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The bad news: Restic gets bent out of shape. My brother's big plague leader guy almost looked like it was pirouetting due to how close together the legs got bent (compared to the proper spread out pose).
The good news: Very hot tap water is enough to repose the model (reposing the pirouette back to normal), or to repose the model however you'd like.

No amount of complaining will cause the restic to become hard plastic.

 solkan wrote:

No amount of complaining will cause the restic to become hard plastic.

Ha!

Good one there.

And sadly, too true...

I saw some of the Marauders in-Person this weekend.

Are you guys *REALLY* ok with heavy mold lines destroying detail on critical parts of the models? This is a sign of just crappy model/mold design.

I also noticed when pouring through my Friend's models that 100% of the failures from the previous KS are still in full effect. Harsh mold lines, Torn from sprue, Warping, damage to face due to poor mold design.

How many times is it going to be 'fool me 4 times, shame on me?' And with the 'at the end, we randomly stopped filling boxes and shipped them incomplete hoping no one would notice' and 'we are out of stock because we sold your models to retailers', I don't see how anyone can honestly support these KS or this company anymore. Things are actually getting worse, not better in product quality and company fulfillment.

I got everything I ordered (except 4 dice, which they missed for everyone) and none of my models were damaged in the way you're talking about. So yes, I will continue to support them.

In fact, my gaming group is going for another couple hundred on Survey 2.

 pretre wrote:
I got everything I ordered (except 4 dice, which they missed for everyone) and none of my models were damaged in the way you're talking about. So yes, I will continue to support them.

In fact, my gaming group is going for another couple hundred on Survey 2.

same here, everything but dice, no particularly bad mold lines beyond maybe 1 or 2, and these were not in critical spots and only one of the marauder pyros had the arm gap

DZ was my first foray into restic and I find it about as involving to work with as metal, and the casting no worse than PP's. I'll take it over anything else except hard plastic any day.

All the twisting/ tearing off of the sprue I've experienced so far has had the everything still attached to the sprue (which was yanked off of whatever larger sprue they had), so I don't really care if they want to tear those apart.

Some figures seem to suffer moldline- itis worse than others. My dreadball MVP was completely free of any imperfections. A few of my Marauders and Plague were as well. Then again, I had similar figures (some of the same sculpts for the plague in fact) that had all kinds of work needed on them.

The trollblood champions I'm working on right now from Privateer are just as bad with the bad mold lines.

I certainly hope we'll see some more renders prior to the survey rolling out.

We still haven't seen the female enforcer and her bike yet, even as concept art.

nkelsch wrote:
I saw some of the Marauders in-Person this weekend.

Are you guys *REALLY* ok with heavy mold lines destroying detail on critical parts of the models? This is a sign of just crappy model/mold design.

I also noticed when pouring through my Friend's models that 100% of the failures from the previous KS are still in full effect. Harsh mold lines, Torn from sprue, Warping, damage to face due to poor mold design.

Well, I've finished assembling all 4 ripper suits now, and there were no mold lines on critical parts of the models, the mold lines that were there wren't harsh, being torn from the sprue did no damage, there is no warping and the faces are perfect.

Only problem was one set of arms needed extra trimming around the peg to fit into the hole at the angle I wanted, and the shoulder mounted autocannon didn't really seem to have anywhere it was supposed to mount, so I trimmed down one end a little and got it to sit exactly how it looked in the photos.

Going to try some Commandos tomorrow - I pulled out a Pyro and noticed the wrist gap, so there is that.

So far these have been an order of magnitude better than the horrible, seemingly mismatched in the mold stuff I got in my Cyriss battle box. My Cipher body was like two separately cast halves stuck together after the fact like an old fashioned easter egg, only off by 1mm.

I just finished assembling my Plague and my impressions are quite high. I have not opened up any other faction bags yet, so I can't say yet how I feel about those from a quality perspective.

The Restic is much easier to work with than the earlier DB restic. takes a light scraping without feathering like the old blend. Still requires a very sharp knife, but I'm fine with that. Plague had some mold lines, but that's to be expected and nothing that couldn't be cleaned up fairly easily. No hot water treatment needed for any of the models. Had to trim a couple pegs on the 3A's to get a good fit, but much less than Dreadball.

That Stage 1A is a big hunk-o-plastic. I received 3 bags of the Plague Extra 1 (the one with the heavy machine gun) and I will say that all 3 HMG and all 3 of the trooper with the carbine held in both hands fit perfectly.

