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Well, assuming you only have 1 weapon for the unit, it does.

It still makes the gap smaller in order to threaten the entire unit, originally you just had to be within 48" of the first model now you have to be within 48" - distance of the furthest model

olcottr wrote:

FenixZero wrote:

clively wrote:

Consider this situation:
You have 5 Flamer guys shoot at the enemy. All 5 templates only cover this one lone guy out front and none of the other enemies are under the template. Let's say all wound and all 5 saves are failed. Previously this meant 5 dead enemy models, now it means 1 as the others are out of range of the template.

Now because the flamers have another weapon which has an 18" reach, if one of those are fired it is added to the wound pool and instead of 1 dead guy from the flamers you have now extended their reach and you could kill 5.

But templates don't roll to hit, making them exempt from the FAQ changes, which didn't affect them before.

Not quite. The FAQ says "when rolling to Hit" meaning during that part of the Shooting Phase. That flamer hits are resolved differently does not give them immunity.

From BRB p 52, Instead of rolling To Hit, simply place the template so that its narrow end is touching the
base of the firing model and the rest of the template covers as
many models in the target unit as possible, without touching
any other friendly models (including other models from the
firing model's unit). Ary rnodels fully or partially under the
template are hit.

Yea, and that means that wounds can overflow from the models that were hit to other models in the unit. Thats how I read the rule from the BRB in light of the FAQ.

I'm pretty sure before the FAQ you could only kill what was in range of your weapons, including flamers. I remember looking that up and having it save half my Warp Spiders.

If anything, this buffs Flamers of Tzeentch, since now as long as one of them uses Warpfire, the effective range of Breath of Chaos is bigger in terms of what they can kill, but not what they can hit.

Let's say you have a two-model unit. One with a Plasma Pistol, the other with a Plasma Gun. If the model with the Plasma Gun dies from Gets Hot!, does the Plasma Pistol lose the ability to Wound a model over 12" away? Assuming all other criteria was met.

Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.

I don't see how this does anything to flamers. When is the last time you "rolled" to hit with templates? It also refers to shooting "models" range, not unit. So magic 48" bolter fire is still impossible.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
This is a bit of a boost to assault based units. Shooting units will need to get a bit closer in order to maximize their shooting, rather than form a gun-line at the minimum distance possible to be in range of the targeted unit.

Unless they have an autocannon, lascannon, missile launcher, heavy bolter etc...

No you are still required to get a tad bit closer in order to reach the farthest guy in the unit meaning that overall makes the distance between assault and shooty untis closer

It really does not.

Say you have a unit of Tac marines with bolters. Before you could be within 24 inches of one guy and kill the whole unit. Now you need to be within 24 inches of every model that you want to kill for them to be able to doe.

However if you have a missile launcher in the unit with 9 tac marines with bolters then the bolters only need to be within 24 inches of one guy to be able to kill everone within 48 inches of the unit.

Therefore the distance is really not any closer.

It's not really a big change for Marine-esque units that have a heavy weapon. Although protecting that heavy weapon is slightly more important. It really effects big mobs of units which are hard to get into position in the first place to lay down shooting - things like large Termagant squads or Ork boy mobs. This FAQ ruling is going to shave precious inches off of those units range. I know it will definitely effect my Termagants who already have a pitiful 12".

 Drunkspleen wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
So range and LOS sniping is in.
As a Nid this makes me happy because I rarely have specific models I'm trying to protect.
As a player in general this makes me sad.

I'm not sure why you mention range sniping.

Your opponent already had to pull his models from the front first, you can't force him to pull them any more closer to the front by being out of range of half the unit...

Range sniping or Mirco sniping were things that were around in 4th

Basically you use to eyeball the range and put your models exactly in the right place to kill off certain models in the other squad, or you use tanks to block your own line of sight so that your plasma gun can only kill the heavy weapon in the other squad. Its even worse now with the fact we all can derp measure without penalty.

This also kills the Ork burna bus, a few months ago I almost made an army around that, Im glad I didnt otherwise I'd be losing my on GW.

 Goat wrote:
Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.

I don't see how this does anything to flamers. When is the last time you "rolled" to hit with templates? It also refers to shooting "models" range, not unit. So magic 48" bolter fire is still impossible.

