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I am in the process of making a primarily footdar army, and need a durable unit to form the 'core' of my army. My first thought is a large unit of wraithguard, with a spiritseer and conceal, fortuned every turn. Ten of them makes it a scoring unit with t6, 3+ armor, and 5+ cover with a reroll. Any other suggestions for a tough frontline unit?

Harlequins. They have stealth and shrouding default, hit and run to allow your units to fire, if you can give them cover they have 2+ saves, and are much, much cheaper than wraithguard, both in game and out.

Wraithguard.... No. With TH/ss termies, they get obliterated. Even fist terminators only need 2-3 to get into combat and you lose.

Fortuned Seer Council led by a PL.

Yeah but harlequins are only t3, and they're too fast to put a farseer with them, meaning they're quickly out of fortune range. And mathhammer says 10 wraithguard overwatching will kill at least one terminator. Also, wraithguard stand up to bolter fire much better.

Seer council is a good idea, and probably cheaper. However, they have almost zero ranged ability.

Why not just use the avatar? Makes your guys fearless, does fine in the front, dead killy too.

I run a squad of wraithguard as the center of my footdar army to great success. They act as the anvil while the rest of the army around it is the hammer. Though IMO when building a good footdar list you have to think of the army as a whole and not try to plug in pieces. The whole army needs to work well together to form a single goal. I think you'll sell the army short if you mathhamer out how things will do against specific parts of your army. If your comparing how your wraithguard stack up against termies...id ask what was the rest of your army doing with that scenario played out...

Also harlies are not the answer here, harlies should be in the army but are not your frontline core unit....harlies are a great hammer unit. Tons of scaryness and tons of fast movement. I like to use mine on the flank of the army to try to force people to funnel towards the kill zone of the rest of my army

You could always get a jetseer council. Those things hit like trains and laugh at incoming fire. Expensive to field, and expensive dollarwise, but very powerful.

All you need is a 5+ cover save from anything on the board and harlequins actually are more survivable than WG

VS S3 bs4 vs harlequins:
90 shots
60 hits
30 wounds
5 die, .9 with fortune (2+ rerollable cover save)

VS S3 bs4 vs Wraithguard:
90 shots
60 hits
10 wounds
3 die, 1.1 with fortune (3+ armor save)

Yes, harlequins in the open dont do well, but having either a PL, Yriel, or simply good model placement will often get you the survivability you need. So long as the first model can get cover, the unit is safe as he probably will not die. In 9 games i have never had a harlequin squad wiped even with running 2 of them. Lowest i had was 4 after facing gunline guard on a low cover map.

Now try with plasma for the other side of this argument:

S7 Bs4 vs harlequins
9 shots (keeping math easy)
6 hit
5 wound
.8 dead, .1 with fortune

S7 BS4 vs WG
9 shots
6 hit
4 wound
2 dead, 1 with fortune

VS things like Battlecannons or S8+ harlequins are actually exactly as survivable without having cover saves.

Harlequins are the same speed as the rest of your army, Ignoring cover really doesnt make them much faster.

Seer council are not only more expensive in points, they have the same 4++ save as harlequins when in the open (harlequins are MUCH better vs range, SC better save in melee) and worse melee damage performance. They finally lack hit and run which means they are stuck in melee and cant give your army a chance to shoot. If you want to include a PL, throw it with harlequins and get the same result.

For 2000pts, I had the following... May not be total accurate, but you'll get the drift.

-Avatar
-Fuegan
- 2x 10man waithgaurds with conceal
- 2x Rangers
- Harlie squad
- DE Drahzer
- DE 5man Warrior
- 2x Wraith lords

We rolled Relic and was playing against IG gunline list.

I tabled him in 4th round... Avatar, Fuegan and WraithLords had too much fun.

Harlies with a jetbike Farseer is mathematically superior.

115 for a Fortune Farseer, 60 for a Conceal Warlock, Harlies have 2+ in the open, rerolling with fortune.

It's the "good" footdar unit.

 whembly wrote:
For 2000pts, I had the following... May not be total accurate, but you'll get the drift.

-Avatar
-Fuegan
- 2x 10man waithgaurds with conceal
- 2x Rangers
- Harlie squad
- DE Drahzer
- DE 5man Warrior
- 2x Wraith lords

We rolled Relic and was playing against IG gunline list.

