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I'm not so sure GW actually ever released sizes for Imperial warships, and unsurprisingly all the non-studio material promotes different numbers - leading to some hilarious "scale charts" in the fandom. Because bigger is obviously better. It's why Space Marines grow in body height from book to book.



That aside, size only makes something a better target. "Star Destroyers" have that name for a reason. In the end it is weapons, shield power, armour, structural integrity and manoeuverability that are truly essential in combat, and there is absolutely no way you can accurately predict how those systems react to their counterparts from a different setting.

1. SW would get crushed on a marco level vs 40k.

2. Jedi can kill the average marine if they can hone in on him. If not, an average SM will likely shrug off the first blow and if the fight continues after that, will probably die.

3. A ST from both universes are meant to be equals.

4. 40k is a derivative of SW, Dune, and fantasy elements that have been given steroids - to compare the two is like trying to compare an Olympic gold medalist in rowing to his / her gene therapy child who's been raised by a cage fighter to perform in Cirque du Soleil.

40k's logic doesn't even make all that much sense in the universe either.

BlaxicanX wrote:
The average jedi would hand the average space marine his ass 9/10 times, regardless of what distance they start at or what the circumstances are.

I have no idea where the notion that a Jedi can't reliably "deflect" a bolt round comes from. You don't need to deflect the shot when the bolt round would literally melt the very instant it hit the lightsaber blade.

Being able to fire on full-auto is irrelevant when shooting at at target that can near-instantly travel dozens of meters, as seen at ten seconds in here. A Jedi would be up in an Astartes face before he could blink.

That aside, a Space Marine has absolutely zero defense against the force unless he is a psyker. There's nothing stopping a Jedi from casually lifting a Marine into the air, then throwing his lightsaber at him, or just walking up to him and slicing him in half.

It wouldn't melt. It would explode.

When Argel Tal deflected three bolt rounds, he was sent on his ass from the bolts exploding. The Jedi would be sprawled on his ass and proceed to be blown in half.

Congratulations, you have proven that Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, two very powerful, skilled Jedi, can move many meters in a few seconds. Do I really have to re-post the feats of Marine reaction-time and speed feats from named characters? You don't want to make this a feat war, and we both know this Blax.

I mean, look at Coleman Trebor, a Jedi Master and Council member. Who also happened to be easily killed by Jango Fett unloading his blaster pistol on him. Fully automatic fire on the average Jedi from a bolter means a dead Jedi.

Oh, and can you show me the average Jedi lifting something as heavy as a Marine in power armour?


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 DarthMarko wrote:
Vader would rape the whole 40k universe, then he would left Tzeench drooling in p duel....

But it would be interesting to see battle barge vs star destroyer duel....

Vader is a punk bitch though.

BFG gives solid sizes on ships I believe.
And Space Marines are officially, on average between seven and seven and a half feet tall in power armour. (So probably 6-7 out of - they gain minimal height, mostly bulk)

1-on-1, bog standard Ultramarines Tactical Marine, vs sog Standard Jedi Knight of the Old Republic, my money is on the Jedi every time.

The Knights reflexes would be faster, he would be able to dodge, repel or destroy Bolter shells (due to the slower nature of them, and their very design of a time-delayed fuse for detonation, it would likely be vaporised before it would go off.), the Lightsaber is effectively a plasma or melta band saw (In game terms, I'd probably stat it as Range User, Str6, AP1/2, Melee, Melta, albeit as the Jedi's only weapon), and they're specifically trained to be keepers of the peace and able to best damn near anyone 1vs1 or even 1 vs 5, and were generally used as high ranking generals and commanders in wartime, so SHOULD be able to kick the ass of a grunt.

Actually - lets look at it that way on the Tabletop.
A Jedi Knight would likely be along the lines of:


A Space Marine Captain vs a Jedi Knight - probably even money on either of them, anything bigger and badder - the Jedi Knight is probably on the back foot.
Jedi Knight, even master vs massed infantry.. well, there's only so many rounds you can deflect before you miss one and die.
A Space Marine Army vs a Clone army... eh... probably slightly to the Marines, though probably even money.
Ships? Imperial hands down.

I disagree with the clone army vs space marine army. It would be an either or affair no different from a regular Guard army.

Using the Star Wars RPG rules and the Star War movies to get a proper comparison between the two; I think the Space Marine is heavily favored to win.

Intercepting a bolt round with the lightsabre or force blocking it with the hand will still kill the jedi through the concussive forces of the detonations. In the Outcast Dead just being near a bolt detonation was enough to pulp human bodies.

The lightsabre will likely have some difficulty getting through power armor. Material in the star wars universe offers resistance to it, whereas a chainsword will have absolutely no difficulty in cutting an unarmored human in half.

