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I have heard it discussed, but I cannot find any reference to Azrael giving the squad he joins 4++, but I hear a lot about it. Is is true?
If so, 50 guardsmen with 5 poweraxes with Azrael will be a scary combo!

Codex Dark Angels: Page 53 read the entry for the lion helm.

I have no idea what does that lion helm does, but due to how Krellnus replied i assume it says something like, any unit from the codex: dark angels which contains a model with this gets 4++, excluding the IG from it.

 Lord Yayula wrote:
I have no idea what does that lion helm does, but due to how Krellnus replied i assume it says something like, any unit from the codex: dark angels which contains a model with this gets 4++, excluding the IG from it.

There is no such restriction, guardsmen are fine.

Guardsmen aren't from Codex: Dark Angels though.

MarsNZ wrote:
Guardsmen aren't from Codex: Dark Angels though.

There is no stipulation requiring them to be so.

The lion helm confers a 4+ invulnerable save to azrael and his unit.

Lion Helm did that in the previous dex also, just few knew or leveraged it when 6ed came out.

What people are doing that isn't allowed is applying the warlord traits to non-DA units (Feel no pain in particular).

haroon wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:
I have no idea what does that lion helm does, but due to how Krellnus replied i assume it says something like, any unit from the codex: dark angels which contains a model with this gets 4++, excluding the IG from it.

There is no such restriction, guardsmen are fine.

Seems like codex: Scrubs for space marines is about to get some more use.

Seriously though, what Marine codex ISN'T abusing IG allies at this point?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

haroon wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:
I have no idea what does that lion helm does, but due to how Krellnus replied i assume it says something like, any unit from the codex: dark angels which contains a model with this gets 4++, excluding the IG from it.

There is no such restriction, guardsmen are fine.

Seems like codex: Scrubs for space marines is about to get some more use.

Seriously though, what Marine codex ISN'T abusing IG allies at this point?

Why wouldn't you take advantage of arguably the strongest codex in the game AND benefit from battle brothers?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 winterman wrote:
Lion Helm did that in the previous dex also, just few knew or leveraged it when 6ed came out.

What people are doing that isn't allowed is applying the warlord traits to non-DA units (Feel no pain in particular).

What? Battle-brothers can benefit from Warlord traits, which is why Allies of Convenience mentions specifically that Allies of convenience do not, and none of the Dark Angels warlord traits specify only Dark Angels units benefit.

That warlord trait (The FNP one) actually requires DA units, unlike say, the one that gives furious charge.

 winterman wrote:
What people are doing that isn't allowed is applying the warlord traits to non-DA units (Feel no pain in particular).

To be fair though it's written two different ways. The summary makes it sound like it can apply to the unit he's with and the table in the front of the bestiary is more specific and excludes units.

I was guilty of oopsy myself, not that it mattered as every army I played was majority 6+ strength....

Nothing wrong with sticking him in a 50 man blob. He increases the durability a reasonable degree by being there.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Nothing wrong with sticking him in a 50 man blob. He increases the durability a reasonable degree by being there.

But he's increasing the durability of what is essentially gak. When you're worried about your generic guardsman living, you're doing it wrong.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
Nothing wrong with sticking him in a 50 man blob. He increases the durability a reasonable degree by being there.

But he's increasing the durability of what is essentially gak. When you're worried about your generic guardsman living, you're doing it wrong.

That's a silly way to look at it. You aren't using the Guardsmen to punch face. You're using them to sit on an objective (or two...big unit) and sling Lascannon fire usually. Do you really want them all running off the board from one round of shooting from a Manticore?

Increasing their survivability is really important. It frees up the other N - 600 points of your army to go beat the snot out of the other guy.

The big question is "Is the 215 pts on Azzy worth it"
That depends on what you have in your squad, and if you can get cover from other sources.

If your able to get a 5+ cover save, then the 4+ invuln only decreases the chance of a MEQ bolter killing a guard from 29.56% to 22.17%. Its not that great. Its good, but not that great.
If your out in the open though, it changes the chance of a MEQ bolter killing the guard from 44.35% to 22.17%, which is quite significant.

The second question is what's in your blob?
If your sporting 5 lascannons/autocannons, 5 flamers/melta guns, and 3-5 power weapons, then yea -- adding in the special character with ATSKNF and the 4++ save is worth it.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
That's a silly way to look at it. You aren't using the Guardsmen to punch face. You're using them to sit on an objective (or two...big unit) and sling Lascannon fire usually. Do you really want them all running off the board from one round of shooting from a Manticore?

So you're saying blob 50 guardsmen, then add 215pts to their cost to hold one objective max. You know what else works? MSU.

labmouse42 wrote:The big question is "Is the 215 pts on Azzy worth it"

In my opinion no. I can get an ADL and a RP with divination for 150pts overall. That's better at keeping them alive, and makes them more damaging during the time they are alive.

Well, its doubtful you will get all 50 guys behind an ADL. Though you can go to ground behind one for a 2+ save, and then use "Get back into the fight" to pull yourself out.

That alone is pretty darn cool.

 labmouse42 wrote:


The second question is what's in your blob?
If your sporting 5 lascannons/autocannons, 5 flamers/melta guns, and 3-5 power weapons, then yea -- adding in the special character with ATSKNF and the 4++ save is worth it.

You mean Fearless, Furious Charge and 4++, right?

Admittedly I dont think I would field Azrael just for that, but Death/Raven or Doublewing can make use of a bunch of cheap 4++ guys anyway.

 Jackster wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:


The second question is what's in your blob?
If your sporting 5 lascannons/autocannons, 5 flamers/melta guns, and 3-5 power weapons, then yea -- adding in the special character with ATSKNF and the 4++ save is worth it.

You mean Fearless, Furious Charge and 4++, right?

Admittedly I dont think I would field Azrael just for that, but Death/Raven or Doublewing can make use of a bunch of cheap 4++ guys anyway.

and preferred enemy CSM

 Jackster wrote:
[
You mean Fearless, Furious Charge and 4++, right?

Well, Fearless, Perferred Enemy CSM, and the 4++
Furious Charge does not pass to the unit. He does not get ATSKNF. Its a shame as ATSKNF is better than Fearless.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Jackster wrote:
[
You mean Fearless, Furious Charge and 4++, right?

Well, Fearless, Perferred Enemy CSM, and the 4++
Furious Charge does not pass to the unit. He does not get ATSKNF. Its a shame as ATSKNF is better than Fearless.

For the Lion! does it for the Warlord and his unit. (Not just DA units like Hold At All Costs that people kept mistakenly use)