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As has been said already, there is no range sniping in 6th. That's 4E mentality. That sergeant would be dead if you just placed your unit for him to be the closest model. And after he dies you allocate wounds to the rest of his unit.

Yes, that does seem an odd change to make. Almost makes you wonder if they understood they have essenitally errata'd Out of Range, as this is not a FAQ but a literal change to the rules.

 Cheexsta wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
I don't think the heavy weapon example works. It says shooting models not the unit and since the pool is emptied group by group does that mean that you look at the group of bolter rounds and use them up until you hit max range and then move to the heavy weapon wounds and repeat?

Also how does this work with rapid fire? Do you just ignore the fact you just killed to a range beyond 12" and continue using up the rest of the bolter rounds?

It actually says "not within range [of] any of the shooting models". If a model with a longer range weapon is shooting, then more target models will fill that requirement.

It's a bit of a messy ruling.

I agree its a terrible ruling because it goes against what the rulebook actually says and on top of that makes the situation even more confusing IMHO. It also adds a further 'gamey' feel in that you want to have one long ranged weapon in the unit just to allow you to max your casualty range out.

 yakface wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
I don't think the heavy weapon example works. It says shooting models not the unit and since the pool is emptied group by group does that mean that you look at the group of bolter rounds and use them up until you hit max range and then move to the heavy weapon wounds and repeat?

Also how does this work with rapid fire? Do you just ignore the fact you just killed to a range beyond 12" and continue using up the rest of the bolter rounds?

Per the FAQ, all that matters are the models in the unit being shot at that are completely out of range of all firing weapons when 'to hit' rolls were made.

That's not what it says. It may be the reading we are meant to take but shooting model is different to models that have shot since we use a sequential method of using up the wound pools wound types.

When making a Shooting attackagainst a unit, can Wounds from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e. half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half are not)? (p15)

It says the shooting models.
Here is an example I have 12 chaos marines, 6 have plasma pistols and 6 have bolters. When I am emptying the wounds from the plasma pistols who are the shooting models? In my mind that is the pistols, when the nearest model is more than 12" from any of the plasma pistol marines the rest of the plasma wounds get tossed. Next we go through the bolter rounds, these can keep going until 24".

Except it says from *any* of the shooting models.

WOund pools can also contain very different range weaponry in them - a plasma pistol and plasma cannon will both populate the same pool, for example.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Except it says from *any* of the shooting models.

WOund pools can also contain very different range weaponry in them - a plasma pistol and plasma cannon will both populate the same pool, for example.

Actually all wounds occupy the same pool and are grouped by strength and Ap.
This wouldn't be the first faq that makes things more complicated.

yakface wrote:I agree its a terrible ruling because it goes against what the rulebook actually says and on top of that makes the situation even more confusing IMHO. It also adds a further 'gamey' feel in that you want to have one long ranged weapon in the unit just to allow you to max your casualty range out.

Thankfully, GW has provided an email address for FAQ issues, so if they get a few emails from people about it then it may well change in the future:

Gamefaqs@gwplc.com

I encourage anyone who has an issue with this or any other question to email them about it.

liturgies of blood wrote:

When making a Shooting attackagainst a unit, can Wounds from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e. half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half are not)? (p15)

It says the shooting models.
Here is an example I have 12 chaos marines, 6 have plasma pistols and 6 have bolters. When I am emptying the wounds from the plasma pistols who are the shooting models? In my mind that is the pistols, when the nearest model is more than 12" from any of the plasma pistol marines the rest of the plasma wounds get tossed. Next we go through the bolter rounds, these can keep going until 24".

The problem is the word any. The ruling does not restrict itself to "any models within the same group of weapons within that wound pool"; it literally just says any of the shooting models. That heavy weapon trooper is a firing model within the unit, so satisfies the rule.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Except it says from *any* of the shooting models.

WOund pools can also contain very different range weaponry in them - a plasma pistol and plasma cannon will both populate the same pool, for example.

Actually all wounds occupy the same pool and are grouped by strength and Ap.

The wound pool is all the wounds caused by a single round of shooting. Within that pool you will have groups of wounds with different APs.

All that matters is if models in the target unit are within range of ANY of the shooting models (models in the unit that shot).

rigeld2 wrote:

 Drunkspleen wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
So range and LOS sniping is in.
As a Nid this makes me happy because I rarely have specific models I'm trying to protect.
As a player in general this makes me sad.

I'm not sure why you mention range sniping.

Your opponent already had to pull his models from the front first, you can't force him to pull them any more closer to the front by being out of range of half the unit...

I guess that's true...


On another note - Blessings can be used the turn you arrive from Reserves.
Iron Arm Doom just got significantly deadlier.

Really? how?

It says outflank and reserve rolls, so thats when rolling for a 3 plus to see if they come on, not the scatter dice or movement from reserve.

 yakface wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Except it says from *any* of the shooting models.

WOund pools can also contain very different range weaponry in them - a plasma pistol and plasma cannon will both populate the same pool, for example.

Actually all wounds occupy the same pool and are grouped by strength and Ap.

The wound pool is all the wounds caused by a single round of shooting. Within that pool you will have groups of wounds with different APs.

All that matters is if models in the target unit are within range of ANY of the shooting models (models in the unit that shot).

I disagree, it may be changed or clarified in the next round of faqs as this will create war. One guard blob with a rune priest with unlimited range living lightening can apply wounds all the way to the back of a mob of boys as the priest has the range.

I do think it is not RAI that a missile launcher maxes out your bolter range and that interpretation will be abused to no ends.

Why would it be "abused", when that was already the rule as per page 16?

All they have done is make you keep track of max range within a unit now, as opposed to the simpler "am I in range of the unit" test you needed to pass previously.

