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WIth the recent FAQ confirming the best for blastmasters on Noise Marines (1 at 5 men, 2 at 10 men), I'd thought we should take a new look at them as mainline troops for Chaos Space Marines. More specifically, at the possibilities of using them as Multiple Small Units.

5 Noise Marines with one blastmaster and absolutely nothing else runs relatively cheap -- while more expensive than say, the new Dark Angels Tacs with a Plasma Cannon, they have several advantages over them.

They're fearless, Initiative 5 dudes with a really awesome special weapon, perfect for destroying pesky marines cowering in ruins while maybe simultaneously cowering in ruins themselves. If we have some form of Slaanesh Lord, they are spam-able camping troops choices with significant shooting power.

I took a list to my FLGS today with 4 units of 5 in this manner, and they acquitted themselves quite well. I was able to largely outshoot and defeat a Dark Angels list with a bunch of tactical marines, albeit without the dakka banner. Wounding on 2's, no armor save, instant death is not good for power armored dudes.

So, are these guys now viable? What would you all think good ways to run them are? Many units of 5 with one blastmaster, no upgrades? Units of ten with two? Close-combat weapons instead of bolters, to ward off close-combat? Sonic Blasters? What could a good Slaanesh Lord to unlock them look like?

I am actually more inclined to run two large units of 10 with two blast masters.

The reason is you can put more bodies between the blastmasters and the enemy. It forces you to focus fire on one uni t- but you do that anyway and more importantly you get to shoot at the 'full density' unit before any casualties have thinned it out.

Finally, this unit wants to stay still most of the time, which makes the more backfield campers than anything else. Taken as Elites they offer an awful lot of fire support from a slot that is dedicated traditionally to assault oriented units. If you take them as troops, they can also camp backfield objectives.

In both scenarios I like what they bring.

Now onto the kit. I think you run these naked (other than blast masters) with bolters in the backfield.

if you want to bring Huron, then you infiltrate them up close and grab sonic weapons plus a Doom Siren for overwatch. In almost no case would I bother with an extra CC weapon - they are expensive enough and you can use other units to bail them out of CC if you need to and dropping down a doom siren template plus 30 sonic weapons shots from overwatch is pretty nasty assault deterrence.

I think the 5 man squads should still have sonic weapons. The blast master is heavy so you want to stay still on the primary mode, and the opportunity cost of sonic weapons on the rest of the 5 man is low enough that it only needs to be effective 1 game in 6 to earn its points back.

While 10 man squads are nice, I feel torn suggesting a non-HQ lead squad of that size. 2 units cost a similiar amount to a single 10 man, but the 10 man has only half the grounding checks for example. The chaos book doesn't get real force multipliers on a single unit, so its not like you can prescience a big squad and make more guys reroll misses. In fact, I believe the slaneesh power that buffs sonic weapons applies to all units that shoot at them, right? So again no penalty on 5 man versus 10 man, and advantages to the 5 man in scoring units and grounding checks and less chance for over kill.

I am torn on this subject, so I will be trying both as soon as I can. And ordering more upgrade kits. For the MSU version is it worth putting a powersword or lc on the champ? Id say it isnt for a 5 man squad, although for a 10 man squad I have been. Thoughts?

In rhinos? Naked with two blastmasters

Otherwise smaller units outside.

The reason is you can put more bodies between the blastmasters and the enemy

Yeah, there is that. I guess one more response to that could be: do we want to spend that many points for a unit that will only get to camp one objective? Unfortunately, we don't get combat squads, or I'd say definitely go for 10 with 2 to split them up. Maybe a variety, a big squad or two and then some small sqauds.

if you want to bring Huron, then you infiltrate them up close and grab sonic weapons plus a Doom Siren for overwatch.

That's actually really nice. As you said, overwatch with 30ish shots and a doom siren should prevent most enemies from entering close combat; we do lose any benefit of their Initiative 5, but the dakka and doom siren are quite deadly.

I think the 5 man squads should still have sonic weapons.

The sonic weapons do provide a lot of firepower up to 24 inches away, however the blastmaster's got a 48" range -- if we're using the blastmaster as long range firepower while attempting to stay out of the line of fire, then there's not going to be that much opportunity to use the sonic weapons, and then they're just more points that go unused. You do have a point, in that 4 sonic weapons is not many, and the extra firepower within 24" can be useful, I'm just not yet convinced that they'll be able to use it enough to become effective.

For the MSU version is it worth putting a powersword or lc on the champ? Id say it isnt for a 5 man squad, although for a 10 man squad I have been. Thoughts?

That sounds about right; MSU isn't really going to hold up in any serious close combat, although the lightning claw could win in a challenge against random sergeants. To me, it now feels more likely that they'll get shot off the field before getting hit in close combat, and then we just want cheap bodies to protect the blast masters. If we intend to move up close to the enemy, I might actually go for the doom siren instead of a power weapon if we want to keep the champ's upgrades to a minimum. Giving the champion a doom siren and a power weapon (or two, if we want twin lightning claws) is a lot of points in a single one wound marine model, even at Init 5). AP3 Flamer templates, as we've seen demonstrated by the heldrake and the burning brand, are deadly at range, and good at stopping assault.

