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In addition to that, Mantic stuff like this gets substantially cheaper in bulk, and they're currently (okay, technically) selling it priced for a low model count skirmish game. I'd say this is mainly the consequence of these plastics being in some weird limbo place between DZ on the one hand and the as of yet not all that, well, existent, WP3.0.

 Compel wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Twenty bucks for 6 dwarfs is a GW-level pricing disincentive. It's not like Mantic's new plastics have tons of extra bits, either. What in the hell were they thinking?

"These are the Forge Father equivalent of Space Marine Terminators, so 40% of the price, plus an extra model compared to them seems reasonable."

Would be my guess. In saying that, considering their price in £, around $18 for the 6 would seem a bit fairer. - And would still include an 'exchange rate' buffer of a couple of dollars.

"Because GW prices like that" is probably the worst tack a miniatures company can take. GW is hemorrhaging customers right now due to their prices and buffoonery, and they have the most iconic brand in the industry. Pricing their not-terminators like Terminators, or even anywhere close, misses the opportunity.

Besides, having seen the sprue pics, there is nothing about them at all to justify such premium pricing.


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 CptJake wrote:
No joke. For a couple of bucks more I can get really nice Wargames Factory zombie survivors, with 30 figures and a TON of extra weapons and accessories. Or 18 sci fi shock troopers.

That is how to price plastics...

This is what I'm thinking, too. Even the pricier Eisenkern come with tons of extra limbs for extra poses, plus extra sets of legs and arms that can be used to spruce up the leftover Shocktroops everyone has in their bits boxes. When the Valkir come out it will be a slaughter.

Mantic: That's the spirit!

Customer: No, your slaughter.

well if 60% cheaper falls within "anywhere close" I sure hope you're not a building inspector or anything of the sort

Debating the price - fine. I'd say $15 would be a more reasonable RRP for these too, but to say they're priced comparable to terminators? That's a little out there, Bob.

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree there. In my view, less than half the price of the Terminator kit does indeed meet the "not even anywhere close" point to me.

 Bolognesus wrote:
In addition to that, Mantic stuff like this gets substantially cheaper in bulk, and they're currently (okay, technically) selling it priced for a low model count skirmish game. I'd say this is mainly the consequence of these plastics being in some weird limbo place between DZ on the one hand and the as of yet not all that, well, existent, WP3.0.

Jacking up the 'impulse buy' box price to make the bulk deal look better is asinine. They have direct competition right now in the sci-fi department that actually gives the customers a deal at the introductory set level, as well as potential bulk deals.

They've spent so long dealing with Mantic Fanatics that they've forgotten how to attract new customers who don't purchase like ScarletSquig does. Not that they've kept Scarlet Squig happy as a customer lately.


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 Bolognesus wrote:
well if 60% cheaper falls within "anywhere close" I sure hope you're not a building inspector or anything of the sort

Debating the price - fine. I'd say $15 would be a more reasonable RRP for these too, but to say they're priced comparable to terminators? That's a little out there, Bob.

More than $3 per figure, when the dwarfs have jack-all poseability or optional bits, puts them in a price point taken by metal boxes or more premium kits of plastic. Sorry if I don't know just how ridonkulous Terminators are these days, but arguing that expensive models are cheaper because Terminators are middle fingers with dollar signs attached is missing the point. Mantic isn;t selling terminators. They are selling decentish dwarfs with very little bling, flash or variety. They are not $3+ figures. Besides, the peacekeepers will be $4 per model, without all the options, bling and name-recognition that the competition has.

$15 before discount would be kind of high, but understandable. Still, it's not like they have a loan to pay off.


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 Compel wrote:
I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree there. In my view, less than half the price of the Terminator kit does indeed meet the "not even anywhere close" point to me.

Take a look at the sprue pics. Is that one sprue worth $20 to you? If so, great. We'll just have to disagree.

It's not 1989 anymore, you're not going to get 2 Land Raiders for 20 bucks. 3 dollars for a 28mm figure isn't a bad price, and that's before any volume discounts.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
It's not 1989 anymore, you're not going to get 2 Land Raiders for 20 bucks. 3 dollars for a 28mm figure isn't a bad price, and that's before any volume discounts.

And yet companies like Wargames Factory do give you a very good deal, a gak ton better than 20 bucks for a 6 figure sprue.

As well as Warlord, Perry, and Victrix. ~30 dudes for ~$40 USD, yes please.