Lets face it a Space Marine would easily ovecome a Jedi, an Ork would crush a Wookie and a gretchin would trounce an ewok.... but, to be fair, a Gungan would probably send a Tau home crying.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
That's entirely a cop-out answer IMHO, you can look at the capabilities of the two and make a comparison.

In melee combat, the average Jedi would probably win, due mostly to the lightsaber, which should be capable of puncturing powered armour (But IMO not easily).

But if the fight starts at a distance, the Space Marine firing on full-auto would overwhelm the Jedi.

I guess that is what it mostly comes down to, circumstances, if the fight starts in melee, probably Jedi. If the fight starts at range with the Marine able to fire his bolter, Marine.

Unless the Jedi is a telekine, in which case the entire belt from a heavy bolter fails to come within several meters of the Jedi, who then simply strangles the Space Marine inside his own armor with a gesture, or tells the genetic freak to swallow a plasma grenade. Kaboom. Or the telekine Jedi simply reaches over and pulls the pin on the krak grenade on the Marine's belt. Or our telepath Jedi convinces the Marine that he's not there. The Marine stands around, looking right through the Jedi his mind is convinced isn't there, as the Jedi walks calmly up and separates the Marine's head from his shoulders. Vawoom.

There is no "average" Jedi. There is no "average" Space Marine. In both cases, we have "movie Jedi", "movie Marines", "book Jedi", "book Marines" (being 10 different styles and levels of Space Marines by itself), "tabletop Marines" and "MMO Jedi", "RPG Jedi" and "RPG Marines". There's no baseline template to choose from. Skywalker (both of them) were powerful Jedi in their own right... but were nothing but punk Younglings compared to the Jedi of even 3000 years prior, let alone 5 and 10,000 years prior. Much the same can be said for the Marines in their own time-line.

Or the Jedi in question is one of those non-corporeal species that float around the SW universe. Bolters? Pssh, I'm a cloud of sentient gas. Silly bish, your weapons cannot harm *me*. And then our Force-wielding gas cloud causes the Marine to burst into flames.

...this "debate" is, as I said, always dependent on what forums its being posted on.

Then you get dudes like Darth Nihilus, who can kill a planet just by flying past it. No ordnance or Exterminatus weapon required. Feth your bolter, he's draining your life force from 50,000 km away, turning your Hive World into a Dead World overnight.

But lightsaber pwn chainsaw easy. I agree though any comparison would need to be made with fun in mind and not winning an objective debate.

 Psienesis wrote:
Unless the Jedi is a telekine, in which case the entire belt from a heavy bolter fails to come within several meters of the Jedi, who then simply strangles the Space Marine inside his own armor with a gesture, or tells the genetic freak to swallow a plasma grenade. Kaboom. Or the telekine Jedi simply reaches over and pulls the pin on the krak grenade on the Marine's belt. Or our telepath Jedi convinces the Marine that he's not there. The Marine stands around, looking right through the Jedi his mind is convinced isn't there, as the Jedi walks calmly up and separates the Marine's head from his shoulders. Vawoom.

First of all, telekine is a 40k term. I would truly, honestly love for you to show me feats of that magnitude from a Jedi who isn't exceptional.

Strangles the Space Marine? This is Jedi vs. Space Marine, not Sith vs. Space Marine. That would be very out of character for your random Jedi to utilize Force Choke.

As for a telepath, mind tricks only work on the weak-minded, which no Space Marine is. The average Jedi is not so powerful he can telepathically alter a Space Marine's mind in such a fashion, IMO, or even most fairly strong-willed people.

And there is one very notable detail you are forgetting: Space Marines are resistant to psychic powers, which, if we allow equivalency of powers this would translate to resistance towards the Force.

There is no "average" Jedi. There is no "average" Space Marine. In both cases, we have "movie Jedi", "movie Marines", "book Jedi", "book Marines" (being 10 different styles and levels of Space Marines by itself), "tabletop Marines" and "MMO Jedi", "RPG Jedi" and "RPG Marines". There's no baseline template to choose from. Skywalker (both of them) were powerful Jedi in their own right... but were nothing but punk Younglings compared to the Jedi of even 3000 years prior, let alone 5 and 10,000 years prior. Much the same can be said for the Marines in their own time-line.

Well this is just blatantly not true.

Qui-Gon Jinn, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker, Yoda, Luke, all are far above the norm for Jedi, like how Dante or Logan Grimnar or fething Draigo are above your average Tac Marine.

Lolno. Luke Skywalker is more powerful than guys like Exar Kun, Darth Bane, Revan, or damn near any overrated as feth ancient Sith or Jedi you can name. All are exceptional. All are less than Luke Skywalker, Grand Master of the Jedi Order. To reach or surpass Sidious or Luke's caliber, you need to look at guys like Vitiate or Nihilus.

