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 Still Standing wrote:
It was a ground attack (air to ground) missile, not a surface to air missile if you're talking about the one John slapped away whilst "training".

Sorry, you're right I put that fack to bront.

 Kaldor wrote:
[They also have reaction speeds up to three times faster than Marines, who have no upgrades to their reflexes at all.

lol

"Considering the mental and
physical strain of such bewildering manoeuvres, the fact that
few Land Speeders are lost to pilot error can be solely
attributed to the superhuman reactions and stamina of the
Space Marines who crew them."
- Codex: Space Marines, 5e, page 74

 Kaldor wrote:

ScreamPaste wrote:
Spartan powered armour has nothing on Astartes armour by feats, nor does the superhuman inside it compare, honestly.

Astartes have superior feats of reaction and striking speed, lengthier and more intense training ,greater feats of endurance and durability, and their strength is undeniably greater.

*sigh*

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

What Astartes implant enhances reaction time and reflexes? None. When has an Astartes fallen from orbit and walked away from it? Never. When has an Astartes bitch-slapped an incoming surface-to-air missile out of the air and survived? Never.

Like I know, could be the extensive genetherapy, or the centuries of training in a universe that runs on Charles Atlas Superpower (There are unaugmented humans in 40k with superhuman feats), or it could be the neurological changes made to Astartes, regardless they display it with consistency.

Also, lol @ the falling thing being used as an impressive feat. Chief would hit terminal velocity and his accelleration would stop. Normal humans have survived falls at terminal velocity. Unharmed even, rare as that is.

Space Marines have an implant that increases their perception/senses, as well as enhances their musculature.

Wanna know what both of those combined equal? Superhuman reaction-time, lol.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Space Marines have an implant that increases their perception/senses, as well as enhances their musculature.

Wanna know what both of those combined equal? Superhuman reaction-time, lol.

Really? Look, being able to hear better doesn't mean you can respond to it any quicker. The signal still has to hit the eye, travel to the un-augmented brain via un-augmented nerves, be interpreted by the un-augmented brain, a suitable response formed, that response transmitted by the un-augmented nerves to the relevant augmented muscles where it can be carried out.

This goes for both Spartans and Astartes, except Spartans do it 300% quicker thanks to their particular implants and upgrades. Because their nerves and brain are augmented, unlike the Astartes.

 Kaldor wrote:
Really? Look, being able to hear better doesn't mean you can respond to it any quicker. The signal still has to hit the eye, travel to the un-augmented brain via un-augmented nerves, be interpreted by the un-augmented brain, a suitable response formed, that response transmitted by the un-augmented nerves to the relevant augmented muscles where it can be carried out.

This goes for both Spartans and Astartes, except Spartans do it 300% quicker thanks to their particular implants and upgrades. Because their nerves and brain are augmented, unlike the Astartes.

You seem to be under the impression that I haven't invalidated your claims with a quote from a codex.

You must have missed my post near the top of the page.

And frankly, going by EU/book feats, Space Marines are better, in terms of reaction-time.

Honestly man that quote means little. "Super human reflexes" tells us nothing, and no change listed for SM seems to effect reaction time.

Spartans IIRC have a rebuilt nervous system and a computer in the brain.The are the other end of SM( One bio-engineered the other mostly cybernetic) , but both are more or less the same thing.

Spartans have no magic to call upon, but otherwise they are more or less even,

On multiple occasions, Space Marines are shown to parry or dodge bullets. They are ridiculously fast. On of the early Horus Heresy novels has a great quote about what makes Astartes so frightening to normal humans; it's not their huge size, strength or brutality, but just how ridiculously fast something that large can move. I'll see if I can dig it up.

 Hunterindarkness wrote:
Honestly man that quote means little. "Super human reflexes" tells us nothing, and no change listed for SM seems to effect reaction time.

Spartans IIRC have a rebuilt nervous system and a computer in the brain.The are the other end of SM, but both are more or less the same thing.

Spartans have no magic to call upon, but otherwise they are more or less even,

It tells us they have enhanced reflexes.

Seriously?

