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Frazzled wrote: Run about 600 rounds through it and the trigger will smooth out big time.
Note: full size mags also work very well with an M&Pc. They also have grip pads that slip on and replicate the full size grip of an M&P when you use it.
If I were carrying I'd note I have the mag with the pinkie extension loaded, with a full size spare with the grip pad.
When the credit card resets later this month I may be looking at getting some more mags. If you were carrying it concealed would the longer mags make it more difficult?
Frazzled wrote: Run about 600 rounds through it and the trigger will smooth out big time.
Note: full size mags also work very well with an M&Pc. They also have grip pads that slip on and replicate the full size grip of an M&P when you use it.
If I were carrying I'd note I have the mag with the pinkie extension loaded, with a full size spare with the grip pad.
When the credit card resets later this month I may be looking at getting some more mags. If you were carrying it concealed would the longer mags make it more difficult?
For both my M&P 45c and Shield I use flush mags in the gun holstered at 3 o'clock, and larger capacity mags in a mag carrier at about 8 o'clock.
Even with pinkie extensions the concealability usually isn't a problem, especially with a quality holster that tucks the gun in tight to your body. Heck, even with the flush mag, my 45c is still probably longer than a 9c with extension and I have no concealment issues for most of the year. Summer is a bit tricky so that's when I switch to the Shield or LCR.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/12 15:03:23
CptJake wrote: zeroed a red dot sight for our Colt Rimfire/Walther .22LR M4 Ops this past weekend and my 13 year old daughter blasted through 120 rounds. Got one of these:
I got a much smaller pistol target sort of like that. I hated it, if you hit it with a .45 ACP it would fall over reliably by the second shot, if that. It had these stakes that not matter how deeply you set them, 100% of the way in, would always just pop out again, at the minimum distance, with handgun ammo it was rated for (and indeed, the rounds just chipped the paint).
Finally I decided to see how it did against rifle rounds, which it was absolutely not rated for. It went exactly as I expected it would.
Spoiler:
Regular .223 would leave some pretty nice gouges, but XM855 went through it like it wasn't there. Ironically it stood up for all that abuse.
Frazzled wrote: Run about 600 rounds through it and the trigger will smooth out big time.
Note: full size mags also work very well with an M&Pc. They also have grip pads that slip on and replicate the full size grip of an M&P when you use it. If I were carrying I'd note I have the mag with the pinkie extension loaded, with a full size spare with the grip pad.
When the credit card resets later this month I may be looking at getting some more mags. If you were carrying it concealed would the longer mags make it more difficult?
A longer mag in pistol is slightly more difficult to conceal depending on the type of garment. If you are wearing a jacket or loose top shirt than there is no significant difference. I would personally have a full size mag as a spare mag. It helps balance the weight and not difficult to conceal.
So an M&Pc really has three mag options: 1. the flush mag-most concealable. neanderthals like me can't use well due to hand size. 2. mag with pinkie extension. Good for single hand shooting and free style. 3. full size mag with or without collar. Ok there is a 4th actually: 4) USPSA style full size mag with 10 round extension. I've been thinking about a Kel-Tec 2000 with two of these in a computer bag as a trunk gun. Supposedly they are coming out with an M&P compatible one this quarter.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/12 15:24:40
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
CptJake wrote: zeroed a red dot sight for our Colt Rimfire/Walther .22LR M4 Ops this past weekend and my 13 year old daughter blasted through 120 rounds. Got one of these:
I got a much smaller pistol target sort of like that. I hated it, if you hit it with a .45 ACP it would fall over reliably by the second shot, if that. It had these stakes that not matter how deeply you set them, 100% of the way in, would always just pop out again, at the minimum distance, with handgun ammo it was rated for (and indeed, the rounds just chipped the paint).
Finally I decided to see how it did against rifle rounds, which it was absolutely not rated for. It went exactly as I expected it would.
Spoiler:
Regular .223 would leave some pretty nice gouges, but XM855 went through it like it wasn't there. Ironically it stood up for all that abuse.
Nostromodamus wrote: For both my M&P 45c and Shield I use flush mags in the gun holstered at 3 o'clock, and larger capacity mags in a mag carrier at about 8 o'clock.
