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2013/01/17 06:41:48
Subject: 1750 Upcoming Tournament - What Should I Bring?
Just had a test game with my Double-Trouble Chaos Space Marines (List #3). Didn't do a battle report but will give a summary.
My opponent will be attending the tournament as well and for tonight, he brought a combo Necron/Chaos list (probably won't be his final list, especially not after our game).
Anyways he brought:
Necron Lord
Chaos Lord
19x Cultists - Shooty
19x Cultists - Choppy
5x Immortals - Night Scythe
5x Immortals - Night Scythe
5x Immortals - Night Scythe
5x Immortals - Night Scythe
6x Wraiths - 3x Whips
Heldrake - Baleflamer
Forgefiend - Hades Autocannons
We played The Scouring. He ended up killing the Heldrake and 1 unit of zombies only for 1 VP (Fast Attack). I shot down 2 flyers, got First Blood (wraiths), 2 Fast Attacks (Heldrake + Wraiths), Linebreaker and 3 objectives (4+3+1) for a total of 12 VP's. Overall, it was good practice. I believe he will be switching up his list after this game. I feel more confident now against flyer armies. Now he is thinking about running a pure Necron army with 4-5 flyers and 12 wraiths.
More practice games tomorrow.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/18 06:31:30
IMO your opponent was on the right track in Necron + Chaos list combo, but should have tweaked it with less flyers and more some heavy support.
The problem with fielding so many flyers is the same with any reserve armies. It's unpredictable when reserves come in (though there are some options to make it chances higher) and it puts immense pressure on the units already deployed on the table. An effective first turn of shooting can cripple ground forces, turning the game into a meat grinder.
A hybrid between Jy2's CSM list and Necrons may have been more effective:
-Typhus
-25 Zombies
-25 Zombies
-10 Zombies
-Helldrake, Baleflamer
-3 Oblits, Mark of Nurgle, Veterans of Long War
-3 Oblits, Mark of Nurgle, Veterans of Long War
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/18 07:26:27
Yeah I voted Nids, but after what you guys said about the size of this tournament, I do want to see you rock out something different. We'll see enough of the bugs come BAO
I'll be there as well with the Necron Legion of Undying Imhotep.
Solve a man's problem with violence and help him for a day. Teach a man how to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime - Belkar Bitterleaf
2013/01/19 16:04:38
Subject: 1750 Upcoming Tournament - What Should I Bring?
Zathras wrote: I'll be there as well with the Necron Legion of Undying Imhotep.
Will see you guys there. If you guys are rocking crons, there's going to be a lot of necrons and flyers at this tournament. I believe Devin is also going to bring his crons.
Fortunately, neither Janthkin nor I will be bringing our necrons. That'll be too many necrons! Instead, we've been corrupted by the Warp side....
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/19 16:33:51
2nd edition: Blood Angels
3rd edition: Imperial Guard
4th edition: Iron Warriors
5th edition: Death Guard
6th & 7th edition: taking a break - power creeep (lethality of game) became too hot to handle
Overall, it was a great tournament. The turnout was 20, which is above-average for our area. Usually, the local 1-day tournies are only around 12-15 players, but it's been a while since our last tournament.
From scanning the event, the types of armies included:
1 Biker army (my opponent from this game 40K Video Bat Rep: Jy2′s Chaos vs. Capt’n Dees’ Biker Marines 1750 BAO Practice Game)
1 Blood Angels (meched, land raider + triple-vindies)
1 Eldar (mix foot-list)
1 Green Tide Orks (150+ models)
1 Necrons (12 wraiths, 2 D-lords, 28 immortals in 2 night scythes and 3 annihilation barges)
1 Space Marines w/Tau allies (my opponent from this game 1750 BAO Practice Match - Hive Fleet Pandora vs Space Marines/Tau)
1 Space Marines w/IG allies (thunderfires, stormtalons, hydras....an oddball mix of a list)
1 Space Wolves w/IG allies (lots and lots of bodies, somewhat similar to my wolves though with IG blob squad)
1 Tyranids (Swarmlord, flyrant, 2 tervigons....basically Janthkin's list but run by another player)
1 Imperial Guard (2 vendettas, 3 leman russes, massed infantry)
2 Dark Angels (1 Deathwing and 1 mix)
2 Chaos (my Nurgle list and Janthkin was running Slaanesh with daemon allies for the very first time)
1-2 more Space Marine armies.
4-5 Grey Knights, ranging from triple-stormravens to triple-dreadknights to Crowe/Coteaz Purifiers/Henchmen.
First off, I'd like to thank Devin for taking the time to plan and run this tournament. He did a great job, there were no issues and everything was on-time. Now with that said, let's go onto the lists.
