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The Chaos Chariot and Dragon Ogres look pretty awesome, as does Vilitch. The Chaos Lord is a little generic for the price IMO, and the Forsaken underwhelm me.

The Slaughterbrute is an interesting case-- The normal model looks rather silly, but the tentacle-face version is awesome. I'd avoid the Forsaken models and use spare bitz from this guy to convert my own if I were starting up Warriors of Chaos.

i had a look at the sprue pics of the Forsaken, and some of the bits (heads and arms) look incredible...
the complete minis don't look good though...
strange...

i think the plastic Lord will find it's way onto my painting table one day...
at 25% off, he's a reasonable price...

i really like the sculpts for Throgg and Vilitch...
too bad they are Finecast...

the chariot, i could see painting for competition, as it's pretty cool...

not really in a rush to get anything now, where i used to be all about the new releases...
nothing really screams, "i must have you now" these days...

it's not like most of us don't already have a massive mountain of minis we should be busy painting, right now...

cheers
jah

the only thing that screams must have is the chariot. The other stuff I can wait a bit until my backlog is shorter. I only say the chariot is a must have is because I need chariots in my forces. I do want the Dragon Ogres though. I just need to decide whether they will be armed with 2 weapons or a great weapon. Need to see the new stat line to decide. The models are fantastic though...

Yeah, not a whole lot to entice me to more WoC purchases here. The Chariot is the closest thing, but it doesn't grab me enough to say it's something I must buy. While I'm obviously not the target demographic for GW anymore, it is odd that since October I'be bought very few GW products. Some of it is the ridiculous pricing, but more of it is just that their models are less and less "I want these on the table" anymore. I don't really know that it's any one thing, but in days of yore I'd buy more GW stuff in a single weekend than I've bought in the last 4 months and probably going on five months unless the Chariot wows me when I have it in hand.

Again, I know I'm not GW's target, but it's just a sad feeling for me.

SO I was really interesting in painting some of these models. Went on the website today to check pricing and

$85 for a single monster!?! $50 or even $60 I can understand but $85. What did they make the master molds out of, solid gold? And the Troll King single fine cast mini is $60. feth it, back to painting orks.

I agree on the prices are a bit steep, sad thing is that I lovey chaos monster army, so at some point I will buy these things, but not direct, I will get them from the 25% discount stores that are around

wow. I really didn't realize quite how expensive these new releases actually are! The ones that hit my particularly was actually the Chaos Lord, and Throgg. £36 for a monster sized special character is a bit steep I think. The Chaos Lord I'm also surprised about, I imagined he'd have cost around the region of the other plastic heroes, about £8 - £9. £15? I think that makes it difficult to justify the price. It's a shame really because the two mentioned sculpts are really nice. Just not 50% more than I'd realistically spend nice.

Yeah, GW's pricing is outrageous!

I talked to a red shirt and he thinks the price increase stems from charge increase in shipping.

 SabrX wrote:
Yeah, GW's pricing is outrageous!

I talked to a red shirt and he thinks the price increase stems from charge increase in shipping.

Red shirts will never give a strait answer though. The DA release was just as bad and that happened well before that, and the Au/UK/europe/etc prices are going up too, the mailing increase is a US only thing right?

I think what we are seeing is an early preview of the price increases hitting this year.

Consider the following:

The Empire army book is hardbound 96 pages at $45.50; the WoC book is the exact same yet it is $49.50 (also, GW has said many times that WoC is the most popular army.

The Space Marine Commander (a single, foot plastic kit) is $22.25 yet the new Chaos Lord is $25.

The Land Raider is $74.25 and the new Monster is $85.


I am convinced at this point that management at GW has completely lost all touch with reality. They are literally a year or two away from completely pricing themselves out of the market.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 SabrX wrote:
I talked to a red shirt and he thinks the price increase stems from charge increase in shipping.