It does something to flamers because they have a range of template, and instead of rolling to hit you place the template.

 yakface wrote:
The only thing the new ruling does is limit wounds he causes from being allocated onto models in the enemy unit that are out of range from ALL models that are shooting.

Yak said it best, but I will try to explain, as many people played it incorrectly before the FaQ.

How it worked before:



How it works now:

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
I'm pretty sure before the FAQ you could only kill what was in range of your weapons, including flamers. I remember looking that up and having it save half my Warp Spiders.

If anything, this buffs Flamers of Tzeentch, since now as long as one of them uses Warpfire, the effective range of Breath of Chaos is bigger in terms of what they can kill, but not what they can hit.

Nope, reread page 16 again, and get subjectbject the right way round this time.

 jegsar wrote:
Since when does GW care about un even changes. this also allows for crazy stuff like putting 3 havocs out of range of their havocs and leaving 1 in (assuming their non HW havocs are closwer to soak up wounds first. The one that is in of yours is he only HW that can die...

I guess they don't. And that's why I don't like this change.

Personally I preferred the way things were, and not because I'm bitter and afraid of change.
Yes, before you could just move 5 guys in range to one guy and call it a day. The thing is, everybody could do it and every unit was equally affected. Your 5 guys with 24" had to do exactly the same thing as your opponents guys with 24". Now 5 marines with bolters may not have the same effective range as another 5 marines with bolters, only because they are accompanied by some guy standing behind them.
More realistic? I disagree.

How do Blast weapons figure into this?

Let's take a Devastator Squad with a Plasma Cannon. Does having a Lascannon with it allow the Plasma Cannon to wound models between 36" and 48"?
Does having a Multi-melta with it allow the Multi-melta to wound models between 24" and 36"?

 Macok wrote:

 jegsar wrote:
Since when does GW care about un even changes. this also allows for crazy stuff like putting 3 havocs out of range of their havocs and leaving 1 in (assuming their non HW havocs are closwer to soak up wounds first. The one that is in of yours is he only HW that can die...

I guess they don't. And that's why I don't like this change.

Personally I preferred the way things were, and not because I'm bitter and afraid of change.
Yes, before you could just move 5 guys in range to one guy and call it a day. The thing is, everybody could do it and every unit was equally affected. Your 5 guys with 24" had to do exactly the same thing as your opponents guys with 24". Now 5 marines with bolters may not have the same effective range as another 5 marines with bolters, only because they are accompanied by some guy standing behind them.
More realistic? I disagree.

What are you talking about??
This is more realistic hands down.
Your guns can't reach hence can't hurt.
If some guy was standing further behind, the bullet is already slower and might start to deter making it less effective.
How is this not realistic?

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Drunkspleen wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
So range and LOS sniping is in.
As a Nid this makes me happy because I rarely have specific models I'm trying to protect.
As a player in general this makes me sad.

I'm not sure why you mention range sniping.

Your opponent already had to pull his models from the front first, you can't force him to pull them any more closer to the front by being out of range of half the unit...

Range sniping or Mirco sniping were things that were around in 4th

Basically you use to eyeball the range and put your models exactly in the right place to kill off certain models in the other squad, or you use tanks to block your own line of sight so that your plasma gun can only kill the heavy weapon in the other squad. Its even worse now with the fact we all can derp measure without penalty.

This also kills the Ork burna bus, a few months ago I almost made an army around that, Im glad I didnt otherwise I'd be losing my on GW.

well if you make one burna a mek and give him a big shoota, then you can wound everything in 36" if I'm reading this right.

 Makutsu wrote:

 Macok wrote:

 jegsar wrote:
Since when does GW care about un even changes. this also allows for crazy stuff like putting 3 havocs out of range of their havocs and leaving 1 in (assuming their non HW havocs are closwer to soak up wounds first. The one that is in of yours is he only HW that can die...

I guess they don't. And that's why I don't like this change.

Personally I preferred the way things were, and not because I'm bitter and afraid of change.
Yes, before you could just move 5 guys in range to one guy and call it a day. The thing is, everybody could do it and every unit was equally affected. Your 5 guys with 24" had to do exactly the same thing as your opponents guys with 24". Now 5 marines with bolters may not have the same effective range as another 5 marines with bolters, only because they are accompanied by some guy standing behind them.
More realistic? I disagree.

