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 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So, I just learned Bolos ammo is a thing for Shotguns.

Given their billing, you’d think a splatter flick would’ve featured such a thing!

They're just as impressive as other gimmick rounds, as in not. Stick with 00 buckshot. There's a reason it's existed as the no1 defense option for shotguns so long.

Some gimmick rounds are impressive, just maybe not for their price point. Those Dumbbell rounds seemed to do some nasty damage, though the difference between any type of slug in a home defense situation is mostly academic.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So, I just learned Bolos ammo is a thing for Shotguns.

Given their billing, you’d think a splatter flick would’ve featured such a thing!

They're just as impressive as other gimmick rounds, as in not. Stick with 00 buckshot. There's a reason it's existed as the no1 defense option for shotguns so long.

Some gimmick rounds are impressive, just maybe not for their price point. Those Dumbbell rounds seemed to do some nasty damage, though the difference between any type of slug in a home defense situation is mostly academic.

To each their own, but like I said, good old fashioned 00 buckshot has worked just fine for a long, long time.

Since when has reality interfered with splatter horror!

Cool video though, been watching a few

Wooot!

https://fox5sandiego.com/news/california-news/judge-tosses-calif-ammunition-purchase-law/

We can buy ammo online in CA again! for the moment anyway.

Folks.

I’ve a question for you. And it’s ‘have you ever had to do home defence with your legally owned Dakka?’

This is not some British snooty sneery question. I’m really not going anywhere with this.

Zero agenda. Purely a question.

Answers can be either simple yay or nay. If yay, I shall not press you further, because I get there’s a very, very high chance it was traumatic.

And given potential trauma. I genuinely and sincerely apologise if I’ve set something off.

For the record, I respect your countries laws, and your subsequent decision to own firearms. And I genuinely, deeply hope you *haven’t* had to use them in anger or heat of moment.

Grey Templar wrote:Wooot!

https://fox5sandiego.com/news/california-news/judge-tosses-calif-ammunition-purchase-law/

We can buy ammo online in CA again! for the moment anyway.

I suspect that will last about as long as the "hicap" mag strikedown before a stay gets thrown out, but hopefully it'll at least last long enough to get something delivered! Glad that wasn't a thing when I still lived in CA, that'd make any range trip a giant PITA.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Folks.

I’ve a question for you. And it’s ‘have you ever had to do home defence with your legally owned Dakka?’

This is not some British snooty sneery question. I’m really not going anywhere with this.

Zero agenda. Purely a question.

Answers can be either simple yay or nay. If yay, I shall not press you further, because I get there’s a very, very high chance it was traumatic.

And given potential trauma. I genuinely and sincerely apologise if I’ve set something off.

For the record, I respect your countries laws, and your subsequent decision to own firearms. And I genuinely, deeply hope you *haven’t* had to use them in anger or heat of moment.

For myself personally, I have not ever had to, and am thankful I have not. In general, something happening at home isn't something I really worry about given the nature of my life and where I live (and a knife is honestly far more likely to be both at hand and handy within my tiny apartment), most of my legally owned dakka is purely for fun/historical interest, and the one gun I actually bought specifically for self defense (a compact revolver) is for being oot and aboot, not really at home.

At home, no I have not. I did have to draw on a guy once, but never fired. I was carrying my store's daily deposit, alone, at night, long after the area was dark and everyone else had left. This wasn't a residential neighborhood (except for one single shack), so when I saw a stranger making a beeline strait towards me it was a dead giveaway what was about to happen.

My parents have in the early 1970's. They built one of the first new homes in their part of the city. At the time there was only one elderly couple across the street and half-built houses for blocks. A guy kept waiting until my dad left for work and tried kicking the door in. Luckily my mother was armed. Also, feral dogs roamed at the time and were a major danger to ANYONE. There were about a dozen of them and would attack even small groups of adult men. My dad popped one in the front yard with his revolver, and the cops turned a blind eye when he sniped a few of them with his rifle.

We live on 40 acres in a rural area. There is a big iron gate at the road and then you have a 1/4 mile hike up the driveway to get to the house. Gate is closed/locked unless I have someone coming over (I don't share the combination with many folks.)

One night about a year and a half ago daughter was out feeding animals after dark (we have horses/goats/chickens and other critters). She texted me to say she saw what appeared to be someone with a flashlight over by where we park our cars.

