Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I still think the dancing sniper is stupid. Dumb. Asinine.

Does that help?

 CptJake wrote:
I still think the dancing sniper is stupid. Dumb. Asinine.

Does that help?

Have we even seen it since the first views that everyone was complaining about?

^I haven't seen a new iteration of it yet. So...perhaps not. I wasn't too fond of the sketch, but I just thought it was goofy. The model itself may be a fantastic sculpt, just a weird pose. Still, there two snipers: you hate one, the other works. I'll likely offer my dancing sniper, as the pose doesn't do anything for me.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

Most of the people who disliked the Orx voiced their opinions before, corrections have been made and MOST people have changed their viewpoints for the positive. Not all, but a big enough swing that those "issues" clearly come down to personal taste. So no, Orx certainly don't fall into the screw up category, otherwise even the fixes would have been met with a similar level of criticism.

Not sure how you can say that most of the people like the new stuff. How do you arrive at that? Seriously. Most people don't follow the development of these figures as closely as we on Dakka do. The majority probably haven't even seen the "fixed" figures. It sure seems hard enough to find good pictures of the figures, and Mantic seem in no hurry to put any out.

Also, a great deal of the "fixes" for the Marauders seem to not even have been implemented. The big one that sticks out to me is the Ripper suit with ranged weapons. I could be wrong, but I seem to recall them saying they were going to reposition his arms to be, you know, aiming his weapons. That definitely didn't happen. Then there is the "running" figure who looks like he is falling on his face, the shotgun Marauder hugging his gun, etc. All these things were complained about (i.e.: problems) and yet somehow still exist. The majority of the Marauders line falls into the Screw Up category for me, and I'm certain I'm not alone.

All of this; every last bitch and nit-pick (from me and anyone else here), ultimately comes down to personal taste. I'm not willing to accept that poorly executed crap quietly. That's all.

~Eric



Automatically Appended Next Post:

pretre wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
I still think the dancing sniper is stupid. Dumb. Asinine.

Does that help?

Have we even seen it since the first views that everyone was complaining about?

timetowaste85 wrote:^I haven't seen a new iteration of it yet. So...perhaps not. I wasn't too fond of the sketch, but I just thought it was goofy. The model itself may be a fantastic sculpt, just a weird pose. Still, there two snipers: you hate one, the other works. I'll likely offer my dancing sniper, as the pose doesn't do anything for me.

Nope, it's still bad.

Personally I'm still not a fan of the Marauders even after the changes they are unlikely to ever see the gaming table, the regular goblin sniper and leader are good the rest are mediocre to bad. Winterdyne has done a great job of making them look better than they are but you can't hide the oversized hands, weird poses and facial expressions and as for the hounds :( - I was prepared to write off the Marauders for the rest of the game contents.

 Taarnak wrote:
Nope, it's still bad.

At least that's down to taste. I think he's cool. Looks like he's saying 'I got one!'

 pretre wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:
Nope, it's still bad.

At least that's down to taste. I think he's cool. Looks like he's saying 'I got one!'

Yes right, I give it a week after release until we see a diorama in the painting section of one of those stood on the chest of a space marine.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
And mentioning nkelsch...best just to tune out at this point.

I'm pro-Mantic in a big way, and unnecessary trolling aside, nkelsch's post on the previous page is spot on.

As to the Marauders, broadly speaking I like the models, but the Marauders, and the dancing sniper is the worst culprit, suffer from trying to be Warhammer-humour in a universe where it just doesn't gel with the rest of the factions. It works for Dreadball because a) the whole background is done it that style and b) it's explained as Corporation marketing hype. It works in 40k because the whole setting is over-the top-ridiculous, I like the KoW fluff, but it has a similar issue, suddenly it'll goes Warhammer-silly (unsurprisingly the Goblins are the worst offenders). As I said in the KS-comments to the original Asterian -not-Wraithguard fluff, they need to sell me their fluff in their game and stop making me feel like they'd rather be playing 40k.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Kroot, that said, can you find any fault with the Deadzone stuff?

It is not yet released, so enough opportunities still to botch it with Mantic's non-existent feedback loops and quality control
That said, I don't follow the previews too closely as they are not my style (I find Orks and power armour guys uninteresting).
But:
1.) Orks (minus dogs and big Tasmanian Devil) look okay for Orks.
2.) Winged Kroot looks okay (waiting for Tau Air caste, bought their Dreadball team).
3.) General Ironman design looks okay, non-Deadzone miniatures have few and odd poses and too thin knees.
4.) Pimp suffers from distorted proportions as many Mantic miniatures do.
5.) Terrain is super bland, even the cheap Russian sprues have more character.