"Such feats require not only a
robust and responsive vehicle - which the Land Speeder
undoubtedly is - but also inhuman nerves and reactions on
the part of the pilot, explaining perhaps why Land Speeders
have for so long remained scarce outside of Space Marine
Chapters, and are chiefly absent in other wings of the
Imperium's military."
- Blood Angels, 5e, page 33


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Omegus wrote:
On multiple occasions, Space Marines are shown to parry or dodge bullets. They are ridiculously fast. On of the early Horus Heresy novels has a great quote about what makes Astartes so frightening to normal humans; it's not their huge size, strength or brutality, but just how ridiculously fast something that large can move. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Right.

Lucius, Argel Tal, that Rune Priest who I can't remember, etc.

Really, 40k as a setting is the type that even grants superhuman capabilities to particularly badass humans, like Commissar Yarrick, Eisenhorn, or Harker, or whoever. And people doubt the reaction-time of the Space Marines, lol?

Yeah as I said, it tells us nothing. As you have said named people in 40k are often over the top super human, even humans. Saying they have "inhuman nerves and reactions on
the part of the pilot" really does say nothing. We would say the same thing about any very skilled person better then the norm at something.

Nothing says they enhance reflexes. We have a massive list of changes and what each and every one does. Reflex enhancement is not among them that I recall.

 Hunterindarkness wrote:
Yeah as I said, it tells us nothing. As you have said named people in 40k are often over the top super human, even humans. Saying they have "inhuman nerves and reactions on
the part of the pilot" really does say nothing. We would say the same thing about any very skilled person better then the norm at something.

Nothing says they enhance reflexes. We have a massive list of changes and what each and every one does. Reflex enhancement is not among them that I recall.

All right, I'll hold your hand for the moment, and help you comprehend what is written.

In the Blood Angels quote in particular, the reaction-time of the pilots is referred to as inhuman. Now, while you could dismiss this as hyperbole, what follows is important: The direct statement that Land Speeders are scarcely piloted by non-Astartes, and completely absent in other wings of the military. Thus attributing that inhuman reaction-time to Space Marines in general, rather than personal prowess of its pilots.

So what you are saying is that they are piloted by non-Space Marines. This says that it is NOT the Marine's enhanced reflexes that allows them to pilot them. The Euro Fighter (current Air Superiority Jet used by some of the larger countries in Europe) requires inhuman reflexes and skills to keep it in the air too. Thus why we have computers to assist.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

All right, I'll hold your hand for the moment, and help you comprehend what is written.

In the Blood Angels quote in particular, the reaction-time of the pilots is referred to as inhuman. Now, while you could dismiss this as hyperbole, what follows is important: The direct statement that Land Speeders are scarcely piloted by non-Astartes, and completely absent in other wings of the military. Thus attributing that inhuman reaction-time to Space Marines in general, rather than personal prowess of its pilots.

Uh huh...if you say so man. But then 40k says the same thing about more or less everyone "NO you can't use that cheese grater! Only an Astarte can use it !No mere mortals could never use such a device, only the most holy ( and every expanding in size and might) SM can do that!"

Look we have a full list of every single change done to the SM, and what every single change does. Not a single one alters reaction. As whole all of them along with training may do that, like most highly trained folks but nothing puts them out of the realm of what a normal human could do reaction wise if very skilled and highly trained. They are stronger and tougher but nothing listed boots reflexes.

If you know of the organ that gives them better reflexes please list it. Otherwise its is pure SM hyperbole.

 Omegus wrote:
On multiple occasions, Space Marines are shown to parry or dodge bullets. They are ridiculously fast. On of the early Horus Heresy novels has a great quote about what makes Astartes so frightening to normal humans; it's not their huge size, strength or brutality, but just how ridiculously fast something that large can move. I'll see if I can dig it up.

The caveat of course being that anything an Astartes can do, a Spartan can do faster. Given that, of the two of them, only the Spartan has an enhanced brain and nervous system.

On this thread only you Kaldor and TheCaptain are defending SPARTANS, witch is ok giving that everyone has their own opinion. But your argumentation thus far has been nothing more than fanboyism in favor of SPARTANS, you rejected everything saying "it's wrong" without giving any explanation why and keep pushing that it's because "they are the same" witch clearly they are not.

Here, I can discredit you ass well like you did that chap:

Chief is the best SPARTAN that ever lived, just like Draigo is the best Grey Knight that ever lived. Chief ended Flood threat, the Covenant threat, destroyed at lest two Halo's and the Arc and it seems that he will end Fourrunner threat as well. While I do believe there are some other SPARTANS that are better than Chief in some other area or overall... noone get's even close to him when it comes to achievements and the results in the end. If we take all of this into account Chief is really the best SPARTAN II that ever lived.
Strike one.

