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I like the mat that comes with dread fleet... I wish more games came with something similar. I'm not sure why a cloth Blood Bowl field wouldn't work.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Don't expect anything with a card heavy content as they decided after space hulk to avoid doing anything with gaming tiles that had to be manufactured out of house as they thought that it cut too far into their margins. Hence the crappy scarf with dread fleet that cost about 3p each to make in a far eastern sweatshop. For me this would rule out quest and bloodbowl though gothic could be restarted with another crappy scarf for a space field. I wouldn't be surprised either if they just gave up on the idea.

The costs would come down if they had not been so timid and made more copies and made a mass release. Instead they severely restricted availability and cranked the price up. Space Hulk was appallingly badly handled as a release from what I recall. They didn't announce it at Gamesday, their own tradeshow, but kept it quiet and put out an announcement shortly after. They didn't advertise it outside their own magazine, they didn't make enough copies, in spite of their efforts to make as few people know about it as possible it still flew off the shelves and lots of people were left unable to get a copy and now they change hands on eBay for £150.

As a complete release, Space Hulk could be sold in all sorts of mainstream places GW doesn't normally make sales. I think GW have this idea that everyone can be made to buy one of their main three games and that they can be sold a huge army, and that other releases like Space Hulk just get in the way and lose them money. The boardgame market doesn't get in the way of their wargames, it's a different lucrative market.

Maybe that's their problem. The boardgames market is a lucrative one... for well designed games. My impression is that GW can't make good games any more, they just rehash their main three. Space Hulk was a safe re-release of a classic, Dreadfleet was so way off the mark for a new publication you really have to wonder if they've got the knack. Even now we're hoping for a re-release of Warhammer Quest or similar, there's no confidence that GW know how to make a good game.

That's why other parts of the franchise are best in the hands of people like FFG who know what they are doing. GW's most creative work probably comes from Forgeworld, who they treat like a bastard son. They make the product difficult to get even through their own shops and they've only just relented to allow them to do Horus Heresy stuff, previously deciding that no one should be allowed to touch that goldmine.

Costs would indeed come down if it became a mainline product, however GW does not want to have any game systems outside of their big three as they feel it's stops people buying into systems where the financial commitment to plays much higher. The trouble is this attitude has allowed other skirmish games to really blossom in that vacuum. Two of the biggest beneficiaries I can see have been infinity and malifaux. GW forgot that while some people would only play specialists games many other bought them as an addition to their regular gaming habits as a bit of a change up to stop their gaming experience becoming stale. I think part of GWs problems at the moment is that it's become a bit stale whilst asking for more money for the same experience, the aura around GW releases is definitely more one of jaded indifference than excitement.

Dreadfleet mat might have been cheap in production, but it is hands down the best mat for (not too large) naval games like Dystopian Wars, and I bought Dreadfleet just for the mat basically.

Space Hulk could have come with a mat for a map and worked very well.

privateer4hire wrote:
Space Hulk could have come with a mat for a map and worked very well.

I doubt that, a key feature of the game using tiles is that the map can have many different layouts. It's something which also makes Advanced Heroquest and Warhammer Quest more appealing than regular Heroquest.

Seems to me, as a relatively sensible person who isnt a GW accountant, that releasing some kind of specialist game with potential crossover into 'core' games would be the best thing to do.

Warhammer Quest would be the perfect sort of example there - heroes, monsters... these could easily be used in WHFB, or bring your WHFB stuff into Quest. Have a bunch of basic monsters in the box, but like with the Roleplaying supplement in the first game, include adventures and stat tables requiring monsters from WHFB - potentially increasing sales and interest in WHFB. A WHFB player would be more inclined to buy WHQ, and a WHQ buyer would be more inclined to start WHFB.
Isn't that how it happened last time?


Instead, I'm expecting something with pauldrons in it. Because Space Marines. Obviously.

Space Marines playing football. Thats what I expect. Kill that Dreadball game dead in its tracks because SPACE MARINES WITH A FOOTBALL.

Sigh.

Spaceballs , you reckon then....nah

I was thinking that the only sort of game GW has never done was a racing game and thought of that weird jet bike games that was in WD round about the time they did a revised list for Dark Eldar. Of course, since Gorkamorka there has been several iterations of Formula Ork.

So what about a 40k racing game, either based around orks and their "kustom jobs" or some form of higher tech Eldar doodad? I think an orky game would have the most appeal.

wilycoyote wrote:

So what about a 40k racing game, either based around orks and their "kustom jobs" or some form of higher tech Eldar doodad? I think an orky game would have the most appeal.

Doesn't seem grimdark enough D:

Give me BFG or give me death.

 Micky wrote:
Seems to me, as a relatively sensible person who isnt a GW accountant, that releasing some kind of specialist game with potential crossover into 'core' games would be the best thing to do.