That said, I am very happy with what I have received through the Deadzone project.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
It's not 1989 anymore, you're not going to get 2 Land Raiders for 20 bucks. 3 dollars for a 28mm figure isn't a bad price, and that's before any volume discounts.

For a plastic mini off a sprue, it is, in fact, a terrible price.

WGF gives you 5 times as many figures for the same price, and with tons of extras and arguably better quality. For sci fi, their Shock Troopers and the DFG stuff are both better deals with tons of extras and variety on the sprue.

The problem is that GW has been artificially inflating prices so insanely quickly that otherwise knowledgeable customers will excuse these ridiculous prices with all kinds of silly reasoning. But taking advantage of customers' self-abnegating reflexes will only work for so long. Today's customers aren't stuck buying one brand no matter what their prices are, but are better informed that they have more choice than ever before. After all, it's not the 90's anymore.


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 Compel wrote:


"These are the Forge Father equivalent of Space Marine Terminators, so 40% of the price, plus an extra model compared to them seems reasonable."
.

I just want to go back to this because I guess I misread it the first time.

Forgefathers are supposed to be counts-as Terminators? Based on what? Mantic's rule set? Well, that's cute. Better jack up the price.

If I'm going to use non-GW figures for counts-as terminators in 40k, why would I pick them instead of something cheaper? It's counts-as, right? Do Mantic believe their own hype? Why don't they price the kit to make it attractive on its own?

The website says the booster is £9.99 which is what $16 give or take?

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/pre-order/deadzone/product/forge-father-forge-guard-booster.html

So not sure why they are charging $20

 carlos13th wrote:
The website says the booster is £9.99 which is what $16 give or take?

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/pre-order/deadzone/product/forge-father-forge-guard-booster.html

So not sure why they are charging $20

Great, now click the little American flag in the upper right corner and the magic of the internet bumps the price up to $19.99.

Edit:
I think there's an error on the website; someone wasn't paying attention or the GBP just got a whole lot stronger.

I'm pretty sure it's been like that for months or longer.

 GrimDork wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's been like that for months or longer.

Then I guess they've learned the GW trick of regional pricing.

I did finish most of the DeadZone inspection and other than 2 missing Swordspawn, everything else was there and in mostly good shape. The Asterians had a lot of warped figues (about a half-dozen) but as spindly as they are I suppose that's not a huge shock.I thought about getting some more stuff on the third survey, but in the end I think I have enough after working with models off and on this weekend. I'm happy with everything I got, but I'm not really feeling like anything more is particularly needed.

In other news, my Mars Attacks game arrived yesterday, but between work and wanting to get DeadZone's stuff checked out I haven't gotten around to it. Tomorrow probably, and that will greatly influence whether or not Mantic sees any money for their DKQ or if it's a donation dollar.

Looking forward to the terrain stuff in a mini-DZ2.0 KS as well.

 Krinsath wrote:
The Asterians had a lot of warped figues (about a half-dozen) but as spindly as they are I suppose that's not a huge shock.

I noticed the same thing as I was cleaning mine. I just dumped them all in a bowl of near-boiling water and left them until the water cooled to room temperature. They all straightened right out. That probably wouldn't work if they weren't all so skinny, though.

Wait $20 US for 6 plastic figs?

As we are speaking about prices:

Mantic is becoming more and more greedy, specially in the sci-fi range. I got this feeling when the first steel warriors where released: a retoling of half a fantasy sprue, beying sold at 2x times the price of the fantasy thing it was based on.

That actually made me not want to buy them, and so i give it up from space dwarfs (for a while).

Now they apear to be goying back into a nice price model, at least for kickstarters...

Forge Guard should not be priced as (or even compared to) Terminators. The fluff suggests they are similar, but their size and poseability make them a lot more in line with PA Space Marines (indeed, im thinking about using them as such).

Zombies are good priced (i think), the bulk itself is impressive (c'mon, 80 models for 45?), specially with all that poseability and potential. I almost grabbed one bulk just for the sake of it (but remembered in time i dont have the space, the money or the reason for it ).

Now, we have not seem sprues of the Peacekeepers yet, and im not really sure about this. The price itself make it a good deal, but if the models come with weapon options and poseability, this can become a great "terminator like" kit, and it will be cheap.