Astartes are 7 feet tell without Power Armor, 8 feet tall with Power Armor and 10 feet tall with Terminator Armor. So that chap was right and you were wrong.
Strike two.

Spartans, even if enhanced a little, are still normal Humans when compared to everyone else. SPARTAN is not so different in appearance then normal UNSC marine and without armor they look just like ordinary one. Astartes on the other hand are much taller and at least twice as wider than normal Humans, and that's without their armor ( all those organs and bones enchantments tend to wide person a little ). And because SPARTANS are in appearance no different from other Humans that means that ordinary Marines are really twice as wide as SPARTANS when not in their armor.
Strike three.

And if we add your more fan than fact posts all over this thread you didn't just lose credibility for this thread but for this forum as well.

More realistic matching would be scout vs SPARTAN II or SPARTAN II vs. Crysis nanosuit, Astartes are just to elite warriors even for SPARTANS giving the universe they are in.
Like 99% of people here said: Marine crush SPARTAN like fly and goes on.

Or are you still saying that these guys:


can beat these guys:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Chief is the best SPARTAN that ever lived

Really? Best at what? Was he the fastest? Strongest? Smartest?

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
there are some other SPARTANS that are better than Chief

You seem a little confused.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Astartes are 7 feet tell without Power Armor, 8 feet tall with Power Armor and 10 feet tall with Terminator Armor. So that chap was right and you were wrong

Are you saying that Power Armour has 12" high heels? And that Terminator Armour has 24" heels.

No. Astartes are 7" tall. The armour, even terminator armour, adds a couple of inches.

Spartans, even if enhanced a little, are still normal Humans when compared to everyone else. SPARTAN is not so different in appearance then normal UNSC marine and without armor they look just like ordinary one. Astartes on the other hand are much taller and at least twice as wider than normal Humans, and that's without their armor ( all those organs and bones enchantments tend to wide person a little ). And because SPARTANS are in appearance no different from other Humans that means that ordinary Marines are really twice as wide as SPARTANS when not in their armor.
Strike three.

Nope. They are both ~7 feet tall. There are no sources stating Astartes are twice as wide as a human. That's ridiculous. And only an idiot would think the heavily muscled 7 foot tall superman (The Spartan, not the Astartes) looks any more similar to a regular human than an Astartes does. You're not an idiot, are you?

The reason I dismissed others, and yourself, so out-of-hand is because you provide no sources yet state your opinion as if it were fact. If you want anyone in life to take you seriously, then when you make a point you need to back it up. If you want to insist that Terminator armour adds 24" to someones height, you need to show where that extra height comes from. If you want to insist a Marine has at least a 70" waist, you need to back it up. If you want to insist that Spartans are less than six feet tall, you gotta prove it. Until then you're just blowing hot air to back up your favourite horse in the race.

A Spartan maintains the same proportions of a normal human. Just look at a picture. Unless you had a normal human nearby for reference you would never know they weren't a normal human in armor.

A Space Marine leaves no doubt they are not normal because of the altered proportions.

Careful Kaldor, your Fanboyisim is showing

 Grey Templar wrote:
A Spartan maintains the same proportions of a normal human. Just look at a picture. Unless you had a normal human nearby for reference you would never know they weren't a normal human in armor.

A Space Marine leaves no doubt they are not normal because of the altered proportions

Well then, it should be easy to provide an example. I'll wait right here.

Or we could accept that they are both super-muscled, and both have feats of exceptional strength attributed to them. Spartans are noted as having significantly more muscle mass than un-augmented humans. I don't understand people's fascination with insisting Astartes are stronger. Sure, they've got some more organs to fit in so by necessity they'll have more volume inside their chest, but why insist they so much more muscle? Even if they did, given the similar feats they perform that would only indicate that Astartes muscle is less efficient. If they are both capable of X, but one has less muscle, the who has the most efficient muscle? But I don't think they do have significantly less muscle.

 Still Standing wrote:
So what you are saying is that they are piloted by non-Space Marines. This says that it is NOT the Marine's enhanced reflexes that allows them to pilot them. The Euro Fighter (current Air Superiority Jet used by some of the larger countries in Europe) requires inhuman reflexes and skills to keep it in the air too. Thus why we have computers to assist.

