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 Squigsquasher wrote:
Sigh...So now I'm being accused of being racist...Again.

You know what? I give up.

You lot are obviously so dedicated to ranting and raving about how evil GW is and how anyone who likes them and doesn't play Warmahordes or Infinity is an idiot or a white knight that there really is no point talking to you.

Apparently not hating GW is equivalent to being a holocaust denier on this forum.

Screw this, I'm outta here.

Exalt!

Most (unintentionally) hilarious post in Dakka history. I'm calling it now.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
Meanwhile, in the "too many flat surfaces" department, look at Warmachine models. Nothing but flat surfaces.

I wouldn't say that PP do any better, but I would argue there are plenty of other companies doing better stuff.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
Spikes and tentacles have always been part of the Chaos aesthetic, just as angelic wings and gothic detailing has always been part of the Dark Angels aesthetic. No point moaning about it now when it's been like that for ages now.

I liked the way they were trying to do with the CSMs (ie the new raptors and the chosen/culstists from DV) but instead of giving us more of that they gave us dino-bots. Again, I like the knew DA knight termis but the land speeder thing just looks like a toy. They can get the aesthetics right but then they go and throw in some large model that doesn't fit at all.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
And how exactly are the new fliers "GI Joe"?

It is overly simple and not aerodynamic?

 Squigsquasher wrote:
Hasting's rant just seemed like one big long promotion of any company that isn't GW. Now that GW is the most popular wargaming company at the moment, it's become fashionable to bash them. If anyone leveled complaints at the Warmachine models for their ludicrous designs and flat, dull "details" or the Kingdom Death models for being, quite frankly, tasteless and stupid (tentacle rape boob monster, 3-faced giant with enormous penis anyone?) then they'd just get shouted at for being a "GW White Knight". Criticism of GW has reached such ludicrous levels that it is impossible to take hater's rantings seriously anymore.

How can it be promoting any company other than GW, is that not just bashing GW? And no it is not that becoming the most popular has made it cool to bash them. They have been most popular for decades and they have used that popularity to bully other companies and raise prices again and again and again. Again I do not like PP models but Kingdom Death, I'll give you a lot of it is tasteless but it is aimed at mature gamers and aesthetics aside the models are BEAUTIFUL because they are sculpted well and have lots of detail. I have not seen anyone called a "GW White Knight" for bashing any other company, though if you were to argue that Avatars of War's Warriors of the Apoc are not as good as the new Forsaken I probably would.
Have you ever considered the reason that people rant about GW (and that we can have threads about bad things they have done get past 30 pages) is because, as a company, they are making decisions that do not benefit (or in most cases actually hurt) us, their customers?

 Squigsquasher wrote:
If you don't like the designs, then fine. But don't say that they're actually bad or lazy. Because they really aren't. The amount of work that goes into making models is staggering, so you should at least appreciate that.

I don't like some of the recent designs BECAUSE they feel lazy or, imo, are just bad. Yes a lot of work goes into them but as has already been pointed out CAD is making everything easier and the Hellstriders are literally just new riders on old mounts.

Difficult to argue with a troll.

But nobody here says GW is evil, we are only flabbergasted at how dumb the higher management is in artificially thowing away the competence of its design team and burrying it under an abyssmal marketing and pricing policy. Their attempt at rising the prices 50% in just one year, starting at a point when price hikes already barely compensate for falling sales, is just unbelievable and economic suicide.

And you are the only one talking about how good Privateer Press is, in this thread. While Warmachine sells more than Warhammer Fantasy in USA, their pricing policy is also questionable with 5 metal riders 60-80 US-$.

Personally I think PP charges what they do for their models because they saw GW doing it and thought they could get away with it, too.

Agree with Sid. Copy the big boy... Except as i said before. The big boy should be using big boy skills to innovate. I say keep resin... Just up the game in terms of production and QA. Also give us a price break ;-)

 Sidstyler wrote:
Personally I think PP charges what they do for their models because they saw GW doing it and thought they could get away with it, too.

Crack dealers don't lower prices on crack when their customers are willing to do whatever it takes to pay the prices because they can't live without the drugs, no matter how much they actually dislike them.