 Taarnak wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

Most of the people who disliked the Orx voiced their opinions before, corrections have been made and MOST people have changed their viewpoints for the positive. Not all, but a big enough swing that those "issues" clearly come down to personal taste. So no, Orx certainly don't fall into the screw up category, otherwise even the fixes would have been met with a similar level of criticism.

Not sure how you can say that most of the people like the new stuff. How do you arrive at that? Seriously. Most people don't follow the development of these figures as closely as we on Dakka do. The majority probably haven't even seen the "fixed" figures. It sure seems hard enough to find good pictures of the figures, and Mantic seem in no hurry to put any out.

Also, a great deal of the "fixes" for the Marauders seem to not even have been implemented. The big one that sticks out to me is the Ripper suit with ranged weapons. I could be wrong, but I seem to recall them saying they were going to reposition his arms to be, you know, aiming his weapons. That definitely didn't happen. Then there is the "running" figure who looks like he is falling on his face, the shotgun Marauder hugging his gun, etc. All these things were complained about (i.e.: problems) and yet somehow still exist. The majority of the Marauders line falls into the Screw Up category for me, and I'm certain I'm not alone.

All of this; every last bitch and nit-pick (from me and anyone else here), ultimately comes down to personal taste. I'm not willing to accept that poorly executed crap quietly. That's all.

~Eric



Automatically Appended Next Post:

pretre wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
I still think the dancing sniper is stupid. Dumb. Asinine.

Does that help?

Have we even seen it since the first views that everyone was complaining about?

timetowaste85 wrote:^I haven't seen a new iteration of it yet. So...perhaps not. I wasn't too fond of the sketch, but I just thought it was goofy. The model itself may be a fantastic sculpt, just a weird pose. Still, there two snipers: you hate one, the other works. I'll likely offer my dancing sniper, as the pose doesn't do anything for me.

Nope, it's still bad.

I'm not a fan of the dancer, but pretre made a good point of his "I got one" dance. It works, especially for a goblin. Sculpt looks good, pose is blah. And fine, if we want to be specific, most of the voices on Dakka (not the whole world) have mentioned improvement on the Orx. There was a LOT of hate on here for them, they were the least preferred team. Now many people are discussing adding more of them to their pledge. An improvement must exist at that point, right? Even if it's just seeing a sculpt instead of a drawing. I forgot that I have to be extremely specific and avoid sarcasm when talking with you, and I'll try to remember that in the future. Apologies.

 pretre wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:
Nope, it's still bad.

At least that's down to taste. I think he's cool. Looks like he's saying 'I got one!'

Which exactly why it is asinine. A sniper that did that is a dead sniper. Sneaky goblins are smart enough o know this, and being sneaking critters should not be announcing their presence after each shot with a frickin victory dance.

Are there sniper rifles with big ammo clips? Looks like an automatic assault rifle to me, but I am no expert. The other Goblin uses it as an assault rifle, not bothering with the gunsight at all.

Taking the high road on the clip/magazine argument. Sniper rifles seem to have 5-20 round detatchable box magazines most often (says a very quick google search), so those are probably within reason. Besides its scifi and the future. And failing that, maybe they're more of a DMR type of weapon than a high caliber affair.

I prefer kneeling super srs goblin over the goofy one, but I like the goofy one too. I think I'm getting 5 of them (2xstrike+bundle) and I'll be able to live with a couple of goofy snipers.

So far for me, KoW = great game, Dwarf Kings Hold = great game, Project Pandora = great game, Warpath = still needs work, Dreadball = my favorite game atm, Deadzone (only played 4 games of Beta rules) = shaping up really well. So for me I'm well happy with Mantic atm!

@ Overtyrant Hey a little off topic but about DKH, would you recommend it? The warstore seems to carry it (or expansion for it, can't tell) in their Mantic overstock section and I was eyeing it. Project pandora too, for that matter.

Back OT...No love for the little downtrodden goblin carrying the big mortar shell thing?

Both games are great and you can normally pick them up cheap! Though the one complaint I have about those two games are the boards and counters are to thin for my tastes.

Dancing goblin sniper could be used as a casualty with very little work.

The Marauders have changed enough for the better that I actually regret not buying any of them. I had written them off after the horrible first showing, but they are definitely a ton better.

Those gobbos look very fitting to me. Cunning, maliciously intent on shooting someone in the back, and mischievous victory dance after cunningly, maliciously shooting someone in the back.

 Kroothawk wrote:
5.) Terrain is super bland, even the cheap Russian sprues have more character.

The plain grey paintjob on the recently shown ones maybe. The light grey with orange striping shown during the KS was much more lively I thought. The main selling point however is the modularity and multiple kits which I think will make it awesome on the tabletop. It won't look as good individually as the large, premade buildings from... Spartan? But the modularity will mean you can have a different battlefield every game, whereas the Spartan stuff will get old very quick. Mantic needs to release some pics of epic epic terrain made with 10+ kits imo, to show off what it can do.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I was gonna say...