Even with pinkie extensions the concealability usually isn't a problem, especially with a quality holster that tucks the gun in tight to your body. Heck, even with the flush mag, my 45c is still probably longer than a 9c with extension and I have no concealment issues for most of the year. Summer is a bit tricky so that's when I switch to the Shield or LCR.
My thinking so far is IWB at 4-4:30, and magazine dependent on clothing
Frazzled wrote: A longer mag in pistol is slightly more difficult to conceal depending on the type of garment. If you are wearing a jacket or loose top shirt than there is no significant difference.
I would personally have a full size mag as a spare mag. It helps balance the weight and not difficult to conceal.
So an M&Pc really has three mag options:
1. the flush mag-most concealable. neanderthals like me can't use well due to hand size.
2. mag with pinkie extension. Good for single hand shooting and free style.
3. full size mag with or without collar.
Ok there is a 4th actually:
4) USPSA style full size mag with 10 round extension. I've been thinking about a Kel-Tec 2000 with two of these in a computer bag as a trunk gun. Supposedly they are coming out with an M&P compatible one this quarter.
I was thinking about the posability of a full size M&P mag as a spare. Otherwise if I was to compromise and use that mag when carrying concealed I may as well be carrying a full size
As far as the Kel-Tec I think they are becoming harder to find, and I hear a lot of complaints about the ergonomics (and the process to strip and clean them)
I will probably get some sort of magnified optic for it at some point, but need to do some more research. I'm *really* liking $3 magazines.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Yeah, it's a PTR91 GI-R, a US built G3 clone with a pic-rail welded on Almost the same thing as a CETME.
I didnt realize just how much of a beast the charging handle was to operate
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
A question for American dakka members: have any of you guys ever owned guns made by Cobray?
I watch the forgotten weapons channel on youtube ( being into historical wargames I'm curious to see how these old guns work) and while I was scrolling through the old videos, I came across some of these horrors!
Bloody hell! These are awful guns. I'm no expert but even I couldn't believe how impractical they were.
I hope none of my fellow dakka members ever owned one or thought about owing one!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
That said, Cobray guns are pretty rare just because of how awful they were. I've seen a real Ladies Home Companion, but never shot any of them, much less owned any.
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, it's a PTR91 GI-R, a US built G3 clone with a pic-rail welded on Almost the same thing as a CETME.
I didnt realize just how much of a beast the charging handle was to operate
Yeah, on my HK it is tough too.
yeah...who did they think was gonna use these...Thor? Just chambering a round is a workout
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
That said, Cobray guns are pretty rare just because of how awful they were. I've seen a real Ladies Home Companion, but never shot any of them, much less owned any.
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, it's a PTR91 GI-R, a US built G3 clone with a pic-rail welded on Almost the same thing as a CETME.
I didnt realize just how much of a beast the charging handle was to operate
Yeah, on my HK it is tough too.
yeah...who did they think was gonna use these...Thor? Just chambering a round is a workout
I'm not a gun owner, nor do I have an interest in owning one, but if you're into military history or wargaming, it's interesting to see how these things functioned in real life, so channels like this are a good educational tool.
In saying that though, it makes my blood boil that I have to rely on damn Yankees to see how historical British guns worked
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Yeah, Ian at Forgotten Weapons is great and does a wonderful job of covering stuff from all over the world. He mentioned hopefully getting to go the the Pattern Room in the UK to do some videos there eventually, and IIRC they started doing videos themselves very recently.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Well I'm a dual citizen, American/British, and have a small Lee Enfield collection along with a Webley, so hopefully that's a small victory in keeping Brit guns in Brit hands
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, Ian at Forgotten Weapons is great and does a wonderful job of covering stuff from all over the world. He mentioned hopefully getting to go the the Pattern Room in the UK to do some videos there eventually, and IIRC they started doing videos themselves very recently.
