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 yorkskargrimironklaw wrote:
Tau have HS other then Broadsides.WOW i'm going to have to look that up in there codex.

I going to say the whole Ork codex as every army dose what any unit in and Ork army can for cheaper so there not even good as an allied force

You find me a codex that has a real substitute for shoota boyz and lootaz and I'll eat my hat.

And I don't even own a hat.

 Griddlelol wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:


in a land raider

That's why. You've got to shell out for a LR to get 15 guys in to CC, where to be fair, they're not all that fancy. That LR could simply be spent on more GHs, LFs or RPs which are more points efficient.

It's sad really, I love blood claws, but they're just out-shined by GHs.

this is the unfortunate truth, fluff wise I always run them with friends because theres going to always be more bloodclaws than greyhunters. they are a good cc unit though and have managed to give my buddies orks a thrashing but points wise its better spent on GH

 tvih wrote:

 yorkskargrimironklaw wrote:
I going to say the whole Ork codex as every army dose what any unit in and Ork army can for cheaper so there not even good as an allied force

Uhhh. No. Just no.

Well how can i reply to such a went thought out argument like that!
I have played many games against Orks since 6ed, never any with my Orkz as i have read the 6ed rules and will wait untill 7ed before i play them again.
With my SW army i take 3 - 7 Rune Priests dependant on if its a 2000pt game or not. I always take Divination surprise surprise.
This will table an Orks army in 3 turns so to make the game alittle more fair i will still take the power but roll randomly on the table as Orks are so weak in 6ed that i don't need the powers, but my opponent feel dishearted if they know i have re-rolled shooting and melee and don't use it (i'm going easy on them). I have even done this in a tournament and got 10/10 from the Ork player for sportmanship, as you can guess he came last over all with a beautifully painted army

Exalbaru wrote:


this is the unfortunate truth, fluff wise I always run them with friends because theres going to always be more bloodclaws than greyhunters. they are a good cc unit though and have managed to give my buddies orks a thrashing but points wise its better spent on GH

I've been thinking about an "assault" SW list recently, taking all the under-used and overlooked options. Just for fun, but focussing on Vindicators and blood claws. TWC aren't exactly under-used, but for me they are.

 yorkskargrimironklaw wrote:

 tvih wrote:

 yorkskargrimironklaw wrote:
I going to say the whole Ork codex as every army dose what any unit in and Ork army can for cheaper so there not even good as an allied force

Uhhh. No. Just no.

Well how can i reply to such a went thought out argument like that!
I have played many games against Orks since 6ed, never any with my Orkz as i have read the 6ed rules and will wait untill 7ed before i play them again.
With my SW army i take 3 - 7 Rune Priests dependant on if its a 2000pt game or not. I always take Divination surprise surprise.
This will table an Orks army in 3 turns so to make the game alittle more fair i will still take the power but roll randomly on the table as Orks are so weak in 6ed that i don't need the powers, but my opponent feel dishearted if they know i have re-rolled shooting and melee and don't use it (i'm going easy on them). I have even done this in a tournament and got 10/10 from the Ork player for sportmanship, as you can guess he came last over all with a beautifully painted army

Tell the Ork players to learn to play. Seriously. Orks aren't bad at all.

Mozzamanx wrote:Ork Tankbustas.

Overlooked in favour of Lootas, because D3 S7 shots just mulches anything short of AV14. They basically do the Tankbustas job but better, plus deal with infantry & aircraft. Doing it with double the range is just the icing on the cake.
Also Glory Hogs is often held against them. If there is the option to shoot a vehicle they must take it, even if you would rather spray shots into that impending mob of infantry.

Why should we consider them?
Because other than the unfavourable comparison to Lootas, they are a damned good unit.
Every model carries a gun with S8, AP3 and Assault 1. Part of the mob can switch them up for Tankhammers, landing them 2-3 S10 attacks each.
Bomb Squigs are the most accurate weapon in the Ork arsenal and are cheap as chips.
Every model carries Tankbusta Bombs, which are S6+2D6 for armour penetration. When thrown, they are basically a gimpy Meltagun, but still more dangerous than the standard Rokkit.

They pack S8 and thus instant death. They are violent death to any vehicle they catch in melee. They pack the most accurate ranged weapon in the codex and are basically a fun little package that spews grenades, rokkits and explosive Squigs,

Lootas are better as a generalist unit purely for the rate of fire. However, when you need heavy something to deal with anything AV13+, turn to the Tankbustas. They'll kill it and do it with style.