I think everyone prices based upon GW. The larger market they gain, the closer to GW's prices they get. The only reason the small fish undercut GW is not because they are heroes doing the will of the people, there is no other way to squeeze in without being cheaper. As soon as they become popular, they will slowly increase prices to make more profit, or as they say... "we are new at this and had no idea it cost this much to make minis... as we do new things it costs more."

And a new drug is born.

40K isn't a drug nkelsch. GW aren't drug dealers.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
40K isn't a drug nkelsch. GW aren't drug dealers.

But yet... people who claim to have quit buying due to dissatisfaction continue to fall over themselves to buy new models they apparently hate... Almost as if addicted.

People can and are addicted to games and collecting. They are very real addictions people have that come at the expense of their health, financial stability, personal relations and families. I have known marriages which have broken up over hoarding tendencies related to wargaming. I have seen families torn apart due to neglect from people not maintaining healthy balances with wargaming.

World of warcraft is actually worse on people's lives than many drugs.

The way people continue to be unable to buy an incessantly complain while still buying shows addiction, especially for people who have tens of thousands of unpainted GW models, claims to quit buying GW models then continues to buy new releases *AFTER* they have claimed to not be buying because they are dissatisfied. Lying to others is one thing, but those people are lying to themselves, a very dangerous sign of real addiction.

The only way to have feedback heard in the marketplace is to withhold purchasing... Something people in this community are incapable of doing. They think complaining while endlessly purchasing will work.

What proof have you that "GW haters" are still buying their kits? I don't, and I challenge any you you to prove otherwise.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
What proof have you that "GW haters" are still buying their kits? I don't, and I challenge any you you to prove otherwise.

Usually thier posting habits and gallery threads...

Especially when people explicitly said "I refuse to buy the stormraven because it is ugly and GW screwed Australia and is immoral" and then less than days later they post "Oh Chapterhouse kit is sweet! I am buying 2 stormravens now!"

 Squigsquasher wrote:
Sigh...So now I'm being accused of being racist...Again.

You know what? I give up.

You lot are obviously so dedicated to ranting and raving about how evil GW is and how anyone who likes them and doesn't play Warmahordes or Infinity is an idiot or a white knight that there really is no point talking to you.

Apparently not hating GW is equivalent to being a holocaust denier on this forum.

Screw this, I'm outta here.

Actually assuming someone posting from China is a government mouthpiece, which is nothing more than some sort of negative stereotype, and accusing them of such on a public forum IS pretty racist, albeit at the minor end of the scale.

As for ranting and raving against GW? Like many others, I love 40k and I care about it and it hurts me on some level when I see it being so badly abused to wring as much profit from unsuspecting parents as possible, when it could be so much more than it currently is.

I will continue to play 40k, but I will find anyway possible to ensure as little of my money reaches GW as when I want to buy something. I'm also keen to start Infinity, and will start Warmahordes one day if the minis get less fugly. I don't think I'm somehow superior for looking outside the Warhammer universe for my gaming, basically a change in personal circumstances combined with GW's unrelenting turning of the screw caused me to look a bit further afield and I liked what I saw. If I was content with the state of the game as it is I would have happily stayed with the game I've loved since I was a schoolboy and never even thought to look.

 azreal13 wrote:

 Squigsquasher wrote:
Sigh...So now I'm being accused of being racist...Again.

You know what? I give up.

You lot are obviously so dedicated to ranting and raving about how evil GW is and how anyone who likes them and doesn't play Warmahordes or Infinity is an idiot or a white knight that there really is no point talking to you.

Apparently not hating GW is equivalent to being a holocaust denier on this forum.

Screw this, I'm outta here.

Actually assuming someone posting from China is a government mouthpiece, which is nothing more than some sort of negative stereotype, and accusing them of such on a public forum IS pretty racist, albeit at the minor end of the scale.

As for ranting and raving against GW? Like many others, I love 40k and I care about it and it hurts me on some level when I see it being so badly abused to wring as much as profit from unsuspecting parents as possible, when it could be so much more than it currently is.

