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I was wondering what happened to this thread. I thought it had ballooned to 10+ pages and then I come back later and it is only 3 pages!

In any case, welcome to dakka! Whether man or woman, always good to see another person get into the hobby. And if - in the hypothetical sense - you ever get the chance to play me, don't expect me to take it easy on you in a game. I won't necessarily crush you, but I will make you work for a victory. The only people I take it easy on are new or the very young players who are just learning the game. (And when I say you, I don't mean just the OP). Hey, I believe in equality.

 BryllCream wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
If i were to state an odd trend i noticed with female gamers or women that take any interest in the hobby whatsoever is they generally love to paint. It interests them even if the rest of the hobby doesn't. It confounds me. Women are more artsy overall i guess.

I can think of few girls who would not enjoy the painting side. Even a few aspects of the fluff can seem interesting to them, at least if you explain it in a certain way, though I wouldn't expect any girl who wasn't a nerd to actually read Black Library.

The gaming side itself, they have little interest in. Can't say I blame them, I'm not sure why I play it most of the time

Same here, one of the women I know that plays HATES painting, and has her husband do it for her.

I hate painting... but then again, I'm in to 40k almost entirely for the lore. I was an RPG junkie before I was a 40k junkie.

I think the reason most women seem to like Lizardmen and Tyranids more than the others is because they're the least human, and the "cutest". Women naturally react more to cute things than men(The whole motherly hormone thing), and in all honesty, a Gaunt is adorable when placed next to a chaos marine. Seriously. Lizardmen are cute, adorable little reptilian scamps who will feast upon your civilization, and 'nids follow that concept closely. I'd guess that because women have the option to pick a race that can be equally deadly and cuddly, that's exactly what they pick.

I too have seen many women in my area play nids. Second most used army by women (that i've seen at least) is DE, and I've only ever seen one person play with SoB and it was a woman. I think more woman (and many men as well) would play SoB more if they could, but the ridiculous prices for their metal models and the sub-par at best codex turns people off.

 797th Red Tigers wrote:
I think the reason most women seem to like Lizardmen and Tyranids more than the others is because they're the least human, and the "cutest". Women naturally react more to cute things than men(The whole motherly hormone thing), and in all honesty, a Gaunt is adorable when placed next to a chaos marine. Seriously. Lizardmen are cute, adorable little reptilian scamps who will feast upon your civilization, and 'nids follow that concept closely. I'd guess that because women have the option to pick a race that can be equally deadly and cuddly, that's exactly what they pick.

My ex had some squigs that her ex had given her. She thought they were cute, though she only used them as window dressing

Honestly i gotta say i might feel somewhat bad losing to a woman unless i know they're as experienced as melissia or at least as much as she probably was. I don't know the specifics but even when i was big into 40k i'm sure i'd get steam-rolled by her to where my *ss would be sore. I'm not ashamed to say it either. There are quite a few people that i feel need to be de-throned from time to time however so they don't get too cocky and she might be one of them.

However in the case of a fairly normal nerdy girl that i haven't seen play a lot trouncing me i might feel my ego take a hit. Part of this is more if they were noobier than me so that's both men and women. I mean if a 12 year old beat you that wouldn't exactly be good for your ego. I suppose for me experience means a lot more than their sex even if i do more likely expect pretty girls or pretty people in general to not know what they're doing when it comes to most video games or tabletop games (to be fair they are treated better by some at least and that type of fighting their battles for them can be a bit disgusting and they might just take all the help they receive as normal and become full of themselves for it). If somebody got good really quickly somehow i might be a bit ashamed to lose to them. Then again i think i'm mostly actually refering to people that use the ultimate power lists they read online and use said strategies from the pros so no huge shame in losing to that.

Not to mention part of it is because guys expect a lot from other guys in some cases. It's like a woman beating you in an arm wrestling contest. I'd probably feel bad except in some cases (i sort of know an attractive girl that kickboxes and boxes) but if you should lose even if it's just told to others by the girl that beat you then i'd probably fear more the mocking from others. I dunno i guess it's an ego thing.

