DreamForge Games - Official News and Rumors Thread (KS coming March 25, pg 191)

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**Tannhauser42**

Unlike the GW style, the Leviathan isn't covered in extraneous rivets, skulls, purity seals, eagles, banners, and all the other bling GW plasters over their models. "detail" for the sake of detail, and all that.

**turgon868**

Tannhauser42 wrote:
Unlike the GW style, the Leviathan isn't covered in extraneous rivets, skulls, purity seals, eagles, banners, and all the other bling GW plasters over their models. "detail" for the sake of detail, and all that.

Love or hate that style, I think it works well for GW products. Although I can see the quality in the leviathan product, the lack of detail, in my view, makes it feel like a scaled up toy soldier as opposed to a giant titan/robot. Perhaps with a grittier paint job with more weathering and battle damage I could take it more seriously. I am glad to see another company other than GW producing high quality kits though! It's just not for me.

**Bolognesus**

...lack of detail? Really, I have one on my desk atm and I can't for the life of me figure out what you mean :S

**Theophony**

well GW just changed the webpage to say it is 6" tall

, Hope that doesn't hurt Mark, We can still run ours as Warhounds, or bigger knights

**Alpharius**

I hope that finally settles THAT question - finally!

I now eagerly await the long line of apologies from the "8 is Great" crowd!

**Theophony**

Alpharius I'll go ahead andstep up and apologize that GW can't make a model in the same league as the Dreamforge Leviathans, Nore could they manage to get the rules in one location, nore could they get the size right on their website or be able to compete pricewise with the megacorporation that is Dreamforge-games.com. After all GW has only beenaround a few years while DFG has a long history of putting out the best models in the HHHobby

**Necros**

When "miniatures" get that big, who cares anymore. just use what ya like

**Slayer le boucher**

turgon868 wrote:
Tannhauser42 wrote:
Unlike the GW style, the Leviathan isn't covered in extraneous rivets, skulls, purity seals, eagles, banners, and all the other bling GW plasters over their models. "detail" for the sake of detail, and all that.

Love or hate that style, I think it works well for GW products. Although I can see the quality in the leviathan product, the lack of detail, in my view, makes it feel like a scaled up toy soldier as opposed to a giant titan/robot. Perhaps with a grittier paint job with more weathering and battle damage I could take it more seriously. I am glad to see another company other than GW producing high quality kits though! It's just not for me.

Dude..the glue, is for the models, not to snort it...

**Yonan**

Theophony wrote:
Alpharius I'll go ahead andstep up and apologize that GW can't make a model in the same league as the Dreamforge Leviathans, Nore could they manage to get the rules in one location, nore could they get the size right on their website or be able to compete pricewise with the megacorporation that is Dreamforge-games.com. After all GW has only beenaround a few years while DFG has a long history of putting out the best models in the HHHobby

That's my day cheered up already! /hug

**turgon868**

Bolognesus wrote:
...lack of detail? Really, I have one on my desk atm and I can't for the life of me figure out what you mean :S

Lack of detail was probably the wrong phrase. It's the large areas of smooth surface I was referring to.

I have just seen the build and paint job in this thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/570038.page and it does look great. I am still in favour of GW's model but as I said - I am glad another company is making high quality stuff.

**AlexHolker**

The right phrase would be "lack of greeble".

**Theophony**

AlexHolker wrote:
The right phrase would be "lack of SUPERFLUOUS SKULLS".

sorry had to put it in American because that English is a hard language

**Salacious Greed**

Bolognesus wrote:
...lack of detail? Really, I have one on my desk atm and I can't for the life of me figure out what you mean :S

Listen, I own 2 Crusaders and 2 Mortis, and while the model itself is full of detailed, functioning pieces and parts, I have to agree that is is Plain. I think what the Knight has going for it is 25+ years imagery and embedded imagination of "detail" that its shape and form evoke in the GW group. Mark will simply have to build all of that up over time, as more and more imagery is pushed out with color schemes and individualisation. Until then, the Leviathans are just very basic, plain and utilitarian. Nothing wrong with that, especially when you consider the strong German theme for that. However, a bunch of color art showing unit color schemes or "Ace" individual heraldry would go a long way to starting a legacy for the Leviathans.

**Alpharius**

Theophony wrote:
AlexHolker wrote:
The right phrase would be "lack of SUPERFLUOUS SKULLS".

sorry had to put it in American because that English is a hard language

FTFY is a major no-no here!