I will continue to play 40k, but I will find anyway possible to ensure as little of my money reaches GW as possible when I want to buy something. I'm also keen to start Infinity, and will start Warmahordes one day if the minis get less fugly. I don't think I'm somehow superior for looking outside the Warhammer universe for my gaming, basically a change in personal circumstances combined with GW's unrelenting turning of the screw caused me to look a bit further afield and I liked what I saw. If I was content with the state of the game as it is I would have happily stayed with the game I've loved since I was a schoolboy and never even thought to look.

That's fair enough. I can see that I came across as a little offensive. I retract my former statement.

nkelsch wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
What proof have you that "GW haters" are still buying their kits? I don't, and I challenge any you you to prove otherwise.

Usually thier posting habits and gallery threads...

Especially when people explicitly said "I refuse to buy the stormraven because it is ugly and GW screwed Australia and is immoral" and then less than days later they post "Oh Chapterhouse kit is sweet! I am buying 2 stormravens now!"

Pithy anecdotes are hardly data, though. Anonymous and vague ones, doubly so. Could you produce those posts upon request, for examle?

Well also I am a limey c**t just like a lot of you on here :-)
In fact I am that white I'd probably pass the Daz door step challenge!

Anyway GW is not evil, not out to hate on us and it certainly isn't helping drug cartels launder money ala HSBC (well at least i hope not). We can just only hope that the company doesn't run itself aground.

After all 40k is probably the most expansive, grimy, believable yet unbelievable fictional place around and I love every minute I spend in it. The reality part (such as cost & bad customer service) can be, for the most part, forgotten when you are talking to like minded people who love to throw some dice about and move toy soldiers around a table.

Long live Warhammer & Warhammer 40k!

This seems quite plausible, though it seems more likely to me that it will be less due to them believing 'finecast is rubbish' and more due to them making it more awkward for online/flgs.

GW is not evil. It is out to exploit us as much as possible though, and I, for one, can't really tell the difference at this end.

 azreal13 wrote:
GW is not evil. It is out to exploit us as much as possible though, and I, for one, can't really tell the difference at this end.

You must be uncomfortable with pretty much every company going, particularly the types the pray on fan addiction (WoW, Football/Any Sport, Fast Food chains, Apple)

Keeping briefly on topic, I would not be surprised by the rumours, I strongly argued over the years that GW having the technology and manufacturing in house does not have great costs to make plastic moulds and they proved it first by producing single monoposed characters for fantasy and later without any reasonable doubt by producing a limited edition plastic model, if the economics of making a plastic kit were so huge a limited run plastic kit would be out of the question, finecast was a really bad decision they needed it for a stop gap between converting to plastic, but they should just make plastic molds for everything and skip finecast, they didn't because they prefer to sell decades old stuff and not do aggressive redesigns.

Now on the debate that has more interest to me, the quality with present technology assuming top level effort from the sculptors/ mold makers casters is:

Resin > Metal > Plastic

Resin holds the best detail and has the least shrinkage and allows undercuts, it takes time to be manufactured though is tricky to be assembled especially if warping happens and needs some consideration in cleaning since resin dust is not safe, overall it is a really preferred medium in garage kits and detail enhancer kits, because of its low cost as a material, holding great detail, small weight (most garage kit figures are huge) and the limited volume resin kits usually are produced, because of its nature it is also preferred for vehicles and terain, because lets face it a metal hill or tank would be astonishingly heavy a big downside is how brittle resin can be in a wargaming environment small parts can fail dramatically from everyday usage.

Metal is a traditional material for wargaming, it allows great detail, although not as great as resin, allows big production, has low cost in casting materials and of course allows undercuts, it has issues with shrinking but a good mouldmaker takes them into account and by its nature is heavy, it is preferred for wargaming because it is easy to manufacture can support industrial scale production and is (according to the mix of course) a tough material that can withstand easily tabletop usage.

Plastic is another medium, its the cheapest material to produce and this offsets its relatively to the two above described materials high molding costs (metallic mould and injection plastic machine) this is further reduced by the fact a metal mould will last for a lifetime if no weird accident happens and that an injection machine can run unattended and automated, it is ideal for really large scale production and has the advantage that a solvent can be used as a glue effectively melting parts together instead of traditionally gluing them, it cannot hold undercuts though and this alone reduces the amount of detail it can hold dramatically, it is a really preferred medium for vehicles and terrain because they are big and usually do not have areas were undercuts are important, but its limitation of metal inflexible moulds mean that models especially dynamic ones must be cut in many many parts adding to the assembly time.

