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nkelsch wrote:
think it is 'ok' that you should be forced to pledge the new kickstarter to access the 'ask a question' button

You have access to that option without being a backer.

 RiTides wrote:
Did he respond to you, nkelsch?

Not yet. I sent a second email tonight to the stewart email everyone seems to be contacting for refunds. It is about a week since I emailed the default form which seems to show the form on the default website does not work. So that is 3 emails total.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cyporiean wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
think it is 'ok' that you should be forced to pledge the new kickstarter to access the 'ask a question' button

You have access to that option without being a backer.

That will be next. Not sure why people were telling me to 'pledge a dollar' so I could talk to the kickstarter.

Nobody said it's ok to be ignored through the webpage contact form. However, SEVERAL people by now have told you SEVERAL ways to get replacements, most of which has worked for them. However, you're adamant on going on about how you're the poor victim because you've continuously tried to contact them through the webpage and gotten NO replies and yet somehow, you insist on banging your head against that wall. Seriously, how bout trying one of the other methods.

And how are people forcing you to pledge to a new KS? You DO realise the old contact me button on the DB KS STILL WORKS don't you? You did pledge for DB didn't you? Use the contact button on the DB KS page and contact them. And for that matter, you DON'T EVEN need to pledge to contact KS creators. I contacted SW regarding their tablescape KS before I even pledged for it so I have no idea what you're smoking here.

You're pretty much a classic example of 'the customer isn't always right'. Seriously, if you have this many issues, you shouldn't consider pledging for DZ and yet you apparently are -_-

Sining wrote:
Nobody said it's ok to be ignored through the webpage contact form. However, SEVERAL people by now have told you SEVERAL ways to get replacements, most of which has worked for them. However, you're adamant on going on about how you're the poor victim because you've continuously tried to contact them through the webpage and gotten NO replies and yet somehow, you insist on banging your head against that wall. Seriously, how bout trying one of the other methods.

And how are people forcing you to pledge to a new KS? You DO realise the old contact me button on the DB KS STILL WORKS don't you? You did pledge for DB didn't you? Use the contact button on the DB KS page and contact them. And for that matter, you DON'T EVEN need to pledge to contact KS creators. I contacted SW regarding their tablescape KS before I even pledged for it so I have no idea what you're smoking here.

You're pretty much a classic example of 'the customer isn't always right'. Seriously, if you have this many issues, you shouldn't consider pledging for DZ and yet you apparently are -_-

I did try other methods... What other methods for replacements and refunds are there besides contacting the stewart person? I have emailed Stewart twice. Do I have to do it 3 times?

And I am not the person who posted 'hey pledged Deadzone and then you get a better response' that is what I was told in one of these mantic threads. People are falling over themelves to make excuses for mantic when mantic can just handle their business like a real company, by responding to their customers. I am not sure contacting a company via their official 'contact us' methods on their website should be classified as someone banging their head on the wall. Not every customer is going to be able to get access to this secret staff email the way I did and many customers may straight up feel they have no other way to get response except via the official form on their website. So blame the customer more because you claim he isn't trying hard enough to get his issue resolved? Water carrying at it's finest.

Twice over a span of how long? 1 hour? 2 hours? One day? It took 2 days for me to get a reply. Azazel got his within a day. Saying you emailed him 2x means nothing without a time frame

And super secret staff email? Seriously? I pmed Mantic on KS and got the email from them. Considering you have so many avenues to try and get a response, including posting on their own forum/facebook if need be, I find it hard to consider someone would just limit themselves to constantly bombarding the webpage email; especially when according to them, it doesn't work.

And yes, I am blaming you because several people have told you by now several alternatives to get your issue resolved. This isn't EVEN the first time they've told you that iirc. And yet you insist that "NO, OFFICIAL EMAIL IS THE WAY" and then when it fails a lot; according to you, you just end up complaining on dakkadakka. How's that working out for you btw? Does all that complaining get you any closer to getting your replacements?

Also, I'm not saying Mantic shouldn't regularly reply to their normal email but I've never emailed them using that so I really have no idea how regularly they reply to it; other than having nkelsch's word for it.

Sining wrote:
Twice over a span of how long? 1 hour? 2 hours? One day? It took 2 days for me to get a reply. Azazel got his within a day. Saying you emailed him 2x means nothing without a time frame

And super secret staff email? Seriously? I pmed Mantic on KS and got the email from them. Considering you have so many avenues to try and get a response, including posting on their own forum/facebook if need be, I find it hard to consider someone would just limit themselves to constantly bombarding the webpage email; especially when according to them, it doesn't work.