In rhinos? Naked with two blastmasters

Oh that sounds nasty. Would you want to keep the rhino back and have it be a double-shot CSM razorback, or move up so that when the rhino is inevitably destroyed, the marines can still go for forward objectives?

I like the idea of the rhino alot, never considered it before. I would personally move it up and when it inevitably gets blown up. (after blast mastering some stuff) then moving to a forward objective and holding it.

It's a real consideration now. 10 Man squad with two Blastmasters and perhaps IoE in the back, and then 5 Men with Blastmasters, and probably the Doomsiren.

No reason not to give it a shot. I don't think they will overtake Plague Marines as a Mainstay troop, though it's worth playing at least for a few games!

Being a fan of Noise Marines and Emporer's Children, I want to like this change, but 30pts for the upgrade is way more than I'd like to pay.

twin 10 man squads with 2 blastmasters 7 sonic blasters then 2-3 5 man quads with just a blastmaster throw in a biomancy sorceror and suddenly those 10 man squads can move and shoot at full range thats 42 sr4 ap5 shots that deny cover and 6 str8 Ap3 blasts that ignore cover and thats per turn abosolutely brutal :-)

Thariinye, I believe you won't use the sonic weapons on a 5 man squad often, but consider the times when you will. The enemy will be closing in on you within 24 inches with something fast enough to not have been killed by your ranged firepower. No scatter termies, flying mcs, infiltrating short ranged squads ( Huron was already mentioned, shrike exists still, gene stealers) and all 12 inch movers. In all these times, the extra shots help negate the turns lost to enemy mobility.

 l0k1 wrote:
Being a fan of Noise Marines and Emporer's Children, I want to like this change, but 30pts for the upgrade is way more than I'd like to pay.

30 points is too much for a Battlecannon with Ignores Cover??

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
Being a fan of Noise Marines and Emporer's Children, I want to like this change, but 30pts for the upgrade is way more than I'd like to pay.

30 points is too much for a Battlecannon with Ignores Cover??

not quite a battlecannon but close enough. Im happy to pay 30 points 4 or 5 of these per army makes space marine players cry

Crimson-King2120 wrote:
twin 10 man squads with 2 blastmasters 7 sonic blasters then 2-3 5 man quads with just a blastmaster throw in a biomancy sorceror and suddenly those 10 man squads can move and shoot at full range thats 42 sr4 ap5 shots that deny cover and 6 str8 Ap3 blasts that ignore cover and thats per turn abosolutely brutal :-)

I'd probably keep the Sonics off the 10 Man backfield squads, I don't think you would get to use them that often. With a ML 3 Biomancy Sorcerer, with no Mark, you still only have a 50% of rolling that power though.

so far ive nailed that power but thats more luck than anything else but in those games i had them behind a meatwall of cultists and man was it brutal

Crimson-King2120 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
Being a fan of Noise Marines and Emporer's Children, I want to like this change, but 30pts for the upgrade is way more than I'd like to pay.

30 points is too much for a Battlecannon with Ignores Cover??

not quite a battlecannon but close enough. Im happy to pay 30 points 4 or 5 of these per army makes space marine players cry

For some reason I keep thinking of them as missile launchers lol.

But my problem is trying to make the unit killy and durable without paying tons of points, but being able to fit 2 blastmasters in a 10 man squad will help.

I'd have to say 2 blastmasters, 7 sonic blasters with a champ in a rhino would be the best load out for moving upfield and camping in cover while laying down lots of shots. A case can be made for adding the Icon, but that would depend on points and if they are camping backfield.

I'd also be tempted to paint their rhino up like a boom box lol

 l0k1 wrote:


For some reason I keep thinking of them as missile launchers lol.

But my problem is trying to make the unit killy and durable without paying tons of points, but being able to fit 2 blastmasters in a 10 man squad will help.

I'd have to say 2 blastmasters, 7 sonic blasters with a champ in a rhino would be the best load out for moving upfield and camping in cover while laying down lots of shots. A case can be made for adding the Icon, but that would depend on points and if they are camping backfield.

I'd also be tempted to paint their rhino up like a boom box lol

Yeah, I'd say one of the trickier things is keeping them an effective force while also making them not a points sink; it seems like all the chaos troops start cheap, but then you add in the special weapons, the champ's weapons, the icon, and then they get expensive. Just for Noise Marines: Make them ten men, have two blastmasters, put them in a rhino, put sonic blasters on them, Ooh, maybe a doom siren would be nice, and an icon too, FnP is awesome! Suddenly we've wound up with a 10 man power armor unit with an armor 11 transport that costs 100 points more than a land raider.