I see a lot of growth from Mantic on both the quality of sculpts and final product...at least in regards to the plague. Fulfillment issues aside.

 solkan wrote:


No amount of complaining will cause the restic to become hard plastic.

This is my first time working with restic. I am looking back at it and sadly its still not hard plastic.

 carlos13th wrote:
This is my first time working with restic. I am looking back at it and sadly its still not hard plastic.

If you want productive advice on how to work with restic, you should be able to find it in the modeling and painting areas of the forum. Not the news and rumors section of the forum.

I wasn't asking for advice. I have searched elsewhere for that. I was stating my opinion and experence on a product I have received.

Nkelsch,I also felt burned by mantic and hate restic. That's why I only pledged $11. $1 which I bumped up 1,000% to show how strongly I support their late announcement for plastic enforcers.

I'm honestly baffled why a head cast as a separate piece would have the mold line through the face.
Can't imagine when the mold was created someone asked where should the two halves meet and someone replied "through its face!".

You might be surprised how that works, other alternatives might make the mold line even worse.

I finally got my little Rebs starter and booster (was part of another guy's kickstarter order).

The weird thing I found was... I got some of this before xmas with the 2013 mystery box, which contained a couple of rebs. They were great, with very little cleanup or mould lines to remove. The ones in my starter/booster had massive mould lines that projected from the model almost 4mm. Same models, way different 'quality'

I guess the mould was getting tired by that point.

 Micky wrote:
I finally got my little Rebs starter and booster (was part of another guy's kickstarter order).

The weird thing I found was... I got some of this before xmas with the 2013 mystery box, which contained a couple of rebs. They were great, with very little cleanup or mould lines to remove. The ones in my starter/booster had massive mould lines that projected from the model almost 4mm. Same models, way different 'quality'

I guess the mould was getting tired by that point.

Or the guy running the machine was being rushed.

Triple9 wrote:
I just finished assembling my Plague and my impressions are quite high. I have not opened up any other faction bags yet, so I can't say yet how I feel about those from a quality perspective.

The Restic is much easier to work with than the earlier DB restic. takes a light scraping without feathering like the old blend. Still requires a very sharp knife, but I'm fine with that. Plague had some mold lines, but that's to be expected and nothing that couldn't be cleaned up fairly easily. No hot water treatment needed for any of the models. Had to trim a couple pegs on the 3A's to get a good fit, but much less than Dreadball.

That Stage 1A is a big hunk-o-plastic. I received 3 bags of the Plague Extra 1 (the one with the heavy machine gun) and I will say that all 3 HMG and all 3 of the trooper with the carbine held in both hands fit perfectly.

I see a lot of growth from Mantic on both the quality of sculpts and final product...at least in regards to the plague. Fulfillment issues aside.

Agree totally. Started putting together my Plague last night and found everything fitted really well. The restic was much harder than I'm used to but a switch out to a newer blade on my xacto and it was a bit better. Got a lot of scratches but once I airbrushed some primer on it looked fantastic!

I've lopped of all of the stands on the 3A's as I'm using SWM resin bases.

I've built a few figures from each faction so far. I haven't had a single figure with a mold line running down the face yet. I think the worst I've dealt with were the mercs, and they were still passable. Only my Dreadball MVP was truly bad and I really hope they replace it.

The biggest problem is just the variability. One model might need almost no cleaning, another might need to be boiled and required 20 mins of cutting/scraping.

And it's never consistent within a single model either - I actually have 2 Strike Teams ("when you consider the extra free faction, hardback book, scenery and mat, I'd be crazy NOT to...") and there can be a huge variation. The Enforcer Captain's cloak is flawless in one bag, while it had a huge raised ridge on another.

This creates the unfortunate problem of being 'lucky' or 'unlucky' with your castings, which really isn't acceptable with a premium modelling product. Neither is having to boil everything - not a single one of my large models has stood straight without being heated, and not a single sniper has had a straight gun barrel.

It has taken a truly titanic amount of time simply to assemble one each of the Faction starters + boosters: the number of pieces, the number of really tiny pieces, the amount of cleaning required, the boiling and repositioning. I'm actually quite happy with all of the models, but this is bonkers for a small-level skirmish/boardgame.

^ Yeah, getting it all together has taken a hellishly long amount of time.

