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Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

pepe5454 wrote:
Barred from hitting.


Why would Zzap be barred from hitting fliers? its not a template or an attack that follows the ground, its just a heavyduty zzzzap of energy. Frazzle would be barred cuz that is a blast, even if it is also autohit. It does say the unit is hit, not a model, but its still not a template. (Rather annoying these conversations happen when i dont have my books handy lol)

Also @Sinji - Sorry, i dont have a whitedwarf so i never looked in there for that list. I only have a photocopy of the dakkajet stuff from a friend.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




From the BRB faq
Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas.
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One




Juneau, AK

 DieselJester wrote:
(I hate Necrons and their Zoggin' Mind Shackles BTW...)


you mad, bro?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Remember kids, LRBT's are like cheap beer. One is crap, 3 is ok, and every one you get after that is better than the last.

~ Shai'ghool Dynasty, 3500 points
~ Zerathian 401st Mechanized, 7000 points
~ Raven Guard, 3000 points
~ Warriors of Chaos, 2500 points 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Well gotta admit even if it is a chance to get zzap it would be a free flier kill. Str 10 would devastate most fliers without even trying, and give a ravenwing one hell of a scare (and usually take it out too)

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Maniacal Gibbering Madboy






Juneau, Alaska

wfischer wrote:
 DieselJester wrote:
(I hate Necrons and their Zoggin' Mind Shackles BTW...)


you mad, bro?


LOL. Yeah, I got a squiq with your HQ's name on it, mindshackle boy...

But back to the conversation at hand, So psykers can't hit flyers (laaaaame.... ) but they can still wreak havoc with other units from the looks of things. Might be beneficial to run a Weirdboy in future games.

"Orkses never loses a battle. If we win, we win, if we die, we die fightin' so it don't count. It we runs for it we don't die neither, cose we can come back for annuver go, see!"
-The Gospel according to Ork.

8000pts of WAAAGH!
Indiorkalypse Koltz - Ork BB Team

Ork P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/546562.page#5955022
Blood Bowl P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/594998.page#6826981 
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One




Juneau, AK

 DieselJester wrote:


So psykers can't hit flyers (laaaaame.... )


Actually... psykers can't use psychic abilities that would "fire" a template, that's clear. But what about non-template psychic abilities?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Remember kids, LRBT's are like cheap beer. One is crap, 3 is ok, and every one you get after that is better than the last.

~ Shai'ghool Dynasty, 3500 points
~ Zerathian 401st Mechanized, 7000 points
~ Raven Guard, 3000 points
~ Warriors of Chaos, 2500 points 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

pepe5454 wrote:
From the BRB faq
Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas.


as stated earlier. it says or, not and, so if it autohits it wont work

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

They only ruled it that way so people still buy their pretty planes instead of us saying "Yea those are cool, but a Librarian can murder it so nevermind"
   
Made in kr
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Sounds logical to me (OMG! Logic in 40k?!?)

I cant think of any spell that does damage that isnt a template or a line effect that wouldnt obliterate a flier lol. The only ones that come to mind with low strength are nova or line effects anyway.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in no
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Norway (Oslo)

So if you get a mysterious objective and toss a 3 ¨skyfire nexus¨ your unit can choose to use skyfire or not.. does that mean you can use the auto hit on a flyer?

Waagh like a bawz

-
Kaptin Goldteef's waagh! 16250 points 45/18/3 (W/L/D) 7th Ed

6250 points 9/3/1 (W/L/D) sixth-ed
Dark elves: 2350points 3/0/0 (W/L/D)
3400 points 19/6/0 (W/L/D) 8' armybook
Wood Elves 2600 points, 6/4/0 (W/L/D)

 
   
Made in us
Maniacal Gibbering Madboy






Juneau, Alaska

phatonic wrote:
So if you get a mysterious objective and toss a 3 ¨skyfire nexus¨ your unit can choose to use skyfire or not.. does that mean you can use the auto hit on a flyer?


Unfortunately, no. We still have the BRB FAQ that states: "any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them."

So Autohitting Psyker abilities still cannot target flyers regardless of the mysterious objective. But that's ok. Fielding a Wierdboy/Old Zogwort still has the potential to screw with opponent HQ and other units. I'm planning on pairing him up with a SAG MekBoy as my 2nd HQ choice on my next game to see how that turns out. Should be interesting.