Also, Australian English shouldn't be an issue, should it?

**turgon868**

Salacious Greed wrote:
Bolognesus wrote:
...lack of detail? Really, I have one on my desk atm and I can't for the life of me figure out what you mean :S

Listen, I own 2 Crusaders and 2 Mortis, and while the model itself is full of detailed, functioning pieces and parts, I have to agree that is is Plain. I think what the Knight has going for it is 25+ years imagery and embedded imagination of "detail" that its shape and form evoke in the GW group. Mark will simply have to build all of that up over time, as more and more imagery is pushed out with color schemes and individualisation. Until then, the Leviathans are just very basic, plain and utilitarian. Nothing wrong with that, especially when you consider the strong German theme for that. However, a bunch of color art showing unit color schemes or "Ace" individual heraldry would go a long way to starting a legacy for the Leviathans.

Well put. Far more clearly than my attempt. The Leviathan is great but it will be a while before it reaches an 'iconic' status.

**Mathieu Raymond**

Alpharius wrote:
Theophony wrote:
AlexHolker wrote:
The right phrase would be "lack of SUPERFLUOUS SKULLS".

sorry had to put it in American because that English is a hard language

FTFY is a major no-no here!

Also, Australian English shouldn't be an issue, should it?

Depends who you ask. American English is sometimes a challenge, and it seems to be the easiest of them all.

Mark... it's been a few weeks, do you have any kind of news for us? Now that my wedding's all done... I need something to keep me busy again... especially since Secret Weapons is now in pretty much full production, I guess you'll be getting more machine time?

**Slayer le boucher**

turgon868 wrote:
Salacious Greed wrote:
Bolognesus wrote:
...lack of detail? Really, I have one on my desk atm and I can't for the life of me figure out what you mean :S

Listen, I own 2 Crusaders and 2 Mortis, and while the model itself is full of detailed, functioning pieces and parts, I have to agree that is is Plain. I think what the Knight has going for it is 25+ years imagery and embedded imagination of "detail" that its shape and form evoke in the GW group. Mark will simply have to build all of that up over time, as more and more imagery is pushed out with color schemes and individualisation. Until then, the Leviathans are just very basic, plain and utilitarian. Nothing wrong with that, especially when you consider the strong German theme for that. However, a bunch of color art showing unit color schemes or "Ace" individual heraldry would go a long way to starting a legacy for the Leviathans.

Well put. Far more clearly than my attempt. The Leviathan is great but it will be a while before it reaches an 'iconic' status.

Drealforge models are iconic as feth.

Now yes without all the garbage that GW can put on models, it looks plain, but Dreamforge models are made to be Functional and practical, things that when you look at most of the 40k models, isn't possible.

Now i do like GW models like the next guy, but sometimes i really ask myself what the heck they where thinking when sculpting some of their models.

Now that maybe me, but i tend to imagine myself in the armor, in the place of the model, wouldn' those spikes been an hindrance when i turn my head?, wouldn't this prevent to tilt/turn my hips when i'm running?, wouldn't this be in the way of my arms and restrict my movements when i fight.

A lot of GW models fails this train of though, Dreamforge models are cool AND realistic, without beeing boting, its actual models and machines that are really though out and designed to go to War and fight mercyless battles.

Look at a Leviathan and now look at a Dreadknight ort even just a Knight, or lets say a Warhound, now imagine in your head how they move, fight and evolve on the battle field.

Each time i see the Dreadknight been heavely restricted in his moves because the way the baby carrier was designed, dreads shouldn't even been able to put one foot before the other, without falling to the ground, and lets not talk about Warhouns...

Now i know, its more a question of tastes, and what you are looking for in a model/game, but i personnaly like when models are believable enough, that you could think " Heck, that might actually happen in the futur!", even if there is Space Elfes, Demons and other crazy stuff, but a bit of "unrandomness" in how the models could look, is something good.

Why do you think Models range like Kingsdom Death is pretty succesfull, even if some of the Monsters are just Bat-gak crazy weird?, its because there is alwaus this feeling and element of "believe" that it might not be that far-fetched.

And thats where 80% of GW models fails, and that Dreamforge does spot on.

Come on,...admit it, even if its cool, SM terminators when you try to imagine an actual guy inside the suit, its silly and stupid looking, and what has been seen, cannot be unseen...