For all of the heated debate those pictures have created, I for one am feeling very destitute.

See, I cancelled a pledge for Deadzone thinking that Toughest Girls of the Galaxy was going to be sooooo hot. I really wanted to Rebs minis. And I can't even drown my sorrows in cheesecake in the meantime.

Ouch. /hug. I did the reverse... dropped down to $150 on Raging Heroes and went in big time on deadzone. Here's hoping both turn out well though!

 AegisGrimm wrote:
The Marauders have changed enough for the better that I actually regret not buying any of them. I had written them off after the horrible first showing, but they are definitely a ton better.

I can probably cut you a sweet deal on a dancing sniper if you regret not getting one of those.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

I'm not a fan of the dancer, but pretre made a good point of his "I got one" dance. It works, especially for a goblin. Sculpt looks good, pose is blah. And fine, if we want to be specific, most of the voices on Dakka (not the whole world) have mentioned improvement on the Orx. There was a LOT of hate on here for them, they were the least preferred team. Now many people are discussing adding more of them to their pledge. An improvement must exist at that point, right? Even if it's just seeing a sculpt instead of a drawing. I forgot that I have to be extremely specific and avoid sarcasm when talking with you, and I'll try to remember that in the future. Apologies.

Again, there's no way you can really say "most of the voices on Dakka". Some, for sure. And that's fine. If you like them, good. I'm glad someone won't be saddled with fixing them or offloading them. Trying to add legitimacy to your argument by ascribing it to the majority just doesn't work. You have an opinion. Great, stick to it. And since we are communicating strictly through the internet, you should aspire to specificity always, not just with me. Also, you and I have never or barely ever "talked" so that last remark was unnecessary. I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your argument. Please keep that in mind. I have absolutely no ill will whatsoever towards you.

I would totally agree with Pretre and be 100% on board with the sniper goblin IF, and only if, I were buying it from GW. Comedy ork(c)s and Goblins are their thing. It wasn't Mantic's thing. At least not for the Orx. I don't think so for the Goblins, but please feel free to point out a source if I'm wrong. I'd like to know. The departure from the original "feel" and proportions of the Marauders are my biggest complaint about them. Then tack on the mediocre to bad sculpting and the GW-ifying of them and I'm turned off completely.

People are talking about adding them to their pledges, true. No argument there. More than a few posters (here and elsewhere) are doing so to use as Stormboyz. Which is great. But I don't want Stormboiyz. I want serious, deadly, good looking Orx. I'm not alone, but I doubt that we are anywhere near a majority. There is still a lot of dislike felt for the Marauders. A few folks have even spoken up since you and I started trading messages here.

~Eric

Imho, the marauders have improved massively since the inital greens. I initally was a bit miffed that I couldn't swap them out for another second faction. Looking back now im glad I didn't have that chance.

The marauder's new look in dz does seem to fit more with the warpath universes background of them having been used as shock troops by the corporations, being equipped with human equipment and uniforms. The stormboy comparison is pretty much spot on for how they'd look.

I still think theres a couple of problems tho, in particular matching them to the current orx models and vehicles. Also some of the poses could have been better thought out, namely the ripper suits.

 Taarnak wrote:
I want serious, deadly, good looking Orx. I'm not alone, but I doubt that we are anywhere near a majority. There is still a lot of dislike felt for the Marauders. A few folks have even spoken up since you and I started trading messages here.

~Eric

I fall on the "like" end of the Orx debate. The current designs will fit quite nicely with my 40K orks, and since I don't see myself ever playing 40K again, that means I will have a massive Warpath/Deadzone Marauders force with very little inital effort. I'm quite pleased I went all in on this one.

 JoshInJapan wrote:
I fall on the "like" end of the Orx debate. The current designs will fit quite nicely with my 40K orks, and since I don't see myself ever playing 40K again, that means I will have a massive Warpath/Deadzone Marauders force with very little inital effort. I'm quite pleased I went all in on this one.

Pretty much same here in that respect. Or at least, I won't be playing *Orks* in 40k, but will be very happy to have a solid foundation for a warpath army thanks to 3x strike teams + bogof. And Deadzone... I really hope it scales larger well.

Speaking of which - an aspect of deadzone is your activations per turn based on your commander. Will this need to be scaled up for larger games, such as 4x6 boards with 2-3x the units on each side? Or would it still be best to have more rapid turns with smaller numbers of units doing stuff while the majority don't. Or did I miss something in the released rules that already addressed this? If you have 4+ players each with the smaller sized teams it would still work of course, but if you have 1v1 with two very large teams, I was wondering how it would work best.