Yes, I had a gun with me when I went to check it out.

May years ago,when the US still had bases in Panama, we lived on post. I did not have any guns in the house. It was difficult to bring them into Panama and we were not allowed to have them in our quarters, we were supposed to keep them in a unit arms room, so when we moved there I left them all at my Dad's house in Texas.

One morning (like 0200 in the morning) some dudes tried to break in. I confronted them with a machete because it was all I had. I would MUCH have preferred a gun. Had a few other incidents while living there which being armed would have been a good thing.

A few years ago when we lived by Ft Bragg, my Wife, Daughter and I went on post for something one evening. You can't bring a gun on post so I was unarmed. On the way home, again in a rural area, some dude tried to run us off the road. He pulled in front of us and stopped, forcing us to stop, came out of his car and rushed my truck, trying to beat on the window/kick the door. I pulled around his car and wife called the police on her cell phone. Guy was chasing us, repeatedly trying to run us off the road. I did not want to drive to the house because I did not want the gak bird to know where I lived. Trying to get a cop to meet us proved impossible. In over 20 minutes of being chased we could not get a cop. Granted, we did cross a county line but wife was trying to get the dispatcher she was talking to to tell us where to drive to meet up with some law enforcement. We finally lost the guy, took a 'surveillance detection' route home to make sure I was not followed, and met with a cop who drove to our house to take a report over an hour later.

I very much wish I had been armed during that nightmare. With my wife and daughter in the vehicle, not being able to protect them very much bothered me.

Fortunate enough to say I haven't in my personal life had to draw a firearm. Obviously I did on several occasions while on duty but was fortunate enough to never need to engage someone properly.

I've received a phone call from my brother though who was at my folks house when a neighbor's kid decided to host a high school party. While my folks live in a nice neighborhood, the usual high school thing happened. Friends inviting friends inviting friends...and one thing led to another and some dirt bags showed up, and gunshots were fired. In an above-average suburban subdivision. This led to kids running all over the place, through my folks yard and some of the thugs driving over peoples yards to escape the police when they responded. It was an eye-opener for my folks and my brother - namely because the SAME THING happened a few months later. Same kid...same high school crowd, more gunshots.

No matter where you live, stupid can swing by for a visit. My folks' house was not struck by any rounds, but it brought home the reality that the potential need to defend yourself can happen anywhere.

In my previous line of work, in our state, the cartels operated with great frequency. Shootouts on the highway were common, and the local shopping mall had the highest vehicle theft rate in the entire country (because of its size and access to a highway leading to the Mexican border). Several fellow agents had vehicles stolen, luckily not at gunpoint. If you own a truck or van and live in the Phoenix area...there's a shockingly high chance you're going to have that vehicle stolen. My buddy's first on-duty shooting was a result of such a theft.

Because of the cartels operations, which included "false" police units, it was not uncommon for us to be heavily armed even when at home. The various cartels battling for the smuggling routes there would raid each other's stash houses with fake police vehicles and everyone dressed up in Phoenix or Tucson SWAT gear and uniforms, etc. Fortunately this is all bad news, so it was rarely ever published or talked about, but suffice to say it was uncomfortable knowing how freely the cartels operated in these major cities. Even as a non-agent, I'd be damn sure to be armed/protected whenever possible.

So, fortunately my personal experience has never required drawing/engaging with a firearm; but my life experiences have shown me the utility and need for self defense.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Folks.

I’ve a question for you. And it’s ‘have you ever had to do home defence with your legally owned Dakka?’

Many years ago, but yes. My parents house has a police response time of about 30 min to an hour, a fact that has led to several groups of organized robbers forming over the years in their area. Some of whom have been surprisingly, and illegally in some cases, well armed.

I have a similar problem. Where I live, there is not a local police department, we are at the mercy of the county sheriff - and the response time is about 30 minutes, usually. If anything ever goes down where I live, i am on my own until it is long over.

I have never fired a shot in anger and I hope I never have to, just as I hope to never need the fire extinguisher in my kitchen.

 Ouze wrote:
I have a similar problem. Where I live, there is not a local police department, we are at the mercy of the county sheriff - and the response time is about 30 minutes, usually. If anything ever goes down where I live, i am on my own until it is long over.