I tabled him in 4th round... Avatar, Fuegan and WraithLords had too much fun.

How does this work exactly? Without a Farseer you have no psychic defence, which leaves you open to Nids and a number of other armies (Jaws, Multiple Enfeebles and anyone using Invisibility being the obvious ones). Most importantly you lose Fortune, which is what makes the Harlies a serious pain to deal with, if anyone bait them into the open they will die painfully and anything which can hit them in assault will hurt them badly. The other major issue is that Drazhar has nowhere to go, he can only join units of Incubi so it stuck by himself in this list.

Also drazhar can only join incubi so where does he go?

My old list in 5th was a Footdar list based around 3 Wraithlords and the Avatar with a Farseer. I also ran a 10 man Harli squad in it as well with Striking Scorps. I then used Guardians with Warlocks to get as many psykers as possible for Wraithsight. It worked, wasn't pretty but it worked. My Wraithlords did what your looking to have a unit do... be the 'durable' element at T8 and 3 wounds. But that 3+ armor save doesn't cut it anymore in 6th. They need a decent invuln save to compete with units like Necron Wraiths and Terminators. Since then I have bought 10 wraithguard and I am planning on using Eldrad.

I am really liking the Harli deathstar idea, but flamers destroy it, as well as any other attack that ignores cover (5+ re-rollable isn't hot). I am also worried about the Shadow Seer getting sniped out of the unit which nuts the unit. It also /needs/ Fortune and it is a challenge to keep someone in range to keep it up on them. Jetbike Farseer might work, but you want to do things like move through terrain or sit in terrain and I want my HQ to be doing more than following around my Harliquinns. Besides, why not run 2 squads, or even 3 if Harliquinns are that good? Then this trick falls apart because Eldrad can't ride a bike.

Wraithguard get crushed in melee and they need to advance to get in range to use thier gun. Having Eldrad walk with them to keep Fortune up while the Warlock is using Conceal helps, but your looking at 610pts with 12 figs that have to walk across the field. Will it draw fire? Sure. Will it survive long enough to kill anything? Maybe. Like the Harliquinns, they need to be supported with Fortune and it is /alot/ easier to do this, but unlike Harlis, they need something to be close by that can help out with melee combat, as Eldrad and the Warlock can't do this alone. Having a couple of Wraithlords (say one on each side of the unit) can help, since they are Str 10 AP 2 naturally and can be given a sword (re-roll misses in melee) and a gun or two (something for Eldrad to Guide?) as well as a pair of flamers for overwatch and to burn out pesky cover save units. But lets face it, this thing doesn't want to get into melee, it wants to walk up and shoot you.

3rd option is the Avatar with 20 Storm Guardians with Conceal. Two or three units made fearless by the Avatar can soak up alot of fire and not care. You then keep Fortune on the Avatar so your whole force doesn't fold like a house of cards when he is taken out. 20 Storm Guardians (+2 flamers or fusion guns) with a Warlock with Conceal and a Spear is 215pts. That is not terrible.

4th option is something like a unit or two of Striking Scorpions that are infiltrated up nice and close. They have a tendancy to draw alot of fire and alot of folk also do not like advancing past these units till they are destroyed. This gives /you/ time to get your main body moved up. Your foe will have to put better than bolter fire into them with that 3+ armor save, so most of the melta and plasma will be going into them as well as some heavy weapon's fire.

It all depends on how much you want to spend and what your list is made up of. I think any of the options will work if you dedicate yourself to make them work.

zephoid wrote:
Harlequins. They have stealth and shrouding default, hit and run to allow your units to fire, if you can give them cover they have 2+ saves, and are much, much cheaper than wraithguard, both in game and out.

Wraithguard.... No. With TH/ss termies, they get obliterated. Even fist terminators only need 2-3 to get into combat and you lose.

I think Wraithguard with Eldrad & Invisiseer is the way to go. Just have the Harlies advance behind that squad so they get 2+ cover saves & can cut the guard out of combat.

I used to play the wraithguard squad with Eldrad and a Farseer with Invisibility and Baron Sathonyx as an ally. It did pretty good for a while. Then when people in my local meta got the idea in their head that they needed to start taking more guns that ignore cover the invisibility did nothing for their survivability. It also didn't help much if by some reason someone with power weapons of any kind assulted them.

