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 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

Orktavius wrote:
GW still makes the highest quality miniatures out there regardless of whether or not you like their appearance.

-Edited by insaniak -

That's cute.

If that time ever existed, it's long over now.

Every other wargaming system I've ever browsed at my FLGS (one of the largest in southern Britain and stocks many different game systems on shelves) has had models that pale in comparison to 40k, short of Dystopian Wars (Steampunk colonialism world war or something like that) which was fairly recent. One of the store managers was banging on about how it would take off, and yet it never has, because there's no interest in investing in something that won't last. I'd buy the models, but I know the system will be dead within months if anyone even plays it to begin with. 40k on the other hand has a timespan of years ahead of it.

It baffles me how Infinity gets any praise for its models, the poses are silly and flat out stupid at times while the gameplay revolves around assortments of models that are inconsistent with Cossacks, French guys and SAS in say, one faction, and don't look that great either. Any chance of me trying it was absolutely destroyed by the poor quality of poses and lack of opportunity for tightly themed armies.

Warmachine looks too cartoony to me and the mechs look amateurish in their design. I think it was on a Malifaux promotional day that they were handing out free sample models, I went to receive mine to find it was like an ugly peasant in thin clothes exposing its rear end. No word of a lie.

I said "I might think of trying it" to the developer, but that felt like an insult and my interest dissipated completely. Those Dreamforge ones are "meh" to me, short of the Eisenkern storm troopers they look wrong and they lack detail, with large proportions of visible flat plastic surfaces making up a bunch of the models.

All subjective. There are plenty of companies that make amazing miniatures. Some that make outstanding rules.

If you think the PP stuff isn't up to snuff I would suggest you look at the colossals and gargantuans they are amazing models. Pricy but stunning.

As to GW if they put even a third of the money they devote to their models into the rules system we probably wouldn't have thread after thread about GW rage. The fluff is fantastic, I have read a great many awesome books from black library, but at the end of the day the rules just flat out suck, and why on earth would people not complain about spending over $1000 to play a subpar game with industry standard models?

 darefsky wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

Orktavius wrote:
GW still makes the highest quality miniatures out there regardless of whether or not you like their appearance.

-Edited by insaniak -

That's cute.

If that time ever existed, it's long over now.

Every other wargaming system I've ever browsed at my FLGS (one of the largest in southern Britain and stocks many different game systems on shelves) has had models that pale in comparison to 40k, short of Dystopian Wars (Steampunk colonialism world war or something like that) which was fairly recent. One of the store managers was banging on about how it would take off, and yet it never has, because there's no interest in investing in something that won't last. I'd buy the models, but I know the system will be dead within months if anyone even plays it to begin with. 40k on the other hand has a timespan of years ahead of it.

It baffles me how Infinity gets any praise for its models, the poses are silly and flat out stupid at times while the gameplay revolves around assortments of models that are inconsistent with Cossacks, French guys and SAS in say, one faction, and don't look that great either. Any chance of me trying it was absolutely destroyed by the poor quality of poses and lack of opportunity for tightly themed armies.

Warmachine looks too cartoony to me and the mechs look amateurish in their design. I think it was on a Malifaux promotional day that they were handing out free sample models, I went to receive mine to find it was like an ugly peasant in thin clothes exposing its rear end. No word of a lie.

I said "I might think of trying it" to the developer, but that felt like an insult and my interest dissipated completely. Those Dreamforge ones are "meh" to me, short of the Eisenkern storm troopers they look wrong and they lack detail, with large proportions of visible flat plastic surfaces making up a bunch of the models.

All subjective. There are plenty of companies that make amazing miniatures. Some that make outstanding rules.

If you think the PP stuff isn't up to snuff I would suggest you look at the colossals and gargantuans they are amazing models. Pricy but stunning.

As to GW if they put even a third of the money they devote to their models into the rules system we probably wouldn't have thread after thread about GW rage. The fluff is fantastic, I have read a great many awesome books from black library, but at the end of the day the rules just flat out suck, and why on earth would people not complain about spending over $1000 to play a subpar game with industry standard models?

I find it ironic that anybody that thinks WARMACHINE is cartoony likes WH40K miniatures.

I think that Infinity is too anime inspired, but that WH40K is just as cartoony, in a Judge Dredd inspired fashion.

But then I think that the United Americas Marines from Defiance look better than either one, so....

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
I find it ironic that anybody that thinks WARMACHINE is cartoony likes WH40K miniatures.