Or the Jedi in question is one of those non-corporeal species that float around the SW universe. Bolters? Pssh, I'm a cloud of sentient gas. Silly bish, your weapons cannot harm *me*. And then our Force-wielding gas cloud causes the Marine to burst into flames.

I am not familiar with any Jedi of this nature.

...this "debate" is, as I said, always dependent on what forums its being posted on.

Then you get dudes like Darth Nihilus, who can kill a planet just by flying past it. No ordnance or Exterminatus weapon required. Feth your bolter, he's draining your life force from 50,000 km away, turning your Hive World into a Dead World overnight.

He can kill all life on it and destroy a surface of a planet sure.

Call me when he razes down the realms of Chaos Gods, smashes the Inevitable City with his awesomeness, or beats a Bloodthirster in the Warp barehanded.

Please don't bring Force aberrations like Darth Nihilus into this thread, they are very much the exception, not the rule.

 Shlazaor wrote:
But lightsaber pwn chainsaw easy. I agree though any comparison would need to be made with fun in mind and not winning an objective debate.

Perhaps, but there are people in the star war universe that have survived being struck with a lightsabre. Not many can make that claim against a chainsword, especially when wielded by a space marine. Power armor would offer resistance to the lightsabre even if it is just the press of vaporized material pushing against the lightsabre as it cuts into the power armor - remember that material does offer resistance to lightsabres; they aren't magically, 'cut through anything swords no matter what', weapons. Considering the chainsword which is crafted from adamantium, if there is even a millisecond resistance when the lightsabre cuts through the chainsword when the combatants collide their weapons, then the jedi just had his sword arm completely destroyed by the forces generated by the marine. Also the spray of loose teeth would be a severe hazard to the unarmored jedi. But, based on what I know about the lightsabre I think I am being fairly generous in thinking the jedi would be able to cut through the marine's armor and sword in a period of time that would impact a melee - which would likely be under a second.

Ignoring the “chosen ones” outliners with the jedi; the average jedi versus average space marines, I think the marine is the clear favorite in the battle.

Grunt13 wrote:Power armor would offer resistance to the lightsabre even if it is just the press of vaporized material pushing against the lightsabre as it cuts into the power armor - remember that material does offer resistance to lightsabres; they aren't magically, 'cut through anything swords no matter what', weapons. Considering the chainsword which is crafted from adamantium, if there is even a millisecond resistance when the lightsabre cuts through the chainsword when the combatants collide their weapons, then the jedi just had his sword arm completely destroyed by the forces generated by the marine. Also the spray of loose teeth would be a severe hazard to the unarmored jedi.

I don't think that the "merely" 1 inch thick plating of Space Marine power armour absolutely has to offer that much resistance against a lightsaber when we remember how easily entire Battle Droids are sliced in half within eyeblink. We'd have to compare material properties, which is when we delve into pseudoscience and fanwank, again making it impossible to come to an objective outcome. Similarly, both the lightsaber as well as a chainsword being of roughly equal length, why should the Jedi "lose his arm" if he just disables his opponent's weapon? The intense heat of a plasma blade could just melt the internal mechanics of the chainblade together; you won't see metal teeth flying anywhere as both sides of the cut will be a mass of superheated slag, rather than preserving the rails along which the teeth are dragged by the motor.

(on a sidenote, I would also assume that chainsword teeth are affixed to a chain, and would remain this way even if the weapon is cut apart rather than flying loose all over the place - even if they'd have an opening out of the blade's housing)

Grunt13 wrote:Not many can make that claim against a chainsword, especially when wielded by a space marine.

It all depends on where you're struck. People don't survive having either a chainsword or a lightsaber being stuck into their torso or cutting their heads off. Similarly, whilst losing an arm to a lightsaber does not have to be fatal, the same would be true for a chainsword. Humans have survived similar chainsaw wounds in real life, and it doesn't matter how strong the wielder is. Either the limb is off or it isn't.

First of all, telekine is a 40k term. I would truly, honestly love for you to show me feats of that magnitude from a Jedi who isn't exceptional.

No, it isn't. It's a term used in any setting, any game, that has people who move matter either by magic or through "special mind powers". A telekinetic is a telekine. We have people IRL who are called "telekines" because they appear to bend spoons with their minds. GW hardly has a copyright on psychics.

I would love to show you Jedi powers, too. Unfortunately, I live on 21st century Earth, not a galaxy far, far away in a time long, long ago.

Strangles the Space Marine? This is Jedi vs. Space Marine, not Sith vs. Space Marine. That would be very out of character for your random Jedi to utilize Force Choke.