So I switched to a Farseer that now casts Forewarning on them.

I have to say, they perform much better now. The Forewarning with Fortune keeps them alive far longer than they normally would be. And it allows me to usually cast Misfortune on the enemy as well as I still have a Warp Charge left after casting Forewarning.

I've been playing them this way since the third week after 6th edition hit the shelves and I have had very few losses. The Wraithguard unit becomes a unit that is almost impossible to kill. Three times now I have had Daemon players jump in a squad of Flamers of Tzeentch and burn the Wraithguard with them. One of those guys got 36 hits on the unit. Out of those 36 hits not a single Wraithguard died. All he was able to do was put 1 wound on a farseer.

When I played against a Lysander list the Wraithguard squad killed the entire Terminator bodyguard unit and Lysander over two turns. And he couldn't bust through the wraithguard due to the Fortune and Forewarning as well. Then with Misfortune and Doom on his unit, I watched as the terminators just dissapeared.

This is starting to happen pretty regularly so I think that particular unit is here to stay in my foot based Eldar army.

Powerguy wrote:

 whembly wrote:
For 2000pts, I had the following... May not be total accurate, but you'll get the drift.

-Avatar
-Fuegan
- 2x 10man waithgaurds with conceal
- 2x Rangers
- Harlie squad
- DE Drahzer
- DE 5man Warrior
- 2x Wraith lords

We rolled Relic and was playing against IG gunline list.

I tabled him in 4th round... Avatar, Fuegan and WraithLords had too much fun.

How does this work exactly? Without a Farseer you have no psychic defence, which leaves you open to Nids and a number of other armies (Jaws, Multiple Enfeebles and anyone using Invisibility being the obvious ones). Most importantly you lose Fortune, which is what makes the Harlies a serious pain to deal with, if anyone bait them into the open they will die painfully and anything which can hit them in assault will hurt them badly. The other major issue is that Drazhar has nowhere to go, he can only join units of Incubi so it stuck by himself in this list.

Wanted to try something w/o farseer... I played IG, and his psyker didn't do anything (well... he's IG ). But as for psychic defense, the warguards and harlies has a 5+ deny the witch.

Harlies are a pain anyways, throw in Fuegan and it's a 2+ armour save with FnP.

The idea is to take ALL the units and MOVE THEM FORWARD. You have to deal with every unit and it's not as easy to take 'em down as you've insinuated.

But correction guys... ? Drahzer, I thought he only had to go with the incubi if they're in the Army? I joined him to the Harlie squad... was I wrong? (don't have my codex with me).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Also drazhar can only join incubi so where does he go?

Bummer, I must have played that wrong...

Oh well, hear comes a farseer for the harly unit.

 TheCaptain wrote:
Harlies with a jetbike Farseer is mathematically superior.

115 for a Fortune Farseer, 60 for a Conceal Warlock, Harlies have 2+ in the open, rerolling with fortune.

It's the "good" footdar unit.

It's also quite impossible to make, unless it's some sorta forge world trickery.

Lilrys wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:
Harlies with a jetbike Farseer is mathematically superior.

115 for a Fortune Farseer, 60 for a Conceal Warlock, Harlies have 2+ in the open, rerolling with fortune.

It's the "good" footdar unit.

It's also quite impossible to make, unless it's some sorta forge world trickery.

Edit-Silly me.

How are you getting a Warlock in a unit of Harlies? Maybe that's what they mean. As far as I know you can take a unit of Warlocks on Jetbikes or a unit of Harlequins with a jetbike mounted farseer. But you said " 60 for a Conceal Warlock". So I want to know how you are fitting a Warlock into a Harlequin squad ?

 TheCaptain wrote:

Lilrys wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:
Harlies with a jetbike Farseer is mathematically superior.

115 for a Fortune Farseer, 60 for a Conceal Warlock, Harlies have 2+ in the open, rerolling with fortune.

It's the "good" footdar unit.

It's also quite impossible to make, unless it's some sorta forge world trickery.

How on earth is that impossible?