And yes, I am blaming you because several people have told you by now several alternatives to get your issue resolved. This isn't EVEN the first time they've told you that iirc. And yet you insist that "NO, OFFICIAL EMAIL IS THE WAY" and then when it fails a lot; according to you, you just end up complaining on dakkadakka. How's that working out for you btw? Does all that complaining get you any closer to getting your replacements?

Also, I'm not saying Mantic shouldn't regularly reply to their normal email but I've never emailed them using that so I really have no idea how regularly they reply to it; other than having nkelsch's word for it.

3 times over a week. I emailed Stewart 2 days ago when told his email and re-emailed tonight with added feedback over the lack of response fromt he official form and no response. How much more water do you need to carry to keep telling me that this is all ok and don't look behind the curtian? Does it hurt to constantly carry people's water? I have jumped through every hoop presented via the bucket brigade.

Since you say emailing the KS directly will just get me this Stewart's email... how many times do I need to email the KS to get another email which I have already emailed? Please provide the 'Several' avenues, since to this point,t here only seems to be 1. Email stewart.

1. email stewart 2.post on their forums 3. pm KS; which inevitably will also give you stewarts email, 4. call them 5.post on their facebook

Considering you use a forum on the internet, I can't believe you're not savvy enough to think of this.

As for Stewart not replying you within 2 days, I'm guessing that you're an outlier for whatever reason; perhaps random ranting and raving during the emails? I can attest I've gotten replies from Stewart within 2 days for most of my emails. I think most of the others have had the same experience. And yet, only you seem to have an issue, kinda like how your robots are the worst I (and most other people) have seen. I'm guessing it's not fated for you to buy Mantic -_-

Also, don't think of this as me liking Mantic a lot. It's more I have a proportionate dislike for loud ranty people online.

Sining wrote:
1. email stewart 2.post on their forums 3. pm KS; which inevitably will also give you stewarts email, 4. call them 5.post on their facebook

Considering you use a forum on the internet, I can't believe you're not savvy enough to think of this.

As for Stewart not replying you within 2 days, I'm guessing that you're an outlier for whatever reason; perhaps random ranting and raving during the emails? I can attest I've gotten replies from Stewart within 2 days for most of my emails. I think most of the others have had the same experience. And yet, only you seem to have an issue, kinda like how your robots are the worst I (and most other people) have seen. I'm guessing it's not fated for you to buy Mantic -_-

Also, don't think of this as me liking Mantic a lot. It's more I have a proportionate dislike for loud ranty people online.

And yet, there are people not even 8 posts ago who said it took over a week, and then they suggested 'pledging a dollar' to get their attention.

And considering forum posting and PM KS = Email Stewart, and I am already under attack by Bucket Brigaders like you... It seems like from discussing on Dakka, I found the end of the yellow brick road here. Email Stewart... So I have done that. But that doesn't seem to be good enough for you.

Notice, I was perfectly willing to sit and wait for my email over the weekend before you felt the need to take personal quips with your rude posts in your rush to defend a company with indefensible customer service issues. A Company trading in millions of dollars of product should be expected to have a functional 'contact us' via email system without customers having to dig to social media or other means to find direct employee contacts to get results. You can't defend that as valid.

So guys, how about dreadball?

Who has played a game?

I have. It is fun.

Sining wrote:

As for Stewart not replying you within 2 days, I'm guessing that you're an outlier for whatever reason; perhaps random ranting and raving during the emails? I can attest I've gotten replies from Stewart within 2 days for most of my emails. I think most of the others have had the same experience.

I imagine the "number of days" can be influenced a little by things like weekends and the international date line. I've had more than 1 email to/from him, and I'm not always getting 1-day replies. I haven't seen nkelsch's emails to Stewart, but tone may be a factor. The emails I've personally sent have been polite - and pretty much with the kind of tone that this post has. That is to say, polite and semi-formal, semi-casual, but neither angry nor fellative in tone.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scarletsquig wrote:
So guys, how about dreadball?
Who has played a game?
I have. It is fun.

I haven't had time to learn or play it. I spend too much time posting on Dakka and have no other friends (besides my wife) who seem to know anything about Mantic in my area - though I did get invited to a DB group on the other side of my city. I'll need to paint something and learn the rules at some stage before I meet those guys, though. My regular gaming group seems to only want to play LAN Borderlands 2 and Torchlight 2 at the moment.

I went through my Season 1 stuff finally today to QA it. I've got some broken goblin ears, some skaven with slight shoulderpad damage due to twisting off of the sprues, and 1 skaven and 2 enforcers who need to have a dip in hot water to see if they'll be ok or need replacing. At some stage after that I need to look carefully through the Season 2 figures for QA. Yay!