"Orkses never loses a battle. If we win, we win, if we die, we die fightin' so it don't count. It we runs for it we don't die neither, cose we can come back for annuver go, see!"
-The Gospel according to Ork.

8000pts of WAAAGH!
Indiorkalypse Koltz - Ork BB Team

Ork P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/546562.page#5955022
Blood Bowl P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/594998.page#6826981 
   
Made in us
Stinky Spore




 KingCracker wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote:
Finally figured out where people were getting that 2+ save from with ADLs (+2 behind defense line going to ground, not +1) lol im always like WTF its a 4+ that makes it a 3+. Somethin else ive been doin wrong apparently .

Ghaz is cool n all but hes ~100pts more expensive than a meganob warboss and i dont quite see him painful enough to shuck that many points out.

While all these comments are helpful, i still feel like i must result to green tides to even attempt to win. Which is what im trying to avoid because theres no fancy stuff going on with it. Even at 1500pts, max boyz would eat about 800-900 of it if i ran them in BW + Trukks (since footslogging is horrible now) and that pretty much leaves me to 1 additional toy, which would be lootas and maybe a SAG.
However, against any army with deepstriking units that have templates or a LOT of dakka, this list is krumped instantly. Which i commonly face. Cant bubble wrap with grots because you can see over them and they cut back on my boyz numbers too.
Which goes back to one of my original gripes - every damn army has some instant transport for something useful...orks dont even have a distraction (kommandos 6+ armor ooo wow)

I was watching 2 friends play (Blood angels vs Necrons) and saw something that i literally dont think i could survive even with bad rolls on his end unless i was specifically built to survive it...thus having little else to use.
4 5man Marines with 2 of them having Lascannons scattered across the field for objectives, two Stormravens flying in with marines stuffed inside, 3 droppods 1 of which had Tactical squads, a Priest, and some random bolters - 1 with a Dreadnaught with heavy flamer and ... lots of other toys i forget the name of - and the third was empty.

Literally the only reason the Necron player survived...for the most part...was because the MEQs attacked Wraiths which have a 3+ invul with most of their attacks (after plastering a chariot and 4 scarabs). I just thought.......aside from a sheer bulk of numbers blocking droppod dumps...i literally couldnt face that because 5+ invul is selective for orks and rarely happen anyway, and he runs some kombi flamers in there in case theres terrain to deal with.
There would be nothing i could do against that aside from green tides and hope my 400000 dice wins first. Talk about stale gameplay. And he could just shoot over the boyz at the lootas i'd be protecting and probably take them out regardless.



Yea, hes 125pts over a megaboss with no other upgrades. That means you can have 2 megabosses for less then 1 Ghaz........hes very much not worth it.


Also, the only time you can shoot OVER a unit of boyz or grots, is if the unit being shot at, is on a building or a hill, basically anything that literally puts them OVER the unit being shot through/past.


No other upgrades? I mostly play against Necron and Grey Knights and let me tell you, not being insta killed is amazing. Ghaz can't kill himself from MSS in one round if he's at full wounds and fails his inv save (which he can make 2++ at ANY time) and he can't be force weaponed down. Sounds pretty good to me.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

So a megaboss will get instakilled over Ghaz. And? Its still 125pts cheaper, not to mention if your boss is in assault with a Lord with MSS, then its your own fault for him tasting his own PK. Think of what you can take with that EXTRA 125pts. Thats a WHOLE squadron of buggies WITH rokkits and enough to give a BigMek a burna. Thats a x5 unit of lootas with 50pts left over. Thats 20 boyz. And so on and so on and so on. Much better in my book, then not worrying about randomly being ID
   
Made in us
Stinky Spore




The megaboss is 125 pts cheaper if he doesn't have an inv save, no bosspole and no attack squig.

The first post of yours I quoted said Ghaz is 125 pts over a normal megaboss (has to be bare bones for that to be true) with no other upgrades. That's wrong.

If you want to spend your points elsewhere, please do, but Ghaz isn't totally worthless just because you don't like taking him.
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Sunshine Coast

I like Gaz and aside for the cool fluff behind him he can cut through a Termie mob solo on his Waaagh!!! turn and he can make all the boyz fearless for an entire round which can be worth the extra points.