Red shirts will never give a strait answer though. The DA release was just as bad and that happened well before that, and the Au/UK/europe/etc prices are going up too, the mailing increase is a US only thing right?

The shipping increase is US only. It also doesn't affect GW as they have been using UPS/FedEx for quite some time now and those companies didn't change their rates.

Wayshuba wrote:
They are literally a year or two away from completely pricing themselves out of the market.

I think, this started in December with the Hobbit, then DA, WoC and the rest following in April.
No new customers starting, the rest just buying the Codex/army book and at best one flyer/monster.

 Kroothawk wrote:

Wayshuba wrote:
They are literally a year or two away from completely pricing themselves out of the market.

I think, this started in December with the Hobbit, then DA, WoC and the rest following in April.
No new customers starting, the rest just buying the Codex/army book and at best one flyer/monster.

Exactly, if the prices werent this bad I would have snapped up multiple stuff but I have only bought the chariot. Well done GW

I like the plastic Chaos Lord, as I've been liking the plastic infantry characters that have been released. But 20€ is a fething stupid price. I'd rather spend 27€ on 5 more Chaos Knights.

And plastic Chaos Knights were like 19€ when they came out...

I'll buy the book, and with time I'll buy the chariot and the Dragon Ogres. I don't give a gak about the other stuff.

 Kroothawk wrote:

Wayshuba wrote:
They are literally a year or two away from completely pricing themselves out of the market.

I think, this started in December with the Hobbit, then DA, WoC and the rest following in April.
No new customers starting, the rest just buying the Codex/army book and at best one flyer/monster.

So wait, you think GW has already priced themselves out? Why can I go to my local shop and see many people with new CSM and DA armies, then?

Despite all my bashing of people like you Kingsley, I have to admit that I've never taken the time to ask this question:

What does the Kool-Aid actually taste like?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Despite all my bashing of people like you Kingsley, I have to admit that I've never taken the time to ask this question:

What does the Kool-Aid actually taste like?

H.B.M.C. wrote:It's far easier to simply attack your opponent than attack any particular points they raise. "You're just a hater" is the Internet equivalent of "You're a racist!". Once you've said it you don't have to come up with a cogent (or even a coherent) thought. It's a get out of jail free cards for people who cannot think for themselves."

Calling someone a Kool-Aid drinker without engaging with their argument is exactly the same as calling them a hater without engaging with their argument.


Back on topic, if you think that some models are unreasonably expensive, the obvious solution is simply to not buy those models. If enough people think that the models are too expensive and don't buy them, GW won't gain money from price increases and will stop conducting them. The important part of this, however, is not the complaining but the not buying. If you complain and buy anyway, GW will laugh all the way to the bank. Similarly, if you stop buying but it turns out that you're in the minority and most people are fine with the new prices, GW will go right on raising prices to whatever the market can bear.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Despite all my bashing of people like you Kingsley, I have to admit that I've never taken the time to ask this question:

What does the Kool-Aid actually taste like?

Yes, you do plenty of bashing because you are an archetypical internet tough guy. What makes you think its acceptable to constantly and endlessly give people gak in the manner that you do because they don't share your childlike loathing for a PLC?

As I've said many times, its typical of you and its cringeworthy for a grown man. Id love to see you high-five Phantom Viper and snigger if you were having this discussion at a pub and he was three feet from you, the lad would probably boot you all the way to the infirmary, and frankly you would entirely deserve it. You can voice your (perfectly acceptable as I agree with them half the time) criticisms of GW without trying to snigger and rip the piss out of other people because they don't share your sentiment, most of them being kids or teenagers who have only just stepped into the hobby.

On topic, the prices are truly fething outrageous, the troll hero being possibly the most ridiculous i've seen the last 12 months.

And its been a wacky 12 months!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kingsley wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Despite all my bashing of people like you Kingsley, I have to admit that I've never taken the time to ask this question:

What does the Kool-Aid actually taste like?