The shadowseer upgrade is not the same as the warlock upgrade; though the shadowseer is essentially a warlock it does not have access to upgrades from the warlock entry.

Unless you think you can take a single warlock as a bodyguard for your Farseer, which is impossible since taking a Farseer only allows for a squad of 3-10 warlocks to be taken and squads can't join squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
I used to play the wraithguard squad with Eldrad and a Farseer with Invisibility and Baron Sathonyx as an ally. It did pretty good for a while. Then when people in my local meta got the idea in their head that they needed to start taking more guns that ignore cover the invisibility did nothing for their survivability. It also didn't help much if by some reason someone with power weapons of any kind assulted them.

So I switched to a Farseer that now casts Forewarning on them.

I have to say, they perform much better now. The Forewarning with Fortune keeps them alive far longer than they normally would be. And it allows me to usually cast Misfortune on the enemy as well as I still have a Warp Charge left after casting Forewarning.

I've been playing them this way since the third week after 6th edition hit the shelves and I have had very few losses. The Wraithguard unit becomes a unit that is almost impossible to kill. Three times now I have had Daemon players jump in a squad of Flamers of Tzeentch and burn the Wraithguard with them. One of those guys got 36 hits on the unit. Out of those 36 hits not a single Wraithguard died. All he was able to do was put 1 wound on a farseer.

When I played against a Lysander list the Wraithguard squad killed the entire Terminator bodyguard unit and Lysander over two turns. And he couldn't bust through the wraithguard due to the Fortune and Forewarning as well. Then with Misfortune and Doom on his unit, I watched as the terminators just dissapeared.

This is starting to happen pretty regularly so I think that particular unit is here to stay in my foot based Eldar army.

I get the vulnerability of the invisibility power on wraithguard in close combat, though it is sill advantageous, but what cover ignoring weapons can wound wraithguard on better than a 4+ that a player might face regularly or in significant numbers?

Wraithguard are the only 'tough' unit you're likely to get; they can manage against Terminators if you can get off the shot, but they need close-combat support if you're planning on playing someone who's trying to close on your force.

warpspider89 wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

Lilrys wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:
Harlies with a jetbike Farseer is mathematically superior.

115 for a Fortune Farseer, 60 for a Conceal Warlock, Harlies have 2+ in the open, rerolling with fortune.

It's the "good" footdar unit.

It's also quite impossible to make, unless it's some sorta forge world trickery.

How on earth is that impossible?

The shadowseer upgrade is not the same as the warlock upgrade; though the shadowseer is essentially a warlock it does not have access to upgrades from the warlock entry.

Unless you think you can take a single warlock as a bodyguard for your Farseer, which is impossible since taking a Farseer only allows for a squad of 3-10 warlocks to be taken and squads can't join squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
I used to play the wraithguard squad with Eldrad and a Farseer with Invisibility and Baron Sathonyx as an ally. It did pretty good for a while. Then when people in my local meta got the idea in their head that they needed to start taking more guns that ignore cover the invisibility did nothing for their survivability. It also didn't help much if by some reason someone with power weapons of any kind assulted them.

So I switched to a Farseer that now casts Forewarning on them.

I have to say, they perform much better now. The Forewarning with Fortune keeps them alive far longer than they normally would be. And it allows me to usually cast Misfortune on the enemy as well as I still have a Warp Charge left after casting Forewarning.

I've been playing them this way since the third week after 6th edition hit the shelves and I have had very few losses. The Wraithguard unit becomes a unit that is almost impossible to kill. Three times now I have had Daemon players jump in a squad of Flamers of Tzeentch and burn the Wraithguard with them. One of those guys got 36 hits on the unit. Out of those 36 hits not a single Wraithguard died. All he was able to do was put 1 wound on a farseer.

When I played against a Lysander list the Wraithguard squad killed the entire Terminator bodyguard unit and Lysander over two turns. And he couldn't bust through the wraithguard due to the Fortune and Forewarning as well. Then with Misfortune and Doom on his unit, I watched as the terminators just dissapeared.

This is starting to happen pretty regularly so I think that particular unit is here to stay in my foot based Eldar army.

I get the vulnerability of the invisibility power on wraithguard in close combat, though it is sill advantageous, but what cover ignoring weapons can wound wraithguard on better than a 4+ that a player might face regularly or in significant numbers?