Aslo while were on topic a warboss with Mega Armour, cybork body, boss pole and attack squig comes in at 130 points and is only 95 points cheaper than Gaz as still has one less WS and W and only gets 1A on the charge and is not Immune to ID not to mention he can't make all the da boyz fearless, all Meganobs Relentless giving them the ability to Overwatch, Run and sweeping advance for a full turn and making hos 2+ save into a 2+ invo. These extras alone are a steal for 95pts. Oh and did I mention Gaz has a big shoota not some crumby little shoota leave that to the boyz.
   
Made in kr
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

its not about him being worthless its about his cost vs effectiveness. Hes not much better, but damn near twice the cost

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Sunshine Coast

Its not what he does personally but what he can do to the rest of your force. He is really dependent on what the rest of you force can do. So if Gaz is with an army that he doesn't have any mojo with him he will suck. If used right Gaz can be a devistating force multiplier.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

Vineheart01 wrote:its not about him being worthless its about his cost vs effectiveness. Hes not much better, but damn near twice the cost

This is correct. To put it in a better, simpler point of view. Which is better? Lootas? Or FlashGits? They can both essentially do the same things to transports, and are able to mow down troops rather nicely. Everyone will most certainly say Lootas, because they cost so much less. Now if FlashGits and Lootas were the same points the argument would very much be harder, because one has a 48inch shot, but those shots are D3, so very random, and an AP that usually goes nowhere. Now the other has a 24inch shot, so 30inch threat range, but always has 2 shots and a random AP, so if you roll AP1 or 2, youre not only ignoring all armor saves, but youre popping transorts even easier.

But they arnt the same, one costs MUCH much more then the other and so is ignored readily. But because we are talking about Ghazzy, its somehow different? If this were 5th, I wouldnt argue, he was a wrecking ball with an excellent special ability. Now hes just a wrecking ball. That costs twice as much as a slightly less heavy wrecking ball, that still brings the building down.

Sinji wrote:Its not what he does personally but what he can do to the rest of your force. He is really dependent on what the rest of you force can do. So if Gaz is with an army that he doesn't have any mojo with him he will suck. If used right Gaz can be a devistating force multiplier.


And this not really. Ghaz doesnt really need to fit into an army build, he really will just smash anything in his way, thats not what Im arguing about. Now I wouldnt suggest slogging him, so a ride is pretty much mandatory, but we wont add that to the cost of the guy because a megaboss also has to have a ride. But either way, regardless of the army build, Ghaz will fit in just fine and kick some major ass. But the question needs to come down to "Is his ass whopping worth that much more then a normal boss?"

And sure you can argue that he is immune to ID and that his save is INV on his WAAAGH! Yes those are nice I spose, you dont have to really worry about what hes going after. BUT! those wont always save you. What if someone easily ties him up in a challenge? Then what? They have wasted your turn that you probably called the WAAAGH! on and now they can ignore his armor just as easily as my MegaBoss. And ID you only have to worry about if you dont pay attention to what youre attacking. If youre the type to blindly jump into assaults and such, then yes take Ghaz, because you obviously cant clearly think past 6inches.

The point isnt that Ghaz sucks compared to a standard MegaBoss, the point is, he is only slightly better than one. You take Ghaz, and Ill take a Stock MegaBoss with whatever extra points I have left in other units and such, and Id bet Id beat your 1 Ghaz everytime.
   
Made in us
Maniacal Gibbering Madboy






Juneau, Alaska

and that's provided that you even take a warboss. There are other HQ choices out there that can stand in as a warlord and be even more effective. Big Meks, for example.

"Orkses never loses a battle. If we win, we win, if we die, we die fightin' so it don't count. It we runs for it we don't die neither, cose we can come back for annuver go, see!"
-The Gospel according to Ork.

8000pts of WAAAGH!
Indiorkalypse Koltz - Ork BB Team

Ork P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/546562.page#5955022
Blood Bowl P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/594998.page#6826981 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

Agreed. Hell I very rarely ran a Warboss in 5th, it was BigMeks pretty much exclusively. Though now Id probably only take a SAG Mek anymore, as the Warboss (thankfully really) has taken its place at the front of the horde again
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Sunshine Coast

A neat trick is to attach the Big Mek with SAG to a squad of MANZ so he move and shoot. If you don't believe me check the rules for Slow and Purposeful.
   
Made in us
Maniacal Gibbering Madboy






Juneau, Alaska

Sinji wrote:
A neat trick is to attach the Big Mek with SAG to a squad of MANZ so he move and shoot. If you don't believe me check the rules for Slow and Purposeful.