H.B.M.C. wrote:It's far easier to simply attack your opponent than attack any particular points they raise. "You're just a hater" is the Internet equivalent of "You're a racist!". Once you've said it you don't have to come up with a cogent (or even a coherent) thought. It's a get out of jail free cards for people who cannot think for themselves."

Calling someone a Kool-Aid drinker without engaging with their argument is exactly the same as calling them a hater without engaging with their argument.


Back on topic, if you think that some models are unreasonably expensive, the obvious solution is simply to not buy those models. If enough people think that the models are too expensive and don't buy them, GW won't gain money from price increases and will stop conducting them. The important part of this, however, is not the complaining but the not buying. If you complain and buy anyway, GW will laugh all the way to the bank. Similarly, if you stop buying but it turns out that you're in the minority and most people are fine with the new prices, GW will go right on raising prices to whatever the market can bear.

True enough, as I said, I think that younger people are happier to pay the prices because they weren't around to see just how much cheaper it was a few years back. I can see your point, If you have a decent amount of income, then the hobby isn't THAT expensive because the models don't decompose. I've got a large SM army and its probably only cost me about £3-400 spread out over 4-5 years, so its not much at all really, but as I said.. It certainly is getting to the point where many older players aren't willing to pay that much because they remember getting 10 space marines and a vehicle for £30.

I'm one of them, Im not going anywhere near a single hero for £45, but I'm certainly glad that in these harsh economic times SOME people are still doing alright!

If we could avoid the arguing, name calling, etc etc and get back to the WoC release it'd make everyone's life much groovier.

Thank you.

 Kingsley wrote:
So wait, you think GW has already priced themselves out? Why can I go to my local shop and see many people with new CSM and DA armies, then?

Because they started with the starter set in September, half a year ago?
And yes, I think with the last three months they started to price themselves completely out, esp. when in April the other prices are adjusted to the new release prices. Granted, they had falling sales in the last 5 years (barely compensated by price hikes), but this 30/50/100% price hike is the turning point I am sure. Trying to raise prices faster than you lose customers, is not a sustainable business strategy. Even a yes-company will finally have to deal with reality.

Dang it, I've just converted all of my Trolls into MON Spawn for 40k. Now they go and release a troll king model.

****mutters, reaches for his wallet and heads back to GW to buy yet another 15 trolls****

I have studied pictures of Forsaken sprues closely and here is some tidbits that I have found out.

Arms come in two types: ball-and-socket and static connection. Ball-and-socket is similar to Chaos Knights and most likely compatible. Static connection appears to be unadjustable, similar to Plaguebearers and Savage Orcs. One torso requires two static arms, 3 require static left arm and ball-and-socket right arm and one torso requires static right arm and ball-and-socket left arm. It looks like there is only one ball-and-socket left arm in the kit, which means that every fifth model is forced to use a certain left arm (without conversion). Notice how this, this and this have the same torso and left arm. There seems be no other options! Also, no armoured left arm options at all. And all arms need some cutting before they are compatible with other chaos models such as Marauders, Beastmen and Chaos Space Marines.

Heads also come in two types. Sprue of 5 models contains 12 heads with ball-and-socket connection, all of which are likely compatible with other Chaos models with similar neck. 4 out of 5 Forsaken torsos hold this kind of head. The last torso holds a weird neck split connection head, for which there are only three options (toad, hunchback or tentacles). Once again, we are limited in options for every fifth guy without conversion (I am thinking of using Chaos Knight torsos here).

Forsaken kit is somewhat amusing because while it gives you plenty of bits to play with, it also limits their usage. I am going to purchase a box because I want to find out if they can be made look good. This probably involves kitbashing though. Spare Forsaken bits will find their way mostly into bases, I think. In my vision the earth beneath them mutates as they walk around.

So the new plastic GW monsters are _more expensive_ than higher quality resin kits from other manufacturers? Is this a first? That 'cheaper' injection molded plastic is actually more expensive than resin?

 Brother SRM wrote:
Here's hoping there's some good conversion fodder for my CSMs in this release!

