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It indeed differs per country. Though, for most countries for goods like this it's around the 20% benchmark, for example, The UK apparently has 20%, in the Netherlands we have 21%. Only thing is that ofcourse that's not where it stops, one has to pay the vat % and the import duties, which in the Netherlands are an additional 10%. That said, it's not always a given it has to be paid, I've had plenty of packages slip through the customs machine without having to pay anything for them. Rule of thumb is, the bigger the package, the more likely it'll be taxed.

God god. That sounds awful.

Croatia has 25% VAT...

 cincydooley wrote:
Is VAT standard for all EU countries at a certain percentage? Or does that % differ per country?

In Sweden sales tax is 25%, I think it's the highest in europe. The most annoying thing is that when importing, those 25% are calculated from the value of the entire purchase including shipping costs AND custom fees (0-20% depending on type of goods). So if you payed, say, $200+$50 shipping for your KD pledge, and custom fees were 5% for board games, the final sum you pay would be 250*1.05*1.25 = ~$328.


That said... I've imported hundreds of products in the last ~15 years since I started Ebaying and such, and nothing has EVER gotten caught by customs. I've mostly bought video games and small stuff though, I'm guessing board games with huge boxes would be harder to slip by. And if you buy insurance, you're completely screwed (never did that myself). I would never buy in to an American KS without knowing they are shipping it from the EU.

Thats just pure insanity :/ I knew it was bad, but thats BAAAAAAD!
You guys have my sympathies.

Well yeah, easiest way to escape customs is simply never to import anything from the U.S., there are plenty of cheap options within the EU usually.

 Ramos Asura wrote:
Thats just pure insanity :/ I knew it was bad, but thats BAAAAAAD!
You guys have my sympathies.

That's only from outside of the EU though, and also depends on the type of good. If something is shipped within the EU then none of it applies, vat is charged in the country it originates from and that's it since there are no import duties within the EU. ofcourse it also depends on the country specific laws but there's also categories of good where there's a far lower % vat or a 0%.

All in all, buying from within the EU is most of the time a lot simpler with regards to extra costs, unless it's sneaky small packages managing to get past customs without notice (for example, I paid vat and import duties on my 3 dreamforge leviathans but not on the box with 6 arms shipped at a later date).

But in the case of Sweden and all that jazz, I hear it's really useful, socailly speaking. Nary a day goes by that Quebec doesn't get compared to Sweden, or Finland, or Denmark. Usually negatively.

I crossed the $999 AUD mark for goods brought into Oz, so I'm getting done another $200 AUD or so to pick this stuff up from Customs.

Ah, well.

Hi all,

I wanted to throw this out there to see what people thought since I was planning to send a message to Adam/Anna about customs and declared values.

To explain, the Canadian dollar has lost a ton of value since I pledged for this kickstarter. The US dollar was nearly 1 for 1 when I pledged. Nowadays, $1 US is closer to $1.20 CDN. And based on my history buying resin figures from KD, I know that KD declares full value US when shipping. Which always hurts on top of the shipping as everyone here is pointing out.

So that $1000 I pledged for and paid almost 2 years ago, when it gets to customs, will in effect be declared as $1200.

My message to Adam/Anna then was that I would hope they would express some flexibility in regards to their declared values. Adam seems concerned about covering his butt, but I'd like to see if I can cite something legal, possibly from the 'General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade' to which the US is a signatory, that would help to reassure him into being flexible.

Anyone have any comments?

I think it's unlikely and would advise Adam against it and to put the actual amount paid on the declaration slip

(and this is from somebody who will be hit with a nasty big bill when this arrives)

I'd rather pay what I owe than risk confiscation of a miss declared package (plus potential problems for KD in the future)

I know people who were burned with extra charges during Reaper Bones I when the packages were declared at the pledge level rather than the actual cost with add ons...

early backers got away with it, but with lots of big boxes crossing their desks customs ended up figuring out they were being scammed

I hadn't heard this story. So what value was customs using to charge people then?

Ah, nevermind. I missed the part where you mentioned addons.

I wouldn't be asking for a misdeclared value, simply the value I paid 2 years ago, at the moment of the transaction.

So according to the World Trade Organization's Valuation Agreement there are a number of valuations methods you have to apply in sequence until one of those methods leads to a determination of value. The first method is the value of the transaction, and in the case of a payment for goods/services, that would apply.

