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 lord_blackfang wrote:

overtyrant wrote:

And it embarrasses me that people cant have some faith and patience. Instead of nay saying all the time , wait and see what they release during the KS and if/when it fails then you can be like 'well they failed because....'.

Anyone can be a smartass after the fact. You know that investors will research the viability of a business before they put money in it, not after it has already crashed and burned, right?

And the whole point of a KS is?

Starting a miniature wargame KS without any miniatures to feature is... a bit odd, to say the least.

It's more in keeping with what Kickstarter is meant to be. We've been a little bit spoiled with the projects so far. Kickstarter jump up and down about how they are not a store, that they're about supporting creative ideas and developing them and, crucially, that there is risk: You may be investing in something that does not exist yet and potentially could come out not how you wanted. That's the trade off for supporting a creative idea that otherwise could never be.

I get that it makes people reluctant to put money into it, of course it will and it should! But it's only odd because so many mini companies have basically used it as a pre-ordering system.

As for business models: Oh absolutely. I'm waiting for the subscription model ones, and the freemium. It can only be a matter of time.

Hi All - just joined up as you will see - but long time lurker. Thought I'd just say a few words about my new project and comment on some of the observations that have been made here. Watched with interest and paid attention to I may add!

Yes I have designed a lot of games over the years - in greater part for Games Workshop - but bear in mind I had numerous jobs and roles during my 28 years with the company. For a large part of that time I was either relatively junior (so I worked on what I was told to work on!) or I was too senior (and only worked on side-projects and took no part in the main work of the studio). In between, when I could have worked on anything and pretty much determined what GW made, that was a very short period during which I ran the studio as well as being part of the management team - roughly 1992-1998. Even at the end of that period decisions about what we made were starting to be heavily influcenced by the sales and financial side of the business (rather than the creative side in the studio). Of course, when I was studio manager I also had the studio to manage - so writing games, doing all the support personally, organising all the promotion for a game and doing everything myself wasn't really practical. I had other things to do - like developing the plastic ranges, launching the 'big box' format for games (with plastics for the first time), launching the army book and codex formats (new back then) and such dull stuff as managing production, print, packaging, buying, the licensing team, Warhammer Records (part of the studio!) and even more tedious stuff such as admin, recruitment and so forth. I still managed to design a few games in my spare moments - editions of Warhammer and 40K as well as Necromunda spring to mind.

So - the point I'm trying to make here is you shouldn't read into the fact that I've worked on lots of projects is any indication that GoA is some here today gone tomorrow affair. Yes I have undertaken some historical projects for Warlord - I thought I might as well - I was unable to work on what GW considered 'competing' projects for a period after I left. That was a contractual issue I couldn't do anything about. Historical proejcts were not considered to be competing. Lucky for the Perrys I say!

I see GoA as practically my last chance to do something I actually own - I don't own 40K although I invented it - and I receive no royalties or payments on account of any of the things I created for GW - from games such as WH and 40K to 'IP' such as the Imperium, Space Marines, and so on. With GoA I intend to retain the copyrights as would the author of any work of fiction - for example - and from that I hope to manage an income that will support myself and my wife over the next twenty years (and I'm 54 this year so let's not tempt fate!). I've been designing games and creating worlds since I worked with my friend Richard Halliwell to create the Reaper game in 1977. Beyond the Gates of Antares will be the first thing I've done that I actually own. So - no - I don't intend to give up on it! Sure we might expand the universe with other games - all of which will roll in to the real-time online metagame - but this one is for keeps.

So - committment - yes 100% - and we know there is a lot of hard work ahead and sometimes things won't go as quickly or as well as we'd hope. It is a dream. But it's not a bad dream though I say it myself. With the help of our backers it's a dream I know we make make happen. Please take a look at our website here at Dark Space Corp http://www.darkspacecorp.com/ and back our kickstarter if you can - we're doing really well so far but the more we can raise the more quickly we can move forward with plastics, full online metagame development, extra sculpting and the unending process of support and innovation.

Thanks for reading this far!

