Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

But PLASTICS!!!!!

Oh wait, you can get Perry Napoleonic troops in plastic....

And Victrix (the maker of the 2nd picture in my post) has some metals as well.

I think we can pretty much declare the myth that historicals are lower quality debunked.

And I didn't even have to post any pictures of GHQ microarmour that has more detail in 6mm than most GW tank kits do.

But I will anyway:





And those will run you about $2 each.

..

agustin wrote:

 legopirate wrote:

Fourthly, historical gaming is an entirely different kettle of fish (imo). Napoleonics are often massively cheaper but the quality is in line with the pricing.

LOL. You do know that you can get Napoleonics sculpted by GW's best sculptors, the Perrys right?

Spoiler:

The guy on the left is sad because you think he's a bad sculpt and he only costs £1.50 and is in metal.

The other sculptors out there seem to be doing a pretty good job as well:



These guys are looking grim because they just realized that people are paying way more than the 42 pence each they cost.for no real difference in quality.

Agreed. I have no interest in historical, but the idea that if you play historical you're limited to crappy looking figs is not true.

There's always been a range of figs from mediocre, to figures that are as good as the best from GW. I grant that you used to have to pay quite a bit for nicer figs, but with companies like victrix and perry doing plastics, you can get napoleonics as good as GW for a fraction of the price.

I actually think Perry and Victrix should raise their prices.

One reason is that people who have made a large investment in GW games, reason they have to get the best return on their investment , by keeping involved and invested in GW games.

Yet those aware of the wider hobby, seem to be able to swap and change freely between companies products without any sort of 'investment lock in'.

Many gamers are unaware you can use your GW minis in other less 'investment heavy' games...

Some factors I think GW plc depend on.

I have played Malifaux quite a bit & due to how cheap it can be to amass a sizable amount of figs (compared to 40k that is) I've got a decent amount of Guild & Mercenaries figs. However, 40k was the first game I started with at 11 years old & no matter how exorbitant GW's prices may get or how much I may grow to dislike their rules, I stick with them for some reason. Kinda like a battered woman

Though speaking of women, I'd like to see more women getting into 40K, the few I've played against are alot of fun & really good sports. I feel that we, as men, often get too into the competitive nature of it & forget some of the fun of it. Hence, why I don't do tournies a whole lot.

I like GW stuff because i like the looks of the models and the fluff. I also love to paint and get most of my models through trading of my paint service, most of my friends tend to play 40k. I am not a real big fan of the actual gaming community as i prefer to play fluffy cool looking lists but i do manage to get a game in now and then with a couple of friends. I am not opposed to trying out a different system at all. I am actually going to be painting some WM/H guys for a friend soon and will be recieving a legion of everblight army in return. I also have a wife and a toddler and a second on the way so my time and resources are very limited.

I've always stuck with 40k until recently. I just find the prices exorbitant, I can't justify new models or a new army. I've got over 4000k of Wolves/Marines. I can play SW/SM/CSM/BA/DA/BT with what I have. Most of this stuff was bought cheap years ago (three old rhinos, I think you got them in a box for 20 quid etc) with some stuff bought at 25-50% retail price from mates recently. The only things I've 'bought' from GW in the past five years or so was Arjac and some Thunderwolves - both for birthday/christmas :p.

GW paints are quite cheap for what you get - that's the only thing that is as far as I can see.

Infinity is great fun, and I love the constant involvement. The models aren't cheap cheap, but they're lovely and metal, and angry space-scotsmen appeal to me greatly. I've spent 35 quid and have an army. I can't say no to that really.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

Never been an RPG player, but I keep hearing this about them. Whats the best one to start with? People are muttering Deathwatch locally.

My own favourite is Rogue Trader. The premise is very original among sci-fi RPG's, suggesting all sorts of plots that wouldn't occur in other genres. The background is fascinating, both for the details of stuff like how ships work, Warp travel, Navigators, etc, and also the relations the characters will have with the wider Imperium, the sorts of places they explore and the society of the Rogue Traders themselves.

Damn you all, you're making me want to play non-GW games. Which would be fine except I know that, like the last three times, I'll get all excited about it, get some models, paint them, and then they'll sit on the shelf because I've got no one to play with. Which that in itself wouldn't be all that bad if I could get the "army building" feel I get with 40k.

ghpoobah wrote:


The question I have is "If there was another scifi game available that offered the range of game sizes 40k supports, with a free download of the rules available and some very cool background (tons of fluff) how many people would give it a go?"

I 100% would, and if anyone knows a game like this and can point it out to me (besides WFB) then I will love you forever.

You know what I would go for? A well done, none-skirmish game that is stylistically like Warcraft. I love that game's aesthetics and background.

I think the first thing to do is not to change miniature suppliers and get new rules from the new supplier, but to use your existing collection with new rules. And you can even start with free ones like "In the Emperor's Name." That game is making me contemplate building a customer genestealer cult retinue using bitz and greenstuff.

Other game systems I play.