What are you talking about??
This is more realistic hands down.
Your guns can't reach hence can't hurt.
If some guy was standing further behind, the bullet is already slower and might start to deter making it less effective.
How is this not realistic?

Maybe this will help: 5 marines with bolters can wound models up to 24" away. 4 marines with bolters can wound models up to 48" away IF the 5th marine has a Missile Launcher.

olcottr wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:

 Macok wrote:

 jegsar wrote:
Since when does GW care about un even changes. this also allows for crazy stuff like putting 3 havocs out of range of their havocs and leaving 1 in (assuming their non HW havocs are closwer to soak up wounds first. The one that is in of yours is he only HW that can die...

I guess they don't. And that's why I don't like this change.

Personally I preferred the way things were, and not because I'm bitter and afraid of change.
Yes, before you could just move 5 guys in range to one guy and call it a day. The thing is, everybody could do it and every unit was equally affected. Your 5 guys with 24" had to do exactly the same thing as your opponents guys with 24". Now 5 marines with bolters may not have the same effective range as another 5 marines with bolters, only because they are accompanied by some guy standing behind them.
More realistic? I disagree.

What are you talking about??
This is more realistic hands down.
Your guns can't reach hence can't hurt.
If some guy was standing further behind, the bullet is already slower and might start to deter making it less effective.
How is this not realistic?

Maybe this will help: 5 marines with bolters can wound models up to 24" away. 4 marines with bolters can wound models up to 48" away IF the 5th marine has a Missile Launcher.

Those four bolters still have to be in range, though.

Neither this current FAQ approach or the old approach made much sense. To make sense, you'd have to track range in the Wound Pool and break down wounds into AP and Range categories and allocate them closest range to farthest. So that wounds can only be allocated within range of the firing model.

What about Torrent weapons?

Can I only allocate Wounds to models actually under the template? Or to models within 8" of the firing unit? Or to models within 12" + 8" of the firing unit?

Less realistic when you play a guy that will block out half your squad with a tank to kill your sgts, special weapons and commanders

rollawaythestone wrote:

olcottr wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:

 Macok wrote:

 jegsar wrote:
Since when does GW care about un even changes. this also allows for crazy stuff like putting 3 havocs out of range of their havocs and leaving 1 in (assuming their non HW havocs are closwer to soak up wounds first. The one that is in of yours is he only HW that can die...

I guess they don't. And that's why I don't like this change.

Personally I preferred the way things were, and not because I'm bitter and afraid of change.
Yes, before you could just move 5 guys in range to one guy and call it a day. The thing is, everybody could do it and every unit was equally affected. Your 5 guys with 24" had to do exactly the same thing as your opponents guys with 24". Now 5 marines with bolters may not have the same effective range as another 5 marines with bolters, only because they are accompanied by some guy standing behind them.
More realistic? I disagree.

What are you talking about??
This is more realistic hands down.
Your guns can't reach hence can't hurt.
If some guy was standing further behind, the bullet is already slower and might start to deter making it less effective.
How is this not realistic?

Maybe this will help: 5 marines with bolters can wound models up to 24" away. 4 marines with bolters can wound models up to 48" away IF the 5th marine has a Missile Launcher.

Those four bolters still have to be in range, though.

To the closest model. They can wound farther models in the same target unit, up to 24" in the first example and 48" in the second example.

sirlynchmob wrote:


well if you make one burna a mek and give him a big shoota, then you can wound everything in 36" if I'm reading this right.

It looks that way, but I have a feeling its model per model, which then would force you to apply wounds for certain weapons first or lose the wounds entirely, hmm.

I'm still not understanding how having a missile launcher allows bolters to wound deeper than 24". The FAQ says model not unit.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Goat wrote:
Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.

I don't see how this does anything to flamers. When is the last time you "rolled" to hit with templates? It also refers to shooting "models" range, not unit. So magic 48" bolter fire is still impossible.

It does something to flamers because they have a range of template, and instead of rolling to hit you place the template.

True, but template range =/= To Hit rolls. So it should still work like it did before, you get hits on an enemy unit with a template, cause wounds as normal, then the enemy unit takes a number of saves until the wound poll is empty, regard of distance from the template weapon.

Well, it's still more realistic than one guy in the front in range everybody behind him drops dead.

It could be that the 48" shoots and kills a guy in the back distracting them or blowing them forward so that guys with bolters can now hurt them.