People expect guys to be in charge sometimes or to make the first move so whenever they don't people look down on that. Not to mention you couldn't dare hit a girl and not fear every man within a mile coming to beat your *ss. I think in the end it's not about women being oppressed by men or men being oppressed by women in every situation. I figure in some cases a woman might even oppress another woman saying on the whole she fit in too well with a dominating man. In some cases i think that'd be unfair and perhaps said woman actually does stuff because she enjoys it even if women that claim to be feminists actually try to get in the way of her enjoying it. In some cases like this i suppose some feminists (the supposed 'femi-nazis') just see women as a whole and wouldn't care for individual rights or a particular situation for a woman to want something. I feel that isn't right.

My point by this being some people expect men to be the dominant one. I suppose that's more a societal thing but also sometimes both men and women are offenders of upholding these ridiculous standards whatever they may be. I have seen both men and women telling boys not to ever cry or to never hit a girl (even though at that age strength differences are pretty slight but i suppose it's tailored to them for later). Not to mention sometimes there's responsibility with equal rights too (i think melissia mentioned women in the military in combat oriented roles in one case).

So yeah i suppose this is sort of off-topic or half off-topic but i felt it needed to be said.

Once again sorry for the wall of text. It's a bad habit of mine since i rant a lot when i get worked up on something.

The few girls that i see go to the local store, are not treated any differently from the guys that attend.

mind you the majority are them are playing magic and there is only about 1 that plays 40k. she actually plays Grey Knights and paints them extreamly well, and last time i saw her was painting a storm raven puting a detail on it similar to nose art but across the wing, it was a large demon on it (with a GK killing it in the painting).

compared to my low level of painting I belive she enjoys it and dedicates alot more effort them myself. I do not belive her being female has anything to do with it. Merely preference to put alot more effort into her painting.

But this is my only exposure to female war gamers, but she is very kind and as far as im aware she is not treated any differently then the primarily male gamers.

I don't know any girls that play, and all the girls I do know pretty much look down their noses at it.

Maybe it's a regional thing.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't know any girls that play, and all the girls I do know pretty much look down their noses at it.

Maybe it's a regional thing.

It's not. You just need to get to know nerdier girls.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't know any girls that play, and all the girls I do know pretty much look down their noses at it.

Maybe it's a regional thing.

There is maybe 2 maybe 3 "regulars" at my GW store that are women (there have been other female players i've seen, but only 2 or 3 on a regular basis). Most other women you see at the store are clearly another player's girlfriend or whatever. You can tell cause they look VERY uncomfortable being there, though with all the neckbeards that gawk I really can't blame them...

I find this to be very odd. The women in the stores i've been to generally got treated fairly well and were never insulted until they left. Then again generally it was by the *ssholes in the store that are d*cks to everybody so really they're being treated just like everybody else. In fact i'd say i haven't seen guys act like jerks to women in any of these stores i've been to in almost every situation and i've even had the worst GW employee i've ever seen insult me every time i show up just like the jerks always act rude or insult completely without provocation. Then again this is in the GW's i've been to. I really have to say i haven't noticed any really bad treatment towards women in these stores and if anything they are treated too nicely even if some of the guys aren't the best looking and sometimes uncomfortable. To my knowledge quite a few dudes are average or decent looking at the least but very nerdy. The neckbeard thing isn't terribly big from what i've seen. I still think this is more a case of if the girl is pretty or not and really part of it is because most of the girls that are there are very middle ground at best as far as looks or weight is concerned. I mean i'm not the best looking guy though i can look good if i clean myself up. I just don't really try to look good if i'm going to GW. Only guys end up being there and the few girls which ever do show up aren't attractive enough for me to think about fixing myself up for. Then again it's not like i have B.O. that forms an aura around me that i use as a -2 to sexual attraction. It's more like i've gone a day or two without shaving and probably should clean up a bit more. Maybe it's similar to a girl that decided not to wear make-up after going out. I just don't see the point if i'm around a bunch of nerdy guys with poor social skills and such anyway.