Still, two almost battlecannons coming out of a rhino is silly awesome, and if they have the sonic blasters they can put out a lot of fire upfield. The power of weaponized dubstep/disco/techno/whatever music suits your fancy something that could complement most chaos lists. In this edition of high shooting, chaos space marines have a lot of stuff that can win in close combat (especially when everyone else is specializing away from it), but their shooting seemed to be a bit lackluster as a result. That's why I feel noise marines are excellent in the army, and yet am somewhat hesitant to have them up front. Their firepower is high-powered and long range, so them coupled with say, Nurgle Oblits and Heldrakes, could really win most shooting wars, especially if you manage to go first. Add a few fast in your face distraction units, like Nurgle Bikers, Maulerfiends, Juggernaut Lords, or Vindicators, and you keep enemy fire off of your own firepower until it's done its job.

Thats why i use a sorceror endurance gives FNP as well as relentless put a 30 man cultist shield in front of them then they have a 3+ save a 4+ cover save and FNP and if your sorceror happens to roll invisibillity that cover save becomes 2+ furthermore as your guns deny cover theres no penelty for shooting through the cultists :-)

In 6th ed you get only 5+ cover from intervening models

My kingdom to be able to combat squad them :/

In my opinion, I think a squad of 10 men with 2 Blastmasters, Icon of Excess, and Rhino is the most durable, point effective, and reliable.

The trick I would use is moving rhino 6" and then disembarking the squad 6" into terrain with cover on the 1st turn. You effectively moved them 12" and you can still shoot some guns.

I forget, can the champion take melta bombs? If so then I would do it.

 Filch wrote:
In my opinion, I think a squad of 10 men with 2 Blastmasters, Icon of Excess, and Rhino is the most durable, point effective, and reliable.

The trick I would use is moving rhino 6" and then disembarking the squad 6" into terrain with cover on the 1st turn. You effectively moved them 12" and you can still shoot some guns.

I forget, can the champion take melta bombs? If so then I would do it.

They can take melta bombs.

I was thinking of running a noise marine list but not with MSU. Core is a simple slaanesh lord, two 10man squads with just the blastmasters and a 5man with a blastmaster. Bastion and 2 heldrakes. I have about 210ish points left. I'm planning for a 1350 tourny. I was wondering if a warboss and some shoota' boys could fill my leftover points gap. I just don't know anytihng about the ork dex.

 Goat wrote:

 Filch wrote:
In my opinion, I think a squad of 10 men with 2 Blastmasters, Icon of Excess, and Rhino is the most durable, point effective, and reliable.

The trick I would use is moving rhino 6" and then disembarking the squad 6" into terrain with cover on the 1st turn. You effectively moved them 12" and you can still shoot some guns.

I forget, can the champion take melta bombs? If so then I would do it.

They can take melta bombs.

I was thinking of running a noise marine list but not with MSU. Core is a simple slaanesh lord, two 10man squads with just the blastmasters and a 5man with a blastmaster. Bastion and 2 heldrakes. I have about 210ish points left. I'm planning for a 1350 tourny. I was wondering if a warboss and some shoota' boys could fill my leftover points gap. I just don't know anytihng about the ork dex.

Nice theme... "Nowhere to hide." No cover for you!

-Matt

Or just use the Masque and make everyone cry when the blast masters kill entire units in 1 hit.

@Kirasu

Ssssshhhhh.....Don't tell people this!

Oh, and that can happen up to 3 units

 Filch wrote:
In my opinion, I think a squad of 10 men with 2 Blastmasters, Icon of Excess, and Rhino is the most durable, point effective, and reliable.

The trick I would use is moving rhino 6" and then disembarking the squad 6" into terrain with cover on the 1st turn. You effectively moved them 12" and you can still shoot some guns.

I forget, can the champion take melta bombs? If so then I would do it.

Why not just have them shoot out of the top of the rhino from behind an aegis?

Well, i'd take 4 times 5 Noise Marines each of which with a blastmaster. They form a solid fire base. As long as you can put pressure on the enemy they will be rather save.

 Goat wrote:

I was thinking of running a noise marine list but not with MSU. Core is a simple slaanesh lord, two 10man squads with just the blastmasters and a 5man with a blastmaster. Bastion and 2 heldrakes. I have about 210ish points left. I'm planning for a 1350 tourny. I was wondering if a warboss and some shoota' boys could fill my leftover points gap. I just don't know anytihng about the ork dex.

Hmm, the bastion idea is quite interesting -- how about we one-up it? What if we go full fortification, the Fortress of (not)Redemption, and stick a few blastmasters on the various battlements? The height advantage means that the blastmasters can see most anything on the board, and with the range on them they can typically shoot at most anything. Furthermore, the champs should still be able to shoot the emplaced lascannon and missile silo for extra hilarity. They'll be pretty safe from assault and can provide a nice firebase.

The bastion idea is probably better though, less points invested in static defenses that still gives a blastmaster or two the height advantage to threaten all of its massive range.

Well, I'd take an ADL with quad gun instead of a Bastion giving cover to the blastmaster babysitting NM.

 Kirasu wrote:
Or just use the Masque and make everyone cry when the blast masters kill entire units in 1 hit.

dude tell me i have 8 blastmasters in my 1500