Tankbustas are awesome on paper, its just that they die sooooo easy when theyre in range of anything. Vehicles or MC they just go "GET ZIT!!!" but mass of infantry or things with a high invul or a 2+ armor and forget it they dont have the firing rate to cut through that. Lootas dont have this problem for the most part because of the damn near table-top range. Most of the time if i have a problem with something chargin my lootas, i already lost cuz what i had infront of the lootas was either dead or almost dead.

I'd say Flash Gitz are another overlooked ork unit.
They ignore cover.....thats flippin awesome!
Oh wait theyre just ork boyz so they die to being looked at...nevermind

Flash Gitz aren't Ork Boyz....they have a 4+ armor save and 2 wounds.

C:SM:

Thunderfire cannons. Cheap as hell, kill all but heavy vehicles dead, and can still force terrain checks plus has a shot that ignores cover? Did I mention it shoots 4 small blasts, is artillery, and comes with a free fully upgraded techmarine with the ability to reinforce cover?

Ironclad Dreadnoughts in drop pods: Av 13, can come in first turn, normally carry a melta gun, can take assault and defensive grenades, what's not to like?

CSM:

Spawn: These guys move like beasts, so 12 inch move always, have fleet, don't get slowed by terrain, are cheap as bits and come with T 5 and 3 wounds a piece? Helldrakes are chumps and more expensive than 5 spawn.

Hellbrutes: Cheap dreadnoughts with the ablity to take a power scourge. Why? Power scourge reduces the WS of models in base contact by d3, that's why. Killing elite units has never been easier.

Tau:

Ethereals: The ability to re-roll those crap leadership tests for cheap, also makes the squad joined fearless. Attach to a team of three broadsides and add two sheild drones for lulz. Hard a ballz to kill.

Vespid: Jump infantry with the ability to re-roll dangerous terrain and benefit from markerlights. Have a str 5 ap 3 gun, great for killing MEQ and monsterous creatures. The bug surprise is well known at my FLGS

Griever wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Legion of th Damned in the SM codex,
Sure, overpriced, But damn they Deepstrike in. The punch through anything and thn when you count charge them with 30+ marines? sorry, you will loose.

The last part is just wrong. 30 Marines charging them will slaughter Legion of the Damned. They fight exactly light any other space marine, but one more attack. Same WS, same Str, same iniative, same weaponsthey'll get the same save (3+).

Maybe im just lucky, because i have had that happen to me many times.

 juraigamer wrote:

Tau:

Ethereals: The ability to re-roll those crap leadership tests for cheap, also makes the squad joined fearless. Attach to a team of three broadsides and add two sheild drones for lulz. Hard a ballz to kill.

Vespid: Jump infantry with the ability to re-roll dangerous terrain and benefit from markerlights. Have a str 5 ap 3 gun, great for killing MEQ and monsterous creatures. The bug surprise is well known at my FLGS

Ethereal would also draw fire from every gun on the board. When you add a self-destruct button to your list your opponents goal becomes pretty straightforward.

And Vespid are pretty bad. Expensive, short ranged, and with poor durability they won't really be able to provide that great of a threat. If everything else in the codex wasn't so points heavy I wouldn't mind taking them, but currently it just compounds the problem. And they are kind of a 1 shot trick. Once your opponent realizes what they are, they are toast. A lot of people probably don't pay them much mind because they just know them as the one Tau unit that is so bad nobody takes them.

 yorkskargrimironklaw wrote:

 tvih wrote:

 yorkskargrimironklaw wrote:
I going to say the whole Ork codex as every army dose what any unit in and Ork army can for cheaper so there not even good as an allied force

Uhhh. No. Just no.

With my SW army i take 3 - 7 Rune Priests dependant on if its a 2000pt game or not. I always take Divination surprise surprise.

i will never take divination on anything because its so bloody cheesy just how good it is... I'd actually be very happy if it somehow got removed from the rulebook all together.

I second the divination motion.

Eldrad with divination can turn even the worst units in the game into powerhouses, and turn the good ones into the stuff of nightmares.

As for an overlook unit-Sniper Drone Team.

Why? it lacks the freaking sniper rules, for starters. then it competes with broadsides and hammerheads for slots.

The sniper drones are actually interesting to consider. I agree that the main issue is that they are in a bad FOC slot. I always try to fill all the slots before adding more suits to the existing squads.

But I consider the second biggest flaw to the sniper drones is how ultimately silly they are. A sniper team that is so completely screwed over against precision shots because of the drone controler rule. A single networked markerlight on a unit designed to fire at different units. Expensive to the point where it's just embarassing, just compare one drone team to an Ion cannon and you'll see what I mean.