As i've said before it's not a matter of you guys being just girls so much as you being gamer girls and even more so if you're attractive. An attractive girl that's a gamer is easily more attractive than one that's even better looking at times that isn't a gamer girl. It's something you have in common. Even if that wasn't the case this is a war-gaming place we're talking here. The guys easily outnumber the girls and the nerd crowd isn't always the most socially versed and at times are outcasts. Seriously i know they might be uncomfortable to you but it sucks to be a dude that has to compete for the affections/attention (or lack thereof) of the one girl in a gaming place and everybody knows they have like no chance ever. Maybe it's intimidating to the few girl gamers but it's intimidating for a bunch of socially awkward dudes. I dunno maybe i'm overstepping myself by saying all this. Maybe they are awkward but some of them are willing to be friendly to the women (admittedly with the thought of 'getting some' which is extremely unlikely btw) and just end up being so bad in social situations that they end up creepy or looking awkward. Besides a lot of this is based on how they look as well. I know plenty of jerks that have been with women and i can tell you if they weren't good looking the women they'd have would number about zero. Said guys probably shouldn't have women anyway. So yeah my other point is if a guy doesn't get many women such as in this case they'll probably treat you as well they can so they don't lose you. Really when you think about it if these guys really don't get many women then there's a possibility that many of them are the best and nicest guys you've ever met that are willing to bend over backwards for you. You'd think such guys would get treated better by women at the very least but i guess that doesn't happen. Then again what do i know.

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't know any girls that play, and all the girls I do know pretty much look down their noses at it.

Maybe it's a regional thing.

There is maybe 2 maybe 3 "regulars" at my GW store that are women (there have been other female players i've seen, but only 2 or 3 on a regular basis). Most other women you see at the store are clearly another player's girlfriend or whatever. You can tell cause they look VERY uncomfortable being there, though with all the neckbeards that gawk I really can't blame them...

I've had much the same experience as Ferrum.

I don't necessarily consider it to be regional, but I think it's just the case for some stores. Plenty of you seem to have stores where girls are well received and well integrated into your gaming community.

At my store, there is one female regular, and she usually just paints and plays at special gimmicky events. Every other girl that has come in has been there to watch/hang with a male friend.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't know any girls that play, and all the girls I do know pretty much look down their noses at it.

Maybe it's a regional thing.

Partially. But not because they like SF and/or 40k any less. I'd have 3 girls playing me on a regular basis if it weren't for Australian prices. They don't get to take the time to fall in love with it, they take one look at the prices and go wtf? really? for some toy soldiers?

CoI wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't know any girls that play, and all the girls I do know pretty much look down their noses at it.

Maybe it's a regional thing.

Partially. But not because they like SF and/or 40k any less. I'd have 3 girls playing me on a regular basis if it weren't for Australian prices. They don't get to take the time to fall in love with it, they take one look at the prices and go wtf? really? for some toy soldiers?

Then act like it's nothing to you. They'll think you're rich and you'll get laid

CoI wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't know any girls that play, and all the girls I do know pretty much look down their noses at it.

Maybe it's a regional thing.

Partially. But not because they like SF and/or 40k any less. I'd have 3 girls playing me on a regular basis if it weren't for Australian prices. They don't get to take the time to fall in love with it, they take one look at the prices and go wtf? really? for some toy soldiers?

Sadly this is the reason nobody i know outside of the store plays the game. I have maybe gotten one person i knew outside of the GW store interested in the game and he never tried to read the rules even a little. I basically lost all interest in playing with him because i did all the work, told him what to do and then steam-rolled him like every time even with an inferior force to what i'd normally be using (basically a WH: fantasy game where i use my skaven's doom flayers). Nobody i know outside the store has the time, money or patience to spend on this game and what few people are interested have no interest in playing unless it's with somebody else's models (total free-loaders).

@bryllcream: Dude if it was really that easy. Then again a friend noticed some pretty attractive girls were interested in me when i was at the bar with him. At least a couple i'd tap but i dunno about having them as a girlfriend. Not to mention they were a bit young for me. I'm fairly sure almost no woman that's older than me has ever been interested in me. I wouldn't be surprised if i met some 30 something year old women that tried flirting with me though. Might be a bit awkward but sometimes even slightly older women can be attractive.

...Most people in general aren't into 40k because it's seen as weird. They may be too polite to say this however and simply say they can't afford it. Such is life.

 BryllCream wrote:
...Most people in general aren't into 40k because it's seen as weird. They may be too polite to say this however and simply say they can't afford it. Such is life.