Flamers of Tzeentch, Spells, poisoned weapons from dark eldar with attached Farseer allies using the ignore cover spell from the divination school, Dark Eldar using Liquifier guns, some imperial guard tanks, some IG using orders to make you re roll cover saves and shooting you with tons of autocannons from a blob squad, the new Chaos dragon, Tau Broadsides with marker lights, and many other things in the Tau army, there are plenty of things that will chew through a unit of wraithguard with invisibility on it.

Get a Farseer with Invisibility and a Warlock that gives them a cover save. Made me nearly pull my hair out trying to kill them with shooting, and since I don't have Terminators, it's not like I was going to put them down in CC.

There is no way to get a Warlock into a Harlequin unit, unless it is in some FW book. If it is, some folks would appreciate if you clarify this.

You can get a Warlock into the Wraithguard unit. Invisibility from a Farseer (Eldrad, I would imagine is your best bet) could be quite interesting, but then you've lost Fortune, unless you take a second Farseer with Fortune.

A big thing to consider when running a full 10 Wraithguard unit is that you need to build your army around the concept. It is a lot of points and a slow moving unit (relatively, I will explain). Eldar Jetbikes and Reaver Jetbikes are great units that work well with this hammer unit.

To minimize the effects of WG, folks will generally do two things: stay out of their range (can be difficult late game) or get into assault with them. WG really don't hit hard and end up tarpitted and you lose their very potent shooting and threat bubble. To combat this, you need to take Baron Sathonyx. He has Hit and Run. This serves two things: gets you out of combat at the end of your opponent's turn and also gives you another movment to get this unit deep into your enemy's deployment zone. Also, and folks like to argue this, but the rules for ICs are quite clear, you now have a Shadowfield in the unit which you are casting Fortune on. (p.39 IC rules: while and independent character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters.) A Fortuned Shadowfield eats up ridiculous amounts of shooting, but very careful model positioning is required and it's taken me a several games to truly appreciate this fact.

If I were to be running something like a footdar list, this is roughly what I'd be looking at:

Eldrad
Baron Sathonyx

7 Harlequins w/ Kisses, Shadowseer w/ Kiss

10 Wraithguard, Warlock, Conceal
2 x 9 Eldar Jetbikes, 3 Cannons, Warlock, Bike, Spear, Embolden
7 Hellions

3 Reaver Jetbikes

Wraithlord, Sword, 2 x Flamers
Wraithlord, Sword, 2 x Flamers

This is roughly 1843 off the top of my head. You will be using 2 x Fortunes and Doom most of the time. Read up how the USR work and how Hit and Run works. This will help ensure WG are shooting and your Harlies are the counter assault.

Folks massively underestimate just how much shooting a full 10 strong Jetbike squad puts out and how much mobility they have.

Hellions, well, they are there to try and get an objective as they are a troops choice, plus a decent amount of poison shots.

Wraithlords are characters which is why I like having the Swords with them. They have a natural S10 and hammer of wrath. Two Flamers for added utility. Keep them near the Wraithguard and you should be able to give them a 5+ cover save as you can get 25% obscurement.

Reavers, very fast and just there to contest an objective or another option to go for linebreaker.

Hope this helps.

Problem: Eldar are not good at holding a position that is expected to draw heavy enemy fire.

Typical Eldar solution: Sucker a lesser race into doing the dirty work for them.

What can be more Eldar than including allies of convenience to help hold objectives?

 schadenfreude wrote:
Problem: Eldar are not good at holding a position that is expected to draw heavy enemy fire.

Typical Eldar solution: Sucker a lesser race into doing the dirty work for them.

What can be more Eldar than including allies of convenience to help hold objectives?

If you do so, I'd take Eldar as ally detachment and the other army as main detachment. Sadly, this is the better way right now.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Problem: Eldar are not good at holding a position that is expected to draw heavy enemy fire.

Typical Eldar solution: Sucker a lesser race into doing the dirty work for them.

What can be more Eldar than including allies of convenience to help hold objectives?

If you do so, I'd take Eldar as ally detachment and the other army as main detachment. Sadly, this is the better way right now.

