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What do you mean Fraz? Hunted my whole life but we are new to pistols

There have been two "Obama bullet" cycles at the time of each election. The third is coming. Anything semi-automatic will be non-existent for awhile, with ammo scarce.

 ChainswordHeretic wrote:
Bought the wife a Springfield XDS 9MM over the weekend and she loves it. I am thinking about getting the XD MOD. 2 in .40 for myself. Has anyone here ever shot one? The XDS has very minimal kick and it shoots extremely straight with the 4" barrel. I was just wondering if the MOD. 2 was a similar experience.

Be prepared for a very unexpected snap and recoil vs. the 9mm with very little gain. I sold my CZ 2075 Rami in .40 because the felt recoil versus the gain in power was not worth it. In my opinion, you are better off with a 9mm, for cheaper and more ammo options for defensive carry and plinking.

I honestly prefer the .40 round over the 9mm in both pistols and pistol caliber rifles. I'm a big guy though (6'5" tall, 300 pounds) so the recoil isn't an issue for me. I have a rifle chambered in 10mm that I like to use for hunting raccoon (sometimes coyote) and when I shoot it for fun I can just use .40 S&W.

In pistol form it does take a little getting used to. Much louder pop.

Recoil is such that a person with a 9mm usually has a significantly faster recovery time and faster time putting more shots down range. Do a Bill Drill and you'll see a noticeable difference. Often guys with .45ACP have faster times.

BUT if you enjoy the .40 go for it baby. I can put three to four 9mms downrange for every .44 mag hollowpoint, but man that blast is satisfying. When the old model 29 goes off...BOOM.

 Frazzled wrote:
If you're getting a double column, get it now before the next bullet bubble. Thats going to happen in about two weeks.

Bullet bubble has already hit in my AO. We got in about 5 cases of 556 (1000) in Wolf Gold and 5 of PMC last Tuesday. We were down to 2 of PMC and zip in Wolf Gold as of last night. Same with PMAGS. Ripped through 2 cases of Gen 2 in three weeks, just got in another case of Gen 3s. ARs and parts are going brisk, fudd guns are steady (hunting season is upon us). Im trying to get a pistol build finished before the fit hits the shan.

Picked this (and several magazines, cleaning kit, and 500 rounds of 7.62 NATO) up this week:





Got a really good deal on it.

Now, if Hurricane Matty doesn't dump too much water on my range I want to get it zeroed...

 Frazzled wrote:
Recoil is such that a person with a 9mm usually has a significantly faster recovery time and faster time putting more shots down range. Do a Bill Drill and you'll see a noticeable difference. Often guys with .45ACP have faster times.

BUT if you enjoy the .40 go for it baby. I can put three to four 9mms downrange for every .44 mag hollowpoint, but man that blast is satisfying. When the old model 29 goes off...BOOM.

I'll see if I can find it, but I read an interesting FBI report from about 8 years ago. They did research and correlated data on bullet caliber vs. average number of shots to kill an assailant and the percent chance of killing the perp with the first shot. This included all calibers still used by law enforcement agencies in the US. As some local agencies still allow their officers to use personal firearms on the job they included those as well.

The basic results were pretty interesting. .40 required fewer rounds per kill, and also was more likely to kill on the first shot than 9mm. What I found most odd was that .357 magnum also ranked better in both categories than 9mm. I would assume this was a statistical outlier though, as how many places would have officers with revolvers?

FBI has now gone back to 9mm. Thinking one pistol round will stop an opponent is misplaced.

CptJake...I dont recognize that rifle for whatever reason, what is it? It looks fun

As to the caliber thing, if I remember the report in question, the differences between 40, 45, and 9mm were all largely within the margin of error of each other, and no trauma surgeon on earth could look at a bullet wound and tell you which caliber it was caused by out of the 3. The .40 was something of an answer to an incorrect question (to which the real answer was... dont get into pitched gun battles with a handgun when your opponent has a rifle).

 Vaktathi wrote:
CptJake...I dont recognize that rifle for whatever reason, what is it? It looks fun

Springfield M1A SOCOM CQB (with the Vortex Venom option).

I put on the sling (Rifles Only carbine sling).

http://www.springfield-armory.com/products/m1a-socom-16-cqb/

Ah ok, couldnt quite place it, but now it all makes sense, was almost thinking a Ruger mini14 tactical but not in .308

I have been wanting another 7.62 NATO gun, but didn't want an AR-10 type. This was different enough from the AR platform, and different enough from my HK91 to scratch that itch.

Good call

I've been eye balling that same gun. I'm interested in your thoughts on it after you can exercise it a little.

I'll be glad to give a report, but with the rain/flooding last week and what we're expected to get from Hurricane Matty it may be a week or two.

I did talk to a buddy today who has the solid stock M1A SOCOM and loves it. When he bought it the CQB version was not out. He said he sold his AR type rifle (in 5.56) after shooting the SOCOM a few times because, in his opinion, the SOCOM is a lot more fun to shoot.

I'm expecting it to be pretty loud and am interested in the recoil. My HK kicks like a beast, allegedly the muzzle break on this one works decently. We'll see. I'm glad I have a 100 yard lane to zero it on as that is the recommended distance. I'm half tempted to just use a chunk of my 'driveway' until my dedicated range area dries out enough. I have the distance, and it slopes uphill towards one of our gates, but I would be shooting into the dirt road and I assume this will tear it up. Hate to have to blade it just because I couldn't wait...

FRAZZ & CUDDA I read the same reports about the .40 and bottom line the pistols myself and my wife are getting are for fun, and doing some target shooting. I test fired a three .inch ,40 yesterday, and at 6'2" 255, recovery time and accuracy were not much different but boy was it fun to shoot! Springfield MOD.2 .40 service with 4" barrel on order to be picked up this week! Can't wait to get back to the range. CC permit might be in the future with more practice but right now we are just having a blast putting holes in paper !