I suppose that's a possibility. I felt the same way till i played the first 'dawn of war' series with 40k. I played the demos even before getting the games. I very much enjoyed the races. Some people do enjoy it but i suppose it's true some might say they can't afford it. Then again price is usually brought up quite a lot and that probably is the real reason quite often.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Some people do enjoy it but i suppose it's true some might say they can't afford it. Then again price is usually brought up quite a lot and that probably is the real reason quite often.

Most likely. If it was priced more like a regular board game, the "masses" would most likely be a lot more interested. Not that you can't play with just the starter set (or two), of course, but a lot of the regular players consider such a thing blasphemy and probably don't even consider offering that as an option.

LOL the girls are either current or former members of my RPG groups, so the 'too nerdy' thing isn't a problem And I'm married so I'm not so worried about impressing them to get laid :p
Hell, one of them is so nerdy she's getting a tattoo of the guns her character uses in my champaign done up. She looooves that character. At least one of them can afford to buy, but doesn't due to lack of percieved value. But I'm looking around for some awesome non-gw minis for her and the others, but I digress... again. >.<

My gf thinks that Warhammer is stupid / immature / pointless.

But then again she watches Glee, Vampire Diaries and the Twilight movies in her spare time. So she can't talk to me about stupid past times.

CrowSplat wrote:

As to the elevation of women in 40k to near deity status, I think that most of it is due to lack of normal and positive interaction with females in daily life for the average 40k player than anything else.

I think a lot of it is simply that people like it when their romantic partners share some of their interests - with so few ladies into 40k, interest is naturally high when one pops up.

I found the bit on having to overcome one's initial impressions of gamer types interesting, but it's not a uniquely female thing either - I had the same disinterest and misconceptions. It just didn't look that interesting from the outside... Why stand around a table all night when you could be out listening to bands and raising a ruckus, especially from a teenage mindset? Once I gave it a try though, it was a load of fun.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't know any girls that play, and all the girls I do know pretty much look down their noses at it.

Maybe it's a regional thing.

Close to half my playgroup is female. Now I'll grant you we play Warmachine/Hordes these days rather than 40k and that could have something to do with it as the setting is better about integrating women into leadership roles & important events. However, I really think it's more that we're a private gaming club that doesn't really allow stanky neckbeards or the type of folks who may have been expressing some of the more... pointed... opinions in some the previous discussions on this thread.

People don't like being places that make them feel uncomfortable, unwelcome or just play creeped-out. I won't say that gamer are on the whole better than other segments of the population at doing things that make women feel that way, its a pretty widespread thing. I will say they tend to be much better at doing it more overt, less socially acceptable sort of ways.

I got into the game through the fluff. I love to read. I got the first three Horus Heresy books for X-mas one year and have never looked back. I went to a shop with my husband and started talking with the other players about the fluff. Expanded my knowledge then starting watching the games. Asking questions on what and why they were doing what they were doing,

When the new Chaos Codex came out I decided to give it a go. I have always like Chaos. I am more interested in building up a good solid army than making them look nice.

Also I just consider myself a gamer not a girl gamer because if I differentiate myself than that just gives people the right to too. Treat me as a noob because I am new to the game not because I am a girl.

I recently played a game against another Chaos player and he was awesome. Treated me just like a new player not a girl player.

Wait...Lizardmen is a girly army?
That's news to me 0_o

If anything, I thought elves were the girly ones.

I've been playing 40k for about 10 years now, with a rather large lull in the middle. I started playing again right after my wife and I got married and the first thing she said when she saw my tyranid codex was how awesome it looked.

After that I started explaining the rules a bit and before long she picked dark eldar. So i got her one of those mega battle forces (about 1000 - 1200 pts) and she was playing. Gotta say though, she absolutely detests painting. Won't do it in fact. And over time she kinda fell away from it, though she's still up for a game every now and then (with her completely primed white army). But she loves watching me play, and still loves reading the fluff. My favorite thing is when I'm in a store and someone treats her like my arm candy and she will start pointing out design flaws in their army list, and calling them out on very technical rules. hahaha.

 BryllCream wrote:

 797th Red Tigers wrote:
I think the reason most women seem to like Lizardmen and Tyranids more than the others is because they're the least human, and the "cutest". Women naturally react more to cute things than men(The whole motherly hormone thing), and in all honesty, a Gaunt is adorable when placed next to a chaos marine. Seriously. Lizardmen are cute, adorable little reptilian scamps who will feast upon your civilization, and 'nids follow that concept closely. I'd guess that because women have the option to pick a race that can be equally deadly and cuddly, that's exactly what they pick.