Well the command value does a few things. First number is how many cards you draw a turn, second is how many you keep (reshuffle the rest). Add them together and that denotes how many units you can move per initiative step (or however they call it). In the standard size 70 point games, most players are going to need two steps to move everyone. So it goes player A player B, A, B. For double the number of models you'll just have more initiative steps per turn. A,B,A,B,A,B,A,B. It seems like it should work just fine, and is a concrete reason to bring a high command character. And to kill them! If you suddenly go down from moving 5-6 guys at a time down to 2-3, you lose a lot of your ability to concentrate your forces and such.

That is, of course, if Mr. Thornton does it that way. The multi-mat/multiplayer stuff may be in the supplement book and not the main rulebook, I don't remember. So far, I don't think he's said a lot about it, what with just the Beta of the main game being out.

I can probably cut you a sweet deal on a dancing sniper if you regret not getting one of those.

While I get the joke, I now totally agree with the genius of having the entirety of the survey available again for the 2nd survey in the spring. As I see more and more models get better previews, and when I see how the hard plastic stuff shapes up, I can add more of those things to what I'll put on the 2nd pledge.

I was kind of planning on using the second survey to cherry-pick models/bundles to fill out units for Warpath. But with all of the talk of Warpath going back towards the 1.0 rules with bigger battles (apocalypse style maybe), I'm somewhat hesitant to go nuts doing so. I'm still hoping they keep a 40k-esque WP2.0 style variant, even if they want to flagship extra big apocalypse style.

Anyway that's a topic for a couple of other threads. For now, the second survey for me is mostly going to be devoted to peace keepers, I think. And, after I've had a chance to play with the battlezone tiles and if they still offer it during the second survey... a chance to get some sweet Antenocitis stuff shipped to me in a box I've already paid to have shipped

Forgefathers for a 2nd edition 40K army, for me! I think that if I buy the faction set and the expansion, with two more Valkyrs, the only figure I won't be using for a 40k list is the demo-bot. So pretty good deal.

I may have to cherrypick some Marauder stuff, though.

 Taarnak wrote:
People are talking about adding them to their pledges, true. No argument there. More than a few posters (here and elsewhere) are doing so to use as Stormboyz. Which is great. But I don't want Stormboiyz. I want serious, deadly, good looking Orx. I'm not alone, but I doubt that we are anywhere near a majority. There is still a lot of dislike felt for the Marauders. A few folks have even spoken up since you and I started trading messages here.

~Eric

This.

I think a lot of the people liking them like them because they're closer to the 40k models.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't help Warpath in the same way that 40k players who never played Warpath complaining about mass-battles rules didn't help Warpath (just admit it's the minis you're not interested in, Warpath 2.0 with 40k-style rules has been out for long while now and the 40k players who shouted from the rooftops saying that was what they wanted still aren't playing it).

I have zero interest in 40k. And zero-interest in Warpath as a 40k-clone. You can get away with that for fantasy since the archetypes are so generic, but with sci-fi, if you make a race of Orx that look exactly like 40k orks, you start to wonder why you're not just playing 40k instead.

What I do want is Warpath which still doesn't feel like it has been released yet, after 2 years on the shelves.

At least with KoW we got Elves, Undead and Dwarves within the first year or so (with abyssal dwarves and orcs following shortly after), and all were viable options to create full and affordable armies out of (with even the frills like artillery done in hard plastic).
It really allowed the game to take off and got people playing,made them interested in tournaments.

Warpath has one faction that is just about half-done - the forgefathers. Most of the infantry, and a mech/artillery piece. No vehicles, but it's playable enough.
Corporation are just about close enough to forming a full army if you count the enforcers as well. Again, no vehicles.

However, even with those two factions, the pricing is basically double what it is on KoW so it's nowhere near as appealing to collect.
The bulk of the forgefathers, and a lot of the enforcers cost either £1.50 or £3 per model which is basically GW prices for hybrid metal minis that don't come close to offering what GW does.

Marauders and Veer-myn might as well not exist as far as being serious playable warpath factions, the Orx have one infantry unit released which is about to be consigned to the "released back when the minis were truescale" dustbin. I have never heard of a warpath game that did not just use 40k orks for the minis. Not one. Not because they were bad minis, but you can't play a game when 85% of the army list is missing and you only have one infantry unit, one hero and a buggy to work with for minis.
Veer-myn are 2 restic kits with metal add-on bitz, and will probably stay that way for a *long* time since they got nothing from Deadzone.

Deadzone will help, but it will also release 3 new factions which will all need their own support before the first four are anywhere close to being filled out properly. And again, with the exception of a few hard plastics (which China may or may not take a sloppy great dump on at tooling time), the releases will mostly be expensive restic and no proper vehicles.

What we will see long before any movement on Warpath is Mars Attacks fleshed out into a complete sci-fi game with its own big monsters and vehicles, and 2-3 complete, compelling, playable factions all with excellent sculpts. /:

Im begining to like the little fella