Nice to hear from you and good luck with your KS

I've certainly enjoyed a lot of the stuff you've done over time

Thanks for posting Rick. I've been gaming (on and off) since the late 80's and your work has given me some of my best experiences - frankly anyone fantasy wargaming today owes you a living! I think the criticisms about the amount of rulesets you've worked are absurd - no one carps when Pratchett keeps writing books (or a train driver keep driving trains, and so forth). I've already backed GoA and I'm looking forward to seeing the rules develop.

All that said, the initial funding goal for this campaign is pretty high - closer to many videogame KS targets than recent miniature campaigns - and how the money will be spent is a little muddy. Is it largely for the unglamourous back end - the web presence/game feedback/loop - and associated staffing? Marketing to get the game on shelves and selling beyond the KS early bloom? Biscuits? I think a lot of people would be happier to contribute (and invest emotionally) if there were a better presented plan for a lasting and sustainable community.

 Rick Priestley wrote:


Thanks for reading this far!

Alright. I stand corrected. You and the guy with a squat avatar have pretty much convinced me that this project has legs and deserves more attention. But be careful with me; I've been hurt before. ( I bought a lot of Ex Illis stuff.)

As the Kickstarter progresses, I hope to see a lot of fleshing out to this universe because it definitely has potential. Most importantly, though, I hope to see some nice miniatures and pledges that focus on them. I'll put in a token pledge for now so that I can participate, but can go in for a bit more when the setting and the models start taking off.

Thanks for addressing my (and others) issues.

And there we go...

I think my money is going poof the moment I see some sketches of an army I want to collect...

Here we go then Rick. You have more people willing to pledge but you are going to have to get some more concepts up, some very rough versions of rules (pre alpha?) and some greens (even if its just the war drones). I know we still have a long way to go and a lot is still quite malleable, but I feel the sooner this is done the more pledges you will get. You got mine from day one, im at Singularity Feeder Special plus t-shirt. Also as a quick question it might be quicker if you got some digital concepts up (if any of your guys can do it) and get some quick prototypes via 3D printing, surely there must be someone here in tbe UK that can do it?

There's already some information on the rules on the forum.
In particular, the (preliminary) turn sequence was posted a few minutes ago.

And Rick has added an update about game turns. There still WIP and says they seem to hold up to playtesting but still need some work (well thats the whole point of Alpha and Beta rules). I reslly like the look of them they seem quite interesting, though I think you need to limit the amount of times a unit can activate per game round (like DB you have 6 players but only 5 actions and 2 actions can be spent on one player). Anyway head over to the forums if you are intrested to get some mord ideas of what is going on.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2037958218/beyond-the-gates-of-antares/posts/380746?ref=email&show_token=d12d9f09219cd214

Edit: Damn Ninjas

Yep, backed this now on strength of the team behind it, and more due to reading what Rick posted today on the forums. Good Luck!

 Ravenblade666 wrote:
Yep, backed this now on strength of the team behind it, and more due to reading what Rick posted today on the forums. Good Luck!

Nice one

Point taken - I do understand that people expect to see visuals or at least are reluctant to invest without seeing something concrete - and that's something we'll be trying our best to address as we go forward. We do have a way to go yet!

Insightful first post Mr Priestly. I've read a few of your online interviews and often concurred with your views on game mechanics. Furthermore, I did of course greatly enjoy the 1990s output of GW. Consequently, I'm watching this with great interest.

 Rick Priestley wrote:
...people expect to see visuals or at least are reluctant to invest without seeing something concrete...

Especially those war drones... We have one piece of artwork which doesn't really give a detailed impression - There must be something more you can post without too much of a hassle? Some concept sketches, WiPs of concept sketches if need be, half-finished sculpts... anything

Oh darn it, my mate ended up talking me into giving in. That's 1 more 'double action feeder special' down.

I was wondering if there would be an add on to upgrade to the 'collectors edition' of the rulebook though. Or maybe some equivalent of that for the double...

Best bet is to back the 190 for the singularity feeder special, and then get the addon second feeder box. That way you get your collectors book and one feeder in the singularity.

Personally I joined in from the start for one sole reason, I am eager to see what Rick Priestley can create without the "shackles of GW" on him, I enjoy game design tremendously and I have an extended collection of games I never intended to play because I collected the rules.