While I agree nkelsch's tone and constant barrage are annoying, I also agree with him that any company regardless of the content of the message should reply. It's obvious he's a very upset vocal customer and they should try to get in touch with him and replace his miscast models. I also think it's unacceptable their website form doesn't work (I have used it and got no response as well). I am a mostly-fan of Mantic, except for a bunch of stuff I think is crap (trolls, captain grumpy pants, goofball marauder orx) and I understand they are growing faster than they can handle, but not responding to an irate customer is unacceptable. I sincerely do hope Stew does respond and they replace your miscast models, because I do hope you get good models so that you can play a game or three of Dreadball as it is a great game.

Redacted by Mannahnin

Oh, they should absolutely get back to him regardless of anything else. Being realistic though, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, so if he is rude/angry/abrasive (which is all completely speculative) then his emails might get answered a bit slower than others.

On a brighter note, I just tried the hot/cold water trick to see if I could fix the Skaven and Enforcers. It appears to have worked really quickly and easily - more easily than any other material I've done it with in the past. If they hold their new shape by the same time tomorrow, I'll be very happy. If not, it'll be "send me a replacement" time.

 Bolognesus wrote:
Edited by Mannahnin It does not take more effort or time to clear the somewhat larger looking mold lines with an even moderately appropriate tool whatsoever.

So injection points which twist off the mold and damage the eyeball of a model is a simple slice fo the razorblade to resculpt the detail?

And the lines are in places where scraping off the line doesn't cause you to scrape off parts of the face or detail?

I don't think your excuses are great selling points. "models are hard, advance skills only" isn't an appropriate response to damaged molding. Especially when they have clearly said there are issues... Edited by Mannahnin.

PVC stuff holds shape quite well with the hot/cold trick. Never skip he cold water though - then they tend to bend about halfway back over the following weeks if the weather is even a bit warm (I'm guessing Australians get that, sometimes? )

Bolo - you're probably drifting a bit far into the "personal attack" category there, so you might want to do some editing...

nkelsch wrote:
And yet, there are people not even 8 posts ago who said it took over a week, and then they suggested 'pledging a dollar' to get their attention.

And considering forum posting and PM KS = Email Stewart, and I am already under attack by Bucket Brigaders like you... It seems like from discussing on Dakka, I found the end of the yellow brick road here. Email Stewart... So I have done that. But that doesn't seem to be good enough for you.

Notice, I was perfectly willing to sit and wait for my email over the weekend before you felt the need to take personal quips with your rude posts in your rush to defend a company with indefensible customer service issues. A Company trading in millions of dollars of product should be expected to have a functional 'contact us' via email system without customers having to dig to social media or other means to find direct employee contacts to get results. You can't defend that as valid.

1 other person suggested that, before mentioning he got a reply within 2 days as well when he tried another avenue; ie KS PM. Notice how other people are trying new stuff when shockingly enough, the previous attempt elicited no response? Just something to keep in mind for when you inevitably get season 3 -_-

I agree, they should have a functional contact us via email system. There's no argument there. I've never said anything about how that was acceptable. Instead my posts have been along the vein of 'okay, this didn't work. Stop complaining about it and try some other methods'. Or really, learn to use an 'inside' type of voice when typing on the internet

scarletsquig wrote:So guys, how about dreadball?

Who has played a game?

I have. It is fun.

Played several. Still pretty hard to get opponents over here.

Too right. It's a chilly 17.5C (63.5F) winter day today.
Which I believe is just outside of sunbathing weather for those in the UK. 22C or so?

nkelsch wrote:
So injection points which twist off the mold and damage the eyeball of a model is a simple slice fo the razorblade to resculpt the detail?

And the lines are in places where scraping off the line doesn't cause you to scrape off parts of the face or detail?

I don't think your excuses are great selling points. "models are hard, advance skills only" isn't an appropriate response to damaged molding. Especially when they have clearly said there are issues...

None of which even remotely touches upon your army of strawmen. Have dun with those 'posts.
As to damaged models well, anyone who's actually asked for a replacement seems to have gotten it so far - I'm going with more bad faith on your part in not making that work by now.
As to mold lines damaging material well, most of the 'lines I've cleared were not in places I haven't encountered them on metal models in years' past. Were I still sufficiently charitable to assume you've spent some of your time in this hobby actually modelling metal instead of straw I would guess so would you have. Aince PS sprues won't even hold he detail to he sides which PVC does no, seeing this on plastic kits is sometimes new. Often in places which o a GW sprue could barely have been more than featureless though. Net win, generally speaking and as said, nothing I haven't seen on metal before. Except PVC is way easier to clean.
As to the faces, hey, I have issues with that as well. Shame it takes you the page count of a small dissertation to fet to your first salient point, though.