For me plastic and its status as a much cherished material came from GWs propaganda above anything else, people long time in the hobby can remember how they advertised it so much in the past, it would be cheap, light, easier to to work with than their metals and something their opponents at that time and until recently simply did not have, it is a defining characteristic (we have it they do not) that set them apart regardless of its merits or flaws and something that really helped them in their bottom line, so they got two birds hit with one stone, both setting them aside from competition by giving something the others could not give, creating a demand for something they had exclusivity and making people demand something it costed them less to produce.

I firmly believe that without GW plastic would not be in such demand and it shows how influential GW really is.

Metal has again had its bad reputation mainly from GW whose metal models were nothing to write home about and I have worked with all generations of GW metal models from the lead RT era models were enough pressure could leave your fingerprint on them (yes I have one such marine) to the white metal era lead free (not really but 5% or less lead counts as lead free) models that were chunky misaligned and full of flash, yes, dealing with a 1mm misaligned body can be deadfull, having to pin joints that are simply flat ends is tiresome at best, especially if you need to do it 30 times and having boring monoposed models flatly aligned with the moulds cut is uninspiring, but and it is a big BUT, GW is not the only one out there, other manufacturers did and still do better than that, CB manages to produce metal models that go together without pinning, have already modeled in them attachment points to support assembly and in many cases are even mouldline free, same goes with many other companies including freebooters, hasslefree, GZG and others.

Resin while having a long tradition in models I feel is a "recent" true addition in wargaming, fueling many parts manufacturers terrain manufacturers and recently with "plastic resin" introduction going to the more proper larger production, I feel it still needs some time to define itself.

I feel that the big argument here really is single posed or multi posed models, something that people think its a metal VS plastic argument, plastic is not friendlier to work with when faced with single posed models and the recent GW single posed plastic models illustrate it, metal could be multi posed, but I hardly see a reason why do so, after all why make a model blunt generic posed in order to stick many things on it when you can more simply and cheaply make another metal model, on the other hand a plastic mould benefits from this blunt posing and split on parts both because it helps with the undercuts issue and because it allows fewer kits needed for an army it also nicely passes the torch of dynamic models to the modeler, been easy to cut conversions are "easy" so make your own dynamic poses or mix and match many kits to make something more individual, personally I prefer single posed models, the dynamic that can have even if this means they have to be multypart far exceeds anything a stock multiposed kit can produce, if I have to convert something I find it takes equal effort to alter the sculpt regardless of medium multiposed models only having an advantage in swap-able parts been available (if the ecosystem is well designed), I could give any example from Infinity's range for that, but to use an example that most of us are familiar with the newest Spacehulk terminators versus any terminator kit GW has produced, monoposed multipart models with good dynamic poses and great detail, versus blunt generic posed models that can be easily swapped together, if one would want to alter a terminator kit model (any kit) to a spacehulk dynamic model it would need quite some cutting and resculpting.

Spacehulk also illustrates the limitations of plastic, terminators had to be cut in many pieces to be dynamic, genestealers are flat and in some cases miss a limb because of the undercut limitation, even the terminators suffer to a lesser extend from this, looking at recent GW releases and those monoposed plastic ladies they produced, the dark elf sorceress and the vampires show again the limitation plastic has with the undercuts and how poorly it can sometimes depict organic forms, something metal and resin have no issue with with their flexible moulds even if it means sometimes the mould gets quickly destroyed.

And with that I will have to add that beyond all that the design philosophy is important, GW with their "use the mould eternally" philosophy and fast industrial production mentality avoid dynamic poses that would tear the mould apart, go for thick models and do not try to be adventurous, others are much more adventurous and dynamic even in their single posed models and in many cases take the risk to make models that will tear the mould apart relatively quick in order to deliver a cool looking odel.

Now as a really side note, I honestly cannot understand the comment about Infinity models been blunt, they have dynamic poses, each line has aesthetically almost nothing in common with the other! one could argue that a line that over 50% is the same power armour with X thing stuck on it, more than 50% have the same weapons aesthetically and sculls everywhere should be considered quite blunt.

nkelsch wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
40K isn't a drug nkelsch. GW aren't drug dealers.