Interesting tactic, but I personally wouldn't want to run the risk of rolling snake eyes and get the "Boom" result. Knowing me and dice that'd be what would happen and suddenly there goes all of my MANZ.

"Orkses never loses a battle. If we win, we win, if we die, we die fightin' so it don't count. It we runs for it we don't die neither, cose we can come back for annuver go, see!"
-The Gospel according to Ork.

8000pts of WAAAGH!
Indiorkalypse Koltz - Ork BB Team

Ork P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/546562.page#5955022
Blood Bowl P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/594998.page#6826981 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

Kind of like how I finally rolled double 6s on mine in a game, and naturally it landed on.....a bike. 1....lowly bike
   
Made in kr
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Sinji wrote:A neat trick is to attach the Big Mek with SAG to a squad of MANZ so he move and shoot. If you don't believe me check the rules for Slow and Purposeful.

What would be the point though? He has a 60inch range...unless youre in a cityscape i dont want him moving around anyway. Have to admit i'd rather have MANz than Grotz being a meatshield but thats an expensive as hell shield for a random weapon. Every time ive fielded him ive had what 3 spots i couldnt shoot at, all 3 of which either bad cover in avoiding the rest of my army or too far to do anything anyway?

KingCracker wrote:Kind of like how I finally rolled double 6s on mine in a game, and naturally it landed on.....a bike. 1....lowly bike


I have had insane luck with double 66s on my sag, but then i scatter off the board and the ammo runt didnt help lol. So annoying!!!
Contemplating not even taking one anymore. Every time i roll good, i miss .

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Maniacal Gibbering Madboy






Juneau, Alaska

Eh, I'm still fielding the Mek with the SAG just to make my opponent sweat at the possibilities of me rolling boxcars! Not to mention a 60" range means that practically no one is safe on the table. Last game I got a good scatter on him and wiped a Necron transport off the map (made him go boom! when I rolled a 6 on the Vehicle Dmg table) and wound up taking out half the unit next to him in the result!

"Orkses never loses a battle. If we win, we win, if we die, we die fightin' so it don't count. It we runs for it we don't die neither, cose we can come back for annuver go, see!"
-The Gospel according to Ork.

8000pts of WAAAGH!
Indiorkalypse Koltz - Ork BB Team

Ork P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/546562.page#5955022
Blood Bowl P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/594998.page#6826981 
   
Made in kr
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Oh yea even the possibility forces my opponent to deal with it. Even if i dont roll double 6s, roll a 56, or double 5s it still on average hits pretty damn hard provided i dont miss.

It did win me a game having that AP2 on there too. I centered it on a space wolf captain that dropped in with a bunch of kombi suckers. Rolled Str8, missed, Ammo runted a bullseye and took out the entire group except 1 remaining wound on the captain lol. He was NOT happy.
On the flip side ive had it make me lose lol.

Ran against Grey Knights and i had 2 SAGs. Turn 2, both of them rolled double 1s. I literally wiped out 2/3 my army on my own rofl. Damn you SAG!!!

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

Yea the SAG is aces in my book. It makes craters where troops once where, regardless of what type of troops, they are just no longer there. And when your luck is just right you can murder some vehicles as well. My best anti vehicle hit was there were 2 riflemen dreads side by side thanks to terrain and how I was moving my army. So I had already blew a hole in a bike squad the previous turn, so they werent a threat, and decided what the hell, and fired at one of the dreads. It scattered just enough to hit both, I rolled a 9 for str and ended up blowing BOTH dreads up in 1 shot. It left me with a smile
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Canada

LOL, The first game I ran my SAG I rolled snake eyes and vaped my Mek and most of the Shoota Boyz mob he was rolling with!

*edit, it was the very first shot of turn 1 as well

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/17 03:36:57


 
   
Made in kr
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Yea that sorta happened to a local new guy wanting to play orks. I leave my painted and unpainted orked in the cave (thats what we call our game room, its locked so we leave our stuff there a lot. I usually bring my unpainted stuff home) so he can play with them.

Turn 3 he was against Nids and in a 50-50 situation. I suggested use the SAG first since the only thing in sight is also in sight by the rest of your army. He rolled snake eyes and dominated half his lootas, the mek, and the grot meatshield rofl. I just look at him and go "Oops, i shouldht have suggested that"

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I have only taken SAG twice both times got double 1's on the first shot. Never taken it since.
   
 
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