You are not making sense... I posted photos of Zzor with mold injection damage to their cheeks which extended to the eyeballs due to the way they were torn from the sprue opposed to being snipped or cut off the sprue. I also posted images where injection points damaged shoulders and feet and other detail. And some models have lines across areas hard to clean without scraping away detail, like on rat tails where you have to carve out every ridge on the tail, down Helga's face, inside the palm of the Orx.

I don't know what you are even talking about in regards to metal models... Or what you are talking about in regards to GW?

Strawman strawman strawman? I am not sure how photographic documentation and confirmation from the company the product was flawed equates to a strawman.

Ooof coirse you wouldn't; you conveniently forget all he previous strawmen in your rants I pointed out. Goalposts, again.
As for reading comprehension: I never doubted you have actual, damaged models due to twisting. I do know that those with a modicum of communication skills have had no issues obtaining replacements in such cases. Damage sometimes occurs; reasonable customers take reasonable steps to give a company a chance to remedy such issues. Of course you seem not to be very good with 'reasonable'.

Your self-indicated complete lack of comprehension makes it impossible to even get into the issue of detail and mould lines in hard moulds any further; I'm going to assume plain bad faih here since it seems to fit best.
For other readers: a steel tool has a pull direction. Raised/lowered detail directly parralel to this direction is easy to cast; detail perpendicular thereto is impossible (since an inflexible mold would tear each cast apart as it is pulled). Now flexible (rubber) molds suh as used for metal models do not have this issue; the flex around the model when it is pulled. This is why undercuts exist in metal/resin models, but not in hard plastic. Rhis is not all, however. As has been explained on this forum several times (and I'm hardly an expert either, just repeating what those who are have explained) PS such as we're used to in GW or Mantic or Revell sprues seemst to not tale detail to the sides (as opposed to that area facing the mold half) too well, even if the tool itself could accomodate it. This means that while there's going to be large area's with very little detail which need hiding through the model design, the silver lining is that mold lines tend to run through areas with all the fine detail of a sand desert. Ever wondered why many metal models can have way nastier mold lines at times, running right through all kinds of detail? Here's why: rubber molds do allow for that.
Now what was said here several times is that PVC type plastics don't suffer from his as much. Still no undercuts of course (because of rigid tooling) but more detail all across. This will mean tha there's more detail in areas which contain mold lines too. Of course, in PS there would just have been no detail, and even if they look daunting they're actually quite easy to clean (much easier than metal, for sure!), this will hardly keep agamemnon2.1 here from his latest pityful rant.
Of couelrse, since it seems i must repeat even that which I already stated just to keep certain posters from conveniently finding anoher irrelevant tangent, this doesn't excuse the 'mold line to the face' issue.
...which in turn in no way excuses nkelsches incoherent ranting.

 Azazelx wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:
So guys, how about dreadball?
Who has played a game?
I have. It is fun.

I haven't had time to learn or play it. I spend too much time posting on Dakka and have no other friends (besides my wife) who seem to know anything about Mantic in my area - though I did get invited to a DB group on the other side of my city. I'll need to paint something and learn the rules at some stage before I meet those guys, though. My regular gaming group seems to only want to play LAN Borderlands 2 and Torchlight 2 at the moment.

Same here, pretty much... I've played a few games, but found it a bit tricky to get started due to the complexity of the cards. It plays quite smoothly and is fun, but I find the cards thing a bit odd since I'm not used to using cards in wargaming... still need to adjust since I never understand what the hell is going on when watching people play MTG or similar.

The cards are optional though, so I have more fun with the game when choosing to ignore them.

Deadzone is going to be even stranger for me to pick up since the whole thing revolves around that kind of "draw cards" gameplay where I really don't have a clue what I'm doing. I've read the beta and understand how it plays, I'm just not sure if it's the kind of thing I'll get into properly rather than just good 'ol dice and minis.

I think I'd definitely recommend the kick-off set to anyone new getting into the game, more because of the lowered complexity (no cards, no ref) than the lowered price tag.

Yeah, not fond of the cards myself. I'm really curious why they're in the game for DZ other than a 'hey, this is one way the game ends other than killing everybody' kind of scenario.

Keep it polite, folks.

Personal insults have no place here, and are violations of your terms of use.

 Compel wrote:
A great response from mantic on that thread. I really am impressed.

I'd be more impressed if the game-breaking bug wasn't one that I recognised within a minute of looking at the preview rules.