My ex had some squigs that her ex had given her. She thought they were cute, though she only used them as window dressing

Squigs ARE cute.

I want one. A real one I mean. It will scare off the neighbor's dogs and stop the fething mutts from barking up a storm at three in the morning every goddamned night.

That, or eat them. But I would prefer to feed it a mixture of sacrificial neckbeards and the tears of the damned over some mangy dogmeat.

There are a few regular 40k players at my local (one SM, One Nid and I think one Eldar)

My wife and oldest daughter play. My wife plays Eldar and Tzeentch Daemons (more into the painting than the playing though..) and my daughter has a small Nid force.

She's better off painting-wise than me though, as the rule is that she only gets a new unit when the last one is done

I think part of the problem is that the game is touted all too often as a boys game/men only thing. The sweaty neckbeards at many FLGS's that put out a real-life Aura of Decay don't help, and neither does the tendency to gawk, lech or attempt to explain the game in a condescending manner to the 'little girl/woman'.

My daughter ran into a kid a bit older than her (about 10) a a game store a bit back (she's a very precocious 7) who basically told her that his Marines were the bestest army, and they are boys only. No girls allowed. They would smash anything flat, and nuffin' could stop them, because they were boys.

So she challenged him to a game, and her Nids were well fed


Automatically Appended Next Post:
His mom wasn't amused that my daughter 'bullied' him by winning either ...

 Ascalam wrote:
His mom wasn't amused that my daughter 'bullied' him by winning either ...

Overprotective parents are always silly like that.

I've seen the good and bad, a bit.

My girlfriend and I had a bit of a gift of the magi moment starting into 40k. We had visited our FLGS and we were checking out the wargaming stuff. I mentioned I liked the CSM stuff and new a little bit of the lore, and that I may be interested in starting. She took a shine to some of the ork vehicles. So, later, I picked up a battlewagon kit for her to paint. I knew she digs steampunk a bit and she used to paint quite a bit. Meanwhile, I didn't know that she went and purchased therule book and a copy of AoBR for me. So weren't we both pleasantly surprised come Christmas when we exchanged gifts, and had a good laugh. So that's how we started. We're still building and painting CSM and Ork armies. She loves her kan wall and keeps thinking of ways to incorporate grots into kitbashes. She doesn't like building, however, so I generally cut, glue and mod to her specification, but she does enjoy painting quite a bit and has even painting a few models for my army.

Meanwhile, while at that same FLGS on another occasion, I've seen the creeper factor in full effect. The shop has about 5 regular employees, 2 of them women. We were looking at dice in a display case with the younger female employee. We hear a click and flash from behind us. All three of us turn to see a man who has come out of the play section of the store holding a cell phone up, having taken a picture of the clerk. Before we could say anything he blurts out "Sorry" and scuttled back to the tables, out of sight. After a moment, I turn back to the clerk and ask "Do you get that a lot?" With a somewhat confused look she just responded "No.", shook off the creepiness, and we went back to looking at dice with her. We genuinely felt bad for her.

As much as I love my girlfriend, the cattiest I've ever seen her was at a different FLGS. Upon seeing an entry in a painting contest submitted by another female, she immediately went dark. To the side, she immediately started nitpicking everything about the model and the submitter. Needless to say, I laughed and called her out on her cattiness. I think that ruffled her feathers even further. The reason? Even though she paints and plays on occasion and encourages me to hobby (she likes seeing me take interest in constructive activities), she always makes fun of it. It's in good fun and I take it as such. This is the one time I've ever seen her that competitive and catty, and there she was getting aggressive about plastic army mans.

Meanwhile, we have a severe aversion to neckbeards. There are a number of FLGS neither of us will visit due to a) cleanliness of the business, b) neckbeard factor of owners/customers, and c) social issues with owners/customers. This transcends gender in our case, however I feel that women are a magnet for that sort of attention, so in agreement with the girlfriend, I try and intercept and deflect oddballs who want to talk *at* her at shops, so that we can make our purchases and move along.