It wasn't even close. My Hive Fleet Pandora blew away all the other lists in the voting. However, I decided to bring my 2nd most popular list - the runner-ups, my Double Trouble Dynamic Duo Chaos list - mainly because I wanted to see how they would do in a competitive setting and also because I am saving my tyranids for a "future tournament".
List-wise, there were no easy opponents. All my opponents had brought tough, tough lists and my 2nd round opponent (who I've played against before) is a really good player. The other 2 opponents I have never played against before.
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword, Personal Teleporter
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword, Personal Teleporter
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword, Personal Teleporter
Thoughts: I've seen Mike around at our LGS almost every week. However, I have yet to play against him. He brought a very tough Coteaz-Mordrak MSUGK list and I knew that this would be a tough, tough battle. Ironically, he brought this list on Thursday prior to the tournament and absolutely obliterated the Space Marine/IG player (who is also in this tournament as well) in a practice game. I then asked him if he was going to bring this list to the tournament and he said he wasn't sure. Well, for some reason, I think he was sure.
Thoughts: I've played against Kingsley before (1750 BAO Practice Match - Hive Fleet Pandora vs Space Marines/Tau). He is a very good player and his space marines are very deceptive. On paper, it doesn't look so dangerous, but it's got a lot of hidden synergies and he really knows how to play his army. Similar to the very first time I played against Janthkin, I believe it is the general that makes the list work, and his list almost blew away my bugs in our last game. I can't under-estimate Kingsley.
Rune Priest - Chooser, Terminator Armor, Jaws, Living Lightning
Company Command Squad
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Meltas, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Meltas, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Plasmas
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Plasmas
Platoon Command Squad
10x Infantry Squad - Autocannon
10x Infantry Squad - Autocannon
10x Infantry Squad - Flamer
Vendetta - Heavy Bolter Sponsoons
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missiles
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missiles
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missiles
Razorback - TL-Lascannons
Thoughts: Wow! Death by volume. While Phil does not have a lot of AP2 weaponry, his volume of attacks is a big concern to my zombies. That and Jaws against Typhus. If my opponent knows what he is doing, his army has the potential to really dominate mine, perhaps even tabling it. That list is nasty! Fortunately for me, I've been playing horde Space Wolves recently as well and know the strengths and weaknesses of both armies. My experience may be the edge I need to pull off a victory here. However, I have no idea what type of general my opponent is....
3 dreadknight flamers and the firepower of the razorbacks will obliterate zombies. Abbadon is the only issue for him, typhus is almost an autokill for Mordrak or the Knights.
Marines Tau: Win
Oblits will take out those vindies then you can just move on with the horde and drown them in bodies. Helldrake to burn things out of cover and Vector strike things on the bastion.
Space Wolves Guard: Win
the list could be much stronger, no fearless blob so i think you take this one, zombies beat imperial guard in hth, Oblits can take out those long fangs, helldrake will be gold.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/20 18:44:53
You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things
the list could be much stronger, no fearless blob so i think you take this one, zombies beat imperial guard in hth, Oblits can take out those long fangs, helldrake will be gold.
You don't know how good an IG blob is with ATSKNF. Put a space marine IC in there and now they can flee from combat, auto-regroup and then light you up next turn with FRF!SRF! flashlights. Then let you assault again, break them and shoot you again. They cannot be swept due to ATSKNF. It's much, much better than a fearless or stubborn blob.
the list could be much stronger, no fearless blob so i think you take this one, zombies beat imperial guard in hth, Oblits can take out those long fangs, helldrake will be gold.
You don't know how good an IG blob is with ATSKNF. Put a space marine IC in there and now they can flee from combat, auto-regroup and then light you up next turn with FRF!SRF! flashlights. Then let you assault again, break them and shoot you again. They cannot be swept due to ATSKNF. It's much, much better than a fearless or stubborn blob.
+1 That list is actually really really good. Too many bodies for you chaos list to grind down so I think this will come down to mission parameters and how good he was as you said. Didn't I suggest squeezing a second turkey into your list
The grey knights actually look to have the FP to do some damage but you can actually play the range game alright against him by tanking shots with your two terminator lords and using the oblits and turkey to crack his rides.
Kinsley also has a lot of good weapons for dealing with your zombies, over all I think you were delt a good roster of opponents with hard armies. Must have been a blast!
These look like brilliant match-ups Jim. Can't wait to see how you did.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
The CSM list you brought is unconventional and while it has a large number of wounds it really relies on its special characters to do the heavy lifting. It is also really slow, so it is hard to say who won the games without knowing the missions. Just based on the ability to inflict damage on your army...