Anvildude wrote:
So you guys might know where to go for this. My buddy, the one who has the guns, has no artistic flair. But, making guns is a hobby of his, and he wants me to eventually do some stock carving for him. Any tips, tricks, websites I should know about?

The woodworking's simple enough (art student, focusing in 3D and sculpture stuff), but I don't know the 2nd thing about firearm ergonomics.

I am sending you my work email, you are going to be opening a big can of worms depending on the pattern you are doing. I can help guide you through some of it, and give you a list of tools based off what it is you are hoping to accomplish. Also, we can talk about where and how deep you should be cutting.

Thankee kindly. There's no immediate plans, but it'll be nice to have you as a resource when we get down to the nitty gritty.

 ChainswordHeretic wrote:
FRAZZ & CUDDA I read the same reports about the .40 and bottom line the pistols myself and my wife are getting are for fun, and doing some target shooting. I test fired a three .inch ,40 yesterday, and at 6'2" 255, recovery time and accuracy were not much different but boy was it fun to shoot! Springfield MOD.2 .40 service with 4" barrel on order to be picked up this week! Can't wait to get back to the range. CC permit might be in the future with more practice but right now we are just having a blast putting holes in paper !

good dealio

The two guns I use for concealed carry are a Springfield DXM .40, and a Taurus 709 slim in 9mm. I use the Taurus in the summer (as it is small and can fit in my jean-shorts pocket) and the XDM in the winter under my left armpit in my winter coat's pocket.

Honestly, the Taurus us harder for me to control than the Springfield. Probably the lighter weight, shorter barrel, and narrower grip. I'd swear it's louder too though.

 Frazzled wrote:
FBI has now gone back to 9mm. Thinking one pistol round will stop an opponent is misplaced.

This. The big takeaway from the LA trauma surgeon's presentation - which I'm not digging up now but will upon request - is that caliber functionally doesn't matter.

The number one predictor of killing an assailant with a handgun is shot placement.

The number two predictor is number of rounds placed on target.

The idea that there is a "best" round for self defense is a fools errand, the idea there is a guaranteed one-shot-drop. The best self defense round is the one you like the most which means you will actually carry it and have it on you if needed, and it also means you will practice with it, getting proficient. I'd rather have a .32 that I've shot thousands of rounds with and know it like a part of my own body than some giant magnum round I have shot maybe a dozen times because it hurts my hand and is too bulky to carry.

I personally carry a Taurus 9mm subcompact with 12 rounds of Speer Gold Dot +P JHP's, unless it is the winter, in which case I carry my 1911 with Federal JHP's.

Well, I'm fairly certain a 1" bore blunderbuss would be a relatively guaranteed one-shot-drop.

Anvildude wrote:
Well, I'm fairly certain a 1" bore blunderbuss would be a relatively guaranteed one-shot-drop.

Lol, would that still be a pistol? It would be really interesting to see what one of those old handgonnes did to modern body armor though. A good breastplate could turn the shot at most ranges- would kevlar buckle, or weather the blast?

Thank you for this. Now I'm watching people shoot crossbows and bows at body armor on youtube.

 Gitzbitah wrote:

Anvildude wrote:
Well, I'm fairly certain a 1" bore blunderbuss would be a relatively guaranteed one-shot-drop.

Lol, would that still be a pistol?

Legally, blackpowder guns aren't even considered "firearms" in the US.

You can carry a concealed cap & ball revolver without a permit and own as many cannons as you want.

Of course, IANAL and all that...

I know that Bass pro Shops here in Iowa used to have black powder handguns in plastic clam packs hanging on shelves (not even behind the counter). At first I thought they were CO2 pellet guns, but nope, black powder.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Gitzbitah wrote:

Anvildude wrote:
Well, I'm fairly certain a 1" bore blunderbuss would be a relatively guaranteed one-shot-drop.

Lol, would that still be a pistol?

Legally, blackpowder guns aren't even considered "firearms" in the US.

You can carry a concealed cap & ball revolver without a permit and own as many cannons as you want.

Of course, IANAL and all that...

Wait, what? How/when did that legislation go through?


Also- part of the reason a good breastplate could turn a ball was just that- it 'turned' it, deflecting it due to the angle of incident. I feel like, with the modern focus on absorbing impact rather than deflecting it, wad'n'ball weaponry might do more damage overall- lots less penetration, of course, but a chest shot would probably shatter all your ribs and possibly compress your internals enough to screw things up royally.

Been like that for at least as long as I've been in the States. Blackpowder and anything made before 1898 aren't considered firearms. Thats why you don't need to fill out a 4473 when buying them.

I don't think that a Black powder firearm would do crap against most ballistic vests. A .44 black powder firearm would have about as much kinetic energy as a 38 Special +p round, and a .50 BP round would be about like a .357 mag.

The difference is that the energy would be spread across a much larger surface area of a bullet, thus making the shot easier to absorb, which is what the vest is supposed to do anyway.

If you have a level 3 or below vest it would likely get penetrated by a .357 in a close range. It would likely stop the BP round though. If you had a level 4 vest it would stop either round. If the round is stopped (either of them) it's not going to feel good, but it wouldn't "shatter your ribs". Assuming the shot didn't penetrate there is effectively no difference between a cap and ball round and the .357. I've known someone that got shot in the vest (no penetration) and he said it felt like someone punched him REALLY hard in the gut.

Picked up my Springfield MOD 2 Service .40 yesterday and immediately put 100 rounds through it! It's pulling me a little high and to the left but some grip adjustment and stabilizing my stance should straighten that out. Thanks again for the advice guys!