No, actually it explicitly notes that it is very rare for a human being to pilot one, and completely unheard of in a military sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hunterindarkness wrote:
Uh huh...if you say so man. But then 40k says the same thing about more or less everyone "NO you can't use that cheese grater! Only an Astarte can use it !No mere mortals could never use such a device, only the most holy ( and every expanding in size and might) SM can do that!"

Look we have a full list of every single change done to the SM, and what every single change does. Not a single one alters reaction. As whole all of them along with training may do that, like most highly trained folks but nothing puts them out of the realm of what a normal human could do reaction wise if very skilled and highly trained. They are stronger and tougher but nothing listed boots reflexes.

If you know of the organ that gives them better reflexes please list it. Otherwise its is pure SM hyperbole.

An enhanced musculature would by definition enhance the speed at which your muscles move, and Astartes are noted many times to have eyesight both capable of seeing in low-light environments (Not really relevant in this instance) and preternaturally sharp. Both combined equate to enhanced reaction-time. And no, I am too lazy to look up the names of specific organs.

It's funny, you people are so caught up on the list of Space Marine implants that you're unwilling to so much as glance at their actual capabilities.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kaldor wrote:
The caveat of course being that anything an Astartes can do, a Spartan can do faster. Given that, of the two of them, only the Spartan has an enhanced brain and nervous system.

This is a biased and flawed form of logic. If a "normal human" is capable of, saw, dodging an actual laser after it is fired, or splitting a glacier with a punch (I am talking about Karate Kid from DC comics, obviousleh), then should we assume the enhanced Spartans or Marines can do better?

If a Space Marine has the superior feats of reaction-time (And make no mistake he does, you don't want to get into a feat war with me), then he has the superior feats of reaction-time. Period.

people know the difference in weapon strengths between the 40k and halo verse right? Like the basic laspistol being able to exert more force than the gauss cannon on the back of a warthog .

"Eisenhorn Omnibus, page 483:
“I fired my laspistol, powering shot after shot at him, driving him backwards. His gold-chest battle suit, which gave his shrivelled frame the bulk and frame and proportions of a Space Marine, absorbed or deflected the impacts, but the sheer force knocked him back several paces.”

A) The man in the suit is a withered old Witch Hunter, who whilst receiving the benefit of the suits augmented strength, is relatively perhaps not the best candidate to wear Astartes gear in comparison to half a ton of naked Space Marine. Kind of obvious, but you need it spelled out for you.

B) Assuming that the old man weighs somewhere in the average 100kg range – for someone capable of wearing a two and a half meter tall suit without collapsing under their own weight – then coupled with the added tonnage of the suit itself, the Las-Pistol is capable of physically forcing (as the quote implies) 1.1 tons of mass at a distance of three meters; assuming of course that we’re talking about Space Marine sized paces.

Which means that a mass-less, photon based beam form the standard Imperial sidearm is capable of exerting 3300 newtons of force; in comparison a .50 caliber sniper rifle round generates only 20.59 newtons, it takes 700 newtons to lift a man off his feet and throw him, and the Gauss Cannon (the heaviest infantry operated anti-vehicle projectile weapon in the UNSC) is only responsible for less than a thousand newtons.

C) Last, and most importantly, he survived. Said beams, regardless of their imparted force and energy, were being deflected harmlessly off his suit; which when you think about the Las-Pistols ability to flash boil meter long Fish submerged in cold sea water, is incredibly impressive. "
-L-W

Power armour isn't that heavy lol.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
On this thread only you Kaldor and TheCaptain are defending SPARTANS, witch is ok giving that everyone has their own opinion. But your argumentation thus far has been nothing more than fanboyism in favor of SPARTANS, you rejected everything saying "it's wrong" without giving any explanation why and keep pushing that it's because "they are the same" witch clearly they are not.

No no. There's no defending an argument like this. Kaldor has tried to use logic, but this is a 40k forum, so any time someone says "Space Marine X will lose to External Fiction Y" It will unleash a torrent of rampant fanboyism ready to ignore any supporting claims and just say "No, Space Marines are Bigger!"

A discussion like this is impossible to have properly, because no one, save Kaldor, has demonstrated adequate knowledge of Spartans and the program, comparable to the accumulated 40k knowledge.

What all of you neglect is the factors of the fight itself. A spartan is trained in guerrilla warfare, and well versed in it. A spartan is adaptable to new foes. A spartan is trained to use his environment, as well as his opponent's weaknesses, against said opponent.