There's clear legal ground then for the value of the transaction to be the declared value, and therefore the date on which the transaction was made is also relevant.

it really doesn't make sense that the value of the items was the exact amount of the pledge. I'm sure some of the pledged money was used to cover other costs...

As far as I know is that the exporter HAS to put the exact value in the currency that the person who ordered it paid for. No leniency in that, at all. The $ has gotten a lot more expensive for me as well, but that's the cost of doing international business and the risk of 'preordering' something a year plus in advance.

Am I happy about it? Of course not, but that was always the 'risk', it could easily gone the other way...

The value is what you paid in the original transaction currency at point of payment for customs purposes, this is then compared to the exchange rate at point of processing when it enters the country. It would be illegal for KD to declare otherwise and could lead to customs seizing shipments until true values are declared and proven. Which takes ages and costs even more.

Cergorach wrote:
The $ has gotten a lot more expensive for me as well, but that's the cost of doing international business and the risk of 'preordering' something a year plus in advance.

So what you're saying is "that's the cost of doing international business and the risk of 'preordering' something a year plus in advance [for the buyer]."

Not sure that I agree with that. Is there a legal basis? Because value of transaction also implicitly includes the date of transaction, and therefore all I would be asking for is some kind of flexibility on Adam's part.

Without a legal basis for your statement, it could just as easily read "that's the cost of doing international business and the risk of [selling something that's not produced] a year plus in advance [for the seller]." Why is the onus on the customer?

I suppose when it comes here to Canada and I get my customs bill I could dispute it, and show my VISA bill for when I paid for it and other supporting documentation. Not sure though how far that would get me, and whether or not that would raise flags at customs about these kinds of transactions (kickstarter and KD).

I don't see anything wrong with asking Adam if he could look at declaring the value at the most advantageous exchange rate either when shipping or back when the campaign closed. In the case of Canada, declaring it as $1000CAD, which is what was paid in January of 2013, doesn't seem particularly shady. Nor in the case of the USD weakening against a currency would it be untoward to put down the USD value of the pledge. At that point it's just playing the international game. Of course, I'm not an international shipping expert, so there may be regulations that state it must be declared in such-and-such a way.

Assuming for a moment that there isn't such a rule, since currencies are national he'd only have to look at present vs. January 2013 exchange rates for the countries he's shipping to, figure out which works out in the backer's favor (if it matters) and go from there. That's not to say it'd be a trivial amount of work, but in comparison to simply filling out the customs forms anyway it's a small addition. It might even be trivial since the exchange rates in 2013 aren't going to change, and comparison can be fairly quickly done in a spreadsheet. Just a matter of how many countries he's shipping to and how much of a difference it really makes.

In a worst case, he says no.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I think it's unlikely and would advise Adam against it and to put the actual amount paid on the declaration slip

(and this is from somebody who will be hit with a nasty big bill when this arrives)

I'd rather pay what I owe than risk confiscation of a miss declared package (plus potential problems for KD in the future)

I know people who were burned with extra charges during Reaper Bones I when the packages were declared at the pledge level rather than the actual cost with add ons...

early backers got away with it, but with lots of big boxes crossing their desks customs ended up figuring out they were being scammed

I have written to Adam and asked if he could possibly put the value in £ rather than $ on the import shipment. Lately I've noticed an annoying (and illegal) habit of the Royal Mail charging a 1:1 exchange ration when calculating VAT - That'll put my VAT bill up from roughtly £65 to roughly £110. You cannot dispute it was they refuse to show you how they have calculated the VAT until you have paid, now that is insane!

I've reported this to tradeing standards, seems to have only happened since it was privatised, but without further complaints they are refusing to take it further.

I've just read the EU regulations on valuations payments in foreign currencies they state:

Where factors used to determine the value of goods for customs purposes are expressed in a currency other than the Euro, the rate of exchange to be used is the periodic rate established in accordance with paragraph 13.1 This rate is applicable even where payment for the goods has been made prior to importation at a different rate.

It should be noted that community legislation provides that the rate of exchange to be applied is that in force at the material time for valuation for customs purposes.

13.1 establishing the rate of exchange. The rates of exchange quoted by the central bank on the second last Wednesday of each month are used for customs valuations purposes for the following calendar month.