Often a mini is a case of:

- File mould lines off of 4 seperate parts, which may or may not be large or small, may or may not be running over details making it take much more time.

- Test fit pieces, hot water bend as appropriate.

- Superglue, fill gaps with liquid green stuff.

As far as cleanup and assembly time goes, I'm averaging 20 minutes per mini, sometimes 30-45 minutes on the larger or more difficult ones.

I like painting but dislike assembly and hate mould line removal with a passion.

I think after I (finally) put my Basilean army together, and Deadzone, I'm pretty much done with mass amounts of restic from Mantic.

I know people have a mixed opinion of Mantic's earliest hard plastics, but on the other hand I could clean and assemble a whole unit of 20 dwarfs in a few hours, easy.

I'm starting to become acutely aware of the "time cost" of certain miniatures, which in many ways is just as important as the price cost.

I found myself halfway through cleaning up my restic stop-gap Enforcers and stopped after thinking "screw it, why not just wait for the hard plastics?".

Yeah, I'm okay with restic in general, but I'm not keen on having loads of models in it at once due to all the prep work. I was never going to use my Marauders, but I was 50/50 on Plague until I decided I didn't want to have to build another starter.

I think there's something in the 'rushed production' theory, as all my older KoW restic is perfect, and it's only been KS models that are prone to hugely variable quality.

Anyway, I'm just glad that the Enforcers and Asterians will be on sprues, as these are the two I'm planning to have 'armies' of.

A good point - those Orc boar riders I got from the first wave of the KoW Kickstarter were near-perfect!

I suppose the other aspect of this is that Kickstarter is completely contrary to how people normally buy these things. If you picked up a faction starter to give the game a go, you're looking at 11-13 models before you're ready to go. If you want to later on give yourself a few more options, then you get a booster - another 5-6 models. And that's it. My Necromunda gang never had more than 11 models, even.

That being said, Kickstarter is rapidly becoming the way things are done, and I think SS is definitely right in the 'time cost' aspect becoming increasingly apparent. I'm almost, almost dreading the arrival of some packages because of the time investment they represent! And it means that miniatures that don't require assembly (e.g. Shadows of Brimstone, Mars Attacks) do become increasingly more attractive.

 GrimDork wrote:
Skaven live in tunnels, Veer-myn are giant mutated rat monsters, seems fair enough that they're bigger. But what ever will you do with a distinct lack of scifi goggles and whatever else those things have... gas masks?

Enjoy the non-awful heads on my Space Skaven.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:



hm, well, anything's got to be better than the stock heads, right? Oddly, Vermyn seem to be bigger than humans in Mantic's scale, while Skaven are generally smaller than humans in GW's - so hopefully it can work...

How many spare beakie marine heads do you have?

uh..... dunno. Not many since I plan to make a RT-inspired Crimson Fist force at some stage, and also a small detachment of Raven Guard for my SM Crusade Army. I'd rather use Skaven heads on the Veermyn anyway rather than modified beakie helmets. I'll probably Hoard O bits a set of the Stormvermin and Plague Monk heads, then see how they look when I get around to the Veermies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bolognesus wrote:

That second survey will be with us in two weeks or so, though - I don't really expect them to have hard plastic in hand by then given how little updates we've had on the process so far.

Hm, so will there be a third survey as with KoW when everything is actually ready, or is the second going to be the final one and another care of "Buy blind! It'll be great! We promise! You can trust us!* Disclaimer: Product may not actually be great. Promise not valid for product purchased. You may not actually be able to trust us."?

 Azazelx wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
Skaven live in tunnels, Veer-myn are giant mutated rat monsters, seems fair enough that they're bigger. But what ever will you do with a distinct lack of scifi goggles and whatever else those things have... gas masks?

Enjoy the non-awful heads on my Space Skaven.

Off topic slightly - I love the Veer-Myn models (just bought a hundred of them actually) but I would like some variety - what specific GW heads are you using?

Round two of assembly. Put together the Enforcers and Rebel Faction.

Still very impressed with the new restic blend. It's very hard, but cleans up much easier than the softer blend. It doesn't remold as well with hot water, but I haven't had to heat very much yet.