Just to top it off, you could take 4 pathfinders upgrade three to railrifles. You lose out on the stealth field generator and networked markerlight, but you only use up one slot from a mostly empty FA slot. I just realized how little FA is actually used in Tau when the entire army is based around mobile firepower. I may have come down with a terminal case of irony.

Oh, and my vote for underrated in Tau comes from Forgeworld.

The twin-linked plasma gun turret for the Hammerhead is actually pretty decent. It's the same price as an ion cannon, loses 12" range, but gains +1 shot and twinlinking. And the one downside, shorter range, is more of a moot point since the Hammerhead can fire like a fast vehicle. Really it's another example of Forgeworld's idea that "more shots equals more better.'

The second unit is the drone sentry turrets. BS2 twinlinked missile pods for 40pts a piece on AV12 with disruption pods, and being able to take 1-4 per troop choice. Overlooked due to their immobility, high cost to purchase, and questionable usefulness since they don't count as scoring. I need to try these things out some day. If only they had skyfire, I'd take them in a heart beat and even without they still have quite a bit of firepower to give out to enemy flyers. and since they aren't limited to 0-1 you could spam out 5 teams of 4 for 800 points and get 40 twinlinked missiles.

Wait. Why are they overlooked again? How many people could handle 20 AV12 turrets with 2+ saves in an army filled up with broadsides and suits.

Biovores. Cheap, useful, deadly. Spore Mines are some of the best area denial weapons in the game. Miss? Not a problem, the mine is still floating about there, just waiting for some chump to walk into it.

Mawlocs. Bye bye Terminators! You tasted delicious!

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I'd say Flash Gitz are another overlooked ork unit.
They ignore cover.....thats flippin awesome!
Oh wait theyre just ork boyz so they die to being looked at...nevermind

Other than the fact that they're actually Nobs instead of standard boyz... I would most agree with this. Sure they cost a heck of a lot, but given a lot of situations, especially now in 6th, they're harder to kill than Ork tanks. They get 2 saves (because you ARE running a painboy in the mob), and a decent survivability. For 35 points per model, you get a 2 Wound, 4+ Armour, Assault 2 gun that ignores cover and either has Strength 6 or APd6-1 Gets hot. And for a required 55 points you get the valuable pain-doc in the group. The group gets very expensive. Theoretically they can be quite beastly.

 yorkskargrimironklaw wrote:
Tau have HS other then Broadsides.WOW i'm going to have to look that up in there codex.

I going to say the whole Ork codex as every army dose what any unit in and Ork army can for cheaper so there not even good as an allied force

This is just plain wrong. For a quick example I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who doesn't call 10-15x lootas the best AA unit in the game (Barring flakk missile havocs).

Orks are awesome.

Cheesedoodler wrote:

 yorkskargrimironklaw wrote:
Tau have HS other then Broadsides.WOW i'm going to have to look that up in there codex.

I going to say the whole Ork codex as every army dose what any unit in and Ork army can for cheaper so there not even good as an allied force

For a quick example I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who doesn't call 10-15x lootas the best AA unit in the game (Barring flakk missile havocs).

*coughVendettascough*

Sentinels.

Once again, because of the vendetta. But this is especially the case for armored sentinels, because at least scouts have the advantage of outflanking-- but at the same time, armored sentinels can present an AV12 armored mobile heavy weapons platform that is difficult to dislodge in close combat. Give a squadron a heavy flamer and they actually make a good Tarpit unit. Even basic multilaser ones are quite versatile in what they can do.

And of course, against terminators, there's always the plasma cannon ones.

Please ignore york guys... he's either a troll or a very, very pessimistic ass. Either way, not worth your time.

OT: My brother outfits his warwalkers with starcannons. With farseer support they toast terminator units in just one round of shooting (And that's TH/SS termies, btw) and are quite good at taking out light vehicles.

EDIT: strike that, i thought that doom forced a re-roll on armor saves as well. Scatter-lasers are better, and i believe cheaper as well.

Also, dare I say it...

Pyrovores.

Useless in 40K, excellent in Cities of Death.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

The second unit is the drone sentry turrets. BS2 twinlinked missile pods for 40pts a piece on AV12 with disruption pods, and being able to take 1-4 per troop choice. Overlooked due to their immobility, high cost to purchase, and questionable usefulness since they don't count as scoring. I need to try these things out some day. If only they had skyfire, I'd take them in a heart beat and even without they still have quite a bit of firepower to give out to enemy flyers. and since they aren't limited to 0-1 you could spam out 5 teams of 4 for 800 points and get 40 twinlinked missiles.

