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That seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy, Judgedoug.

So are we certain that the mauls/claws are gone from the sprue? That seems to be the consensus in the KS comments but I cannot see any confirmation that they are gone/included (please be aware I am myopic).

Assuming the sprue is the same size as the Zombie one I'm not sure there's a whole lot of free space for extra arms with 5 bodies, heads, 12+ arms and that shield on it already I can't see 25 odd arms fitting on such a small sprue - doesn't mean they can't tool a smaller arm sprue but that adds more cost.

They'll be hard pressed to fit all this in 1 sprue - remove the mauls and claws and there's still a lot of parts.

Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
So are we certain that the mauls/claws are gone from the sprue? That seems to be the consensus in the KS comments but I cannot see any confirmation that they are gone/included (please be aware I am myopic).

In the latest Deadzone update, Mantic themselves said they're gone.

 agnosto wrote:
I don't know anyone who pays $50 for terminators. That said, discounted Mantic pricing will be closer to $30 so you're still going to save $10 for 5 more models. As far as stand-ins go, the decision to not include optional weapons was probably a bad one if they intend to compete with GW on like vs. like.

I'm guessing you are talking about buying discounted. Even with that, plenty of folks buy GW straight at RRP. With 20% discount, you're still looking at $32 for 10 from Mantic and $40 for 5 from GW.

 pretre wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
I don't know anyone who pays $50 for terminators. That said, discounted Mantic pricing will be closer to $30 so you're still going to save $10 for 5 more models. As far as stand-ins go, the decision to not include optional weapons was probably a bad one if they intend to compete with GW on like vs. like.

I'm guessing you are talking about buying discounted. Even with that, plenty of folks buy GW straight at RRP. With 20% discount, you're still looking at $32 for 10 from Mantic and $40 for 5 from GW.

Yep. So claws and mauls are out and shields are questionable. We'll just have bodies and guns on the sprue. With GW you get a whole extra sprue just for weapons (at least I think so, it's been a while so I might be wrong here). All those options have to be worth something, right?

Mind you, I'm no GW fan. I'm just pointing out that Mantic limiting themselves to just 1 sprue with minimal options isn't going to automatically have people lining up to buy them as GW stand-ins. Which is fine and also supports the "we're not really trying to rip GW off" angle. Personally, I like extras on the sprue for customization which Mantic has always been a light on in comparison to GW.

On the other hand, the shields are questionable because they're not sure whether they can fit them on the sprues... That suggests there's not exactly going to be loads of empty space on them.

Although, to be honest, I'd be quite happy with the Sgt Howlett style claws on the back of the hands as options.

It's not exactly a concept that GW can lay claim to, is it

 Compel wrote:
On the other hand, the shields are questionable because they're not sure whether they can fit them on the sprues... That suggests there's not exactly going to be loads of empty space on them.

Although, to be honest, I'd be quite happy with the Sgt Howlett style claws on the back of the hands as options.

It's not exactly a concept that GW can lay claim to, is it

Solution: make two sprues or sell a cheap upgrade sprue.

I would be absolutely stunned if that wasn't already in the pipeline for future models.

They could certainly do a close combat sprue during the Warpath KS it would give them a good excuse to sell an existing sprue and give previous backers that already bought them something new.

 Compel wrote:
I would be absolutely stunned if that wasn't already in the pipeline for future models.

I would normally say that as well but Mantic makes some strange business decisions (according to my armchair degree in corporate governance). Maybe less necessary in Deadzone but I certainly hope to see close combat options later. I like the renders.

 agnosto wrote:
Yep. So claws and mauls are out and shields are questionable. We'll just have bodies and guns on the sprue. With GW you get a whole extra sprue just for weapons (at least I think so, it's been a while so I might be wrong here). All those options have to be worth something, right?

Mind you, I'm no GW fan. I'm just pointing out that Mantic limiting themselves to just 1 sprue with minimal options isn't going to automatically have people lining up to buy them as GW stand-ins. Which is fine and also supports the "we're not really trying to rip GW off" angle. Personally, I like extras on the sprue for customization which Mantic has always been a light on in comparison to GW.

Comparison (based on what we have so far):

Mantic (no claws and maces, prob no shields. So 5 fist/gun, 1 optional CCW, two heavies).
1 Sprue / 5 guys: $20.00


GW
4 Sprues / 5 Guys: $50.00 (Multipiece for multiple poses, 4 fist/gun and 2 heavies. 4 optional CCW. 1 Sprue of 'Back Options')


So the real question is... Are the multi-piece posability, -1 gun/fist, 3 Optional CCW and Back Options worth $30?

edit: This is not a comparison for Assault termies since the Peacekeepers are not really good for that role.

 DaveC wrote:
They could certainly do a close combat sprue during the Warpath KS it would give them a good excuse to sell an existing sprue and give previous backers that already bought them something new.

Now THAT is an excellent idea - be sure to pass that along to Mantic, please!

 Alpharius wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
They could certainly do a close combat sprue during the Warpath KS it would give them a good excuse to sell an existing sprue and give previous backers that already bought them something new.