I have never fired a shot in anger and I hope I never have to, just as I hope to never need the fire extinguisher in my kitchen.

See, you HAVE a sheriff. We have to wait on the state police to drive from their nearest barracks.

I have an HK91 and an HK93. I love these things, and I've always wanted to get an MP5 to complete the set. However, those things are EXPENSIVE.

I think I may have decided on an alternative. The Stibog SR9 A3. The newest version of this gun is a 9mm roller-delayed action, so very similar to an MP5. Also, the previous two versions could be had for under $700, so that's not too shabby.

Great reliability and accuracy, good reviews, easy to disassemble, tough as nails. There's even an aftermarket lower that will allow you to use AR grips and trigger groups, and will allow you to use Glock mags.

https://www.grandpowerusa.net/stribog-line/stribog-sr9-a3/

The Stribog's are pretty sweet, I've been waiting for the A3 to drop as well (though it's likely going to be more expensive, closer to 1k from what I've heard) and am strongly considering getting one.

The HK SP5 out right now is pretty sweet, but is 3-4x the price of the current Stribogs. I've considered a POF MP5 as they're about a grand cheaper, but even those aren't cheap or super common.

For those of you that have done it (United States) how much of a pain in the butt was it to make a short-barreled rifle?

As previously stated I want to get a Stribog, but if I get it, I may as well get it EXACTLY in the configuration I want, which includes a collapsible stock and vertical foregrip.

How long did it take? How much Federal Anal Probing took place? Was the time, effort, and money worth it in your opinion?

I have SBR'd an AR, and also done a suppressor. Vaktathi, IIRC, has done a lot more than that. The process is fundamentally the same but I went about it differently each time.

For the SBR, I already had an AR. I sent my stripped lower off to have it engraved with my name\address etc, which was a pain in the ass (Capital Armory does a good job with this). I filled out the forms, included a check for $200, and attached photos that I took myself on my cell phone and picked up at Walgreens - I've heard people say they need to be passport photos but mine were literally selfies I took in my hallway against a plain background.

The biggest pain in the ass was going to the county jail to get fingerprinted. It was free IIRC but it was a pain in the ass and a depressing experience. Keep in mind that I am an edge case: Where I live there is no local police department. If I had lived 10 miles in either direction, I could have just popped down to my local cop shop and asked them to do it.

I sent it in 9/3/17, the check was cashed by the ATF 9/14/17, and my stamp arrived 4/17/18 - so about 6 months total. About 3 weeks were added to that process because I forgot to sign a form in one place and they had to mail it back to me (oops), but the application didn't go back to the front of the line, which is nice.

--

For the suppressor, I went a different way: I bought the suppressor and "bought my stamp" for $200 from SilencerShop - they handle the paperwork for you and then transfer the stamp. After the purchase, I went to Walker, Iowa and used a kiosk they have. The kiosk thing takes your photo, takes the fingerprints, and uploads them to Silencershop.

The process was smoother, although Walker is about 90 minutes away. One perk is that the actual suppressor came in almost immediately, and the dude let me shoot it while I waited for the stamp to clear. I bought the suppressor 9/21/17, got the stamp and the suppressor 5/2/18. So about 8 months, but no hiccups this time.

--

Was it worth it? Honestly, hard to say. I also own two AR pistols and there is not any significant difference between the AR pistols and the SBR (which is 300BLK) in terms of handling. It is kind of neat being able to put a VFG on the SBR, which you cannot do on the pistol. I have really short arms, so I do like the VFG since it gives me a good repeatable place to put my left hand - I can't do the magwell hold, it doesn't feel right for me.

But all in all, it's not a huge difference between having an actual SBR and having a decent brace. I bought a Scorpion EVO S2 Micro with a brace and it could be SBRd but after shooting it... I don't really feel any inclination. It shoots and handles great.



I desperately need to replace the optics on the 5.56 striped pistol with an eotech or something. It's funny, when it came to the building the rifle - nickel boron BCG, excellent Ballistic Advantage barrel, Geiselle SSA-E, spare no expense. Then when it comes to optics, "can the treasury bear such expense?" I have no idea why I am like this.

Ouze covered everything pretty well (and those blasters are *purdy*). The worst part is the wait and getting fingerprinted.