Basically in short in the EU it's not the exchange rate when you buy that applies but the average rate for the month prior to the month you receive your goods

 DaveC wrote:
IBasically in short in the EU it's not the exchange rate when you buy that applies but the average rate for the month prior to the month you receive your goods

Heck, wouldn't it be awesome for the customers if, in the case where the currency exchange goes the OTHER way, if the company would have to pay you back money when they started shipping?

No, because technically we didn't buy goods, we invested in a business startup. He's sending us goods as a thank you, more or less.

Anyone know if this will go to general release once all backers pledges have been shipped?

overtyrant wrote:
Anyone know if this will go to general release once all backers pledges have been shipped?

It will.

However, KD has made it explicitly clear that the Kickstarter backers are the highest priority and will get their stuff in advance.

I believe only some of the cross-promo figures like the Slenderman and Animedude are exclusive, The main game parts will be for general release; many of the items listed on the Kickstarter had a expected MSRP release sale price anyways. Considering KD's history, though, don't expect it to be released to discount retailers.

 Still Standing wrote:
No, because technically we didn't buy goods, we invested in a business startup. He's sending us goods as a thank you, more or less.

No, technically we preordered, that's what KS says, that's what the law says. 'Seller' is legally obliged to deliver the product or refund the entire price.

The reason that there's no investment is due to the laws regarding investment are so strict they can't be used with the crowdfunding business model for Kickstarter. The reality is that if a KS doesn't deliver, you can't claim any money because there's no money left.

I know the EU import laws and regulations, don't know the particulars for Canada, but I doubt they are much different. Your basis for declaration of value is your receipt, your receipt is in $US, as you purchased in $US.

If I was Adam I wouldn't fudge on this AT ALL. You really don't want every Kingdom of Death package examined by the customs officials because a few packages were determined as having fraudulent papers included. Asking "Can you break the law a little by fudging the paperwork?" isn't cool, it's plain illegal!

Correctly stating the value in $US is Adam's responsibility, correctly paying VAT and other import taxes is your responsibility. If you don't agree, first read you are own GD laws and regulations regarding importing goods. I found something relevant on Canadian importing of goods in a few seconds.

 Absolutionis wrote:

overtyrant wrote:
Anyone know if this will go to general release once all backers pledges have been shipped?

It will.

However, KD has made it explicitly clear that the Kickstarter backers are the highest priority and will get their stuff in advance.

I believe only some of the cross-promo figures like the Slenderman and Animedude are exclusive, The main game parts will be for general release; many of the items listed on the Kickstarter had a expected MSRP release sale price anyways. Considering KD's history, though, don't expect it to be released to discount retailers.

Brilliant, this has made me very happy. Couldn't afford it at the time (to close to Christmas or the new year I believe). I'm glad the backers will be getting theirs first as I know the feeling from a few kickstarters that I was a part of that the product was in the shops a long time before getting my stuff!

You guys keep getting my hopes up for News and Rumors in here!

Sadly, the rather excessive VAT, TAXES and CUSTOMS PROBLEMS that all my European, Australian and possible Asian brothers have to deal with is...not news!

Here's something though!

From the Wrath of Kings Kickstarter - a crossover with Kingdom Death!

Update #101

Nov 21 2014

The Twilight Knight arrives in Arikania!
8 comments
14 likes

Greetings, backers! Today we have for you a look at the studio model of Dame Allison, the Twilight Knight, painted by Jen Haley. This resin Kingdom Death crossover is a Kickstarter exclusive mini!

Reactions:

Image 1: She looks so sad. :-(

Image 2: OSL looks nice.

Image 3: BUTT! （ ¬＿¬)

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Regardless, I don't expect us to get any actual news/info on the Kickstarter until next Friday. Adam is supposedly conjuring up a big project update to the point that this past week's announcement was cancelled because of it.

She wouldn't have to make that face if she just remembered to put her pants on before sitting on the cold, cold rocks.

Wow, those are some fairly poor/exaggerated proportions... normally I'm a big KD fan, but...

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Wow, those are some fairly poor/exaggerated proportions... normally I'm a big KD fan, but...

Clearly you've never hung around with a group of WNBA players with the kind of depression only cheesecake could cure.