Why? They're two very different design aesthetics. While they both use deformed 'Heroic' scale, Privateer took the idea and ramped it up even further than most other companies have ever done so. Everything's all massive shoulders and hands and tiny legs.

They're both cartoony styles, but Privateer is cartoonier.

 insaniak wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
I find it ironic that anybody that thinks WARMACHINE is cartoony likes WH40K miniatures.

Why? They're two very different design aesthetics. While they both use deformed 'Heroic' scale, Privateer took the idea and ramped it up even further than most other companies have ever done so. Everything's all massive shoulders and hands and tiny legs.

They're both cartoony styles, but Privateer is cartoonier.

Come on now.... Everyone knows that the bigger the shoulder pads the greater the power......

This cartoon is more cartoonier than this cartoony cartoon.

On the subject of pauldrons.. http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Pauldrons

 Deunstephe wrote:
On the subject of pauldrons.. http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Pauldrons

I love the link to an article about the chapterhouse fiasco at the bottom there

An example of overdone shoulderpads - the fluff on these guys is basically "we're so tough, we wear light warjacks without engines as armor!" They are comparable in size to light warjacks and are just humans inside huge suits of armor. For people not up on PP stufff - they come on terminator sized bases but are closer in size to either chaos trolls or the old metal minotaurs with shoulderpads the size of storm shields.

Most everything without them tends to be pretty well proportioned, but I'll definitely agree that whenever Privateer pulls the shoulderpads out, things start to get cartoony. Of course, a big redeeming factor is that all those models with enormous shoulderpads (barring Cataphracts) can be assembled without them and still look great. There's a peg to slice off on the Bastions, but the underside is still detailed, and eVlad looks terrific.

And honestly, despite PP's problems with absurd shoulder pads, at the very least, their proportions aren't quite as silly as GW's massive bobble-heads and boxing gloves. And if we're going to get to silly proportions, don't even get me started on Terminators.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

Orktavius wrote:
GW still makes the highest quality miniatures out there regardless of whether or not you like their appearance.

-Edited by insaniak -

That's cute.

If that time ever existed, it's long over now.

Every other wargaming system I've ever browsed at my FLGS (one of the largest in southern Britain and stocks many different game systems on shelves) has had models that pale in comparison to 40k, short of Dystopian Wars (Steampunk colonialism world war or something like that) which was fairly recent. One of the store managers was banging on about how it would take off, and yet it never has, because there's no interest in investing in something that won't last. I'd buy the models, but I know the system will be dead within months if anyone even plays it to begin with. 40k on the other hand has a timespan of years ahead of it.

It baffles me how Infinity gets any praise for its models, the poses are silly and flat out stupid at times while the gameplay revolves around assortments of models that are inconsistent with Cossacks, French guys and SAS in say, one faction, and don't look that great either. Any chance of me trying it was absolutely destroyed by the poor quality of poses and lack of opportunity for tightly themed armies.

Warmachine looks too cartoony to me and the mechs look amateurish in their design. I think it was on a Malifaux promotional day that they were handing out free sample models, I went to receive mine to find it was like an ugly peasant in thin clothes exposing its rear end. No word of a lie.

I said "I might think of trying it" to the developer, but that felt like an insult and my interest dissipated completely. Those Dreamforge ones are "meh" to me, short of the Eisenkern storm troopers they look wrong and they lack detail, with large proportions of visible flat plastic surfaces making up a bunch of the models.

I think there are two divisions in this hobby, those that like to play games and those that like to collect miniatures. For those of us who like to play games, Games workshop is no longer an option, the rules are just unbalanced and broken at the core. But for the people who like collecting miniatures, games workshop still has some of the nicest and coolest models on the market. Collecting and painting miniatures is a solo experince though, and all collecters that I know really dont care about prices.. as they buy one model here and there... But I cant personaly bring myself to play 40k/WHFB because its way to broken, Its just isent fun doing it. And many people are on the fence and increaseing prices will only cause more people to quit 40k/WHFB. Most people I know dont like to paint or convert miniatures, they like to play games. That is were the BIG MARKET is, its not the painters and collectors, those people are a minority in this hobby.