I'm fortunate enough to have an engraving place about mile down the road from me so that made that part super easy. I haven't filed NFA paperwork in a little over a year, but last couple times I did, wait times for E-file Form 1's (making) were under a month (I got one of mine back in like two weeks), but I'm not sure if that's different now. Paper forms of all types are more 6-8 months, and there is no E-File option for a Form 4 (transfer).

So like what happens if you move and you have NFA items? You gotta get them reengraved with your new address and send them a change of address?

 Grey Templar wrote:
So like what happens if you move and you have NFA items? You gotta get them reengraved with your new address and send them a change of address?

Nah, nothing like that. Essentially if you take a gun that's not an NFA item, and "make" it one on a Form 1, you are "re-manufacturing" it, legally speaking, and thus as you are now the manufacturer, you are obligated to put your name (or business name)/city/state on it (though you don't need an exact street address or the like) just as the original manufacturer had to. Kind of a silly requirement, an artifact of looooooooooong obsolete legislation that I don't think was ever really intended to function that way but nobody decided to clean up laws.

There is paperwork however. If you move within a state, you're technically not obligated to do anything. If you want to take the NFA item outside your state of residence for any reason however, be it permanent or temporary (like for a competition, or to use a range across state lines), you have to file a form 5320.20 with the ATF for permission, telling them when/where/how long, and receive their approval *prior* to taking the NFA item out of state, and this usually takes 2-4 weeks. IIRC you can move suppressors and AOW's without this requirement applying, but everyone I've talked to about it strongly recommends it anyway.

If you want to be really cheeky, I believe you can file a 5320.20 in December, give the timeline of Jan1-Dec31 for the next year, and list all states where that NFA item may be legal, and then not worry about it until the next year and just repeat that every year if you travel a lot with such items, but I've never tried that myself.

 Ouze wrote:
I have SBR'd an AR, and also done a suppressor. Vaktathi, IIRC, has done a lot more than that. The process is fundamentally the same but I went about it differently each time.

For the SBR, I already had an AR. I sent my stripped lower off to have it engraved with my name\address etc, which was a pain in the ass (Capital Armory does a good job with this). I filled out the forms, included a check for $200, and attached photos that I took myself on my cell phone and picked up at Walgreens - I've heard people say they need to be passport photos but mine were literally selfies I took in my hallway against a plain background.

The biggest pain in the ass was going to the county jail to get fingerprinted. It was free IIRC but it was a pain in the ass and a depressing experience. Keep in mind that I am an edge case: Where I live there is no local police department. If I had lived 10 miles in either direction, I could have just popped down to my local cop shop and asked them to do it.

I sent it in 9/3/17, the check was cashed by the ATF 9/14/17, and my stamp arrived 4/17/18 - so about 6 months total. About 3 weeks were added to that process because I forgot to sign a form in one place and they had to mail it back to me (oops), but the application didn't go back to the front of the line, which is nice.

--

For the suppressor, I went a different way: I bought the suppressor and "bought my stamp" for $200 from SilencerShop - they handle the paperwork for you and then transfer the stamp. After the purchase, I went to Walker, Iowa and used a kiosk they have. The kiosk thing takes your photo, takes the fingerprints, and uploads them to Silencershop.

The process was smoother, although Walker is about 90 minutes away. One perk is that the actual suppressor came in almost immediately, and the dude let me shoot it while I waited for the stamp to clear. I bought the suppressor 9/21/17, got the stamp and the suppressor 5/2/18. So about 8 months, but no hiccups this time.

--

Was it worth it? Honestly, hard to say. I also own two AR pistols and there is not any significant difference between the AR pistols and the SBR (which is 300BLK) in terms of handling. It is kind of neat being able to put a VFG on the SBR, which you cannot do on the pistol. I have really short arms, so I do like the VFG since it gives me a good repeatable place to put my left hand - I can't do the magwell hold, it doesn't feel right for me.

But all in all, it's not a huge difference between having an actual SBR and having a decent brace. I bought a Scorpion EVO S2 Micro with a brace and it could be SBRd but after shooting it... I don't really feel any inclination. It shoots and handles great.

Spoiler:

I desperately need to replace the optics on the 5.56 striped pistol with an eotech or something. It's funny, when it came to the building the rifle - nickel boron BCG, excellent Ballistic Advantage barrel, Geiselle SSA-E, spare no expense. Then when it comes to optics, "can the treasury bear such expense?" I have no idea why I am like this.