Warhammer Quest would be the perfect sort of example there - heroes, monsters... these could easily be used in WHFB, or bring your WHFB stuff into Quest. Have a bunch of basic monsters in the box, but like with the Roleplaying supplement in the first game, include adventures and stat tables requiring monsters from WHFB - potentially increasing sales and interest in WHFB. A WHFB player would be more inclined to buy WHQ, and a WHQ buyer would be more inclined to start WHFB.
Isn't that how it happened last time?


Instead, I'm expecting something with pauldrons in it. Because Space Marines. Obviously.

Space Marines playing football. Thats what I expect. Kill that Dreadball game dead in its tracks because SPACE MARINES WITH A FOOTBALL.

Sigh.

WHFB is plumetting in popularity, while Spare Marines remain popular. What would be wrong with GW releasing something based around space marines? Better than some hippie fest where all the races of the universe get together and hold hands and sing in harmony.

I would love to see Bloodbowl. BFG or Necromunda, not too keen on Warhammer quest.
I cannot really see any happening though.

I would have thought Warhammer quest is a shoe in what with the Computer game version (iPad tie in?) already show cased.

I'd prefer WHQ to AHQ, but I suspect I'd be up for getting either.

Of course what I'd really love is a rerelease of Chainsaw Warrior, since I never got to play that originally.

So all this speculation is nice and I'd love to see some of the specialist games rebooted in this manner but since we didn't have a big box release last year I think it's safe to say Dreadfeet tanked so hard it killed any future releases of this kind.

That or they are waiting till the last boxes of Dreadfleet are off the shelves to release the next one

Or they released a box of one of their main systems instead.

Anyway, what would make sense to me is a release of Adeptus Titanicus, or similar, set during the Horus Heresy. Capitalise on the big publicity from Forge World.

Instead of this, you'd be better to just get a game off of EBey, or buy a copy of Decent.

I'm not even holding my breath on it, if there is a way for GW to jack it up, they will of course, find it.

Quest was a classic. If anything, you'll get finecrap minis, and a half hearted attempt, while tey prey on players with nastalga.

too bad, too. the game was pretty fun back in the day, and the figures in the box were a great selection for use with the RPG.

good times... good times..

I still don't understand why the didn't go ahead and call Dreadfleet "Man O' War" to capitalize on the nostalgia of gamers (like me) who started GW in the early '90s. That game was popular around my way, though it seemed like everybody wanted Dark Elf fleets for the Black Ark.

Because "Dreadfleet" is more appealing to "the kids" I guess.

I prefer Kyoto's take on the game - Scary Boat!!!

 Grot 6 wrote:
Quest was a classic. If anything, you'll get finecrap minis, and a half hearted attempt, while tey prey on players with nastalga.

If you're going to be a raving anti-GW loonie, at least try to be a realistic raving anti-GW loonie.

A big box release wouldn't have any FineCost, and a big box release would be stand-alone with everything you need in the box. No expansions or extras or anything like that.

Graphite wrote:
Or they released a box of one of their main systems instead.

Anyway, what would make sense to me is a release of Adeptus Titanicus, or similar, set during the Horus Heresy. Capitalise on the big publicity from Forge World.

I might even stump up the cash for that one!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Because "Dreadfleet" is more appealing to "the kids" I guess.

I prefer Kyoto's take on the game - Scary Boat!!!

 Grot 6 wrote:
Quest was a classic. If anything, you'll get finecrap minis, and a half hearted attempt, while tey prey on players with nastalga.

If you're going to be a raving anti-GW loonie, at least try to be a realistic raving anti-GW loonie.

A big box release wouldn't have any FineCost, and a big box release would be stand-alone with everything you need in the box. No expansions or extras or anything like that.

Sure. Like Space Hulk.

Like I said, It was a classic. Had everything to start out with and ---- shudder---- the game had gear in there for multiple uses and other games. Fantasy RPG, Mordhiem, D and D, had some use with them with a starter set of Fantasy Battles, had and still have some of the figures as attached minions for an older army. ( back, you know- when you could add other stuff then just Vampires, Elves, or Chaos cenetric armies.The hero figures still have a place in the house with a new game I'm playing. Dungeon Delves. Kept me from forking up for generic "Heros".

Like I said, if the current GW gets a chance, they'll jack it up one way or another. ( Thanks for reading through the whole post, next time. )


And the fact that your calling me a loon makes me pee. Thanks for that. Recognition as well, I guess....

 Grot 6 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Because "Dreadfleet" is more appealing to "the kids" I guess.

I prefer Kyoto's take on the game - Scary Boat!!!

 Grot 6 wrote:
Quest was a classic. If anything, you'll get finecrap minis, and a half hearted attempt, while tey prey on players with nastalga.