Seems an un-needed change, especially when it really should be an errata.

 yakface wrote:

 Briancj wrote:
Remember, wounds from different ap weapons form SEPARATE wound pools.

That is incorrect. They form different groups within the pool.

Just looked it up, ugh. I guess the key phrase, here, is:

"As long as a model was in range of the enemy when To Hit rolls were made..."

Bad FAQ. Bad. No cookie.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Why would it be "abused", when that was already the rule as per page 16?

All they have done is make you keep track of max range within a unit now, as opposed to the simpler "am I in range of the unit" test you needed to pass previously.

Seems an un-needed change, especially when it really should be an errata.

Because this faq is a bit of a game changer, page 16 doesn't matter any more this faq has re-written that paragraph. Previously you just had to be in range, now you have to remain in range.
Short range units will have to be closer to the enemy to deal the same kind of damage.

Yes, but that isnt "abuse" so much as you are just following the actual rule, not the FAQ answer.

I do hate it when they rule something the exact opposite to the clearly written rule, for no seeming reason. The prior system was a nice simple abstract, now we STILL have an abstract (as one 24" range weapon can make a unit of bolt pistols wound models 13" away) just a more complicated and ugly one.

It would make more sense, IMHO, to resolve wounds by range groups.

And we could look at rapid fire weapons in a different light. Instead of saying 2 shots up to half range OR 1 shot up to max range, say 1 shot up to half range AND 1 shot up to max range.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes, but that isnt "abuse" so much as you are just following the actual rule, not the FAQ answer.

I do hate it when they rule something the exact opposite to the clearly written rule, for no seeming reason. The prior system was a nice simple abstract, now we STILL have an abstract (as one 24" range weapon can make a unit of bolt pistols wound models 13" away) just a more complicated and ugly one.

Well it does make certain things look ridiculous. I can wound all the way to the end of a conga line of ork boys that crosses the board cos I have an attacked rune priest with living lightening in a blob of guard. You can't as you only have a rune priest with JOTWW.

 Redemption wrote:
I don't get the range-sniping argument. How exactly would one take advantage of not being able to hurt something that's out of range?

I didn't present the range-sniping argument as such. I worry about a general development.
I fully realize that with 6th editions rules for removing models range-sniping is not really a separate issue.

MarkyMark wrote:
Really? how?

It says outflank and reserve rolls, so thats when rolling for a 3 plus to see if they come on, not the scatter dice or movement from reserve.

Responded in the other thread.

I think the intent is to separate your ranges in the wound pool. Let the 5 bolters wound until models are out of range then switch to your missile. Basically just being smart about allocation.

It does seem rather strange, and a bit more than a simple abstraction of reality for the sake of the game.

Say I have a unit armed with a lot of Plasma Pistols.
The problem in this scenario is that ALL the Plasma Pistols can only reach/hit/wound/kill the closest model in the target unit because the target unit is placed in a triangular shape.

So I can only ever kill one model.

But here is the kicker! I forgot I had joined a IC to the unit.
That IC also have a Plasma Pistol, but crucially he is also armed with a Boltgun.

Assuming I haven't moved the Plasma Pistol-unit firing the Bolt Gun "extends" the range of the Plasma Pistols allowing me to wound lots of targets with my Plasma Pistols.

Seems a bit too much like GW just haven't thought the situation through



.

Half are in and half are not. Very clear.

Steel - -remember you can still fire at 24" after moving with a Bolter. CHange from 5th and previous.

Storm - then actually say that then. I dont think that is the intent at all - perssonally I dont think they actually intended this, they were just trying to answer the quewstions people who mix up subjectbject in the p16 rule have

 yakface wrote:

Looks like a pretty big change overall!

Yeah. No more magic bullets. Combine this with 6th edition's general prohibition of not being able to wound models that are not in LOS and it looks like we are returning to 3rd and 4th edition's ability to hide and protect models.

Well, no, the magic bullets are still ther, they need to be carried by a krak missile / heavy bolter / etc instead.

Yeah it's full of typos but it's clear. Any shooting models, not talking about weapons. Even if we were talking about weapons it would be done by AP not range since you can't split up the pool. The entire squad (that are in range of the unit) are shooting models. Yes this sucks for Burnaboys and hey they also nerfted flamers a little bit! well until you include a herald.

Side note about templates, it just says in range, not under the template so when measuring range it's pretty much an 8 inch radius (disregarding torrent)

This doesn't present any offensive advantages, only some defensive options.

copper.talos wrote:

Enceladus wrote:
beware the Vindicare and any character due to Precise Shots allowing the rolling player to allocate wounds to whichever model he wants!

Any character? I think it's just the Vindi.

Not true, i'm afraid. See the Precise Shots and Precise Strikes entry in the BRB. It states any character that rolls 6's to hit in either shooting or CC can allocate the wounds as he sees fit.

Actually, wait are people saying that it's jsut the models that shot?
So if my missile launcher missed I can still wound further than the 24" on my bolters?

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Actually, wait are people saying that it's jsut the models that shot?
So if my missile launcher missed I can still wound further than the 24" on my bolters?

Yes, it is just those that shot, not those that hit

As I said, completely idiotic, ugly change to the rules that creates more complication and MORE abstraction, not less.

I don't see how templates or blasts change from this. Considering it says when rolling to hit I don't think I ever rolled to hit with my flamers or blasts. Place them maybe, scatter them most definetly but never roll to hit. =p

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Actually, wait are people saying that it's jsut the models that shot?
So if my missile launcher missed I can still wound further than the 24" on my bolters?

Yes, it is just those that shot, not those that hit

As I said, completely idiotic, ugly change to the rules that creates more complication and MORE abstraction, not less.

fething slowed.
I assumed since it talks about the wound pool it was talking about shooters that hit.