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My brother let me shoot his FN 57 a couple years back. I did like that you have the ability to quickly crack off 2-3 rounds while keeping the gun on target. It's something that I'd never be able to do with a 9mm or .40.

Have you tried the Q5 SF or Sig X5 Legion or a USPSA race gun?

 Vaktathi wrote:
Been lookin' to pick up one of those...

Unfortunately, current gun regulations have neutered the entire line.

Well played...

 Ouze wrote:


I have an AR-10 and I absolutely love it, but it's a little too big for home defense. Right now I am using a suppressed AR15 SBR with 300BLK for that. It's a nice platform I think.

What barrel length are you rolling on your 300, 8 to 9ish?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Polonius wrote:
The only way that level of firearm defense makes any sense (and the studies I've seen have been self report, so keep in mind there might be some "motivated" reporting) is to think of virtually any conflict that ended positively while a firearm was involved. We don't have good data on firearm injuries vs. deaths, but I just don't see that ratio of injury to death to support that level of actual gunfire.

Anyways, buying a gun for self defense can make you safer in a few instances. If you practice very high gun safety, if you have no mental illness, and you have nobody in the household likely to borrow the firearm. Even then, you are trading the very real safety of simply not being in a household with a firearm for the risk of having the weapon.

One of the joys of being an American is that you can decide if it's worth it to you, but the bleak reality is that a gun is far more likely to kill it's owner (or even a loved one) than it is to kill a "bad guy."

Guns are used millions of times a year, many times without being fired, to deter or stop aggressors. This is a good thing. The idea that having a household without a firearm is "very real safety" is a false one. I had a neighbor defend themselves with a firearm against drug cartel home invaders who were after her dirtbag son. She was much safer with the gun than without. You may not be interested in trouble, but sometimes trouble is interested in you, best to be prepared.

As far as a gun being more likely to kill its owner, it's more complicated than that. Suicidal people kill themselves, guns are a convenient and effective method, so guns are highly represented in suicide statistics, but it isn't the gun in that case it's the person who wants to kill themselves. That statistic can not be extrapolated to the whole population. Likewise, if you practice good gun culture, which means safe handling according to all the rules all the time, and training each generation the same, you actually have a very low likelihood of issue. My family has had diverse arms in its posession for ages and no issues. If the statistics on "your gun is likely to kill you" had any merit, somebody would have had an issue by now. In essence, the probabilities mentioned are not properly descriptive or predictive.

RegularGuy wrote:

 Ouze wrote:


I have an AR-10 and I absolutely love it, but it's a little too big for home defense. Right now I am using a suppressed AR15 SBR with 300BLK for that. It's a nice platform I think.

What barrel length are you rolling on your 300, 8 to 9ish?

A little longer, 10" - I don't think you gain anything but weight past the 9" mark, but I got a good deal on the 10" on from Ballistic Advantage.

Polonius wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Also, that added risk of death is less than the added risk of owning a swimming pool or trampoline, and by a long shot.

I'd love a cite on that. I can see it if you don't include the suicides (which I wouldn't, but either way).

If we're getting back to stastics, and handwaving away the ones we don't like because reasons, then I too would love to see how we massaged approx 40,000 firearm deaths per year US to be less bad ("by a long shot") than around 3,500 drowning deaths per year US.

Even if we add in *checks notes* 6 people that have died from trampoline deaths in the last 7 years, which I will allow because I am generous that way.

Speaking of literal Dakka, my favorite axe these days is a 16 inch AR-15 with a binary trigger. I don't think a fellow can love a rifle as much as one with custom selected and self-assembled parts that ends up purring like a kitten. I only wish I had a lower that said "Safe", "Dak", "Dakka" Perhaps with the ork logo on the magwell. I should send a note to PSA, they'd probably make one.

I do like the binary trigger quite a bit, but as a former bump stock owner, I'm hesitant to throw down the cash for it.

 Ouze wrote:
I do like the binary trigger quite a bit, but as a former bump stock owner, I'm hesitant to throw down the cash for it.