**Nuwisha**

Slayer le boucher wrote:

Why do you think Models range like Kingsdom Death is pretty succesfull, even if some of the Monsters are just Bat-gak crazy weird?, its because there is alwaus this feeling and element of "believe" that it might not be that far-fetched.

And thats where 80% of GW models fails, and that Dreamforge does spot on.

Come on,...admit it, even if its cool, SM terminators when you try to imagine an actual guy inside the suit, its silly and stupid looking, and what has been seen, cannot be unseen...

I always assume KD stuff sells because of the letters T and A, and occasionally P.

I kind of like that the Dreamforge kits allow for greater customization. Though the Imperial Knight is spot on for 40k rivets and skulls and skull shaped rivets, yarr.

**Andrew1975**

I bet if you covered the leviathan in 250 plus decals it could look like that too.

No seriously.

I do have one question. I hear a lot of talk about the posability of the leviathans, but they always seam to be built in the most boring just standing there pose? Why?

**Jehan-reznor**

To say the leviathan doesn't have much detail does it disservice. GW has a whole different design view, it is a semi-medieval gothic futuristic style, while DFG goes for more for a militaristic futuristic design. The only stuff on army vehicles is what is needed and some iconography by the crew, but no zillion rivets and skulls.

I bet if you covered the leviathan in 250 plus decals it could look like that too. No seriously.

I do have one question. I hear a lot of talk about the posability of the leviathans, but they always seam to be built in the most boring just standing there pose? Why?

It is just easier to store that way, when it is in its neutral pose.

**Agamemnon2**

Andrew1975 wrote:
I bet if you covered the leviathan in 250 plus decals it could look like that too. No seriously.

I do have one question. I hear a lot of talk about the posability of the leviathans, but they always seam to be built in the most boring just standing there pose? Why?

I built mine standing in a neutral pose because I detest "action poses".

**Azazelx**

Mathieu Raymond wrote:

Mark... it's been a few weeks, do you have any kind of news for us? Now that my wedding's all done... I need something to keep me busy again... especially since Secret Weapons is now in pretty much full production, I guess you'll be getting more machine time?

Hey! Congratulations, mate!

Hopefully Mark can give us some kind of update for your wedding present! Else we could start speculating for Wave 3 to hit us around Christmas 2014... if we're lucky.

**Conrad Turner**

Azazelx wrote:
Hopefully Mark can give us some kind of update for your wedding present! Else we could start speculating for Wave 3 to hit us around Christmas 2014... if we're lucky.

Even then, I'll probably receive it before my Robotech pledge hits! Palladium were originally aiming for delivery last Christmas. Once the KS finished, they upped the ante and said last October as everything was 98% finished. Since then, there have been delays due to Chinese New Year, and recently they said that they had just sent the money to buy the ingots for cutting the moulds for the base set. I only went in for the character models and the resin SDF-1, so it's very likely that I won't see anything until the end of the year at the earliest. This means a delay of 12 months or more from the original estimated delivery date.

As I don't expect the quality of the finished product to be as good as Mark's work, I am less happy with the delays on Robotech. Mark has already shown that he has a commitment to listen to the backers, and a drive to produce the best possible product. He keeps us informed - in the main, yes I would like another update on the hanomags or the Widows as that is what I had in my stage 3 - and the experience has, on the whole, been a positive one. I no longer spend anything on GW product, but am quite expecting to go in on Mark's next KS for something even though I doubt I'll ever actually play the game. (I'm a modeller, not a player.)

In contrast, Palladium have lied about their 'current' state of readiness, gone silent rather than admit they have problems, given us updates that are meaningless, and strung us along. I will NEVER pledge on anything else of theirs, and am only keeping hold of my current pledge due to my love of Robotech. Other pledgers have asked for a refund based on the vast delay and basically been told "No chance".

Dreamforge Games: 1,000
Games Workshop: 10
Palladium: -1,000,000

**Azazelx**

I'm also a RRT backer, though the state of that KS has nothing to do with this one. I am getting a bit tired of waiting for this one, though. Last year around this time people were predicting wave 3 in September while I was saying Christmas 2013 if we were lucky. The response of the time was "hopefully not that late". Now how optimistic that looks as we're about to hit March 2014 with no real fulfillment information in sight...

**Conrad Turner**

Didn't say they were connected. I was saying that things could be much worse. Ok, they are not going as smoothly as anyone hoped for, but it's not a steaming pile of horse

either.