And yet Luke Skywalker Force Chokes two Gammorean Guards in Jabba's Palace in RotJ. Anakin Skywalker makes *frequent* use of Force Choke in the Clone Wars series. Force Powers don't have an alignment descriptor outside of the various games, in which such things exist as an internal balance mechanic, not a comment on Jedi/Sith politics. There is no difference between a Jedi and a Sith other than one of philosophy. The Force is the Force is the Force. The term Jedi and the term Sith are best described as labels for political-religious parties descending from the same original organization.

It is also not impossible for a Jedi to make use of the "Dark Side" of the Force in those aspects of the EU where the division is noted. It is a constant temptation, and one that many Jedi fall for. There is no easy parallel in the 40K universe, as people don't just suddenly decide to become sorcerers and worship the Ruinous Powers to become unbound daemonhosts. It's not even analogous.

Qui-Gon Jinn, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker, Yoda, Luke, all are far above the norm for Jedi, like how Dante or Logan Grimnar or fething Draigo are above your average Tac Marine.

Movie Jedi and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Muppet. The entirety of SW is either focused on a given set of characters, with characters in the background lessened to show how bad-ass these named characters (as in, their names are spoken on-screen, not assigned a name in the credits or script or by the fans on a forum, but never spoken). This extends even to the EU, where you have your protagonist character(s), who, being the protagonist, are going to be lathered in "special snowflake" syndrome, and then you have all the nameless chumps around them who fail at tying their shoes because it makes the protagonist look like she/he sweats pure, 100% concentrated awesomesauce.

This is mirrored in 40K by having the IG sent to a world being savaged by doom-bunnies, but are killed to a man, so a detachment of Sororitas arrive to deal with the threat and, though they are valiant and save the lives of millions of citizens, are slain to a woman, and then a mob of ten Space Marines show up and proceed to kill off thirty million doom-bunnies with one magazine apiece for their bolters and a sharp stick. They don't even have enough sharp sticks for the whole squad, they have to share the stick.

I am not familiar with any Jedi of this nature.

Neo-Bespinian is the name of the race. They are sentient, and highly advanced as a species, and have no noted immunity or aversion to the Force. Thus, nothing precludes them from being Jedi. A character of this build has yet to appear in an EU source, and definitely not in the canon films, but given the materials' open-ended nature and established levels of canonicity, one cannot discard the possibility.

Call me when he razes down the realms of Chaos Gods, smashes the Inevitable City with his awesomeness, or beats a Bloodthirster in the Warp barehanded

If those existed in any way, shape or form in the SW universe, I might have options to display it, but as they don't, it's an impossible request to fill. One thing SW has in spades is religions shared by members of a given species, and sometimes across members of several species. One thing SW never has is any kind of actual god-being.

Again, this "debate" (and I use that term very, very loosely, for this is truly fan-wankery) hinges on the forum its being posted on.

Aren't Jedi just like howling banshees? Fast, skilled and annoying?

Sometimes.

Sometimes they are immortal Ents with laser-swords.

 Lynata wrote:

Grunt13 wrote:Power armor would offer resistance to the lightsabre even if it is just the press of vaporized material pushing against the lightsabre as it cuts into the power armor - remember that material does offer resistance to lightsabres; they aren't magically, 'cut through anything swords no matter what', weapons. Considering the chainsword which is crafted from adamantium, if there is even a millisecond resistance when the lightsabre cuts through the chainsword when the combatants collide their weapons, then the jedi just had his sword arm completely destroyed by the forces generated by the marine. Also the spray of loose teeth would be a severe hazard to the unarmored jedi.

I don't think that the "merely" 1 inch thick plating of Space Marine power armour absolutely has to offer that much resistance against a lightsaber when we remember how easily entire Battle Droids are sliced in half within eyeblink. We'd have to compare material properties, which is when we delve into pseudoscience and fanwank, again making it impossible to come to an objective outcome. Similarly, both the lightsaber as well as a chainsword being of roughly equal length, why should the Jedi "lose his arm" if he just disables his opponent's weapon? The intense heat of a plasma blade could just melt the internal mechanics of the chainblade together; you won't see metal teeth flying anywhere as both sides of the cut will be a mass of superheated slag, rather than preserving the rails along which the teeth are dragged by the motor.

Lightsabres are slowed by material, just rewatch the fight scene in Star Wars 6, handrails are able to interfere with the blade swings. There are other examples in the books, movies, and tech manuals explaining that the lightsabers will be slowed by what it is cutting through, the denser the substance the longer it takes to burn through. Most battle droids are nowhere near as durable as power armor as they are slain by the same weapons that sometimes fail to kill normal humans.