But yet... people who claim to have quit buying due to dissatisfaction continue to fall over themselves to buy new models they apparently hate... Almost as if addicted.

People can and are addicted to games and collecting. They are very real addictions people have that come at the expense of their health, financial stability, personal relations and families. I have known marriages which have broken up over hoarding tendencies related to wargaming. I have seen families torn apart due to neglect from people not maintaining healthy balances with wargaming.

World of warcraft is actually worse on people's lives than many drugs.

The way people continue to be unable to buy an incessantly complain while still buying shows addiction, especially for people who have tens of thousands of unpainted GW models, claims to quit buying GW models then continues to buy new releases *AFTER* they have claimed to not be buying because they are dissatisfied. Lying to others is one thing, but those people are lying to themselves, a very dangerous sign of real addiction.

The only way to have feedback heard in the marketplace is to withhold purchasing... Something people in this community are incapable of doing. They think complaining while endlessly purchasing will work.

No.

Make no mistake. Ever since the train wreck that is finecraps came on scene I was never a fan. Along with the other scholck that GW continues to amaze and bedazzle with, THIS is the one and truly gobsmash idea that just needs to be... unthought of.

As was commented above, GW would have done themselves and thier namebrand/ reputation a service to have just stuck to the resin ALA forgeworld.

There is no addiction here, either. Haven't bought GW since they took the piss with the pricegouge from.... two years ago or so, the aussie thing, now, and the continued increased price for decreased quality in thier overall... everything.
Not intending to, either, because every time I begin to soften my stance, they one up me and do something or another that is equally as dumb, if not worse. At this point, I like to use them as the example of the little turd that could... have if they would have made some effort.

That "New and Improved WD? A trainwreck.
The Dark Angels rerererelease... underwhelming, however many skulls and wings.
The chaose started out of the gate and begant to progressivly take the piss.
The "6th Edition..." is just not as ... how would you say... exciting, I guess if for a better word. Nothing other then the silly "oh, heres a $99.99 starter set that has exactly less then the one you bought when you started out at 45.00.

They don't even care. and I think that is exactly what is the worst about it, so when KS jumps in your wallet feet first, don't cry... That is what progresses when you sit on your laurals and act like your the only thing going.

After awhile, as the LGS's all move on, because you've outpriced your target audence? You can sit in your one man stores, and wonder why they start closing as fast as you open them.

By and BY? All the ranting and raving about white knights and chinese rebel casters in the world won't change the fact that thier overall quality is taking a nosedive BECAUSE OF FINECAST.

Reapers Bones, are much softer then the silly gits, yet not an issue on them yet. I've seen two exactly so far.

A giant, and a basic fighter/ knight. Bought the knight, and the quality of the sculpt, irregardless of the medium- is spot on to the metal 100%.

Other figure companies out there have gone the way of several different types of plastics/ resin combinations, yet the exact same issue- No miscasts of every other one, no air bubbles, no excuses.

Smaller shops doing more with less... MMM who would have thought.

All in all? It just seems to me that the whole idea from Day 1 was executed with the usual disregard that GW is continuing to show for themselves, the so called "Players", and over all gaming in general. You know the worst thing about it by now is that it is becoming a running joke that everyone gets but them.

I still have a serious collection of even unmade and new stuff STILL at the house, as well. I keep it in hopes that GW would have eventually come to thier senses and got thier stuff together. It isn't my fault that they don't. It is entirly on them.
I do bust thier hump quite a bit, but it isn't just something I decided to do one day. It started with one slip, then another greed play, then another miscast, then a pissed rules set, then a sloppy codex, till the point of "Hey there, sports fans, we are moving the goalpost, another few feet.... here is FINECAST, 100% Better then metal... cheaper, too!"

It isn't just because everyone got out of bed one day and said, "Gee, you know I really need to start hating GW and busting on them any chance I can get for no other reason then because its the cool thing to do..."

As much as they boast about being a so called "leader", they are going the exact way of GM, Ford, and American Autos did in the eighties...

We all know how well that ended up.

As to the G.I.Joe comment- I'll throw one out at you for what that chaos stuff looks like.