Forsaken looked awesome for this task. I still have a large mass of randomly created mutant figs from the Eye of Terror releases ages ago and was looking at making some more until I saw the price tag: $50 for 10 minis? Ouch...not sure I can convince myself to buy now, even at 20% off from somewhere...:\

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kingsley wrote:
Back on topic, if you think that some models are unreasonably expensive, the obvious solution is simply to not buy those models. If enough people think that the models are too expensive and don't buy them, GW won't gain money from price increases and will stop conducting them. The important part of this, however, is not the complaining but the not buying. If you complain and buy anyway, GW will laugh all the way to the bank. Similarly, if you stop buying but it turns out that you're in the minority and most people are fine with the new prices, GW will go right on raising prices to whatever the market can bear.

While I agree with your point on insulting people instead of engaging in their discussion I am curious exactly what evidence you would base your position that GW would stop conducting their price increases for any reason. Given that for a lot of years now price increases are what are keeping their numbers and company value high while sales figures slide in the opposite direction. It is pretty clear to many that GW has already raised their prices to the point of being above what the market can really bear. In fact they crossed that point some time ago and keep raising them to try and fix the numbers in their favor. The problem is you raise prices, make the numbers look perkier, sales drop some more, so prices get raised some more, sales drop, etc. Eventually they aren't going to have anywhere to go to make their numbers perkier and ther will have to realize that they have pushed themselves into a death spiral. At some point they will need to either stop raising the prices constantly every year or even consider start lowering prices again and take a hit in the company value for a little while to engage more customers again. More sales at lower prices ultimately equates to better numbers all around for the company, while continually dropping sales numbers and raising prices to compensate is just a shell game and will most definitely bite them severely in the posterior.

I have plenty of disposable income and still buy GW's minis, but even I am starting to cut back my spending now. Things that I might have bought in the past just because I liked the model and wanted to build and paint one I just don't buy any more. If it doesn't go into one of my armies then I don't spend the money on it anymore. With codex prices at $49.50 I will no longer buy a new book just because I want to keep up on what my opponents will be doing, and will only buy those books that specifically link to the armies I now have. Soon I'll stop expanding my armies too and probably cut the cord on some newer projects I have that I just don't want to invest the money in anymore. I haven't convinced any friends to seriously jump into this game in years and it used to be very easy to show someone the game, get them to the store and watch them buy their first batch of minis to start an army. Now you get the excitement and get them to the store and they look at the price tag and laugh when they start calculating in their head how much their first army will cost, laughing even harder still when that army was going to be something like orks or IG that requires so many minis. I have enough armies to allow for multiple people to play without having any minis of their own, but building and painting your army is one of the strongest ways to bond into and engage with the game so that it is important to you. No mini building or painting and it is more like playing Monopoly, except you are using some minis someone else provided on the table instead of the metal dog, hat and shoe.

Skriker

ITT: People asking if GW is finally pricing people out of the hobby when if it was a release they were personally interested in they'd have no problems shelling out a few hundred bucks.

Nah, I collect WoC and many of these would fit with my theme (fast vanguard force, all cav) but I have no enthusiasm for them at these prices. I'll see about second hand, but I can get more bang for my buck elsewhere, and the scale creep with Dragon Ogres and the monsters is hard to ignore.

 Ostrakon wrote:
ITT: People asking if GW is finally pricing people out of the hobby when if it was a release they were personally interested in they'd have no problems shelling out a few hundred bucks.

No, I still have problems with shelling out this much. The last army I bought anything for was Necrons, and even that dug deep into my wallet. Despite playing CSM, I had no interest in buying anything for them during their release, and it's the same here with WoC, and will be for Tau, Eldar, LM and HE. Simply put, only Ebay will be getting much of money from now on.

Wayshuba wrote:
I think what we are seeing is an early preview of the price increases hitting this year.

Consider the following:

The Land Raider is $74.25 and the new Monster is $85.