Lightsabers could get through marine armor given time. In the star war universe there exist material which could contest lightsabres for long durations. People armed with this material in the form of a sword could engage in prolong combats with the jedi. I believe that power armor would grant a fairly decent level of protection against a lightsabre even if it was just a second or two of deflection. Also one inch (I believe that is just the armor coating the exoskeleton) of super dense material translates into a lot of pressure once that material in vaporized. It would be like pushing a stick through 300 mile per hour wind (guestimate on my part). A lightsabre would have to work it’s way through power armor, whereas a chain sword would have no problem with the jedi’s robes.

The speed and strength of the marines swing would transfer that energy directly to the jedi if the chainsword held for even a fraction of the second on contact - which based on what I know about the lightsabre is a decent expectation. If someone was to stand by a high speed train track and struck it with a baseball bat as it soured past him, a double amputation on the idiot’s part could be expected. That is assuming that the jedi maintains a grip on the lightsabre, otherwise the chainsword and lightsabre, both would be driven into the jedi. I believe that the Adamantium that the chainsword is made up of will survive contact with the lightsabre long enoght for the battle to be resolved. But let’s say the lightsabre is able to easily sever the chainsword.

What happens when an active chainsword is destroyed two feet from an unarmored man’s face by a lightsabre can be largely conjectured. But, in almost every examination I can think of, it comes out poorly for the jedi. The lightsabres use heat to cut through substances, this method is very dangerous when faced with a chainsword. If the lightsabre was able to sever the chainsword via transferring heat to chainsword near instantaneously thus saving the jedi from any transfer of kinetic force: having a super heated hunk of slab in such proximity is lethal and the jedi could likely fry himself; the severed section of the sword is still being carried towards via momentum which would still kill the jedi; intercepting the chainsword would likely have the jedi being sprayed with the molten pieces of the teeth the lightsabre severed from the chainsword (when you convert the spinning teeth of the chainsword to molten metal, that material will then spray everything in front of it); and destroying an active motorized machine two feet away from an unarmored human being would be fatal for many other reasons.

 Lynata wrote:

(on a sidenote, I would also assume that chainsword teeth are affixed to a chain, and would remain this way even if the weapon is cut apart rather than flying loose all over the place - even if they'd have an opening out of the blade's housing)

Operating on the belief that the lightsabre have the ability to cut through any material instantaneously or near instantaneously (something I do not subscribe to). When the lightsabre intersects the chainsword which is rotating teeth at rather extreme speed the lightsabre would cut through quite a number of individual teeth before striking the body of the sword. These severed, molten, teeth would likely end up in the jedi’s face. Also destroying the chainsword could result in the weapon exploding. Also broken chain weapons have sprayed their teeth in the books.

You all seem to have forgotten one major factor.

Jedi aren't fighters. They are all defence. A Sith vs Space Marine... now that's a proper match up.

Kinda sad to take a break from Dakka for a few months only to find that these VS debates are still happening.

Isn't there a search feature?

There are aggressive schools of Jedi combat. They're just not depicted in the films very much (or at all, really), moreso in the EU books and RPGs.

There are even Jedi Snipers who carry what is kinda the SW equivalent of the Vindicare Rifle. Just because Obi-Wan didn't like blasters doesn't mean that no Jedi ever carries one.

Grunt13 wrote:Lightsabres are slowed by material, just rewatch the fight scene in Star Wars 6, handrails are able to interfere with the blade swings. There are other examples in the books, movies, and tech manuals explaining that the lightsabers will be slowed by what it is cutting through, the denser the substance the longer it takes to burn through.

The only materials actually capable of being used as armour against lightsabers are phrik and cortosis, and they are fairly rare. Marine power armour can be penetrated by a las round. Personally, I just don't believe that a lasgun is a more dangerous weapon than a lightsaber, considering that the latter would be closer to a plasma weapon - which is notably more powerful in 40k.

Grunt13 wrote:Most battle droids are nowhere near as durable as power armor as they are slain by the same weapons that sometimes fail to kill normal humans.

Like lightsabers?
As I said, it all depends on where you strike. I've never seen a weapon that "fails to kill normal humans" easily penetrate a Battle Droid's breastplate, though.

Grunt13 wrote:Also one inch (I believe that is just the armor coating the exoskeleton) of super dense material translates into a lot of pressure once that material in vaporized. It would be like pushing a stick through 300 mile per hour wind (guestimate on my part). A lightsabre would have to work it’s way through power armor, whereas a chain sword would have no problem with the jedi’s robes.

See, now you're assuming that a fictional material has some property that (to my knowledge) was never even mentioned in the fluff. That's exactly why comparisons like these don't work. The exact reaction of armour and weapon is too important, yet that is exactly what we're missing here.

Also, what exoskeleton? Power armour works by slapping a bunch of plates onto a suit of electrically motivated fibre-bundles, not like, say, the Powerlifter from Aliens.
Or were you referring to the inner layer beneath the armour plates, where the various gadgets would be located?