Now THAT is an excellent idea - be sure to pass that along to Mantic, please!

+1. And oddly enough the thought didn't make my Mantic rage-o-meter climb at all. huh. odd.


@Pretre. I'm not trying to say that the Mantic models aren't a good value; they are. I'm saying that lack of options doesn't turn me on. Grey Knight termies have an absolute metric ton of customization bitz and bobs. Some people are willing to pay extra for the extra flash....a flashgit for example.

 agnosto wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
They could certainly do a close combat sprue during the Warpath KS it would give them a good excuse to sell an existing sprue and give previous backers that already bought them something new.

Now THAT is an excellent idea - be sure to pass that along to Mantic, please!

+1. And oddly enough the thought didn't make my Mantic rage-o-meter climb at all. huh. odd.

DONE. Posted on the update.

Just a thought...

"sticking to guns for the most part"

Who says peacekeepers have to be stuck in GW's mould of having just 'heavy' weapons and basic guns?

There's absolutely no reason for the Peacekeepers not to come out with parts for the 'special' weapons, in 40k terms, like the Thermal Rifle or the Fusion Gun.

 Compel wrote:
Just a thought...

"sticking to guns for the most part"

Who says peacekeepers have to be stuck in GW's mould of having just 'heavy' weapons and basic guns?

There's absolutely no reason for the Peacekeepers not to come out with parts for the 'special' weapons, in 40k terms, like the Thermal Rifle or the Fusion Gun.

That would be awesome. They really should do an add-on sprue and throw those on with the claws and such.

Do Peacekeepers ignore Deliberate?

Since the rules for the guns are on the stat cards, I imagine that their guns would just simply not have the deliberate rule. As opposed to writing in a funky rule that says 'ignores deliberate.'

 Compel wrote:
Since the rules for the guns are on the stat cards, I imagine that their guns would just simply not have the deliberate rule. As opposed to writing in a funky rule that says 'ignores deliberate.'

Yeah, totally. That's how they did it with Nastanza. I just still think of it from the design standpoint. Hmm. Do Rippers have Deliberate? Checks cards. No, they don't. Okay, so there's precedent.

I suppose one way to balance it gamewise is, don't give the heavy weapon peacekeepers deliberate on their guns, however do give them the 'Slow' special rule.

"Yes, we're that awesome that we can move and fire everywhere, but all these extra stabilisation gubbins messes with our top speed."

 Compel wrote:
I suppose one way to balance it gamewise is, don't give the heavy weapon peacekeepers deliberate on their guns, however do give them the 'Slow' special rule.

"Yes, we're that awesome that we can move and fire everywhere, but all these extra stabilisation gubbins messes with our top speed."

Or 'Support'. Support is a pretty nasty negative.

 pretre wrote:

 Compel wrote:
I suppose one way to balance it gamewise is, don't give the heavy weapon peacekeepers deliberate on their guns, however do give them the 'Slow' special rule.

"Yes, we're that awesome that we can move and fire everywhere, but all these extra stabilisation gubbins messes with our top speed."

Or 'Support'. Support is a pretty nasty negative.

Isn't that the one that makes them suck in close combat? If so, I don't think that fits the peacekeeper thing.

I would back support way before slow. Thats what's so terrifying about peacekeepers and enforcers in general, they're heavy AND fast. Dude with w big heavy weapon isn't a good at stabbing people though? That makes a reasonable amount of sense.

Of course heavy weapon enforcers can't move and shoot, game balance blah blah, they can do it in warpath

Yeah, I think Support is better than Slow.

 judgedoug wrote:
going by the "lower sales volume due to lower requirements of quantity in games = higher price point to make back tooling costs" then that seems reasonable. of course i'm getting plenty on the survey at two bucks a pop so it should never affect me personally

Yeah, it's not going to affect me personally, and so I am in no way personally offended or butthurt, but it seems closer to the "slightly cheaper than GW" route, than the "big armies - cheap" route for WarPath - and this isn't so good. HIPS should be significantly cheaper than Restic from all the hurf blurfing around the materials they make. The removal of CC weapons will also hurt them, because as much as they want people buying WarPath models for WarPath, we all know who the big dog is, and removing easy cross-compatability isn't a good or clever thing.

Otoh, I'm all for making the kit really good for one thing, rather than 'okay' for two.

I'm personally glad that they're looking into Warpath-focused extra bits (the defender shield and shotgun), rather than having 40k-analogue bits on there just for the sake of it.

I am all for unique stuff from Mantic, in fact ages ago that used to be the argument/ whine oft-repeated on Dakka... "Mantic can't do anything but GW knock-offs".. quite amusing to see the opposite being stated now, that they should carbon copy 40k terminator equipment options rather than sticking with their own stuff.

And half the people vehemently hated the power-maces, especially.

I think they could use some kind of cc weapons. But the energy fist kinds of covers it.

I liked the maces.

I'm a close combat kinda guy.

Big fists are cool and all, but a big meaty mallet to bash stuff with always takes the cake for me.