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Those two metals (and the kid on the dinosaur) were the backer created minis,

you were offered the chance to buy them in the wave 3 pledge manager


as for restic/metal

I haven't opened any bags or built anything yet, I'll have a look to see what I've got that can give a decent comparison tomorrow

This replacing of some restic with metal without asking is unacceptable imo. Mantic should have just delayed it rather than mixed materials, mixed materials would gak me if it affected me. I'm with Alpharius, this has crashed my hopes about a good Deadzone release. They'll inevitably do something wrong... rule cards made out of carrot maybe?

 Yonan wrote:
This replacing of some restic with metal without asking is unacceptable imo. Mantic should have just delayed it rather than mixed materials, mixed materials would gak me if it affected me. I'm with Alpharius, this has crashed my hopes about a good Deadzone release. They'll inevitably do something wrong... rule cards made out of carrot maybe?

Well there are plenty of people who are happy that some of the models are metal so they should have asked so that those of us that don't want it (at least not for non-MVPs) got the restic orders and those who are happy about it got the metal.

I would generally consider myself pro-Mantic, but their prioritisation of expediency over service is starting to irritate.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Actually, filing works just fine as far as I can tell.

Good quality files are needed, but other than that it works the same as hard plastic, just takes a little longer.
.

Which brand and type of files? Please, please give me a link because I've tried using all kinds of metal files, plastic sanding sticks, emery boards, those soft emery boards for babies, balled-up tin foil, my shoe and the sidewalk. Nothing is producing a nice, clean finish for me. Please tell me what files you are using.

It's a matter of technique as well; more speed, less pressure helps IME.

 Baragash wrote:

I would generally consider myself pro-Mantic, but their prioritisation of expediency over service is starting to irritate.

Exactly!

That might just about sum up what's 'wrong' with Mantic right now, especialyl if they think that's what is 'best'.

I have to think they know they can't flub up Deadzone though, right?

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I got metal for

1) The 3 backer MVP's.

2) The alternate poses sets for the Zees, Teratons, Asterians and Nameless

3) The Keepers for the Teratons, Asterians and Nameless

4) The main nameless team

Interesting... I guess I've got a shot at an all-metal Nameless team, then? I hope I get that, rather than half restic / half metal...

DaveC- I too think the reason those metal MVPs look out of scale might be because the restic shrinks while the metal doesn't? Does someone who has mixed material teams (like Orlando with the Zees, Teratons, and Asterians) notice any difference between the metal and restic versions? If not, that theory doesn't really work...

Unfortunately, this was an issue with Sedition Wars, too- not all models shrink the same way, and more slender models seem to shrink more in the process (or at least, that's what they experienced, and claimed was the reason for the very small models being really tiny).

 Alpharius wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

I would generally consider myself pro-Mantic, but their prioritisation of expediency over service is starting to irritate.

Exactly!

That might just about sum up what's 'wrong' with Mantic right now, especialyl if they think that's what is 'best'.

I have to think they know they can't flub up Deadzone though, right?

Really the only thing about the metal thing that bothers me was they didn't offer the choice to the affected backers. If you'd be fine with metal models, great. Heck, they could have offered to swap out the whole teams for metal ones if the backer wanted and that would have freed up some restic ones. If you'd prefer to wait for the restic to come in, then you can wait for that to come in. Maybe if they said "well, the restic won't be in for another 3 months" people would have opted for the metal regardless of preference but it should have been the backer's choice. Outside of that failure in communication, there's really not much to complain about. Granted, in this instance it's like saying "other than the fly floating in your soup, it was fine" but it doesn't read as a "shady" or malicious action on their part. It's just kind of an inconsiderate one for lack of a better word, and that is out of the norm for Mantic.

On the other side of the coin, hitting deadlines isn't a bad thing, and that counts for a lot in the era of the "80% done but not yet" KS. However, just like some of those other KS, communication is what is going to be the key to success, and Mantic does seem to struggle at times on the important aspects of that. I'm willing to dismiss KoW's issues as a company who's reach extended their grasp and they ended up far too in the red to make it work. DreadBall was going fine until they under-ordered at the end. I suppose Alph is right in that their reputation is riding heavily on the DeadZone project, and if they want WarPath to do well, they're not going to be able to have the sorts of errors they've allowed to creep into their other projects.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

I would generally consider myself pro-Mantic, but their prioritisation of expediency over service is starting to irritate.

Exactly!

That might just about sum up what's 'wrong' with Mantic right now, especialyl if they think that's what is 'best'.

I have to think they know they can't flub up Deadzone though, right?

Well TBH I think the did a decent job with Dreadball (says the guy who is going to be asking for 2 replacment starter teams due to casting and 4 replacement booster teams due to metal...lol) so I think the risk of flub up is quite low. The risk for me is they'll zig instead of zagging on something when the extra yard they save by zigging just isn't worth it compared to the inconvenience/disappointment it causes.