Ah yes... I was sad to cut my fostech up per ATF procedures, but I figured, a) if we ultimately win in court (which we would if justice weren't blind to justice) I can afford to buy a new one, b) They are trivial to make if there ever really were a need for one, c) binary trigger goes dakka dakka nicely and is more stable for point of aim if somewhat less exhilarating.

All of this, including learning the fact that any semi-auto can bump fire straight from the factory, even a 1911, really brought to my attention the really nonsensical bogey man that "full auto" and "rapid fire" tend to be. It's nice that I'm not the only one as I observe a lot of people questioning the ban on full auto when semi can be fired just as fast. Mind you that's reason enough for a lot of people to say "ban anything that shoots fast", but once that line is on the chopping block a lot more gun owners come out to express their desire to keep their civil rights protections. Vis-a-vis the peaceful protests on Lobby Day yesterday.

I've played with my Binary a bit, but what unnerves me is that recoil likes to push the ambi safety against my knuckle and unintentionally move from "semi" to "fun mode" without realizing it.

Also, alas, I don't have anywhere particularly great to really go ham with it.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I've played with my Binary a bit, but what unnerves me is that recoil likes to push the ambi safety against my knuckle and unintentionally move from "semi" to "fun mode" without realizing it.

Also, alas, I don't have anywhere particularly great to really go ham with it.

Interesting, hadn't noticed an issue with the safety, perhaps a hand size/shape thing? Will definitely keep an eye out for it.

TBH I don't find the binary terribly useful, more of a for grins thing. In tactical matches I'm constantly just double tapping in semi-, unless were on the last stage and the drill is "empty into the target" or something.

I mostly enjoy having it for the sake of being able to have it. (and missing the raw dakka one could get out of a well anchored bump stock supported rifle).

Anyone who's had time to go full-auto on a duty weapon, etc. is well aware how pointless it is 95% of the time. There are a handful of instances when you want to flick that happy-switch, but most of the time it's just a way to run out of ammo too quick.

Would I like a lightweight support machine gun? Sure, but I don't miss select fire on my carbines.

 Ouze wrote:
as a former bump stock owner

The ATF would like to know your location

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
as a former bump stock owner

The ATF would like to know your location

Pretty sure Ouze has registered NFA items, so the ATF already knows where he lives

And he definitely wants more. If Iowa ever legalized machine guns, I would have an Uzi so fast. Definitely my dream gun.

One of many reasons I'm seriously considering moving to Texas. So I can haz all the goodies! Plus its cheaper to live there, which means more goodies!

So, can't remember if I updated from my prior situation, so I'll start over.


My father left me a .32 revolver that was over 100 years old but too worn to be functional. I found a collector at my workplace who restores guns with his son, perfect match. What he offered was the exact price my brother wanted for a .32 auto with two mags and a case of ammo.

Life got in the way, and I never got around to buying the pistol. Anyway, my mom decided she had no use for the one firearm left in the house, so she gave it to me: a .38 over/under Derringer. It's use? Close range theft deterrent.

 Ouze wrote:
[q

If we're getting back to stastics, and handwaving away the ones we don't like because reasons, then I too would love to see how we massaged approx 40,000 firearm deaths per year US to be less bad ("by a long shot") than around 3,500 drowning deaths per year US.

That's because you're not factoring in proportionality. There are 350 million guns in the US, but only 10.5 million private swimming pools. Also, we were talking about guns being dangerous to the owner, so we're really looking at 26,000 suicides/accidents with guns.

I see. That makes sense.

So i just brought home my new(used) Ruger P94. Got it for $250. Other than being drowned in gunky oil, she's immaculate.

Only odd thing is that the slide lock is not captive like all of the disassembly videos I've seen for P94s, so I'm not sure whats up with that.

 Ouze wrote:
And he definitely wants more. If Iowa ever legalized machine guns, I would have an Uzi so fast. Definitely my dream gun.