ZOIDS.

http://zoids.wikia.com/wiki/Evoflyer

http://zoids.wikia.com/wiki/Energy_Liger

http://zoids.wikia.com/wiki/Ultrasaurus

It's not addiction, it is genuine horror, as to "What else can they do to top this, or the other, dumb!@#$ move by the company?".

Pretty much yep... Though quite often, the rabid fans of them receive my ire as well.

In saying that, I'll quite happily support something from those companies, if they are doing something I wish.

Did I buy an ipod? Yep. Did I look at getting an Ipad? Nope, the Nexus was a better product for me.

Do I actually feel like having a McDonalds once every 4 months, actually yes...

nkelsch wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
What proof have you that "GW haters" are still buying their kits? I don't, and I challenge any you you to prove otherwise.

Usually thier posting habits and gallery threads...

Especially when people explicitly said "I refuse to buy the stormraven because it is ugly and GW screwed Australia and is immoral" and then less than days later they post "Oh Chapterhouse kit is sweet! I am buying 2 stormravens now!"

Yeah they blatantly do like. I pointed this out two years ago! The ones that get the most angry are the ones with the most invested in the hobby, it's entirely logical. In fact we can easily test the hypothesis... Observe.

For example, all kinds of gak GW does is daft in my eyes, the prices are bordering on insane, the advertising guys seem to be ignoring how the rest of the business world operates, and white dwarf is as much fun to read as a parking ticket, but I don't get ANGRY about it because I've only got a toe in the hobby. I reckon I've spent about.. 700-800 US dollars total on the hobby in the last decade.

Now, if I was to name two people that seem to get really pissed about things.. let's say HBMC, and Agamemnon2

Be honest, how much have you spent in the last decade?

Conclusion - I'll bet my arse cheeks you are both over $5000. Hence the real anger, the occasional needless insults and accusations of "white knighting" when people strongly disagree about GW's actions and a generally quite worrying attitude towards what should merely be a pleasant relaxing past time.

Please be aware, I'm not trying to mock people, I think really dedicating yourself to something is in some ways a really positive thing, I'm just saying, it's an obvious conclusion that the people with the most interest are going to be the ones that take things most personally.

Surely that's irrefutable?

Over 5k in the past ten years? Unlikely. Of that decade, I've only been playing for about four years, and the overwhelming amount of my models are either secondhand, pre-2000 or discount purchases. In the past few months, I've spent 15€ on GW merchandise (I needed a new set of metal paints) bought retail, plus one Eldar Dreadnought from the early 1990s, which is currently being dismembered and repurposed. My "investment" in the hobby is at an all-time low.

Furthermore, I'm much more likely to polysyllabically and sardonically insult people than call them "white knights". That's a schtick I'll leave to other people. No, to see me angry, you'd need to attend different forums altogether, dedicated to my other hobbies.

@mattyrm

All reasonable comments IMO, but I think you have to factor in tine as well as money. Ten years is a long time to be involved no question, but some go back even further.

For instance I owned the original Rogue Trader, started actively playing in 2nd and can remember rules for whole games being published in White Dwarf (such as Confrontation which ultimately evolved into Necromunda)

Now it would be folly to argue that things were empirically better back then, but those who remember when GW was a company run by hobbyists for hobbyists, when innovation and creativity were the norm and things weren't made to cater to the lowest common denominator, are bound to be frustrated by the state of things as they are now.

Like yourself I try to maintain a balance, many more of my friends are outside of wargaming than in it, but I can't help but feel frustrated by the current state of things compared to what I remember from back in the day.

My name is Will and I'm a resinholic

Zanderchief wrote:You must be uncomfortable with pretty much every company going, particularly the types the pray on fan addiction (WoW, Football/Any Sport, Fast Food chains, Apple)

You're right of course. Although previously I suppose the wargaming industry had been small enough to not be subject to this kind of thing. Probably looking at it in general terms, the transformation of Games Workshop from 'by gamers, for gamers' to 'run by suits' was never going to be popular with long-term fans. But, presumably the share holders are happy to a point, and anyone new to the game won't know any different.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
Sigh...So now I'm being accused of being racist...Again.

You know what? I give up.