In my local area for example It's me and 3 others who like to PAINT minatures/convert them etc.. the rest 15+ people like to play games. And when the Game is broken they quit. Having unbalanced and oudated rules will be the downfall of Games Workshop. Assembling, colleting and painting models (be it Airplanes, tanks or Table top wargaming miniatures) is something of the last century... Its a dying past time.. Games on the other hand have been around for thousands of years, and player VS player interaction is what drives not just our Table top hobby but also Computer games. If Games workshop do not fix their "rules" it will be NIGHT NIGHT for them....

The point I'm Making is this a much larger % of the Table top gaming comunity DO NOT CARE WHAT THE MODELS LOOK LIKE, they dont even care to paint them, they want to play a game. And a smaler % like myself like to paint and convert and find this past time fun, but most people dont... And I'm speaking from years of experince having come in contact with many diffrent people over the years.. Most dont care about painting, many dont even care about what the model look like and a few don't even care about the lore...

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

Orktavius wrote:
GW still makes the highest quality miniatures out there regardless of whether or not you like their appearance.

-Edited by insaniak -

That's cute.

If that time ever existed, it's long over now.

Every other wargaming system I've ever browsed at my FLGS (one of the largest in southern Britain and stocks many different game systems on shelves) has had models that pale in comparison to 40k, short of Dystopian Wars (Steampunk colonialism world war or something like that) which was fairly recent. One of the store managers was banging on about how it would take off, and yet it never has, because there's no interest in investing in something that won't last. I'd buy the models, but I know the system will be dead within months if anyone even plays it to begin with. 40k on the other hand has a timespan of years ahead of it.

It baffles me how Infinity gets any praise for its models, the poses are silly and flat out stupid at times while the gameplay revolves around assortments of models that are inconsistent with Cossacks, French guys and SAS in say, one faction, and don't look that great either. Any chance of me trying it was absolutely destroyed by the poor quality of poses and lack of opportunity for tightly themed armies.

Warmachine looks too cartoony to me and the mechs look amateurish in their design. I think it was on a Malifaux promotional day that they were handing out free sample models, I went to receive mine to find it was like an ugly peasant in thin clothes exposing its rear end. No word of a lie.

I said "I might think of trying it" to the developer, but that felt like an insult and my interest dissipated completely. Those Dreamforge ones are "meh" to me, short of the Eisenkern storm troopers they look wrong and they lack detail, with large proportions of visible flat plastic surfaces making up a bunch of the models.

 Fafnir wrote:
And honestly, despite PP's problems with absurd shoulder pads, at the very least, their proportions aren't quite as silly as GW's massive bobble-heads and boxing gloves. And if we're going to get to silly proportions, don't even get me started on Terminators.

Main thing though.. most peoples just assemble the miniature, slap on some paint and put it on the table. caring little about Style, shoulder size or anything relating to what the model actually looks like. A few of us, probably the same people who like to post on forums (most gamers dont), like the aesthetics of a miniature and we also like to take our time paining them. But we are in a minority.. Most people just like to play a Balanced game against friends...

Nucflash wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
And honestly, despite PP's problems with absurd shoulder pads, at the very least, their proportions aren't quite as silly as GW's massive bobble-heads and boxing gloves. And if we're going to get to silly proportions, don't even get me started on Terminators.

Main thing though.. most peoples just assemble the miniature, slap on some paint and put it on the table. caring little about Style, shoulder size or anything relating to what the model actually looks like. A few of us, probably the same people who like to post on forums (most gamers dont), like the aesthetics of a miniature and we also like to take our time paining them. But we are in a minority.. Most people just like to play a Balanced game against friends...

I think it's honestly a combination of everything. Privateer definitely wouldn't be the company it is today if it weren't for its excellent and ever-improving rules, but it also would have a lot smaller fanbase without the quality of miniatures it produces. While people definitely stay for the game itself, in my experience more jump in for the beautiful models, and the promise that if you work hard and eat your spinach your models can be beautiful too.

 Laughing Man wrote:

Nucflash wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
And honestly, despite PP's problems with absurd shoulder pads, at the very least, their proportions aren't quite as silly as GW's massive bobble-heads and boxing gloves. And if we're going to get to silly proportions, don't even get me started on Terminators.

Main thing though.. most peoples just assemble the miniature, slap on some paint and put it on the table. caring little about Style, shoulder size or anything relating to what the model actually looks like. A few of us, probably the same people who like to post on forums (most gamers dont), like the aesthetics of a miniature and we also like to take our time paining them. But we are in a minority.. Most people just like to play a Balanced game against friends...