A codex compliant Space Marine will not be adaptable (See: First Tyrannic War). Save for a few, Space Marines will be taken off guard by Spartan guerrilla tactics.

Spartans are superior soldiers to men because they are all tactical geniuses, capable of formulating several battle strategies in seconds. Their augmentations merely let them put said strategies into action.

Space Marines have strength and endurance; no doubt.

But Spartans have speed, tactics, and reflexes.

The clear cut conclusion is that in a stand-up fistfight, the Space Marine would likely crush a Spartan. In a free for all in actual terrain, there would be a fight on our hands. Likely, tactics would win out for the Spartan, because knowledge is power.

If you can make sweeping claims that "Space Marine/Spartan would win! No question!" You are a fanboy and your input is detrimental to this discussion. If you don't know similar amounts about both mythologies, you are ignorant to the subject, and your input is detrimental to this discussion.

If you say "Well, lets just compare John and Mephiston, since they are the best!" you don't understand the concept of outliers, and why they aren't useful in comparisions. You don't understand fallacy, and your input is detrimental to this discussion.


Just my 2 (or 3) cents.
I know this is Dakka, but try to show a little less bias. Plenty of proper arguments for Space Marines have been put down, once you sift through some of the ridiculousness. I hope I demonstrated a relatively objective look at actual Spartan II capabilities that y'all can understand.
-TheCaptain

 Kaldor wrote:

ScreamPaste wrote:
Spartan powered armour has nothing on Astartes armour by feats, nor does the superhuman inside it compare, honestly.

Astartes have superior feats of reaction and striking speed, lengthier and more intense training ,greater feats of endurance and durability, and their strength is undeniably greater.

*sigh*

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

What Astartes implant enhances reaction time and reflexes? None. When has an Astartes fallen from orbit and walked away from it? Never. When has an Astartes bitch-slapped an incoming surface-to-air missile out of the air and survived? Never.

Stop saying they fell from orbit and survived. The only reason they can feasibly do that is by using debris and such to help with descent and because theyre armour locks.

the power armor and space marine would have to weight several tons, the ability to crush humans/gaunts flat by walking into them/rolling on the ground would require a lot of weight. The HH novel when horus is injured and the spess mahrens walk Horus through a croweded launchbay crushing/flattening all the people in the way, and in the 4th ed SM codex when Uriel ventris rolls crushing several hormagaunts beneath his weight. pg.2

 Ninjacommando wrote:
the power armor and space marine would have to weight several tons, the ability to crush humans/gaunts flat by walking into them/rolling on the ground would require a lot of weight. The HH novel when horus is injured and the spess mahrens walk Horus through a croweded launchbay crushing/flattening all the people in the way, and in the 4th ed SM codex when Uriel ventris rolls crushing several hormagaunts beneath his weight. pg.2

You don't need to be several tons to crush something. Space Marines are around somewhere in the 400-600 lb range with armor.

Several hundred pounds with force behind it will easily crush something mansized.

With those marines they were almost certaintly deliberatly stomping on people, plus if several hundred pounds are concentrated on the size of a marines boot its going to cause damage.

You seem to be under the impression that crushing/flattening means its like they got hit by a steamroller. It doesn't necessarily mean they are human shaped pancakes.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
On this thread only you Kaldor and TheCaptain are defending SPARTANS, witch is ok giving that everyone has their own opinion. But your argumentation thus far has been nothing more than fanboyism in favor of SPARTANS, you rejected everything saying "it's wrong" without giving any explanation why and keep pushing that it's because "they are the same" witch clearly they are not.

No no. There's no defending an argument like this. Kaldor has tried to use logic, but this is a 40k forum, so any time someone says "Space Marine X will lose to External Fiction Y" It will unleash a torrent of rampant fanboyism ready to ignore any supporting claims and just say "No, Space Marines are Bigger!"

A discussion like this is impossible to have properly, because no one, save Kaldor, has demonstrated adequate knowledge of Spartans and the program, comparable to the accumulated 40k knowledge.

What all of you neglect is the factors of the fight itself. A spartan is trained in guerrilla warfare, and well versed in it. A spartan is adaptable to new foes. A spartan is trained to use his environment, as well as his opponent's weaknesses, against said opponent.

A codex compliant Space Marine will not be adaptable (See: First Tyrannic War). Save for a few, Space Marines will be taken off guard by Spartan guerrilla tactics.