I was thinking of this myself. Full sized, or one of those little micro uzis though? I'd go full sized. I've always loved those multi-fold metal stocks. A while back one of the gun websites (Centerfire systems maybe?) had parts kits for ridiculously low prices where all you needed was a new receiver.

 Ouze wrote:
And he definitely wants more. If Iowa ever legalized machine guns, I would have an Uzi so fast. Definitely my dream gun.

Would you call it your "Ouze-eee"?





I'll let myself out...

Ouze's uzi.

I feel like this thread is about to burst into a chorus of Hubba hubba zoot zoot.

 cuda1179 wrote:

I was thinking of this myself. Full sized, or one of those little micro uzis though? I'd go full sized. I've always loved those multi-fold metal stocks. A while back one of the gun websites (Centerfire systems maybe?) had parts kits for ridiculously low prices where all you needed was a new receiver.

I liked the ergo of the full size uzi with it's collapsible stock. Kind of a neat little package. Never tried a micro. I don't think I could keep it on target without a stock to lock into.

This went to a weird place.


Definitely the full size Uzi.

I know 5-10 years ago Uzis were popular NFA select fire guns simply because they were "cheap", anywhere from $5K-$8500. I don't know if the market has changed on them since then.

They appear to tend to go for around $12k from what I've seen recently. There is no entry level or cheap MG market anymore sadly. Even stuff like Reisings are going for $6k nowadays, with Mac's increasingly inching up from 8k to 10k

I wish I could say I was surprised, but with the way the laws are, every select-fire firearm is only going to ever go-up since there are so few on the market, etc. As I said, the last time I heard people talking about the prices I mentioned was maybe close to 10 years ago. :(

 Elbows wrote:
I wish I could say I was surprised, but with the way the laws are, every select-fire firearm is only going to ever go-up since there are so few on the market, etc. As I said, the last time I heard people talking about the prices I mentioned was maybe close to 10 years ago. :(

Well, we can hope for laws to change. Hopefully we'll get some good court rulings that will allow for a challenge to that provision of the NFA.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I wish I could say I was surprised, but with the way the laws are, every select-fire firearm is only going to ever go-up since there are so few on the market, etc. As I said, the last time I heard people talking about the prices I mentioned was maybe close to 10 years ago. :(

Well, we can hope for laws to change. Hopefully we'll get some good court rulings that will allow for a challenge to that provision of the NFA.

For sensible people, 18 USC 922o was irrational from the beginning. The number of uses in crime of registered machine guns from the time NFA was passed to 1986 could be counted on one hand, so the move to ban machine guns laid naked the fact that registration and background checks weren't about public safety (which had arguably been achieved with the NFA), but were merely a pretext for prohibitions. People like to opine on and on about "why don't you support common sense gun safety" measures, but all you need to do is point back to the 1986 Hughes amendment to illustrate why gun owners do not believe in and fight against further expansion of policies demonstrated to be instrumental in further stripping people of their basic rights.

There's a lot of cultural education to occur and countering of the propaganda factories that are media and government schools on this front though before any progress is going to come. It's that culture changing that gun owners need to take a personal stake in.

Apparently all the voodoo that went missing from the last few SHOT shows was saved up for this year.

Apparently PSA is going to be making...everything, almost literally. Roller lock MP5's, Chinese spiker pattern AK's, AK103 approximations, RPK trunnion 5.56 AK's running STANAG magwells, Krink pistols, offering variations with both in-house and FN made CHF barrels, their own new AR upper (looks like a B&T gun actually) that doesn't need a buffer tube and can have a collapsing stock, their own line of handguns, and they're apparently starting development on SVD's.

Kalashnikov USA is apparently doing a really close 1:1 AK103 clone to follow up their 9mm.

DSA is doing heavy barrel Israeli pattern FAL's.

Brownells is doing all sorts of crazy AR-180 based stuff.

Seems like tons of import-replacements and retro styles going on.

EDIT: also, apparently IWI is going to start making...AR's