After all, i just hope that mantic dont start to charge based on "unit utility" and keep charging by "cost to produce". And im still anxious about Warpath 3.0 Kickstarter

(But they have to fix some shipping issues first)

(sorry about the horrid text, im sleepy and wrote it very bad, i will not try to correct it, im still sleepy)

 mitch_rifle wrote:
Wait $20 US for 6 plastic figs?

That's what the store says.

I bet they think this will encourage customers to buy the big bulk boxes instead.

I guess it's the scifi tax

$20 for six for a sprue sans options is pretty steep. Of course, I'm definitely not in the sci-fi dwarf fan camp, so maybe there are enough people who will pay that to make it worth losing sales from people put off by the price. I don't begrudge them charging what they want for their product, but I think the "cheaper than random GW kit" isn't really the best pricing policy.

 agnosto wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's been like that for months or longer.

Then I guess they've learned the GW trick of regional pricing.

I've posted about that very thing in the past. Mantic want non-UK/Euro, non-US customers to pay for their orders in US$ for no real reason - I'm not able to pay in £UKP, and the exchange rate that they use is such that I don't order directly from them at all. Their prices are slowly crawling towards GW of a few years ago, but without the quality.

Would I pay double to get these instead?




Or these?



Yes. Yes I would.

While GW prices are insanity, one thing which cannot be argued with is the quality is top-notch at all times, with the exception of some of the finecast

 agnosto wrote:

 carlos13th wrote:
The website says the booster is £9.99 which is what $16 give or take?

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/pre-order/deadzone/product/forge-father-forge-guard-booster.html

So not sure why they are charging $20

Great, now click the little American flag in the upper right corner and the magic of the internet bumps the price up to $19.99.

Edit:
I think there's an error on the website; someone wasn't paying attention or the GBP just got a whole lot stronger.

Yeah I did that. That's why I was confused.

 mitch_rifle wrote:
While GW prices are insanity, one thing which cannot be argued with is the quality is top-notch at all times, with the exception of some of the finecast

Nowhere else will you find a higher quality viking space hover chariot pulled by wolves ; p

Freshly acquired tackle boxen in hand, I go forth to catalog wave 2 and populate my missing parts survey.

I could have sworn I had two dwarf baggies but now it seems that I only have one, so time to update my initial spot-check from the deck to the entire faction starter

True but you dont deal with the horror that is restic, ive tried building my corporation but its just terrible

Ugh, I seem to be missing one of those giant mining drills for the Forge Fathers. I wasn't aware I was supposed to get two of them when I was arranging replacements from Mantic and I feel kinda bad about complaining again.

Also, does anyone else feel the original Forge Fathers quad gun model is way more appropriate for the Urban Demolisher rules than the modified Deadzone model?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Ugh, I seem to be missing one of those giant mining drills for the Forge Fathers. I wasn't aware I was supposed to get two of them when I was arranging replacements from Mantic and I feel kinda bad about complaining again.

Also, does anyone else feel the original Forge Fathers quad gun model is way more appropriate for the Urban Demolisher rules than the modified Deadzone model?

It appears that the drill thing from the booster is the only thing I'm missing this time around; they even sent more dice.

I agree the original quad-gun thing makes more sense in a skirmish game than a drill. They don't have time to do any prospecting if they're just landing, looting and leaving (the three L's).

@agnosto I think he means the Urban demolisher, the late-coming add-on, not the inferno drill. It's basically the Jotunn cannon but with a couple of different parts. I think it's like a single high power auto-cannon with a mini-demolisher-like-scoop/plow instead of a quad-cannon like the original piece. I agree that the basic mode seems better, or possibly the Sutr heavy heat cannon even.

I'm missing the drill from my booster bundle as well. Is this "normal"? I thought I read in an update somewhere that it had been overlooked and was supposed to be sorted, might go check. --edit-- can't seem to find it now though

Asterians are ok so far, bendy but all present. The drone platforms and bikes are especially neat.

Forge father stuff looks fine too, just missing the starter and the drill out of the booster (and the plastic sprues but that's been addressed obviously).

Amusing enough to me is that the main thing I'm missing (FFFS) is not checked off on the invoice/description sheet

Another reason to check your bags carefully. My marauder upgrade pack has the right number of components but the arm to hold the HMG is missing and there's an extra claw arm. Not sure I'm too fussed, can likely use one of the extra arms created by this set to fill in, and then I've got an extra claw!

Yes, they forgot to pack the Inferno Drill in the booster bundle for everyone, they're going to send it along with the Forge Guard sprues