If you're going to be a raving anti-GW loonie, at least try to be a realistic raving anti-GW loonie.

A big box release wouldn't have any FineCost, and a big box release would be stand-alone with everything you need in the box. No expansions or extras or anything like that.

Sure. Like Space Hulk.

Like I said, It was a classic. Had everything to start out with and ---- shudder---- the game had gear in there for multiple uses and other games. Fantasy RPG, Mordhiem, D and D, had some use with them with a starter set of Fantasy Battles, had and still have some of the figures as attached minions for an older army. ( back, you know- when you could add other stuff then just Vampires, Elves, or Chaos cenetric armies.The hero figures still have a place in the house with a new game I'm playing. Dungeon Delves. Kept me from forking up for generic "Heros".

Like I said, if the current GW gets a chance, they'll jack it up one way or another. ( Thanks for reading through the whole post, next time. )


And the fact that your calling me a loon makes me pee. Thanks for that. Recognition as well, I guess....

What did he say that was incorrect?! Space Hulk WAS stand alone and had no finecast!

As the bloke said, say sensible things, even a noob like me knows that a BBR always uses plastic nowadays because they make so many models in a oner.

Also, slag the mechanics all you like, and slag FC by all means, but GW plastics have always been good, the plastic Terminators in Space Hulk were fething brilliant.

I read your post Grot and it was a bum call I'm afraid.

These box game releases have been crammed to the gunnels with good stuff. Space hulk was well worth the £60 without the cross game application of the minis.

Dreadfleet didn't have the cross system comparability but it was a big old box of stuff and well worth the cost just for the components. True the game itself was hit or miss but tyere was allot of good gear in there.

No cutting corners or finecast.

 Grot 6 wrote:
Sure. Like Space Hulk.

Like I said, It was a classic. Had everything to start out with and ---- shudder---- the game had gear in there for multiple uses and other games. Fantasy RPG, Mordhiem, D and D, had some use with them with a starter set of Fantasy Battles, had and still have some of the figures as attached minions for an older army. ( back, you know- when you could add other stuff then just Vampires, Elves, or Chaos cenetric armies.The hero figures still have a place in the house with a new game I'm playing. Dungeon Delves. Kept me from forking up for generic "Heros".

What?

Be coherent. That's an order.

Bloodbowl

I am so certain of this I would bet my left nut on it, so sorry for anyone who wanted AHQ/WHQ.

I hope it's not BFG, because they'd probably take down the PDFS from the website, and jack up the prices of ships. Which would annoy me, as I'm currently pricing up a 2000pt Tau fleet.

 chaplaingrabthar wrote:
I hope it's not BFG, because they'd probably take down the PDFS from the website, and jack up the prices of ships. Which would annoy me, as I'm currently pricing up a 2000pt Tau fleet.

I would LOVE a BFG re release, but not in a box like this, specialist games don't work in this format because like the main lines there should be tons of models and several factions at least to pick and choose from.
I was excited about dreadfleet when I first saw it, then saw that instead of being able to get a fleet of dark elf ships I was stuck with the random assortment of ships that came in the box.

Space Hulk was a gak release. Great Game, half arsed release.

The lack of information on its entirity, the insanity of the price, the gak support, the five minute or you lose out on it stand that GW pushed out... ( not that you even knew that they were coming out with it beforehand.)
Basicly anything you could think of- "Hey lets take our most famous gateway game and crap all over it because we're so cool now that we're putting out something people actually WANT!"
I'll throw it out there that the game is only good now for ebey fodder. You see alot of people getting into 40K because of thier gaming with the new Space Hulk? Not much anymore. If anything, people are pissed because they all KNOW that the game was ace and GW threw a good chance away to earn some good will... Not that they realize that they need one.

Whats the first thing people are asking about GW's games these days?

"How much can I get for this in resale?" Are they buying it to play? yes, they play it a few times, then Feebey it. They arn't using those games to get into even MORE, or using the stuff available to get more of this or that faction. All they are doing is using past glory of how they USED to be to sell "Special Edition" wannabe stuff.

Seriously? THAT is how you think GW is great? They suck. Suck moves =suck company.

At the end of the day, no one really stays with thier boxed games because they do everything they can to crap all over your experience with it, not open up doors for you. If anything, they open the experience door up a crack, let you peek inside, and say "Yes, get in on a look at how we USED to be a great company."