I think it's honestly a combination of everything. Privateer definitely wouldn't be the company it is today if it weren't for its excellent and ever-improving rules, but it also would have a lot smaller fanbase without the quality of miniatures it produces. While people definitely stay for the game itself, in my experience more jump in for the beautiful models, and the promise that if you work hard and eat your spinach your models can be beautiful too.

Yes you have a point . Lets put it like you said people jump into the hobby because of the miniatures but they stay because of the rules and general gaming experince. But an interesting thing that would be fun to have some numbers on is "how many kidds have bought a starter Box from Games Workshop, that now is collecting dust in some basement?". I personaly think this number is huge. and the question is if the rules had been better how many would have stayed with the hobby?

The quality of a miniature is mostly subjective - not entirely, its possible to make general statements about the detail of a sculpt or its aesthetic style that most people will agree with, but for the most part it will come down to the individual as to whether they think something is the best.

So with that in mind, personally I think GW has been good at keeping a relatively high standard of miniatures throughout its life. Yes the occasional stinker, but also the occasional beauty. They've produced some great miniatures over the years. That being said, at times they have been eclipsed by other manufacturers, who I think for whatever reason have managed to produce at a level higher than GW. Thinking back, Rackham was one of the main contenders, and in my mind pushed miniature design firmly into the realm of 'art' - a lot of their range were beautifully designed, and it was such a shame that their artistic department was silenced by the appalling management. These days there are a few more contenders for that - Some of Mike McVey's stuff, and Corvus Belli's Infinity have miniatures featuring more detail, more dynamic sculpting, more imagination - if one is to use these as criteria for saying which is 'best'. I will say again though, such a thing is extremely subjective.

My greatest beef with GW at present from a miniature design point of view is that a lot of their latest releases pale in comparison to what they themselves have already produced. Not so much regarding the fliers looking like toys, the often used criticism (I mean - look at the Leman Russ and predator models again - they look like they should make little digitised sound effects when moving!) but that the sculptors themselves have been limited within the ever tightening circles dictated by the company's release schedule. GW hasn't done anything really new or exciting since Dreadfleet, and for a long time since then - its been something of a artistic cul-de-sac. And that with the combination of frequent price rises and re-boxing (as well as rule changes that exacerbate those costs) has given GW the impression of wallowing somewhat. It's hard to describe to younger players these days, but the situation was so much different during the 90's especially, when the company had found its feet, had some really talented sculptors (nowadays they have the Perrys and.. Jes Goodwin, who I refuse to believe made the Helldrake), and they were given a lot of room to create new things. These days it feels all too controlled, too sterile, and its why so many long term wargamers are turning elsewhere.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

Orktavius wrote:
GW still makes the highest quality miniatures out there regardless of whether or not you like their appearance.

-Edited by insaniak -

That's cute.

If that time ever existed, it's long over now.

Every other wargaming system I've ever browsed at my FLGS (one of the largest in southern Britain and stocks many different game systems on shelves) has had models that pale in comparison to 40k, short of Dystopian Wars (Steampunk colonialism world war or something like that) which was fairly recent. One of the store managers was banging on about how it would take off, and yet it never has, because there's no interest in investing in something that won't last. I'd buy the models, but I know the system will be dead within months if anyone even plays it to begin with. 40k on the other hand has a timespan of years ahead of it.

It baffles me how Infinity gets any praise for its models, the poses are silly and flat out stupid at times while the gameplay revolves around assortments of models that are inconsistent with Cossacks, French guys and SAS in say, one faction, and don't look that great either. Any chance of me trying it was absolutely destroyed by the poor quality of poses and lack of opportunity for tightly themed armies.

I'll just comment on the Infinity bit. The fluff explains why the different nations are bunched together. Plus, the aesthetics of the minis do form a cohesive whole, so I guess it's the names that irritated you so much.

And there's more to infinity than Ariadna, the 1 faction you mentioned. You can look it up here:

http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/facciones/

Regarding the "poor quality of poses" bit:



In general, your opinions on different games seem to be formed after a very short glance on a few models.

At some point I used to laugh that W40K had guys with chainswords and I'd never pick something like that up, but then I learned more about the game and found to like it.

 Alkasyn wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

Orktavius wrote:
GW still makes the highest quality miniatures out there regardless of whether or not you like their appearance.

-Edited by insaniak -

That's cute.

If that time ever existed, it's long over now.