FenixZero wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Goat wrote:
Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.

I don't see how this does anything to flamers. When is the last time you "rolled" to hit with templates? It also refers to shooting "models" range, not unit. So magic 48" bolter fire is still impossible.

It does something to flamers because they have a range of template, and instead of rolling to hit you place the template.

True, but template range =/= To Hit rolls. So it should still work like it did before, you get hits on an enemy unit with a template, cause wounds as normal, then the enemy unit takes a number of saves until the wound poll is empty, regard of distance from the template weapon.

Not true because the FaQ says you can only wound models in range. The range for a template is Template, so the furthest distance the template will reach is the limit of where the wounds may be allocated. Whe to hit rolls are made, well Templates place the template at that step, so figure out range from that.

 Makutsu wrote:
What are you talking about??
This is more realistic hands down.
Your guns can't reach hence can't hurt.
If some guy was standing further behind, the bullet is already slower and might start to deter making it less effective.
How is this not realistic?

And now your guns can't reach so they can't hurt. Except sometimes they can't reach but can hurt. Your opponent has the same guns, with the same range, but in fact, they are not the same and have different effective range. How is that realistic? It may be more realistic in some situations, but at the same it creates other strange scenarios.

OK, overall I guess it may seem more real, but not by a long shot. It does in units that do not have special / heavy weapons. Those are more often than not already weaker and rarer (especially in the short range department). This pushes them even more towards less useful. At least the earlier situation was more consistent from the abstract point of view and did not create weird interactions between weapons that should work separately.

I guess the rules are here to stay and me staying on this route will quickly change to whining (If I'm not already there.) so I'll just stop. Still, I am disappoint.

 Goat wrote:
I'm still not understanding how having a missile launcher allows bolters to wound deeper than 24". The FAQ says model not unit.

Because model with missile launcher is the "any model" from unit A that is in the range to enemy models in unit B that now can be allocated wounds from all the A models.

 Goat wrote:
I'm still not understanding how having a missile launcher allows bolters to wound deeper than 24". The FAQ says model not unit.

Actually, it says models, plural, as in you take into account every model that is firing. So any models that can fire in the first place, as in 1 enemy model is close enough, can also wound other models if other firing models have longer ranged weapons.

 Makutsu wrote:
Well, it's still more realistic than one guy in the front in range everybody behind him drops dead.

It could be that the 48" shoots and kills a guy in the back distracting them or blowing them forward so that guys with bolters can now hurt them.

I wouldnt worry about applying realism to a game with guys with giant hydralic hands fighting space bugs and fugus people.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
Well, it's still more realistic than one guy in the front in range everybody behind him drops dead.

It could be that the 48" shoots and kills a guy in the back distracting them or blowing them forward so that guys with bolters can now hurt them.

I wouldnt worry about applying realism to a game with guys with giant hydralic hands fighting space bugs and fugus people.

Basically, well someone was commenting on it so yeah

 DeathReaper wrote:

FenixZero wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Goat wrote:
Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.

I don't see how this does anything to flamers. When is the last time you "rolled" to hit with templates? It also refers to shooting "models" range, not unit. So magic 48" bolter fire is still impossible.

It does something to flamers because they have a range of template, and instead of rolling to hit you place the template.

True, but template range =/= To Hit rolls. So it should still work like it did before, you get hits on an enemy unit with a template, cause wounds as normal, then the enemy unit takes a number of saves until the wound poll is empty, regard of distance from the template weapon.

Not true because the FaQ says you can only wound models in range. The range for a template is Template, so the furthest distance the template will reach is the limit of where the wounds may be allocated. Whe to hit rolls are made, well Templates place the template at that step, so figure out range from that.

No, it says that for wounds in the wound pool 'when To Hit rolls were made'. You don't make 'To Hit' rolls with Templates, as such it is exempt from the new FAQ ruling.

Let's see, to figure out the Threat Range of your firing unit, you basically have to determine which enemy model is at the max range of each of your firing models. Sounds like a lot of work for a Vet Squad that could conceivably have 5 different ranges (Template, 12", 24", 36", 48")

No, you only have to work out ANY of the shooting models are in range. Hence "ANY" and "Shooting Models"

If ONE model is in range to all of the enemy, you can kill all of the enemy