Yeah, Ian is a good presenter, and it is a good channel to watch (hickok45 is another of my favourites) but Ian does tend to obsess over Japanese firearms too much for my liking!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nostromodamus wrote: Well I'm a dual citizen, American/British, and have a small Lee Enfield collection along with a Webley, so hopefully that's a small victory in keeping Brit guns in Brit hands
A man cannot serve two masters. Queen and country, or God Bless America. You can't be both...otherwise you end up Canadian
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/05 15:44:49
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Nostromodamus wrote: Well I'm a dual citizen, American/British, and have a small Lee Enfield collection along with a Webley, so hopefully that's a small victory in keeping Brit guns in Brit hands
A man cannot serve two masters. Queen and country, or God Bless America. You can't be both...otherwise you end up Canadian
Incorrect. US respects the decision of the home country, and UK allows dual citizenship.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/05 16:01:21
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, Ian at Forgotten Weapons is great and does a wonderful job of covering stuff from all over the world. He mentioned hopefully getting to go the the Pattern Room in the UK to do some videos there eventually, and IIRC they started doing videos themselves very recently.
Yeah, Ian is a good presenter, and it is a good channel to watch (hickok45 is another of my favourites) but Ian does tend to obsess over Japanese firearms too much for my liking!
To be fair, Japanese guns can be pretty interesting. Ian's father was also something of a well known expert on the subject (and appeared on TV programs like "Tales of the Gun") so its not surprising he does a lot of those.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, Ian at Forgotten Weapons is great and does a wonderful job of covering stuff from all over the world. He mentioned hopefully getting to go the the Pattern Room in the UK to do some videos there eventually, and IIRC they started doing videos themselves very recently.
I think that's where I saw my first blow-forward pistol.
There is some really weird gak on there.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Yeah, Ian does a great job of finding really "wtf"firearms.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, it's a PTR91 GI-R, a US built G3 clone with a pic-rail welded on Almost the same thing as a CETME.
I didnt realize just how much of a beast the charging handle was to operate
Flawless Victory!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: A question for American dakka members: have any of you guys ever owned guns made by Cobray?
I watch the forgotten weapons channel on youtube ( being into historical wargames I'm curious to see how these old guns work) and while I was scrolling through the old videos, I came across some of these horrors!
Bloody hell! These are awful guns. I'm no expert but even I couldn't believe how impractical they were.
I hope none of my fellow dakka members ever owned one or thought about owing one!
I have nothing to comment on other than I love Forgotten Weapons. Love love love that channel, Ian is awesome
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: A question for American dakka members: have any of you guys ever owned guns made by Cobray?
I watch the forgotten weapons channel on youtube ( being into historical wargames I'm curious to see how these old guns work) and while I was scrolling through the old videos, I came across some of these horrors!
Bloody hell! These are awful guns. I'm no expert but even I couldn't believe how impractical they were.
I hope none of my fellow dakka members ever owned one or thought about owing one!
Yes, I have.
I've owned a S-11 semi-auto pistol (semi-auto pistol version of the M-11 SMG),and a taxed and registered M-11 SMG. The S-11, like Uzi pistol, was only reliable with FMJ ammo and factory magazines (which was costly back during the dark decade of Komrade Klinton's "crime bill" bans). Aftermarket mags were hit or miss. It was a fun range gun, but I ended up trading it (and all of it's accessories) for a HK P7M8.
The M-11 had a rubber piece in the bolt that would wear out quick due to the weapon's high rate of fire, but it wasn't an issue exclusive to the Cobray clones. The original Ingrams also had that issue. And at the time, replacements were hard to come by. While a good starter into Class 3 firearms back in the day (when you could get M-11s, Ingrams, and STEN Mk. IIs for under $2000 dollars), it's just that: a fun starter piece. Needless to say, I do not own it anymore. And that's all I prefer to say about my past (and/or possible current) NFA ownership over the internet.
As for the weapons you posted, I'm familiar with them. The first is just a knock-off of the Armscor Street Sweeper shotgun. I wasn't impressed with the one I tested out. It was less reliable than the Armscor (which had it's own issues with the design to begin with).
The Terminator was even worse in my opinion. It was a piece of gak.
I'd note I have the mag with the pinkie extension loaded, with a full size spare with the grip pad. 