Sorry for jumping to something off topic but I found an old land raider from 1999 (same one with Hb and 2TLLCs). The price tag had $45 on it. I'm going to be putting it together in a couple of weeks. I was shocked because my wife found it at my parents house in my old room with my 3rd edition rule book and 3 old school devastator squads I put together when I was 13/14 (about 15 - 17 years ago). I also found some old chaos champions i'm going to add to my current WOC army.

Back on topic - I think that chariot and the lord model look fantastic and will be picking them up this weekend. Oh and since I don't shop online it will be at my LGS. The key to ask of these games is to gradually pick up the models you want and need. Its better for your pocketbook and allows you to truly plan out what you want. As far a price goes, I see people posting all forge world armies so if people can afford $65 tactical squads and then buy a land raider and the forge world bits to make it heresy flavored I think they will be just fine.

Lastly its a hobby, if it gets to be unbearable and you hate it then its not healthy for you to continue to pursue your hobby. This should relax you not raise your BP our make you see red. If that's what is happening, I hope you quit the hobby for those reasons. All hobbies require investment. Join a soft ball team, you need to buy a glove (let's say a cheap one) $125. You need socks and cleats (decent ones) $125. Dues to play in a league $50. Team Jersey $50. Practice basis $10. A bat $150. Basing glove $25. Helmet $50. Bag to carry equipment $50. Paying for practice fields $5 per week unless you're using the YMCA then its included with you league fees. Beer for after the game $40 per week. Right now this hobby is expensive just like GW...

 Ostrakon wrote:
ITT: People asking if GW is finally pricing people out of the hobby when if it was a release they were personally interested in they'd have no problems shelling out a few hundred bucks.

I am very interested in WoC, it's one of the very few WHFB armies I have painted models for (albeit not many) and undoubtedly my favorite army for the game. I've loved heavily-armored Chaos Warriors since HeroQuest/Battlemasters, and I always contemplate buying any of the heavily-armored models they market going as far to pick up Archaron on foot (Games Day model) from eBay.

That said, while I like some of the models, as interesting as they might be the price tags put me off all of them. The Chaos Chariot is about the closest one to reasonable, and with the cost of the army book it might be left on the outside looking in. That's a shame, because I do love GW's worlds and their models. They're just getting to the point where even as a means of supporting my (awesome) FLGS, they're just not making the cut.

As price goes up, so too do expectations. When the Grey Knights first came out, I didn't mind one bit shelling out $10 a model in 2003 for the GK terminators, because they were and are awesome. The new WOC models aren't BAD, but the lord is twice as much as those old and current GK terminators even adjusted for inflation. I understand the economy of scale that makes the GKs lower (10 in an "average" force versus just 1), but that's still excessive. That's really the problem; GW is failing to innovate within their own products. Look at the old school plastic Chaos Warriors (converted example) and then at the present range (also mildly converted). While some may prefer the older look there's no denying that there's a certain spirit to the current models the captures the essence of Chaos Warriors as an indomitable force, even though the models themselves are somewhat static. That's what I keep waiting for, and I just haven't seen releases that capture that fundamental idea of an army of late.

If this is the way things are shaping up for GW, it's not going to be a golden time for much longer for them, and it'd be an end entirely of their own making.

 Kingsley wrote:


So wait, you think GW has already priced themselves out? Why can I go to my local shop and see many people with new CSM and DA armies, then?

I think this is a valid question. The prices keep going up and yet almost half the guys at my local club started or significantly added to their CSM armies. This was only a couple of months before the everybody was due to start/rebuild armies for a Tale of Wargamers. I was pretty surprised to see that much grey plastic appear 'overnight' given the current prices. Several of those guys had started new armies not long before that.

I was considering starting a WoC army but given the prices (and the look of a lot of the new models) I simply won't bother.

Then again, I've spent a good couple hundred £££ on Cryx and still don't have half the figures I want...and can just about field 50pts.