Every other wargaming system I've ever browsed at my FLGS (one of the largest in southern Britain and stocks many different game systems on shelves) has had models that pale in comparison to 40k, short of Dystopian Wars (Steampunk colonialism world war or something like that) which was fairly recent. One of the store managers was banging on about how it would take off, and yet it never has, because there's no interest in investing in something that won't last. I'd buy the models, but I know the system will be dead within months if anyone even plays it to begin with. 40k on the other hand has a timespan of years ahead of it.

It baffles me how Infinity gets any praise for its models, the poses are silly and flat out stupid at times while the gameplay revolves around assortments of models that are inconsistent with Cossacks, French guys and SAS in say, one faction, and don't look that great either. Any chance of me trying it was absolutely destroyed by the poor quality of poses and lack of opportunity for tightly themed armies.

I'll just comment on the Infinity bit. The fluff explains why the different nations are bunched together. Plus, the aesthetics of the minis do form a cohesive whole, so I guess it's the names that irritated you so much.

And there's more to infinity than Ariadna, the 1 faction you mentioned. You can look it up here:

http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/facciones/

Regarding the "poor quality of poses" bit:



In general, your opinions on different games seem to be formed after a very short glance on a few models.

At some point I used to laugh that W40K had guys with chainswords and I'd never pick something like that up, but then I learned more about the game and found to like it.

As an Ariadna player I personally would like to state that my faction allows me to play with the best of Western special forces, nutcases with broadswords in kilts, and werewolves all within one faction with a great visual aesthetic across the combined force, tons of options and the ability to ye olde stomp on the kids with the shiny power armor. I fail to see how that isn't awesome in every possible way.

Viral ammo, that's how.

AH! You would all be fighting each other with rocks and clubs by this time if it weren't for the benevolent Aleph AI watching over you!

While mr. omega said it a bit extreme, it's sad that I have to agree with him on most parts. : /

The games workshop designs feel so much better than all the other models out there.
And while I dislike many of the newer models, the other companies just don't have that grown and really rich world 40k offers...

Also it is rather easy to identify with gamesworkshop fluff.
You've got the badass marines, the modern military ig, the mr. nice guy tau, the totally crazy dark eldar, etc.
And you see that the moment you look at them, you don't even have to read a word about them.
Now try that with infinity, I look at the models and I see fancy japano anime something miniatures
that look nice and all but utterly lack the feeling. (for example)

I would really really love to play other game systems, but atm there is nothing comparable out there :(

 IPS wrote:

Also it is rather easy to identify with gamesworkshop fluff.
You've got the badass marines, the modern military ig, the mr. nice guy tau, the wicket sick dark eldar, etc.
And you see that the moment you look at them, you don't even have to read a word about them.
Now try that with infinity, I look at the models and I see fancy japano anime something miniatures
that look nice and all but utterly lack the feeling. (for example)

Is that because you're already familiar with GW fluff though? Or because they've ripped off some well define tropes?

For instance, Necrons are terminators. Tyranids are aliens. Imperial Guard are just Marines (in Space). Orcs are Orcs. Tau are anime transformers that don't transform.

It's fairly obvious what most 40K factions are because they are common to the sci-fi genre.

With other games creating their own world with more neutral or innovative factions, it's harder to spot who is what.


Personally I find some of the stuff hard to identify with; Why is that 7+ft armoured Viking super-soldier riding a wolf into battle, when they have tanks, anti-grav and bikes? They must make for a pretty unstable shooting platform and aren't known for their ability to follow orders or carry loads. If they are super-wolves they'd still need to be twice the size to be any use.
In the same vein, why have you got horsemen with explosive lances? Surely if they even make it into contact with the enemy the explosive lance will be either useless or mess them up? It's still more believable than riding wolves.

 IPS wrote:

Also it is rather easy to identify with gamesworkshop fluff.
You've got the badass marines, the modern military ig, the mr. nice guy tau, the wicket sick dark eldar, etc.
And you see that the moment you look at them, you don't even have to read a word about them.

I have no idea about what the Tau are or what they represent given they didn't exist when I played 40K and I don't read the books. Tthe first time I ever saw them was in a toy shop, and I thought they were some sort of knockoff someone was making! The moment I looked at them I didn't think "Mr Nice Guy", I thought they were some sort of "japano anime something" miniatures (I only saw walker-mech things, not the faces of the aliens).

Oh, and IG equate to World War 1, not modern, despite what they look like. So 0 points there as well. Also I don't even know what 'wicket sick' is, so I don't know how that reaction is supposed to be provoked in me.

