably could have done some real damage. His list didnt really have a solid answer for the Heldrake. Good game though and I hope to see another battle report with this list to see how it fars against other things.

Typhus is actually quite good. The only thing which makes him appear bad is that in many of my previous games, it's been Chaos vs Tyranids, whether I was playing Chaos or bugs. Monstrous creatures have a tendency to smash him to a pulp, but against normal infantry, Typhus is just such a beast.

Yeah, with all my lists, I always try to go for balance. I feel that all my armies are strong TAC lists, though some armies are better TAC's than others.

Quad-guns on average won't really do too much to my heldrake...but why give him the satisfaction to even use it at all. If my dragon could come in and still have targets to go after, all the while denying him the use of his AA defense, why not do it? I enjoy punishing my opponents for deployment errors. He definitely could have done more damage. Had we continued the game, I would have put him in Hover mode and roast the scouts behind the Aegis.

I actually played a game on the same day between my 1750 chaos army (the same one) against an 1850 Farsight Tau army. I will probably get that report up sometime in the future. Aside from that, you will be seeing more of my Nurgle-CSM's in the future.

I am really happy to hear you all enjoy the reports!