And are you really comparing a Space Marine's melee swing to the kinetic energy of a high speed train striking an obstacle on the track ...?
I mean ... okay, if that's what you think, but we'll have to disagree on that.

Grunt13 wrote:If the lightsabre was able to sever the chainsword via transferring heat to chainsword near instantaneously thus saving the jedi from any transfer of kinetic force: having a super heated hunk of slab in such proximity is lethal and the jedi could likely fry himself; the severed section of the sword is still being carried towards via momentum which would still kill the jedi

That would depend on how exactly the chainsword is parried.
Lightsabers are not the only melee weapons in the Star Wars setting, and the Jedi have been fighting the wielders of vibroswords and axes for millennia. I can only assume that it's not as lethal as you make it out to be.

Grunt13 wrote:When the lightsabre intersects the chainsword which is rotating teeth at rather extreme speed the lightsabre would cut through quite a number of individual teeth before striking the body of the sword. These severed molten teeth would likely end up in the jedi’s face.

I would think that those few teeth that do pass through the lightsaber's blade do not just melt, they'd evaporate. At least we don't see much in terms of molten metal when the Jedi hack through legions of Battle Droids etc.

Grunt13 wrote:Also broken chain weapons have sprayed their teeth in the books.

Well, "broken" probably means "exploding" due to contact with a power sword (or another chainsword!) or something rather than "melted together".

Your answer may be found in Episode III, Revenge of the Sith.

Observe how Jedi galaxy-wide are cut down without a fight in the blink of an eye as Clone Troopers pull the trigger under Order 66.

Lightsabres are slowed by material, just rewatch the fight scene in Star Wars 6, handrails are able to interfere with the blade swings. There are other examples in the books, movies, and tech manuals explaining that the lightsabers will be slowed by what it is cutting through, the denser the substance the longer it takes to burn through. Most battle droids are nowhere near as durable as power armor as they are slain by the same weapons that sometimes fail to kill normal humans.

Lightsabers could get through marine armor given time. In the star war universe there exist material which could contest lightsabres for long durations. People armed with this material in the form of a sword could engage in prolong combats with the jedi. I believe that power armor would grant a fairly decent level of protection against a lightsabre even if it was just a second or two of deflection. Also one inch (I believe that is just the armor coating the exoskeleton) of super dense material translates into a lot of pressure once that material in vaporized. It would be like pushing a stick through 300 mile per hour wind (guestimate on my part). A lightsabre would have to work it’s way through power armor, whereas a chain sword would have no problem with the jedi’s robes.

The speed and strength of the marines swing would transfer that energy directly to the jedi if the chainsword held for even a fraction of the second on contact - which based on what I know about the lightsabre is a decent expectation. If someone was to stand by a high speed train track and struck it with a baseball bat as it soured past him, a double amputation on the idiot’s part could be expected. That is assuming that the jedi maintains a grip on the lightsabre, otherwise the chainsword and lightsabre, both would be driven into the jedi. I believe that the Adamantium that the chainsword is made up of will survive contact with the lightsabre long enoght for the battle to be resolved. But let’s say the lightsabre is able to easily sever the chainsword.

What happens when an active chainsword is destroyed two feet from an unarmored man’s face by a lightsabre can be largely conjectured. But, in almost every examination I can think of, it comes out poorly for the jedi. The lightsabres use heat to cut through substances, this method is very dangerous when faced with a chainsword. If the lightsabre was able to sever the chainsword via transferring heat to chainsword near instantaneously thus saving the jedi from any transfer of kinetic force: having a super heated hunk of slab in such proximity is lethal and the jedi could likely fry himself; the severed section of the sword is still being carried towards via momentum which would still kill the jedi; intercepting the chainsword would likely have the jedi being sprayed with the molten pieces of the teeth the lightsabre severed from the chainsword (when you convert the spinning teeth of the chainsword to molten metal, that material will then spray everything in front of it); and destroying an active motorized machine two feet away from an unarmored human being would be fatal for many other reasons.

First, you need to see that scene again. Lightsabers have always been shown to cut through anything instantly. The exception is in the first movie where the lightsaber has trouble when the door is reinforced.

Lightsabers however are able to cut through anything including body parts without any effort. The reason a chainsword cuts through what it does is because of the Space Marines super human strength. A basic weakling can do the same effect no problem. Lightsabers are suppose to only have trouble cutting one type of material in the entire universe, a special material that is only effective against lightsabers (cortossis) If a chainsword is a basic sword that has to deal with things like armor, a lightsaber is a Power Weapon at a minimum.

Also in your last paragraph, lightsabers dont work like that. Fluff is kind of weird but if you cut something it doesnt remain at super hot levels. Its like a lasbolt, it is so hot it instantly cuts through whatever it hits and cauterizes the wound directly after it. Hence why characters (minus that one mistake in Episode 4) get arms chopped off and dont bleed to death. The same thing happens in 40k with Lasbolts except they are more focused.