Enforcers new sculpts all assembled well. I surprised myself by assembling the Captain with open helmet. No hot water and only one weird mold line (horizontal line across the captains cape). The Warpath Enforcers were a real pain. I can say without a doubt that if I had started with the Enforcers instead of the Plague, I would have a different perception of the assembly overall. Assembling the 5 Warpath Enforcers left me in a very foul mood, but afterwards also made me realize how far Mantic has come with assembly. They do look good, I'll give them that, but I never want to assemble one again. Restic is just not a good material for unkeyed assembly.

The Rebels had a couple issues. One of the Teratons wrist blades(?) was snapped off, but glued back cleanly. Otherwise it went together very well and like the Plague 1A, it's a big hunk o' plastic. The Grogan Desolator gun was bent...badly. The one piece I've worked on through the 3 starters so far where I had a WTF moment wondering how it passed QC. This is where I discovered the new restic doesn't heat bend as well. I managed to get the piece assembled in a "good enough", but it's still going to bother me. Also, was missing the second Reb Extra 1 bag.

Still happy, only one miscast across 3 factions so far. Will add all the faction boosters and vehicles when they re-open the pledge manager.

On the topic of survey, the 6 Booster Bundles for the price of 3 is just too tempting to pass up.

I'm still torn on the vehicles though. Waiting for pics before I decide.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, moving this from the Gameplay thread:


Re: Hardback Compendium.
Is it 300 during the initial KS or 300 during both surveys combined?

Here's what I found which doesn't clear it up entirely:

If you have made a total pledge of $300 or more, including any add-ons and shipping, you'll become a Deadzone Veteran and will get a FREE printed copy of the Ultimate Gamer’s Guide included with your package. This will be a limited edition Veteran Edition of the book, signed with a personal message of thanks from Ronnie. It will also have an exclusive cover with alternate art, available only to Veteran backers.

So if I bump up over 300 total between initial and second survey, do I become a Deadzone Veteran?

 judgedoug wrote:


Off topic slightly - I love the Veer-Myn models (just bought a hundred of them actually) but I would like some variety - what specific GW heads are you using?

Due to the single-part skaven, your options are:

Stormvermin:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WARHAMMER-BIN-BITS-SKAVEN-STORMVERMIN-24x-HEADS-/330914277826?pt=Games_US&hash=item4d0c0729c2

Nightrunners: (probably best)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WARHAMMER-BIN-BITS-SKAVEN-NIGHT-RUNNERS-28x-HEADS-/350780587230?pt=Games_US&hash=item51ac26fcde

expensive gas mask heads:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WARHAMMER-BIN-BITS-SKAVEN-WARP-LIGHTNING-CANNON-3x-GAS-MASK-HEAD-/360836494993?pt=Games_US&hash=item540387f691

If I allow myself to spend anything (gotta see this stuff in person first), I'll be looking at the hard plastic element mostly. If it's ready. I'll also kind of want the stuntbot, iron ancestor (just because I have an accidentally growing FF army) and *possibly* the striders. I have two DB big mechs from crazy boxes, so it'll be down to how much cooler the striders come out.

I wonder if I shouldn't just convert my skaven into veer-myn directly. Might need a second fantasy games army sometime though...

 scarletsquig wrote:
^ Yeah, getting it all together has taken a hellishly long amount of time.

Often a mini is a case of:

- File mould lines off of 4 seperate parts, which may or may not be large or small, may or may not be running over details making it take much more time.

- Test fit pieces, hot water bend as appropriate.

- Superglue, fill gaps with liquid green stuff.

As far as cleanup and assembly time goes, I'm averaging 20 minutes per mini, sometimes 30-45 minutes on the larger or more difficult ones.

I like painting but dislike assembly and hate mould line removal with a passion.

I think after I (finally) put my Basilean army together, and Deadzone, I'm pretty much done with mass amounts of restic from Mantic.

I know people have a mixed opinion of Mantic's earliest hard plastics, but on the other hand I could clean and assemble a whole unit of 20 dwarfs in a few hours, easy.

I'm starting to become acutely aware of the "time cost" of certain miniatures, which in many ways is just as important as the price cost.

I found myself halfway through cleaning up my restic stop-gap Enforcers and stopped after thinking "screw it, why not just wait for the hard plastics?".

I feel much the same about mantics restic. Will finish off what I have in the box. Buy the Asterians which I have already pledged for (And are apparently mostly hard plastic) but probably only put more money into mantic in the future for hard plastic.

TBH I think considering all the models only go together one way it would have been better to make the one piece models.