In regards to what ScarletSquig has said - think the cards (and ref for that matter) are definitely optional when you start playing. The game is really fluid and fast moving, and even more so when you learn the rules. Think the cards slow that down a bit (and give you too much to think about when you first start playing), but having said that make it a bit more fun when you start playing repeatedly. I suppose it's similar to Blood Bowl in that the old expansion cards added a lot to that game in terms of fun, although the cards in DB are nothing like as powerful.

Overall though think the game is a lot of fun - I can see it becoming massively popular with clubs simply because it is quite easy to get into, it's got a broadly appealing style and the buy-in price is so low. I'm already seeing a lot of leagues/tournaments popping up around for it, so I guess it is definitely starting to gain steam. Very sorry to hear that people have had some bad experiences with the mini quality (and think it's desperately unlucky for Nkelsch, who seems to be worst affected when he was already doing the equivalent of holding a well-worn, stinking sock with a pair of tweezers and holding his nose with regards to Mantic, long before this game came along!) - I'm gingerly waiting for my 2nd season stuff on account of that, although if they're anything like that bad they will go back for a replacement.

For some reason I have a bit more leniency with regards to Mantic making some production foul-ups - there's has no doubt come from a rushed production schedule with a tiny company, and trying to satisfy demand with a new supply chain and the rest of it. Somewhat more acceptable than a massive, well-established company with vast amounts of money that knows they have released a sub-standard product to the market (and a significant drop in quality to their previous releases) and yet chooses to keep selling it several years after the initial release. Picture images of cackling fat men, sat in a jacuzzi tub full of champagne, smoking cigars and laughing at the low expectations of their customers (or.. actually, don't! )

I did try other methods... What other methods for replacements and refunds are there besides contacting the stewart person? I have emailed Stewart twice. Do I have to do it 3 times?

Yes there are problems with the form right now, but the KS-contact form always worked. Also I wonder what tone you wrote your mails in. Nearly everybocy that had complained to Stewart got a response within 1-4 days, which is quite normal.

The mold lines are mostly not a problem, they might seem huge, but are rather thin seen from the side and can easily be removed. Now there are some miscast pieces and some models where the tabs got twistes off instead of being cut off. Those are a reason to complain about with Mantic. But seeing how nearly everyone wants to help you and gets aggressive responses...

@warped bases
That´s actually not a problem. Just get a good hairdryer, put it at hottest setting, blow at the base for 10 secs max. and then quickly put it on a level stone/ceramic/etc. tile and it ist straight as hell. Work for the whole miniature too if anything ist bent out of shape. Heck, it even works for Finecast and FW resin and you don´t even need cold water.

Have played dozens of games. It's absolutely fantastic. If people say yeah its broken the rules are unbalanced blah blah blah without actually playing the game then i say balls to you! Go out and actually play the game. And its the usual faces who are constantly complaining, sometimes I think they complain just for the sake of it. Its gotten to the point where I see the usual names and skip there posts.

I'm having trouble getting traction with dreadball at my gaming club. A lot of the old guard *really* dislike mantic. (EG, they're fond of saying: "the only reason they're doing kickstarter is because mantic are so insolvent they can't go to a bank for a loan. Kickstarter is the only thing keeping the company afloat.") These are the type of people into blood bowl, SAGA and warhammer fantasy.

However, some of the warmachine players got into the kickstarter, though they haven't really played the game at the club yet. They do like chatting about dreadball with me though.

The best success I've had at inviting people for demo games is the 40kers. - Either that or they're just really polite about it! They've all been saying it's a "good wee game." I suppose the proof in the pudding will be if any of them buy into kick-off.

As for the cards, they're not too clearly explained but in my last game, I think I managed to work out a way to explain them.

You have the Card Deck. A Discard Pile and an Event Card.

Once an Event Card is drawn from the Card Deck unless it's The Ball Shatters, it remains in play.

Only one Event Card can be in play at once. Once an event card is placed, the old one goes into the Discard Pile.

---------------------

However, 'Fan Support' checks make this a little bit more complicated.

Normally a 'Fan Support' check just means, you take a card over, count the number of dots and put it under your 'Home' or 'Visitors' card. Once you get a total of 3 dots, you get an extra dreadball dice and the used cards get squirrelled away for counting up after the game.

However, if you get an Event Card it also counts for your Fan totals. However, it also also remains in play - So you can't keep it under your Home/Visitors card, cause you need to see what it does!

Dreadball has been prominently featured over at Dropzone Games, a store local to me, but I don't know if they've gotten leagues going or not... I'm very interested in trying it out once Season 3 hits and I can get my tentacled team