Wait. Why are they overlooked again? How many people could handle 20 AV12 turrets with 2+ saves in an army filled up with broadsides and suits.

A-technically you cant, they cant be the mandatory troops. max 4 squads under 2000.

B-they got shifted to immobile artillery rather then AV12s, a big downgrade, mainly with the D-pod

Though if their $ cost was sane, the MP ones could be nice for gunline tau, and the fusion ones could be a nasty suicide drop unit. especially now that they DS for free.

C: CSM

Noise Marines

Overlooked because while sonic blasters and blastmasters got cheaper and gained the "ignores cover" USR, blasters became worse to use on the move and masters, while being able to take more in a squad, became less accessable. GW recently realeased an errata that fixed masters and made them very accessable, but because GW doesn't anounce their FAQs, so many chaos players don't know of the change.

They are also overlooked as they seem miss-matched. They have a profile that would be at home on an assaulty unit, yet all the good options are all shooty-based. As an elites choice, many units are better in assault ('zerkers, termis, combat chosen) and others are better at shooting (shooty chosen, Ksons (well, better AP weapons)) and units more resistant, even without taking an icon (termis, Ksons, Plague Bearers)

As a troops choice they don't fair well as they aren't as cheap as regular marines or cultists and aren't as customisable.



Why should we consider them?
Because they are one of the few units in the game that can have everyone (-1) holding a non-template gun that ignores cover. They can also hold their own in assault, with I5 and can take a banner that gives them FnP. They are fearless stock standard.

They have access to one of the best guns in the game, the blastmaster, which still has 2 profiles, 1 on the move and 1 for standing still. They can also be part of a great combo using a slaanesh sorcerer that rolled symphony on pain. Str 9 Blastmasters are great, as are str 5 blasters.

 BoomWolf wrote:


A-technically you cant, they cant be the mandatory troops. max 4 squads under 2000.

B-they got shifted to immobile artillery rather then AV12s, a big downgrade, mainly with the D-pod

Though if their $ cost was sane, the MP ones could be nice for gunline tau, and the fusion ones could be a nasty suicide drop unit. especially now that they DS for free.

I read it as they didn't count for the +1 firewarrior squads. Still, you can field a lot for cheap.

I didn't realize they got another update. I don't really pay attention to Forgeworld books since I primarily play Tau and they have like 3 units I actually care about rules for. Quick question though, if they are artillery then what do they use for crew? Wouldn't that actually make them better since they can't explode or lose their weapon?

They don't have crew. They just sit there at T7 W2 3+ save. With only a TL missile pod (at BS2) and stuck sitting wherever they land, I don't think they are worth 40 pts. Would much rather have another suit.

Cheesedoodler wrote:
They don't have crew. They just sit there at T7 W2 3+ save. With only a TL missile pod (at BS2) and stuck sitting wherever they land, I don't think they are worth 40 pts. Would much rather have another suit.

Look at my artillery in comparison (though they do take up HS, but oh well) 20 pts gets you 4 wounds, at 7 toughness and a 3+ save. With BS 3 and a really good weapon.... Drones aren't that good.

But they don't stop you from taking suits. They still have a strong weapon on a tough body. The FA and Troop slots never get filled up. Why not toss some points in there. It's not like you can take too many missile pods. And again, they can be decent against flyers.

But they aren't amazing. I understand that. Would I prefer rail rifle or rail gun turrets? Of course. Would I prefer a tougher basic troop over mediocre artillery? Any day. But again, its what is available and it doesn't stink out loud.

On the Furioso, Blood Talons is probably just what everyone had on them, and really its still not too bad to have against hordes. And since FW models are legal you can put them in Lucius Pods to get into melee as soon as they landed (with some risk ofcourse).
Frag Cannon certainly got more useful though, now that AP- is not much of a disadvantage. jumping out of a pod firing Magna Grapple, melta gun and frag cannon can shredd a tank up pretty good.

Taking odd numbers of tyranid units. Just to test the OCD of my opponents I take 17 termagants armed with devourers.

 Jackster wrote:
And since FW models are legal you can put them in Lucius Pods to get into melee as soon as they landed (with some risk ofcourse).

Nope. Blood Angels can't take the Lucius Drop Pod. And thank God for that.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jackster wrote:
And since FW models are legal you can put them in Lucius Pods to get into melee as soon as they landed (with some risk ofcourse).

Nope. Blood Angels can't take the Lucius Drop Pod. And thank God for that.

When did that happen? They used to be able to.