This is you basically subjectively saying "I know about the stuff from this game so I like it and award it positive properties to do with how obvious it all is, I don't know about the stuff from that game so I don't like it and describe it as lacking in character." That's an common (if blinkered) position to take, but I'm not sure what this has to do with prices?

I think the only reason most of us still play in our play group is we are heavily invested and enjoy being around each other. we could just as easily replace this game with a card game and be as happy. We have all reduced our purchases to only a few models a year due to pricing and time constraints with family and painting. I believe GW is seeing their player base age. I hardly ever see the yougins playing this type of game.

I just started 40k a few months ago , so nope, it hasn't priced me out.

I love the 40k universe. I REALLY love it. I have read some posts around here that makes me believe I'm in a minority, but I truly love this universe.
I knew about it before the dawn of war series, but it was my first big intro to this wonderful universe. I played it, I started reading more about it, I played the expansions, I played Dawn of War 2, I played Space Marine, I started collecting the Black Library books, many about Space Marines but a lot others about Inquisition, IG and any "xenos" based stories I found.
Heck, even with civilians! I actually have a short-story where the main character is a simple Adept with no combat experience.

And some months ago I stopped resisting and started "The Hobby". I love it. I'm actually painting and creating my own Necrons (Oh, and again, I'm in a minority. I like the NewCrons a LOT. I WILL have a Cleopatra as a "Count-as" Overlord or Nemesor ).
Yes, it's expensive and it made me quit MtG, but it just doesn't compare. I plan on starting other armies once I feel my Necrons are "done", and that is going to take a while.

Some models are very expensive, yes, but that's why I search for other online stores with better prices. I like the GW's 40k models a lot and there aren't many alternative models for Necrons (No, PuppetsWar models don't count, they are cool but are not Necrons, not one bit) so my only hope is to keep searching around the internet for the better prices. eBay helps too! As long as there are alternatives to the prices GW has in their website, I'm game for more minis.

Sorry for the long rant, but after reading so many pages of negative comments, I felt like telling my story with 40k

Why is "Cartoony" being thrown around like it's bad thing? It's a stylistic choice, not an indicator of quality. Personally I love the OTT style in Warmachine/Hordes the whole seems like it'd be right at home alongside the stuff I was watching on Saturday mornings in middle school. That's all right by me, it makes inner 13yr old boy very happy.

While I'd say that GWs plastics are somewhat better in terms of production quality (their process seems to retain detail better), the gulf isn't huge. The metals are certainly on par with each other.

tgf wrote:
I think the only reason most of us still play in our play group is we are heavily invested and enjoy being around each other. we could just as easily replace this game with a card game and be as happy. We have all reduced our purchases to only a few models a year due to pricing and time constraints with family and painting. I believe GW is seeing their player base age. I hardly ever see the yougins playing this type of game.

I agree with you 100%, Maybe its a USA thing? More children play overseas? Ive been playing GW for 2 decades and have lived the evolution. I don't see children playing(at all) like I did before, but I still hear about it from time to time.(Usually haters talking about GW target audience)

yes I am in the USA. I have also heard 40k has a larger following in Europe.

 IPS wrote:
While mr. omega said it a bit extreme, it's sad that I have to agree with him on most parts. : /

The games workshop designs feel so much better than all the other models out there.
And while I dislike many of the newer models, the other companies just don't have that grown and really rich world 40k offers...

Also it is rather easy to identify with gamesworkshop fluff.
You've got the badass marines, the modern military ig, the mr. nice guy tau, the wicket sick dark eldar, etc.
And you see that the moment you look at them, you don't even have to read a word about them.
Now try that with infinity, I look at the models and I see fancy japano anime something miniatures
that look nice and all but utterly lack the feeling. (for example)

I would really really love to play other game systems, but atm there is nothing comparable out there :(

All I see when I look at 40k is space marines in slightly different colours with a bit of decoration to make them "different"

Herzlos wrote:

 IPS wrote:

Also it is rather easy to identify with gamesworkshop fluff.
You've got the badass marines, the modern military ig, the mr. nice guy tau, the wicket sick dark eldar, etc.
And you see that the moment you look at them, you don't even have to read a word about them.
Now try that with infinity, I look at the models and I see fancy japano anime something miniatures
that look nice and all but utterly lack the feeling. (for example)

Is that because you're already familiar with GW fluff though? Or because they've ripped off some well define tropes?