Im not saying the Jedi will surely win, Im jsut saying that you miss understood lightsabers.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Vegeta would own them both

Bigu Bangu Attacku!

Why do they always add "u"s to everything? Silly Japanese.

 Eiríkr wrote:
Your answer may be found in Episode III, Revenge of the Sith.

Observe how Jedi galaxy-wide are cut down without a fight in the blink of an eye as Clone Troopers pull the trigger under Order 66.

Squads of elite soldiers fighting Jedi one on one. 1 Clone Trooper vs 1 Jedi is Jedi no problem.

10 CLones vs a Jedi and a Jedi is going to have trouble

 Galdos wrote:

Lightsabers however are able to cut through anything including body parts without any effort. The reason a chainsword cuts through what it does is because of the Space Marines super human strength. A basic weakling can do the same effect no problem. Lightsabers are suppose to only have trouble cutting one type of material in the entire universe, a special material that is only effective against lightsabers (cortossis) If a chainsword is a basic sword that has to deal with things like armor, a lightsaber is a Power Weapon at a minimum.

Cortossis has been ret-conned out of the universe. Apparently, despite after decades of being in the material, Lucas was completely unaware of it until they tried to have a cortossis weapon available for a Mandalorean in one of the Clone War cartoons (the same cartoon that retconned Mandalore from a blasted-out post-Apocalyptic wasteland into a happy prosperous planet full of hippies), and he had a conniption and forced them (no pun intended) to change it to another form of energy weapon.

 Eiríkr wrote:
Your answer may be found in Episode III, Revenge of the Sith.

Observe how Jedi galaxy-wide are cut down without a fight in the blink of an eye as Clone Troopers pull the trigger under Order 66.

You could have the same thing happen to Space Marines by disabling all of the auto-senses in their helmets and having the 10 IG guys behind them suddenly decide to shoot him in the back.

Also note that the execution of Order 66 is not successful in every case, even in the case of not-particularly-noteworthy Jedi.

 Omegus wrote:

 Galdos wrote:

Lightsabers however are able to cut through anything including body parts without any effort. The reason a chainsword cuts through what it does is because of the Space Marines super human strength. A basic weakling can do the same effect no problem. Lightsabers are suppose to only have trouble cutting one type of material in the entire universe, a special material that is only effective against lightsabers (cortossis) If a chainsword is a basic sword that has to deal with things like armor, a lightsaber is a Power Weapon at a minimum.

Cortossis has been ret-conned out of the universe. Apparently, despite after decades of being in the material, Lucas was completely unaware of it until they tried to have a cortossis weapon available for a Mandalorean in one of the Clone War cartoons (the same cartoon that retconned Mandalore from a blasted-out post-Apocalyptic wasteland into a happy prosperous planet full of hippies), and he had a conniption and forced them (no pun intended) to change it to another form of energy weapon.

Say what?

Jesus feth, feth Lucas.

Its a good thing I consider Timothy Zahn's word to be more canon than Lucas. (I dont care about the Cortiss thing, its the fact it would make anything that had Cortorsiss as an important focus non-canon which would include the books covering the end of the Galactic Civil War

Huh? @ cortosis

Its wookieepedia article does not mention that. You sure you heard that right? The Prequels had the Magnaguards parry lightsabers with their phrik-laced electrostaffs, too, so I'd be surprised if Lucas suddenly had a problem with the idea.

 Lynata wrote:

Grunt13 wrote:When the lightsabre intersects the chainsword which is rotating teeth at rather extreme speed the lightsabre would cut through quite a number of individual teeth before striking the body of the sword. These severed molten teeth would likely end up in the jedi’s face.

I would think that those few teeth that do pass through the lightsaber's blade do not just melt, they'd evaporate. At least we don't see much in terms of molten metal when the Jedi hack through legions of Battle Droids etc.

If the lightsaber was to heat the material of the chainsword to the point that it "evaporates" than it just flash vaporized it. Converting a gram of metal into a gas through heat would subject the jedi (and any likely any unshield human in the nearby area) to a lethal amount of heat and vaporized metal.

"A lightsaber blade was a mass-less form that neither radiated heat nor expended energy until it came into contact with something solid. The power of the energy blade was so great that it could cut through almost anything, although the speed through which it cut depended on the density of the subject." - Wookiepedia
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber

4 minutes into the video, handrails deflect lightsaber strikes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFvAeSJgjc

Grunt13 wrote:If the lightsaber was to heat the material of the chainsword to the point that it "evaporates" than it just flash vaporized it. Converting a gram of metal into a gas through heat would subject the jedi (and any likely any unshield human in the nearby area) to a lethal amount of heat and vaporized metal.