You lot are obviously so dedicated to ranting and raving about how evil GW is and how anyone who likes them and doesn't play Warmahordes or Infinity is an idiot or a white knight that there really is no point talking to you.

Apparently not hating GW is equivalent to being a holocaust denier on this forum.

Screw this, I'm outta here.

First of all, kudos for racial stereotyping and comparing your situation to that of a holocaust denier within 2 posts of each other. I believe a first on Dakka

Seriously mate though, take a break. If what you are reading here is upsetting you so much, then why try to continue getting wound-up over it? There are plenty of less critical places on the web, and I'm sure several Tyranid focused one which will no doubt have a lot more about just the models/painting, and less discussion about the wider industry.

 Kroothawk wrote:

faj3r over at Warseer wrote:I heard, from reliable source, that all finecast are going to be mail-order exclusive (my source gave it as a fact)

Comment was that it's possible, that the're going into plastic with characters - instead of finecast and metal - because it's cheaper and technology of plastic miniatures they have great these days (that I think is my source speculation)

IMHO it is possible - because finecast sales is (as I heard) very low, and almost everyone call it crap - and people are looking for the old metals on ebay, quality of plastic miniatures form Island of Blood for example or Vengeance is remarkable, and going back to metal it would be confess that finecast was a big mistake so it wouldn't be politically correct

75hastings69 wrote:I have HEARD via my sources that finecrap has pretty much been recognised as not fit for purpose, and within the timeframe I gave in that thread it is as Starfarer suggests that GW will go pretty much 100% plastic. They are presenting (or getting together the presentation) that FineCAST was only ever a stop gap, and that plastic is the real future.....

Plastic may well be the future, but not if its all angular CAD sculpted soul-less crap, with increasingly less detail..... that's not the future, I can buy that kind of cartoony crap now from PP!

Plastic is my medium of choice, so I applaud a move to all plastic.

This all plastic rumour shouldn't be attributed to me, I'm just passing on what I've heard.

A week ago, on 18th January:

75hastings69 wrote:It depends, when the inferior product (FineCAST) is sooooooo much cheaper to produce than the superior product (metal because of he price of the raw product) then even if everyone returned their models 10 times (which they don't) they'd STILL make more profit than selling 1 perfect metal cast. I'm not making this up its fact! There is however a long term goal, although its a bit shorter now and should be seen in the next 2 - 3 years if my sources are correct FineCAST is not work in progress it's a live product that is on sale to the public, it was work in progress for the minimum 8 months before public launch that they were meant to be testing it!

Try checking a blister/box for casting flaws, if Finecast gets mail order only

Well, as some one that runs gaming stores and orders direct from GW, I can tell you this is pretty much already happening. Every week when I re-order, most of the finecast I need "Has been moved to direct". I have less and less GW product on my wall, for the simple reason GW won't sell it to me. They will graciously allow me to pay at a much higher rate, and get the product in generic white label packaging. Somehow, paying more for a badly packaged product hasn't worked well. I still do special orders, but quit trying to keep the whole line in stock.

My blister display is a fraction of what it used to be, and getting smaller. All new releases are temporary. For instance, I got Belial in with the new DA releases, and I already can't reorder him. Finecast is leaving all stores, both independent and GW.

GW used to have a clue. They encouraged stores to carry more stock, so they could sell more models. Now that they have cut what I can carry, they wonder why I'm selling less. I explain the same thing over and over. The higher ups don't care, lower level sales reps have no power.

Less GW on my wall = less sales of GW in the store = more of other peoples games I sell to make up with it.

Out of curiosity, Mikhalia, what has been increasing in % wall space and hopefully sales in your stores? I know you've had problems in the past with PP restocks so I'm curious to see who is doing it right in your opinion.

Man. I've always found Mikhaila to be one of the most level headed posters with regard to GW. If he's posting stuff like this, then that really is a bad sign!

It really goes to show just how much the "GW hate" consensus has set in on Dakka when a thread about Finecast (widely hated here) going away is met with comments insulting GW!

 mattyrm wrote:
Now, if I was to name two people that seem to get really pissed about things.. let's say HBMC, and Agamemnon2

Aggy doesn't get "really pissed about things". He's just generally morose and melancholic. There's a difference.