Yes, there are delays, and if you only went in for Wave 3 items, or said ship once I can have everything together, then yes, the delays are mounting up and that blows. But that's the risk you took in the first place. I've had delays on all 3 waves, but none of the delays are as much as those on RRT - where I expect 12-18 months of delays from the original delivery date. (Which we are already 2 months past and they haven't even started cutting tool steel for the moulds yet so far as I am aware. Again, on a project touted as 98% completed before the end of the KS)

Do I want my Hanomags and Widows, hell yes. Am I loosing sleep over it, no. I'm getting on with other modelling projects and working on research for about half a dozen more. Admittedly, if I was invested in the game itself, the realisation that the longer the delays on the wave 3 stuff, the longer the delay before the next KS with the game system and the OF. But again, it's not the longest delay, and you can only live through it a day at a time.

Mark has been a lot more communicative where possible about this project and the associated delays than any other KS I've been on (Not many, I'll admit.)

Mind you, that also doesn't mean I'd not appreciate an update on any of the wave 3 stuff. I'd love an idea of such things as the Hanomag's engines. Are they going to be just a flat plate witht he top of the engine on so you can see something if you raise the hood, or will they be full engines? Not going to loose sleep over either option, and the first would undoubtedly be easier and quicker to produce and build, but the latter option would be totally amazing and make them show winning models.

Looking forward to picking my Leviathan up again to carry on some work on it, and getting to wrestle with the Hanomags when they arrive. will be doing some subtle rust on each, where appropriate, and hope to get mine someday onto the DFG website.

**UNCLEBADTOUCH**

If anyone in the uk has a 15mm set of capacitor coolers they don't want drop me a line and we may be able to come to an arrangement ;-)

Then it's just a case if waiting for two 15 mm HEL cannon.

**shade1313**

Update from KS:

I do not have any pretty pictures this time but it has been a while since I last posted an update.

Sooooo, where are we?

The 15mm Weapon arms are all complete.

The APC is almost complete, they still need to cut the tools for the left and right halves of the main body.

The Valkir and other heavy troopers are almost through mold split. I have requested a few changes, mostly in the legs but also on some arms.

This was in regards to some changes they needed to make to the mold pull direction and changing the look of some of the hard armor lines and details. I would rather see an extra part or two per figure than a change that effected the appearance of the model. It may be nitpicking but I know my customers want the best they can get from their assembled mini and as these sets have some very hard lines, unlike the more curved lines found in the Stormtroopers I needed to split the legs up a bit more than I would have liked to. The legs will now consist of a groin (a component 50% larger than the head, so fiddle but no too much so) and left and right legs.

The Zu Stuka Fuss is almost through engineering.

The Zeus has yet to hit engineering but it is next on their list.

The Command squad has yet to hit Engineering.

The Black Widows have yet to hit Engineering.

My last conversation with John my account rep was optimistic, they are moving pretty fast through the kits and he still expects Q2 to you folks but it will be late Q2 for sure when we add the sea travel time. They are requesting box art and that is a great sig. What I am certain of is that all hands are on deck and they are moving as fast as they can.

They are sending me samples now of all the 15mm Weapon arms along with samples of what has been tooled up for the APC.

The feedback on the tire material was fairly evenly split, I had hoped for a much stronger consensus one way or the other. I asked them to send a few test samples of the APC wheels in a synthetic rubber so I could do some testing with various paints and weathering powders and inks. As well as to test the material to see if it is at all sticky, and if it would pick up flock and other material from the table.

Thank you again everyone!

**Buzzsaw**

The Black Widows have yet to hit Engineering.

Interesting, does this mean that they have been concepted out, or are they still being designed? I'm very curious to see how the feedback has influenced the design... actually, now that I think about it, we didn't see any designs at all on these, have we?

Perhaps they are stealth troops?

**AlexHolker**

Buzzsaw wrote:
actually, now that I think about it, we didn't see any designs at all on these, have we?

That's always a good sign.

**Mathieu Raymond**

Thanks, Az!

Regarding the update:
Command squad ought to be relatively fast, as that is mostly known parts with a few add-ons.

Black Widows are, again, not a reinvention of the wheel. Tweeks to accomodate the female form (hopefully based on feedback from our female police officer poster), but not "from scratch."

I'm assuming the above also means that the 15mm Mortis is all done as well? Since it's not mentionned?