I didn't even get a chance to get one space hulk game at the time. MY "LGS" was too busy shilling this crap out at over a hundred a pop after the whole.... "Look at the new shiny" phase. Didn't even mention it a month or even a few weeks beforehand. THEN, they act like they knew it was coming out all along, and acted like EVERYONE else knew about it as well. ("Oh, we only got ten copies, want us to save you one?...."
My first go around with this POS, I walked into the shop, they had the games and figures stocked, and there was a guy in the back room PLAYING THE GAME. I walked in, got in on a starter demo, and was hooked. No BS, no gimmicks, no crap. (This was back in the old red and green cidital blister pack days for you youngsters.Red for 40K, Green for Fantasy)

Of course I have my own old second edition/ first edition stuff- BUT... Would it not have been nice to get some of that scenery stuff, maybe add it in with some of the "Space Hallways" that you see that people are doing ten times better then the original. ( Yet another Gakkity gak move by GW. NOW that the horse is out of the barn.) Who wants to do that at over a hundred a pop for a chew toy of a game?

Hell, I still love the game. Not only because of the game at the time ( 2d edition) giving you pretty much a good small army of grunts for a genestealer army, and a few squads of termies to be added to your box of 40K stuff, which in turn ALSO give you a set squad or two of termies to add to the troops, but for the fact that they were exactly linking up with the metal figures. Painted up they worked out perfectly. ( They went back and started with the fifty dollar termie squad after that, but hey... at least you could get a mystery every time you picked up a box. )

FWIW, I picked up armies of Space marines, Nids, some squads of Eldar out of one of the old troop boxes for a scenario we had going, for a few of those GW scenery sets with the cardstock stuff, and two more boxes of Space Hulk AFTER my first purchase of my first Space Hulk Game.(I went back and found the expansions, AFTER that.)

After the fact, I was almost ready to buy a few more boxes of Eldar, to start a small army after that... THEN came the season of hate. I was up and gladly buying. I liked it. It was fun. Had those eldar up to two squads and a farseer. ( BTW, if you want a real fun game? Play Space Hulk with a squad of Tacmarines... then add in a squad or eldar from the other side of the board. (BTW you get the two minute clock running...)
This was cool, because all you had to do was walk in the door, throw in a squad of whatever, have a set up of a 4X6 board, and jump right in. We had no less then three people walk into the store that I was playing at- (Altered States in Syracuse NY) and easily jump right in and started picking up Blister packs right off the wall at that point. The table was set, people were croweded around it, and you could just scrounge up a squad, or a figure, or whatever, and jump right in...

Degressing even more- THIS is what they need to be using the boxed sets for. Not just peeing on my shoe, saying "Oh, look how we used to be... buy the shiny because of it."

Point being here, fellow minions of hate- GW had a good product, now it is just a good memory.

Thats what I was talking about. I put in about finegak later, as an example of how they WILL jack it up. And they will, because they forgot how to have fun.

As to thier plastics, of course they are better, aside from the ridiculous price. Thats probibly why I'm just getting more and more pissed at GW's antics just like this. Lets take a second and ask- What would happen if... GW would have used plastic, instead of half arsed moved decisions made about trying to sell people on a turd? We wouldn't even have finecrap to derise. We would be talking one less P.O.S. move by a bunch of freaks who seem only to care about bottom feeding from the past.

What if they decided to throw in one of those plastic buildings into the base set? What if they threw in a based plastic tree, or a sprue of those ammo boxes, along with that building?
I had a gak load of fun with that card stock stuff, what would happen if they made that SPACE HULK tiles out of plastic?

And for what its worth- I'm the one saying that they HAD a good batch in the boxed games. Thats why there was once a need to buy two to three boxes of each. That stuff was awsome for other games as well. Nevermind the fact that stores actually had a full wall of thier gak to buy to also be used with it. Warhammer Quest was pretty cool. They even had extra stuff in the White Dwarf that you could go and add in your fantasy army gear in with. Not going to even get into the expansions, which in turn even gave you even MORE reasons to buy extra figures, and use in the game. Won't even get into how the figures from Quest are still good to add into Mordhiem... (Or how that tile stuff was good to add in for underside fights when you come across a cave enterance in Mordhiem... )

Dreadfleet? crap. Spacehulk? meh. Whatever they crap out next? I will more or less give them a look, call them crap and move on.

Because the more they halfass it, the more they fail and tick me off even more.

Now...

Ask me how I really feel.

I want all the people who've called me a mindless "hater" over the years to take it back right now.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I want all the people who've called me a mindless "hater" over the years to take it back right now.

And there we go. More snide remarks from the guy buttering his bread from writing 40k FF RPG stuff.

Seriously?

My issues are right there, If you'd like to go ahead and tell me how mindless that is, thats fine, but the issues will still be there. Game was fun, NOW the company is more interested in dick moves then gaming. Maybe I missed some of them, but there in a nutshell.

Other then that, I should post something sarcasticly witty, while at the same time try to degrade you.

Sorry, I just can't come up with anything like that. The issues I threw down on the table tick me off, about that much.