Coteaze/Mordrak GK - this is an alpha strike style army with the releporters and Mordrak DS'ing in. I think he is probably going to wreck you by rolling up a flank relatively unmolested. Mordraks unit is the second part of a 1 - 2 dreadknight punch. Henchmen require you to assault them twice in most cases to take them down (once to kill the vehicle, once to kill the squad).
:: Victory GK
SM/Tau - I think you win this one narrowly. he does not have the volume of fire to take you out - even with his templates. The Obliterators play a key role here taking down the Vindicators while the Spawn hit the lines first to tie up his Fire Warriors and the Zombies pile on to finish them off.
:: Victory CSM
SW/IG - Too much small arms fire! You get stuck in but not until too late. The blob holds up Abaddon and Typhus by sacrificing leaders to them while the wolves shred the rest of the troops. Long Fangs first take down the Spawn and then start working on the obliterators. I also predict Abaddon Spawns himself from the Chaos Boon table in this one!
::Victor SW/IG
You end up losing 2, but have a good time with a quirky fun and unexpected list. That is my take at least, especially if you are skipping the AFC divisional game to write the first report.
calypso2ts wrote: The CSM list you brought is unconventional and while it has a large number of wounds it really relies on its special characters to do the heavy lifting. It is also really slow, so it is hard to say who won the games without knowing the missions. Just based on the ability to inflict damage on your army...
True. It is not a balanced list with actually very little shooting and very low mobility (my main guys can't even run!). Hence I consider it more of a "fun" list than a competitive one. But it will be funny to see my opponents throw their arm up in futility trying to kill all those zombies. Lol.
I also predict Abaddon Spawns himself from the Chaos Boon table in this one!
Lol...such is the way of Chaos.
Ub3rb3n wrote: do your chaos list, i just played and it was so fun ended up going 3-1 in the tourney lost to a eldar tau combo
Congrats! The list is actually quite fun and will surprise some people. It is actually better than it looks on paper...which isn't actually saying much.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/21 14:41:27
Very interested to read your reports and see how you did. I have been playing around with a Zombie list too but I'm using a Nurgle Lord with Burning Brand and Biker squad in place of Abbie and the Spawn. They basically die first turn every game but they keep the heat off the zombies for a bit. What does Abbie do for your list? The Heldrake is pure gold and I run him in my list as well. After seeing how he did vs. MEQ and then having the FAQ make him even better... I need another one!
Go go reports, hope to read one tonight after work.
7K Points of Black Legion and Daemons 5K Points of Grey Knights and Red Hunters
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword, Personal Teleporter
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword, Personal Teleporter
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword, Personal Teleporter
PRE-GAME THOUGHTS: This army may give me problems. If he plays aggressively - shunt all 3 dreadknights and drop Mordrak in my deployment zone on Turn 1 - and goes after one of my flanks, I may be in trouble. The problem with this is that I can't react fast enough to deal with all 4 threats. He can potentially keep me contained in my own deployment zone while his shooty troops just hang out by his objectives. Even if I kill all his threats, it will take a while and I may end up out of position relative to my objectives. That's all he really has to do to win this....just keep my units "distracted" trying to kill his and win on objectives. I will get First Blood. However, if any of his "threats" survive, then he will get Linebreaker. Also, my oblits may be too pre-occupied with his "threats" to really deal with his transports. Thus, my heldrake will probably not have many targets on the turn that it comes in, other than to fire at vehicles.
Overall, I think this is going to be a tough fight for my Chaos against a really good GK list.
GK deployment. For his Warlord trait, he gets a scoring Mordrak. Also, for Grand Strategy, he gets 1 scoring dreadknight.
Hot damn! He's got 8 scoring units. I've got 7 scoring units because of the Scouring. However, my helturkey and chaos spawn are worth Victory Points as well if killed.
For his psychic powers, Coteaz gets Prescience and Foreboding.
Typhus gets Gift of Contagion and Plague Wind.
My deployment. I string and spread out my zombies to minimize the impact of those heavy incinerators. I deploy 2 10-man zombie units along my board edge and leave 1 in reserves. Finally, I centralize my characters and oblits so that if my opponent were to refuse flank me, I would be able to react better.
We then flip over the objectives. Fortunately for me, I get the 4, 3 and 2-pt objectives whereas my opponent gets the 3, 2 and 1-pt objectives. So now I know my opponent is definitely going to be coming towards me.
My opponent is weary of both of my HQ's. He shunts 1 dreadknight into the ruins (on my right flank) both to try to get 4+ cover and to get away from either of my HQ's. He also drops Mordrak in the vicinity. Dreadknight fails both his dangerous terrain test as well as his armor save to take 1W.
The rest of his army moves forward 6". Dreadknights move laterally to my right.
Heavy incinerator and shooting from his tanks kill 8 zombies from Abaddon's unit.
He also manages to wound Abaddon's unit 3 times. I decide not to Look-Out-Sir! on them....and then proceed to fail all 3 saves for my Warlord!