I put several hundred dollars into DZ and I would prefer quality over delays.

Please, Mantic, don't try to rush this out.

 Souleater wrote:
I put several hundred dollars into DZ and I would prefer quality over delays.

Please, Mantic, don't try to rush this out.

EXALTED!

I hope Mantic realizes this is the best course forward now...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:
Actually, filing works just fine as far as I can tell.

Good quality files are needed, but other than that it works the same as hard plastic, just takes a little longer.
.

Which brand and type of files? Please, please give me a link because I've tried using all kinds of metal files, plastic sanding sticks, emery boards, those soft emery boards for babies, balled-up tin foil, my shoe and the sidewalk. Nothing is producing a nice, clean finish for me. Please tell me what files you are using.

generic file set with blue rubberized handles that came in a red vinyl slip case that i bought from some hobby shop about 15 years ago for like ten dollars. no problems at all filing pvc plastic. so i dunno!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree that they've been more concerned with speed than quality but I cannot express to you how great they've been with customer service. I'm sure if you have a problem with any of your figs they'll replace them; they did that for me.
Actually another cool thing is that they combined a Mantic Points order with some replacements from the KoW Ks for me so I wouldn't have to pay shipping on the Mantic Points order!

But I feel pretty good about Deadzone... everything they've shown so far looks good to great and they've shown most of the stuff from wave 1, right?

Right I've taken some shots of metal vs restic (actually a bit tricky as you want comparable sculpts), but here goes

Zees


as you can see the restic is actually a 'cleaner' cast than the metal (the zees suffer a lot worse in metal than anything else) but is smaller, although this is exaggerated by a the 'on tiptoe' pose of the metal


cropped at the kilt shows the true scale of the shrinkage, it's there but probably not a major issue and these being the smallest figures will be the worst

Teratons

very little visual difference on the bigger teratons (where the metal cast is much better quality too)


I think it's important to clarify that there is no 'Mixed Material' going on (eg metal arms, restic body), if a figure is metal it's all metal, if a figure is restic it's all restic

there are however teams that will have a mix of metal and restic figures

assembly on the metals will vary some is going to be easy as decent peg & sockets are present, some not so much

Once again there is signs of some minis being twisted off the sprues (but not all this time, some are cut properly, so an improvement but not far enough yet)

Dozer the teraton is clearly comparable to the other big guys which is cool,

sadly the nameless big guy is smaller than the rest which is a shame (he is bigger than the other nameless, but not a patch on the other big guys)

It's a real shame the season 2 upgrades were to available to ship for everybody (the big question is did they go missing in transit, or did the factory run out of time and short ship)

Ooooooh man. I really hope my Nameless are one material. Which I guess means metal... that difference in size on the Zees, although not huge, would really bother me.

Looks like the observation about PVC shrinkage from Sedition Wars is true- the smaller models are much more susceptible (i.e. the Teratons look mostly unaffected).

But with all the thin features on Nameless models (if my John Doe is any indication) it will mean they will be affected similarly to the Zees... which would be a real bummer if I end up with a mixed team.

Fingers crossed...

Edit: Orlando, I assume your big Nameless model came in restic, although the rest was metal? That wouldn't be as much of an issue since there's nothing to directly compare him to...

Thanks for the specifics Orlando. No mixed-material on the same model is something at least, but mixed-material units... very bad decision imo. Those metal Zees look bad and as you say the Teratons both look like good casts. I have an order for Dreadball season 3 that hasn't shipped from Wayland, I'll have to check with Mantic to see if any of them might be metals, if so I'll cancel and wait until they're out in restic.

Not happy Mantic, think I'll actually email them to suggest that they definitely do not do similar for Deadzone. A delay is much better than what they've done here. I'm not a huge fan of metal, but even less of part metal, part non metal units/squads/teams. At least resin, restic, and plastic are similar enough to not be noticeable when mixed together.

Hmm... not a Dreadball backer but went pretty damn big on Deadzone. Personally, I'd take a well done metal cast over gakky aweful Restic anyday (Sedition Wars left me underwhelmed by the material). But that Zee is just terrible, I'd ask for a replacement - it's as bad, if not worse, as some of my faceless Bones - so maybe I should hope for this new (apparently not garbage Restic formula) instead?
Really starting to feel the Kickstarter burn though (got in on the Relic Knights, Sedition Wars, and Raginf Heroes fiascos, but thankfully avoided the KoW mess) so Deadzone better be well done if Mantic wants to see more (non-Mars Attacks related) money from me.

^ that reminds me, for anyone who thought the KOW KS was a mess and were disappointed in all of their free stretch goals, please note I am still open to buying and paying $money$ for the free fleabag riders, gargoyles, palace guard, immortal guard, mincers, and chariots

As opposed to paying something else

Orlando, do you plan to ask for replacements on the metal Zees, or just take them as-is?