1. Malifaux. Play this more than 40k. Smaller table size, smaller crew, each model is important hat you hire. Even on defense you are actively involved. Plus, something not a D6 system. Low start up cost is great. Ready to be competative under $70.00

2. Dystopian wars legions. These models look cool and it is an in between of Malifaux and 40k.

Games I have stopped or not started.

1. Dystopian wars. I like the look of the ships. I did not like play of the game. Long time to move ships, exploding dice can be ridiculous at times. If you don't have dreadnought ships you will lose. One of the worse organized rule books of all times to.

2. Drop zone commander. Price to start is high. Plus, I hate painting that small of a scale.

Lack of opponents prevents me from playing games like Dust with other people really.

I tried signing up for the local wargaming forums in Western Australia (WestGamers or something) but I haven't receieved any replies. Additionally I have no idea where to go with regards to where people play other systems.

I wouldn't mind playing 40k still, just I'm getting a little bored of half the people at my local GW being kids all the time. I don't have a problem with playing against them, just it gets a little tiring when they so non-nonchalantly try to break rules.

It sucks because I have a Dust Tactics box sitting right next to me, not being played. All of my friends just play D&D and don't like tabletop wargaming at all.

 Elemental wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

Never been an RPG player, but I keep hearing this about them. Whats the best one to start with? People are muttering Deathwatch locally.

My own favourite is Rogue Trader. The premise is very original among sci-fi RPG's, suggesting all sorts of plots that wouldn't occur in other genres. The background is fascinating, both for the details of stuff like how ships work, Warp travel, Navigators, etc, and also the relations the characters will have with the wider Imperium, the sorts of places they explore and the society of the Rogue Traders themselves.

I've still got the original RT book indoors!

With Warmachine, warcraftish art and models.

With Infinity, skirmish scale.

In general, my Warhammer conditioning from teen days.

 -Loki- wrote:

 R3con wrote:
I'm so heavily invested into GW models it would be hard to justify starting another system.

This makes zero sense unless you're afraid that you'll like the other system more and sell your GW stuff at a loss.

Trying another system doesn't make your GW stuff explode, nor does it mean you may never play another GW game again.

Playing another companies game just means... you get the option of playing another companies game.

I probably should have been more clear, money is not my issue time is, I have 3 kids and a business to run. My free time is at an extreme minimum so much so that I get 1 game in every month and probably 2 hours to paint every month. Learning a new system that is anything other than a skirmish game is going to be pretty much impossible.

I think you're missing out a few really good reasons.

- They're by far the most popular and therefore easier to find someone to play against, wherever I am in the world.

- I like the 40k background far more than most competing companies, and the 20 year history of the game means that this background is much more fully realised than most competing companies.

Those are excellent reasons for wanting to play GW games. They don't really seem to be relevant for stopping you playing anything else though.

 Peregrine wrote:

Anyway, for me it's simple: GW is the only company that produces a complete 28mm scifi game with multiple armies, tanks, etc. Other companies either produce a handful of models (usually intended to be used with 40k), or are infantry-only skirmish games that I'm not really interested in. So pretty much it's GW/40k or end up with a bunch of random models and a mess of a house rule system to make everything work properly. IOW, a game that I can only play with a few specific friends, not in random pickup games.

This for me.

Plus, perhaps this is heresy to utter here, but I really like and enjoy GW's games. I have no real complaints and am happy to play the system as they are. Having children, and seeing how expensive their LEGO is, I have no complaints about the price, either. I think it's actually pretty fair, and gives me much more "bang for my buck" than my other recreational activities.

Riquende wrote:
Those are excellent reasons for wanting to play GW games. They don't really seem to be relevant for stopping you playing anything else though.

Well, then I guess the option I'd like is

- I understand that there are lots of good games out there, but I don't have enough time/cash to play all of them, and I choose the system that allows me to play more often.
- I understand that there are lots of good games out there, but I don't have enough time/cash to play all of them, and I like the GW background the most.

 ArbitorIan wrote:

Riquende wrote:
Those are excellent reasons for wanting to play GW games. They don't really seem to be relevant for stopping you playing anything else though.

Well, then I guess the option I'd like is

- I understand that there are lots of good games out there, but I don't have enough time/cash to play all of them, and I choose the system that allows me to play more often.
- I understand that there are lots of good games out there, but I don't have enough time/cash to play all of them, and I like the GW background the most.

Or put better.

-I just don't want too.

I'm a big proponent of non-GW games, but I think there's nothing wrong with not wanting to play or invest time/effort into a different game.

This discussion usually seems to go like this:

a. What stops you from playing non-GW games?
b. I've got alot invested in GW, and/or like the fluff, and/or enjoy the models, and/or etc, etc.
a. so you like GW games, but why don't you play other games too?

At this point person B can go back to saying why they don't and why they like the game they like, and person A can come back with one of dozens of reasons why they feel someone should try another game....

When all person B needs to say is.

I don't want too.

Surely when it comes to a person's hobbies that' s enough?
Is it really worthwhile to try and convince someone that their way of enjoying the hobby is not enough?