Not a very good start for me....
Chaos 1
Spoiler:
Chaos movement. Everyone shifts to the right.
My plan is to tarpit Mordrak's unit with spawns and zombies and to kill off his dreadknight with Abaddon.
I then fire plasma cannons from the farther oblit squad at Mordrak's unit and twin-linked double-tap plasmas at his dreadknight. Mordrak only loses 1 ghost knight thanks to Stealth and the dreadknight only takes 1W thanks to 4+ cover from the ruins (to 2 of my oblits anyways).
Charge! I challenge his dreadknight with my zombie champion which he promptly squishes. Abaddon will fight next turn.
Spawns and zombies would kill 2 ghost knights and lose 2 zombies. I forget to challenge with my zombie leader.
Grey Knights 2
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 2.
Now that Abaddon is locked in combat, my opponent begins to play more aggressively. He shunts both dreadknights right up in my face. His tanks advance slightly.
Shooting kills 9 zombies and puts 2W on my man, Typhus.
He also puts 1W on an oblit.
In assault, we have a slight rules dispute with regards to challenges. I was under the impression that you can issue another challenge in combat after a challenge has been resolved. He said that there can only be 1 challenge per combat. I give in because I didn't want to spend too much time trying to find the rules in the book. In any case, it's better for Abaddon if he's not in a challenge and he kills the dreadknight with his daemon weapon (wounded 3 times and my opponent failed 2 invulns). I get First Blood just as I expected.
In the other combat, Mordrak insta-kills 3 spawns with his daemonhammer!
Chaos 2
Spoiler:
Chaos movement. Zombies come in.
So does my heldrake. Here we have another rules dispute. I'm pretty sure Coteaz cannot use I've Been Expecting You from within a transport. The very same thing happened to me at the Golden Throne. However, during the game, I just couldn't find that rule in the rulebook (after searching for 2 minutes, I gave up). Thus, his unit shot twin-linked (from Prescience) plasmas into the rear of my dragon.
He immobilizes my dragon, but not before I weapon destroy and shake/stun his chimera with my vector strike (I did 2 Hull Points of damage).
My helturkey then flames and wrecks it.
Notice anything missing? That's right, both dreadknights are gone. Typhus fires his Plague Wind and oblits fire TL-plasmas and TL-meltaguns. My opponent would then proceed to fail almost all his invulns!!! I did not even have to assault to finish them off!
In combat, Mordrak finishes off the spawns. The grey knights also get +1 VP for killing one of my Fast Attacks.
Grey Knights 3
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 3.
After losing all 3 dreadknights, my opponent is now in a heap of trouble.
His vehicles shuffle around.
He continues to focus on Typhus and kills another 8 zombies as I LOS almost all the damage to them.
A couple of tanks fire at Abaddon's unit and I LOS to the zombies, killing 2.
In assault, I am down to 2 zombies only.
Chaos 3
Spoiler:
Zombies go hide behind the ruins and in range of an objective. Abaddon breaks off from them to go after Mordrak. Oblits advance.
Zombies scramble after objectives. Typhus joins the oblits as they advance.
Heldrake flies off the board Abaddon runs.
Oblits take off 2 HP's from the assback (razorback w/assault cannons) and shake it.
Either we forget about the Mordrak combat or he whiffs big time against 2 zombies.
Grey Knights 4
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 4.
Assback drops off his troops on the left objective and then moves to screen them out.
Vehicles shuffle around.
Shooting kills 2 oblits and puts another 1W on Typhus.
He tries to shoot down Abaddon all by himself and with only 1W left....but Abaddon survives.
Mordrak finishes off the 2 zombies in assault.
Chaos 4
Spoiler:
My birdie comes in hot and kills the assback with its Vector Strike.
Zombies reach the objectives. Typhus joins the unit of fresh (3-man) oblits.
Abaddon goes after his Warlord.
Oblits wipe out Coteaz and his plasma henchmen with twin-linked plasmas.
Heldrake wipes out his 3-man henchmen unit on an objective with its baleflamer.
Abaddon shoots down the ghost knight with his combi-bolter. He then charges Mordrak.
Mordrak didn't stand a chance. I get the enemy Warlord.
We stop the game here.
Aftermath of the battle.
I get 3 objectives (4+3+2VP's), First Blood and Warlord. I don't believe my opponent has an objective currently, though he does get 1VP for killing my spawns.
Crushing Victory by the Forces of Chaos!!!
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/01/21 22:58:17
Square bases at a 40k event? HERESY! Looking forward to seeing the results on this one.
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.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
Thousand Sons 4000+
7K Points of Black Legion and Daemons 
5K Points of Grey Knights and Red Hunters 