For me the lineup of names is promising, all are accomplished veterans in their field, this does not guarantee anything of course, but I am quite eager to see what they can deliver.

So for me, its worth supporting because if only for the experiment.

Now as far as miniatures, game system ectr, while I do understand fleshed out things are appealing to the eyes, I think this is what kickstarter is about or should be about, not finished products in virtual preordering but rough things that will go to be refined, personally I would be more interested in the big picture, games overall system direction, games universe IP and miniatures release structuring, not how the miniatures or a single miniature will look.

Personally I am hesitant if I should join the site and give ideas on the game, I would really like to see what mr Priestley can create without my personal bias in it, I for example beleive that 40 miniatures per side and/ or any vehicles are way too much for a 28mm wargame played in a 4x6 board.

I liked that latest post. It is a very modern feel to the rules; both players taking part, units giving the impression of being able to react. I also like the idea of the tide of war ebbing and flowing, with a low roll sucking some of the energy out of the fight, while both sides hunker down and try to recover, and a high roll leading to carnage and a push forward.

I also posted a poll on the official forum, prompted by this update, concerning death and morale as the main determiners of combat status; I'm curious to know which way people lean, and perhaps it'll help the rules man to know as well!

Its a solid game turn structure, two things I do not like is prior sacrifice for support actions and the 12" firefight range, they could be more modern the CIL is quite nice rule but again in my opinion needs some work.

The main thing preventing me from going to singularity feeder up from normal feeder is the fact that the limited edition rulebook is essentially slapping on another £65-70 just to get a second copy of the rulebook when the feeder box already contains one. I'm guessing these are meant to sit on the shelf and look pretty but I've always just taken my limited / collectors edition stuff along to games and used it, afterall where's the fun if you can't show it off a little right!

Have the GoA crew thought about doing the whole 3d thing like DFG did with their plastic Eisenkern? It worked really well for them, the renders were great beforehand and I was surprised to see the plastics turn out so accurate to them.

Besides the names on the list for the company, I really like the ideas with the d10 system.

This was my first time contributing to a kickstarter, looking forward to it reaching full funding!

 Yonan wrote:
Have the GoA crew thought about doing the whole 3d thing like DFG did with their plastic Eisenkern? It worked really well for them, the renders were great beforehand and I was surprised to see the plastics turn out so accurate to them.

That would involve different artists for the sculpts, all listed are traditional artists.

And the initial costs for setting up a good 3d sculpting workshop are not small either.

So now that I've backed, where do I get forum access and stuff?

http://www.darkspacecorp.com/forum/index.php?sid=0cfe44e2da1128803f4534204ced7120

Everyone has access to the forums. After the KS is finished only backers will have access to the development forum. ATM the development forum is open to all.

Note that the rest of the forum is a normal forum and is open to all.

As stated above, most of the artists (and I think most of Warlord's plastics) have all been made the "traditional" way of 3ups/pantograph/mold. Warlord already are equipped for this, I do not think they are fully set up for a 3d digital workshop, and it would take some money to make this happen. However, I would not be surprised if eventually they also developed this.

And Rick's post is why I am in at the Feeder Hansa+ - knowing the job he has done before, and thinking about the job he'll do if he is given the chance for him to actually OWN his creation.

@BobtheInquisitor - I understand being "burned". But Rick has been one of the "Rocks" of gaming for a long time - and the success of projects like BP and HC he did as contract work should attest to that. Lots of Historical gamers are playing those rules because they are good - even if he did not write the supplement. Also THIS IS NOT EXILLIS! The concept Rick has put forth for Episodes and results may seem nebulous, but is completely different than lets play a computer game on a real table - which ExIllis always seemed to me. Glad to see you've been convinced to give it a shot.

overtyrant wrote:
http://www.darkspacecorp.com/forum/index.php?sid=0cfe44e2da1128803f4534204ced7120

Everyone has access to the forums. After the KS is finished only backers will have access to the development forum. ATM the development forum is open to all.

Note that the rest of the forum is a normal forum and is open to all.

Please make sure you sign up to the forum with the same email address as your Kickstarter account. This will be used to determine whether you retain access to the development section after the kickstarter closes.