Riquende wrote:
Those are excellent reasons for wanting to play GW games. They don't really seem to be relevant for stopping you playing anything else though.

Re 1st point:

If I collect 40k or Fantasy I know that if I go to Brazil, Saudi Arabia, the UK, Singapore or Japan the game will still be played.

If I collect Infinity, Lord of the Rings or even WM, I don't know if that would be the case.

If I ever move countries, I know that I'll have people to play 40k with me if I go to a relatively affluent part of the world. With other games I won't. So if there is a good chance that I will be moving countries a lot, isn't it a sound idea to play the game that is most widely played? There's no point in investing hundreds of dollars into other games if I know that when I move country the purchases may be for nought.

Eilif wrote:

Or put better.

-I just don't want too.

Well, no. There are reasons.

I don't want to because of certain reasons. If I had infinite money and time, or those other games were played more widely, I might play them. I've seen other games that I like the look of, and that I would like to play if I had the time to spare. But I don't.

 ArbitorIan wrote:

Eilif wrote:

Or put better.

-I just don't want too.

Well, no. There are reasons.

I don't want to because of certain reasons. If I had infinite money and time, or those other games were played more widely, I might play them. I've seen other games that I like the look of, and that I would like to play if I had the time to spare. But I don't.

Sorry, I think that when it comes to games and hobbies "I don't want too" is a good reason, but I didn't mean to imply that you don't have other good reasons. My fault.

I may have got a bit overboard with my reaction to the choices on the thread and folks who go round and round with ever more reasons why they think folks should try other games.

I mainly play Infinity because it's more fun than GW's games.

Eilif wrote:

 ArbitorIan wrote:

Eilif wrote:

Or put better.

-I just don't want too.

Well, no. There are reasons.

I don't want to because of certain reasons. If I had infinite money and time, or those other games were played more widely, I might play them. I've seen other games that I like the look of, and that I would like to play if I had the time to spare. But I don't.

Sorry, I think that when it comes to games and hobbies "I don't want too" is a good reason, but I didn't mean to imply that you don't have other good reasons. My fault.

I may have got a bit overboard with my reaction to the choices on the thread and folks who go round and round with ever more reasons why they think folks should try other games.

"I don't want to" still isn't a good reason as it implies there is nothing good but the choice or a stubborn ignorance of alternatives. "I am satisfied with my current choice" is the better reason as it stipulated that your needs and wants are being satisfied and further alternatives are currently a non-interest or non-profitable investment.

i'm sure other game systems have their own pros/cons over Games Workshop, but the reason I don't get into them is simple. CBA

 Surtur wrote:

"I don't want to" still isn't a good reason as it implies there is nothing good but the choice or a stubborn ignorance of alternatives. "I am satisfied with my current choice" is the better reason as it stipulated that your needs and wants are being satisfied and further alternatives are currently a non-interest or non-profitable investment.

Hmm, I think they're both valid, but I do like the way you say it much better.

Definitely implies a deliberate choice rather than the possible hints of petulance that could easily be read into my version.

I'm the only one in my group that seems to want to try other games. I've gotten people interested in Warmachine, but the interest doesn't seem to stick past the point of buying a starter set.

Most of them are Space Marine players of various colors and really like the background, I can't fault them for that. But when everyone is allying with Guard and buying bits online at absurd prices because GW doesn't give you all the parts, it gets on my nerves. I liked the allies system intially, but the pressure/need to ally with guard bothers me.

I don't get why people that claim to be competitive players (and don't seem to care about background or models) play 40k. It's a terrible rules system for serious play and is meant to just be a fun waste of time (which it can be).

If my group decided to never play 40k again and all started Warmachine, I would be overjoyed. Unfortunately, I don't have the free time to really push a new game and keep people playing often enough. I'm not going to leave my group because I've been friends with some of them for half my life now and it's the only time we hang out anymore. I don't have the time or money to play two different games. Hopefully someone else see's the light soon.

Until then, I'll keep playing my Dark Eldar. Yeah the rules are poorly written, and the game is very unbalanced... but at least my army looks cool.

Sorry for rambling, just kinda vomited out.

TLDR: I hate Imperial Guard. They ruined the allies system.

What stops me personally is the quality of the models. I think Warmachine is probably the closest in quality, but they aren't that close. I also don't like the crowd that plays Warmachine/Hoardes....from what I see, they are the worst of the worst TFG's from 40k. Too competitive and having no fun.

I REALLY like the rules of Bolt Action, but just couldn't make myself buy any of those mini's...they are truly horrible.

If another game came out that had models that were on par with 40k as far as detail and thoughtfulness I'd consider. Right now, most of my time I spend painting......GW models, especially the newer ones, blow me away.

Tabletop gaming to me is mostly about being creative, not about being competitive. I'd probably paint their mini's even if I never played another game. Their competitors IMO are so busy competing with GW's business model, pricing and rule system they don't spend enough time on the mini's.

just MHO