More conforming to the fluff.. hah... not sure if that makes me sad or happy. haha

Side note on allies - I'm thinking Blood Angels would be awesome allies for Eldar! They are tough as nails, spam strength 5 in CC, fast enough to flow with the Eldar, and RoW need not affect them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

Lilrys wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:
Harlies with a jetbike Farseer is mathematically superior.

115 for a Fortune Farseer, 60 for a Conceal Warlock, Harlies have 2+ in the open, rerolling with fortune.

It's the "good" footdar unit.

It's also quite impossible to make, unless it's some sorta forge world trickery.

How on earth is that impossible?

The shadowseer upgrade is not the same as the warlock upgrade; though the shadowseer is essentially a warlock it does not have access to upgrades from the warlock entry.

Unless you think you can take a single warlock as a bodyguard for your Farseer, which is impossible since taking a Farseer only allows for a squad of 3-10 warlocks to be taken and squads can't join squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
I used to play the wraithguard squad with Eldrad and a Farseer with Invisibility and Baron Sathonyx as an ally. It did pretty good for a while. Then when people in my local meta got the idea in their head that they needed to start taking more guns that ignore cover the invisibility did nothing for their survivability. It also didn't help much if by some reason someone with power weapons of any kind assulted them.

So I switched to a Farseer that now casts Forewarning on them.

I have to say, they perform much better now. The Forewarning with Fortune keeps them alive far longer than they normally would be. And it allows me to usually cast Misfortune on the enemy as well as I still have a Warp Charge left after casting Forewarning.

I've been playing them this way since the third week after 6th edition hit the shelves and I have had very few losses. The Wraithguard unit becomes a unit that is almost impossible to kill. Three times now I have had Daemon players jump in a squad of Flamers of Tzeentch and burn the Wraithguard with them. One of those guys got 36 hits on the unit. Out of those 36 hits not a single Wraithguard died. All he was able to do was put 1 wound on a farseer.

When I played against a Lysander list the Wraithguard squad killed the entire Terminator bodyguard unit and Lysander over two turns. And he couldn't bust through the wraithguard due to the Fortune and Forewarning as well. Then with Misfortune and Doom on his unit, I watched as the terminators just dissapeared.

This is starting to happen pretty regularly so I think that particular unit is here to stay in my foot based Eldar army.

I get the vulnerability of the invisibility power on wraithguard in close combat, though it is sill advantageous, but what cover ignoring weapons can wound wraithguard on better than a 4+ that a player might face regularly or in significant numbers?

Flamers of Tzeentch, Spells, poisoned weapons from dark eldar with attached Farseer allies using the ignore cover spell from the divination school, Dark Eldar using Liquifier guns, some imperial guard tanks, some IG using orders to make you re roll cover saves and shooting you with tons of autocannons from a blob squad, the new Chaos dragon, Tau Broadsides with marker lights, and many other things in the Tau army, there are plenty of things that will chew through a unit of wraithguard with invisibility on it.

Thanks! I appreciate your response.

Orks and IG are both good, 60 boys or a platoon or 2 solves the eldar problem of not enough manpower. Massed flashlights or shootas also have great synergy with doom.

Orks can also bring a kff that has full effect on eldar units such as wraith guard.

An IG platoon can go all over the board, and individual squads are very expendable.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:


So I switched to a Farseer that now casts Forewarning on them.

I have to say, they perform much better now. The Forewarning with Fortune keeps them alive far longer than they normally would be. And it allows me to usually cast Misfortune on the enemy as well as I still have a Warp Charge left after casting Forewarning.

Is there a way to constantily get Forewarning? I mean, it is a random dice roll so you have a 1 chance for every power you buy, up to 4 powers. It is good odds, but not 100 percent... and kinda expensive at 85pts for the 4 cheapest powers. Then you start looking at a spear, Runes, and Spirit stones (because if your buying four powers, why not?) for 178pts total... that is pretty dang expensive just to keep one power on one unit when you still need Fortune.

I run a footdar list with GK as my primary force. I overload on MCs. My front line is an Avatar w/ storm guardian squad w/ conceal. It works because I have five MCs charging forward - Avatar, 3 DKs and a WL. I have done quite well with the list. It could be Eldar primary w/ the 3 WL but frankly DKs are just a massive problem for a lot of lists.