Since you've already quoted WP:
"The field contained the immense heat of the plasma, protecting the wielder, and allowed the blade to keep its shape."

Not sure why a small cloud of vaporised metal rising up from the impact location should harm the wielder, tho.

Also, I'd rather work with "proper" quotes from an actual book, as wikis - and I have written up wiki articles myself in the past - may not be all that accurate. For example, whilst I do not actually doubt that material density (marginally) affects the speed at which a lightsaber can cut through something, that quote too is unsourced and thus may well be just fan speculation. Similar to the speculation that Space Marine armour might or might not evoke such an effect.

Grunt13 wrote:4 minutes into the video, handrails deflect lightsaber strikes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFvAeSJgjc

I well remember that scene, but that changes nothing on what I said.
Here's a speculation of my own: We could assume that the handrails were perhaps laced with phrik or cortosis, or somehow magnetised in a way that it would affect the containment field emitted by the hilt. Movie pseudoscience go!

 Omegus wrote:

 Galdos wrote:

Lightsabers however are able to cut through anything including body parts without any effort. The reason a chainsword cuts through what it does is because of the Space Marines super human strength. A basic weakling can do the same effect no problem. Lightsabers are suppose to only have trouble cutting one type of material in the entire universe, a special material that is only effective against lightsabers (cortossis) If a chainsword is a basic sword that has to deal with things like armor, a lightsaber is a Power Weapon at a minimum.

Cortossis has been ret-conned out of the universe. Apparently, despite after decades of being in the material, Lucas was completely unaware of it until they tried to have a cortossis weapon available for a Mandalorean in one of the Clone War cartoons (the same cartoon that retconned Mandalore from a blasted-out post-Apocalyptic wasteland into a happy prosperous planet full of hippies), and he had a conniption and forced them (no pun intended) to change it to another form of energy weapon.

Nothing is ever ret-conned out of the SW universe, because that is not how the Holocron Database's canonicity works. It may not be considered G-canon (and is, in fact, not, as Lucas did not create the idea, nor has it appeared, by name, in any of the films) but as it exists in the various KOTOR video games and supplemental products, which are considered "C-Canon" by the Holocron team (being the official database of Star Wars lore). I'm not certain if it is ever mentioned by name in the Clone Wars cartoon series or other television Star Wars properties... if it is, then that would make it T-Canon.

Since the cortosis weave technology exists in the KOTOR games, that precludes it from the N-Canon (Non-Canon) category, and as KOTOR post-dates the establishment of the Holocron, it cannot be S-Canon (Secondary Canon) which contains materials not the films or statements by George Lucas that has variable or questionable continuity within the Star Wars license (such as the Marvel Star Wars comics from the early 1980s).

For those readers just joining in, here is the "pyramid" of Star Wars Canon. Note that no such thing exists for 40k.

G-canon is George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon. When the matter of changes between movie versions arises, the most recently released editions are deemed superior to older ones, as they correct mistakes, improve consistency between the two trilogies, and express Lucas's current vision of the Star Wars universe most closely. The deleted scenes included on the DVDs are also considered G-canon (when they're not in conflict with the movie).

T-canon, or Television Canon, refers to the canon level comprising the feature film Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the two television shows Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series. It was devised recently in order to define a status above the C-Level canon, as confirmed by Chee.

C-canon is Continuity Canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more. Games are a special case, as generally only the stories are C-canon, while things like stats and gameplay may not be; they also offer non-canonical options to the player, such as choosing female gender for a canonically male character. C-canon elements have been known to appear in the movies, thus making them G-canon; examples include the name "Coruscant," swoop bikes, Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters and Action VI transports.

S-canon is Secondary Canon; the materials are available to be used or ignored as needed by current authors. This includes mostly older works, such as much of the Marvel Star Wars comics, that predate a consistent effort to maintain continuity; it also contains certain elements of a few otherwise N-canon stories, and other things that "may not fit just right." Many formerly S-canon elements have been elevated to C-canon through their inclusion in more recent works by continuity-minded authors, while many other older works (such as The Han Solo Adventures) were accounted for in continuity from the start despite their age, and thus were always C-canon.

N is Non-Canon. What-if stories (such as stories published under the Infinities label) and anything else directly and irreconcilably contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N is the only level that is not considered canon by Lucasfilm. Information cut from canon, deleted scenes, or from canceled Star Wars works falls into this category as well, unless another canonical work references it and it is declared canon.

Source: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

Bolding and such mine, added for ease of reading.


... also, when it comes to Mandalore, the planet... it's been 1000 or more years since the end of the Old Republic era. Mandalore has rebuilt and regained prominence on the Galactic stage. Given the advanced technology available to the SW universe, this is not so far-fetched. 1,000 years is a long fething time.