After thinking about it, the Stribog is "only" a 9mm. If it was a more substantial round there would likely be more of a difference between a real stock and a "pistol brace" used as a stock. Also, the mag well is contoured and textured to be used as a grip, so if I put an angled foregrip on it too I'd likely be sitting pretty. Not perfectly what I was envisioning, but I don't know if I want to pump hundreds of dollars into a $700 gun.

If it helps any, the A3 is expected to be a couple hundred bucks more than the direct blowback versions

That said, my Scorpion was $800, and over time I probably spent another $800 on mags, optic, carry case, SBR tax, VFG, and 922r parts and Stock kit, and I have zero regrets, though part of that was also specifically because I wanted a semi-auto clone of the original SMG specifically for cool factor/looks. You can also just grab a Stribog pistol and convert it over time, wouldn't have to spiffy it all up right away, but there is a fair point to be made that it'd probably be pretty functional as is.

Living in Germany my only Home-Defense are unfortunately my two fists and everything commonly found in a Household. But I am fine with that, at least the guys entering will rarely cary guns themselves so it is Kind of fair

Liste wrote:
Living in Germany my only Home-Defense are unfortunately my two fists and everything commonly found in a Household. But I am fine with that, at least the guys entering will rarely cary guns themselves so it is Kind of fair

I kinda feel sorry for anybody who is forced to "play fair" when it comes to defending themselves. It shouldn't be fair. The homeowner should always have overwhelming firepower to defend themselves.


Anyway. Finally got all the stuff to load some .458 SOCOM.

Round on the left is a 300grain TTSX copper hollow point with a ballistic tip. The round on the right is a 325grain Xtreme Defense solid copper projectile. 7.62 and 5.56 show for comparison. Hopefully the range will open back up soon so I can do some test shooting.

Those are some impressive pills, that 325 grain especially. How expensive is that ammo?

 Vaktathi wrote:
If you want to be really cheeky, I believe you can file a 5320.20 in December, give the timeline of Jan1-Dec31 for the next year, and list all states where that NFA item may be legal, and then not worry about it until the next year and just repeat that every year if you travel a lot with such items, but I've never tried that myself.

"Hello sir, I'd like to inform ATF that at some point within the year of 2021, I may be moving a NFA restricted item somewhere within the continental United States."

This is the epitome of modern problems, modern solutions XD

In the 'Firearms you own and their uses': I used my Judge to cap a copperhead this morning. Damned thing was about 5 feet out the door we use. I almost stepped on it before I saw it. Kept an eye on it while wife went back in and got the Judge for me.

Not gonna risk a bite to one of the dogs or one of the family. If it had been out b the pond or in the woods he could've stayed around. In the fenced in area, anything poisonous has to go.

Nice choices Grey Templar. I carry the Xtreme Penetrators and Defenders from Underwood Ammo in my Glock 29. You should be able to get some excellent results from hand loads in that SOCOM. Can't wait to hear about your results.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Those are some impressive pills, that 325 grain especially. How expensive is that ammo?

Those ones are $1.09 per bullet. The TTSX are $1.02 each, so only slightly cheaper.

I did get the more expensive options. There are choices as low as $.60 per bullet, but most of them are lead and I need lead free for hunting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Nice choices Grey Templar. I carry the Xtreme Penetrators and Defenders from Underwood Ammo in my Glock 29. You should be able to get some excellent results from hand loads in that SOCOM. Can't wait to hear about your results.

I have some handloaded Xtreme penetrators for my .40 too. Hoping to get a chronograph as well before I go out and do some testing.

With meat prices set to skyrocket in the US it is expected that hunting and fishing licenses will skyrocket, as it is a cheap way to put meat on the table. I've thought about this myself. My kids love to fish, and want me to take them much more often. I'm usually catch and release, but getting a dinner's worth of fish per week would be worth it. As for the hunting part, I'm a bit torn. Nothing really of worth is in season at the moment, and I'm not going to poach. I also don't think my wife would be amused if I brought home a racoon for dinner. Until deer or pheasant season opens I think the only real game out there is rabbit. 22LR should be fine for that, but I'd also like an excuse to try to hunt with a 9mm or .40S&W carbine, just for the giggles.

Hogs are always in season. Most states don’t have limits and some don’t even require a hunting liscence.