Spartans are superior soldiers to men because they are all tactical geniuses, capable of formulating several battle strategies in seconds. Their augmentations merely let them put said strategies into action.

Space Marines have strength and endurance; no doubt.

But Spartans have speed, tactics, and reflexes.

The clear cut conclusion is that in a stand-up fistfight, the Space Marine would likely crush a Spartan. In a free for all in actual terrain, there would be a fight on our hands. Likely, tactics would win out for the Spartan, because knowledge is power.

If you can make sweeping claims that "Space Marine/Spartan would win! No question!" You are a fanboy and your input is detrimental to this discussion. If you don't know similar amounts about both mythologies, you are ignorant to the subject, and your input is detrimental to this discussion.

If you say "Well, lets just compare John and Mephiston, since they are the best!" you don't understand the concept of outliers, and why they aren't useful in comparisions. You don't understand fallacy, and your input is detrimental to this discussion.


Just my 2 (or 3) cents.
I know this is Dakka, but try to show a little less bias. Plenty of proper arguments for Space Marines have been put down, once you sift through some of the ridiculousness. I hope I demonstrated a relatively objective look at actual Spartan II capabilities that y'all can understand.
-TheCaptain

Thank you for that well informed post. Which brings us back to the original situation. If they were in a small bare room, no armour, no weapons.

 Ninjacommando wrote:
the power armor and space marine would have to weight several tons, the ability to crush humans/gaunts flat by walking into them/rolling on the ground would require a lot of weight. The HH novel when horus is injured and the spess mahrens walk Horus through a croweded launchbay crushing/flattening all the people in the way, and in the 4th ed SM codex when Uriel ventris rolls crushing several hormagaunts beneath his weight. pg.2

A Space Marine, by Deathwatch numbers, is 700 pounds unarmoured. Very heavy for even their own prodigious height. Their armour is 180 kilograms, aka about 400 pounds. So a Space Marine would weight about half a ton, fully armoured.

Numbers for human power armour are even lower. 65 kilograms. 140 pounds.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Ninjacommando wrote:
the power armor and space marine would have to weight several tons, the ability to crush humans/gaunts flat by walking into them/rolling on the ground would require a lot of weight. The HH novel when horus is injured and the spess mahrens walk Horus through a croweded launchbay crushing/flattening all the people in the way, and in the 4th ed SM codex when Uriel ventris rolls crushing several hormagaunts beneath his weight. pg.2

A Space Marine, by Deathwatch numbers, is 700 pounds unarmoured. Very heavy for even their own prodigious height. Their armour is 180 kilograms, aka about 400 pounds. So a Space Marine would weight about half a ton, fully armoured.

Numbers for human power armour are even lower. 65 kilograms. 140 pounds.

SM power armor is not the same as "standard human power armor. SM armor is closer to human heavy Power armor in size and design(150 kg without militarily power pack/jump pack). We know from the HH you can get and make SM power armor to fit humans. It simply is not done inside the IoM. Other then tradition there is no reason humans can not have SM style and quality of armor.

True, but it would require some major refitting. Marine armor is designed to hook up with the Black Carapace, which a human will not have.

It will also be designed to fit the proportions of a marine, not a human. Which would make altering a Marine's PA to fit a human very impractical.

yes but what i'm saying the with the quote from the book said "His gold-chest battle suit, which gave his shrivelled frame the bulk and frame and proportions of a Space Marine" bulk is weight. so even if the guy who did the calc was off by the weight the recalc still puts the laspistol above 1k newtons which is still higher than the gauss cannon in halo.

and where did the 7' 2" come from? every freaking BL books pretty much says 2.5-3 meters in height.

"Almost three metres tall, Artemius towered over the Cordassan men." - Tales from the Dark Millenium, Pg. 18 Around 9 feet 6 inches tall.

“For such a giant, nearly three metres tall and two across, he moved with an easy, contained fluidity.” - Battle of the Fang, Pg. 8
Around 9 feet 6 inches tall. 6 feet wide.

“Where Sargaul reached almost two hundred and fifty centimetres tall in bare feet, Barsabbas was short for a Traitor Marine, topping out at two metres thirty in plated height.” - Blood Gorgons, p.14-15
A short Marine is around 7.5 feet tall. The other Marine is 250 centimeters, which is over 8 feet tall.