My Nameless big guy was restic (as were all the other big guy models), he's really nice don't get me wrong just a bit smaller than I expected.

I don't think it's anything to do with shrinkage just that scultptor went smaller than the others

I suspect I'll live with the Zees as is rather than bothering with trying to replace them as while the metal looks a bit ugly it will be easier to clean up,

and since they are pretty much the size of a 15mm figure anyway it's not as if I'll be seeing much of them anyway they were the one team that i'd have passed on if they weren't bogof

 Username Invalid wrote:
Personally, I'd take a well done metal cast over gakky aweful Restic anyday

The point is, people paid for one thing and received another. Assuming you like metal, how would you like to pay for metal but receive some metal and some restic that wasn't properly adjusted from it's metal sculpt? That's what Mantics done by the looks.

Check The Zees just above you. Looks more like "Gakky metal" to me.

I don't think I'll mind metal... I just don't want figures from the same teams in both materials, as for the Zees and likely the Nameless, the size difference is noticeable.

If anyone doesn't want there zees, id gladly give you the money to order some restic ones and the money to post them to me.

Alpharius wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

I would generally consider myself pro-Mantic, but their prioritisation of expediency over service is starting to irritate.

Exactly!
That might just about sum up what's 'wrong' with Mantic right now, especialyl if they think that's what is 'best'.
I have to think they know they can't flub up Deadzone though, right?

Alpharius wrote:

 Souleater wrote:
I put several hundred dollars into DZ and I would prefer quality over delays.
Please, Mantic, don't try to rush this out.

EXALTED!
I hope Mantic realizes this is the best course forward now...

What shall I say: They won't listen and they will rush this out.
That's Mantic's Law: It it can be fethed up, it will be fethed up.
Whenever I revisit this thread after a few weeks, they broke another promise and did another major feth up. That's the only constant with this company.

And if they'd missed the deadline you'd be complaining that they missed the deadline AND THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER MANTIC ALWAYS SCREW EVERYTHING UP.

Daedle wrote:
And if they'd missed the deadline you'd be complaining that they missed the deadline AND THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER MANTIC ALWAYS SCREW EVERYTHING UP.

Bollocks. Big difference between getting something late and not getting what you paid for. Check the Dreamforge Games thread for a KS that's way over schedule. We're patiently waiting because we know the minis are awesome.

 Yonan wrote:

Daedle wrote:
And if they'd missed the deadline you'd be complaining that they missed the deadline AND THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER MANTIC ALWAYS SCREW EVERYTHING UP.

Bollocks. Big difference between getting something late and not getting what you paid for. Check the Dreamforge Games thread for a KS that's way over schedule. We're patiently waiting because we hope the minis will be awesome.

Wouldn't that be more accurate?

 CptJake wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

Daedle wrote:
And if they'd missed the deadline you'd be complaining that they missed the deadline AND THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER MANTIC ALWAYS SCREW EVERYTHING UP.

Bollocks. Big difference between getting something late and not getting what you paid for. Check the Dreamforge Games thread for a KS that's way over schedule. We're patiently waiting because we hope the minis will be awesome.

Wouldn't that be more accurate?

Wave 1 was awesome, an exact translation of the renders to plastic. Wave 2 was awesome, an exact translation of the renders to plastic. It's not a stretch to expect the final wave to be awesome. So no, it's not more accurate.

I suspect Daedle's comment was directed specifically at Kroothawk, rather than at people saying they'd rather have delays than shortcuts.....

Clear communication would also help, rather than burying issues halfway through a long update and then causing confusion later on.

draccan wrote:I got a reply from Tim - unfortunately the communication hasn't been that clear. All four Season 3 team's booster packs (new poses), keepers, prones will only ever be in metal... they did not do some plastic and some metal as was previously understood. Basically they did this to save costs.

They did what now?

Mantic Update 126 wrote:We were expecting the shipping to be done by now, but we had a slight delay with some items - following the recent survey it turned out we needed not only a lot of the Gabe, Drake, Chris Nord and James Sylar figures, but more of the Season 3 alternate sculpts, prones and keepers than expected - they've been very popular! They're now being cast in metal but as we cast our metal figures in-house we're able to take them straight from the mould to your Kickstarter shipments.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dreadball-the-futuristic-sports-game/posts/626068

I think we've seen enough if the DF stuff to know that everything they produce will be perfect.

More on-topic, I have to agree with the people complaining about the mix of materials, they should have just delayed a little while until they could do everything in restic. Either that or they ask people what material they would prefer in advance.

some people would complain over missed deadlines due to making sure the quality was excellent (fair enough, they value speed and this seems to be the camp Mantic falls into)

some people would complain over shoddy quality because they did hit the deadline (fair enough, they value quality, and this is where I personally sit)


They're not going to be able to please both groups, sadly