For instance, Necrons are terminators. Tyranids are aliens. Imperial Guard are just Marines (in Space). Orcs are Orcs. Tau are anime transformers that don't transform.

It's fairly obvious what most 40K factions are because they are common to the sci-fi genre.

With other games creating their own world with more neutral or innovative factions, it's harder to spot who is what.


Personally I find some of the stuff hard to identify with; Why is that 7+ft armoured Viking super-soldier riding a wolf into battle, when they have tanks, anti-grav and bikes? They must make for a pretty unstable shooting platform and aren't known for their ability to follow orders or carry loads. If they are super-wolves they'd still need to be twice the size to be any use.
In the same vein, why have you got horsemen with explosive lances? Surely if they even make it into contact with the enemy the explosive lance will be either useless or mess them up? It's still more believable than riding wolves.

It might be that it is because I'm fammiliar with 40k fluff (even though I'm not totally crazy about it)
But it's exactly what you say. 40k picks up the typical sci fi stereotypes and puts all of them into one universe.
So that I can freely choose between them and make my own stories and worlds. And that's just how i like it.

The wolf is actually a great example, what if I am the kind of guy that allways wanted to see a man in big armor, riding a wolf, with an energy sword?
Is there a guy riding a wolf in any other sci fi game out there?^^ (idk really maybe there is?)
And if I don't like the wolf riding guy I pick another army, nobody forces me to play with him.

Riquende wrote:

 IPS wrote:

Also it is rather easy to identify with gamesworkshop fluff.
You've got the badass marines, the modern military ig, the mr. nice guy tau, the wicket sick dark eldar, etc.
And you see that the moment you look at them, you don't even have to read a word about them.

I have no idea about what the Tau are or what they represent given they didn't exist when I played 40K and I don't read the books. Tthe first time I ever saw them was in a toy shop, and I thought they were some sort of knockoff someone was making! The moment I looked at them I didn't think "Mr Nice Guy", I thought they were some sort of "japano anime something" miniatures (I only saw walker-mech things, not the faces of the aliens).

Oh, and IG equate to World War 1, not modern, despite what they look like. So 0 points there as well. Also I don't even know what 'wicket sick' is, so I don't know how that reaction is supposed to be provoked in me.

This is you basically subjectively saying "I know about the stuff from this game so I like it and award it positive properties to do with how obvious it all is, I don't know about the stuff from that game so I don't like it and describe it as lacking in character." That's an common (if blinkered) position to take, but I'm not sure what this has to do with prices?

Same here really.
Yes you can play IG as ww1 army, if you like to.
BUT you can also play them as modern tactical marine army, it's your choise, nobody tells you what to do,
but you get the basis to do as you like.

And it might be subjective talk, yes.
However, when I first saw a gamesworkshop miniature I was facinated.
Then I read some backstory and I liked it even more.

On the otherhand I looked at a lot of miniatures of other game systhem
(and I would even buy and paint some single models as collectors miniatures, for example some Infinity or Dream Forge models)
and I read A LOT of backstories of other game sythems as well (because I'm acutally looking for an alternative to Gamesworkshop games in general)
But it never struck me as it did with 40k.

It has nothing to do with prices really, but it shows that GW can put any price tag they want to the hobby,
because the other game systhems aren't really comparable.
I will personally keep playing 40k with the models I allready have and buy new ones from ebay and download my codici as pdf.
But I won't invest in other game systhems either and will not abandon 40k... (at least untill there is a viable alternative)

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 IPS wrote:
While mr. omega said it a bit extreme, it's sad that I have to agree with him on most parts. : /

The games workshop designs feel so much better than all the other models out there.
And while I dislike many of the newer models, the other companies just don't have that grown and really rich world 40k offers...

Also it is rather easy to identify with gamesworkshop fluff.
You've got the badass marines, the modern military ig, the mr. nice guy tau, the wicket sick dark eldar, etc.
And you see that the moment you look at them, you don't even have to read a word about them.
Now try that with infinity, I look at the models and I see fancy japano anime something miniatures
that look nice and all but utterly lack the feeling. (for example)

I would really really love to play other game systems, but atm there is nothing comparable out there :(

All I see when I look at 40k is space marines in slightly different colours with a bit of decoration to make them "different"

Well yes, they are overdoing it with the space marine, I can totally agree with you there.
But that's not what I am talking about